Rifle Scopes How much does magnification matter for ELR?

[garandman]

Building a 338NM for 1 mile and under shooting.

I've settled on the Leup Mark 4 w/ TMR reticle.

I'm just wondering how much difference 25x vs. 20x would make in "reaching out." Its makes about $300 difference in out of pocket to me.

Any help appreciated.

 

[Dogtown]

Available elevation trumps magnification in ELR shooting. In fact, one of the most common mistakes people make is they think they need 25x or more magnification, so they get these 8-32x or 10-42x scopes, which are usually designed for benchrest matches, only to discover that they don't have the elevation to get as far as they want and the FOV is so tight that they can't get back on target easily. 25x is plenty for a mile and beyond that the target is often so small that it can actually be easier to make shots by backing down on the magnification. Your eye will naturally try to center the target in the center of the cross hair and when you're too magnified you'll be dancing all over the target. At a reasonable magnification you can more steadily align the two for center mass shots.

 

[garandman]

I should ask a better question -

Can I "get away with" the 20x? I've got a 20X on my 6.5CM, and I want to have the same scope across platforms.

 

[Dogtown]

Sure, though it really depends how far you want to shoot. By most definitions ELR is 1400 yards and beyond and I think you'll find there's not a huge difference between 20x and 25x. You'll notice the difference more at 2000 yards than 1400. Something I didn't mention is a good canted base - that can help get you enough elevation too.

 

[bodywerks]

So long as it has the elevation to get you there, yes. Unless conditions are perfect, too much zoom can do more harm than good, for reasons mentioned already, and also due to mirage.

 

[garandman]

My builder is telling me the Leup MK4 @ 20x with 20 MoA base is enuf to reach.

 

[bodywerks]

It's going to take 55-60 MOA to get you there, maybe more depending on density altitude and mv. That's pushing the limit for most 30mm tubed scopes. I believe my mk4 only has 70 MOA total travel. A 20 MOA base would be pushing it especially if it's not a true 20 MOA (i have a warne that came out to be only about 15 MOA).

 

[Grizzdude]

I should ask a better question -

Can I "get away with" the 20x? I've got a 20X on my 6.5CM, and I want to have the same scope across platforms.

I use a NF NXS with 22x and I can clearly see torso targets 2000 yards and beyond.

 

[garandman]

It's going to take 55-60 MOA to get you there, maybe more depending on density altitude and mv. That's pushing the limit for most 30mm tubed scopes. I believe my mk4 only has 70 MOA total travel. A 20 MOA base would be pushing it especially if it's not a true 20 MOA (i have a warne that came out to be only about 15 MOA).

Builder said a base that tall, I wouldn't be able to sight in at 100 - 300 yds. This builder is well known and does quality stuff.

 

[bogeybrown]

I used a Leupold Mark 4 3.5x10 to go out to a mile (unsuccessfully). I could see the target, but on my 18" .308 I was out of elevation and holding another 10mils or so. I was having to use that hash mark halfway down the duplex in a TMR reticle and still couldn't see impacts so I gave up on it. With it being SFP I could have dialed back on magnification to gain some usable reticle, but dialing back from 10x at a mile wasn't an appealing option.
The next closest targets, which were dictated by terrain, were just beyond 1200yds and the only issue I had was that I could hit the targets, but had to get someone else with a higher power scope to confirm that the steel was in fact swinging because at 10x I just couldn't tell.
On that range the guys with the 21x Bushnells had no problems at all.

 

[Burton]

it can actually be easier to make shots by backing down on the magnification. Your eye will naturally try to center the target in the center of the cross hair and when you're too magnified you'll be dancing all over the target. At a reasonable magnification you can more steadily align the two for center mass shots.

Agreed. I prefer lower magnification, but to each his own. I generally have never had much use for a rifle scope with magnification more than 15x. Generally I would rather deal with a lower magnification optic, with higher optical clarity and higher light transmission than a really high magnification optic that is slightly grainy, darker, narrower FOV, and other issues associated with higher magnification.

But it is generally a preference thing. Best bet is to get behind a few optics if you can, and put some rounds downrange and see what works best for you.

Good luck!

 

[bodywerks]

Builder said a base that tall, I wouldn't be able to sight in at 100 - 300 yds. This builder is well known and does quality stuff.

A base how tall? Everyone and their sister runs at least a 20moa base( OK, almost everyone). I never suggested anything taller than that. Although a 30moa base would probably help.
But if your builder knows what it takes then listen to him...

 

[phreakmode]

3.5-10x40 MK4 only has 65 moa internal travel, some LRT and ERT models have more(slightly, 70 MOA).

I have a non Leupold 5-25 optic on my 338, it rarely sees use above 20 power. The mirage on a 110 degree Az day this time of year makes for some serious issues at high magnification. With a 40 moa base, I have roughly 90 MOA usable UP turret elevation.

The MK4s can be and certainly are used, but they are lacking on several fronts.

 

[Ring]

get a scope with 100+ moa, NF, SWFA, Razor...

on my 260, its 24 mils to 1 mile, i can dile 31, and still hold over 9 on the ret.

i use it on a 20moa base, with a 20 moa mount...40moa total, and can still zero @ 100y

 

[Night Eagle]

I think on a 338 u won't be zeroing at 100 yrds. U should prob be zeroing at 400-500 yrds so being able to see a 100 yrd target is kind of irrelevant.

 

[sib1948]

Agree you definitely need the elevation, but magnification also depends on your age and how crappy your eyes are!!!

 

[garandman]

I think on a 338 u won't be zeroing at 100 yrds. U should prob be zeroing at 400-500 yrds so being able to see a 100 yrd target is kind of irrelevant.

I always zero (i.e. make sure I am "on paper") at 100 before getting to my final zero, which likely will be 500 yds.

 

[garandman]

A base how tall? Everyone and their sister runs at least a 20moa base( OK, almost everyone). I never suggested anything taller than that. Although a 30moa base would probably help.
But if your builder knows what it takes then listen to him...

My bad. I misread your post. I'm gonna research the internal adjustment on the MK4 and make sure it can get there.