Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

_shawn_ · Oct 21, 2012

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

so anybody have any results with the 4831sc an 208's? also interested in data for the 215 berger hybrids

cyberpuppy42 · Oct 21, 2012

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _shawn_</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so anybody have any results with the 4831sc an 208's? also interested in data for the 215 berger hybrids </div></div>

I'm working up a load for that right now. Will let you know once I get a chance to get to the range.

_shawn_ · Oct 21, 2012

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

awesome can't wait to hear how it goes

armorpl8chikn · Oct 21, 2012

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: takkkatik</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sooooooooo.......what IS the magic load that will push a 190grainer do 2900?!?! I am intrigued.
</div></div>

My magic formula is now 55.5gr H4350 with BR-2 primer, Lapua brass, and 190SMK. 2880fps from 27" Krieger, that is from confirmed dope using drop at 300,600 and 1000.

Here is the rifle and some early tests:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...329#Post2775329

cyberpuppy42 · Nov 4, 2012

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

Just got back from the range. Ran an OCW on m 208's with 4831sc. OAL was 3.375", which put the seating about .020" off the lands using Winchester brass. Took it up to 60.3 gr with no significant signs of pressure - some minor primer flattening and minor cratering. Got a good OCW node right around 58.2 gr, then again at the higher end right at 60.0 gr. Will try adjusting the seating depth at both of those to see which one does better.

Unfortunately the indoor range I used has fluorescents, so my chrono didn't work. The heavy loads felt sporty, so I'm guessing I was up around 2700. I'll have to check velocity at the outdoor range when I get a chance to go out there.

Sharpsman · Nov 4, 2012

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

Here's mine:

'061000 by Sharps45 2 7/8, on Flickr

UglyBastid by Sharps45 2 7/8, on Flickr

Call it the 'Ugly Bastid'! Tain't purty....but it shoots mighty fine using 200 gr. SMK and the Hornady 195 VLD. Photo depicts a group I shot recently with it from 1000 yds. Kinda hard even thinking about going through life without the ole '06!

dorton · Nov 4, 2012

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

I have very recently dipped my toes into the bolt action world. J.boyette on here talked me into going the 30-06 route based on its versatility as a hunting round, and viability as a long range round. I'm looking forward to absorbing info from this thread.

Subscribed

jasin1890 · Mar 9, 2013

mrhog said:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbateman™</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I think 1 in 10 is what a lot of the guys are using?

</div></div>
Thanks.......... Ant idea what rem. uses in their factory barrles?

The Remington 700 sps Varmint has a 1:12 twist in .308 I think all rem 30 cal barrels are 1:12

GhostFace · Jul 30, 2013

I wish you guys would share some of that sage wisdom on the '06 since the old threads can't be read again. I should be getting my custom stick in about a month or so and I have a few pounds of RL22 and 1k of 190 CC and a box of 210SMKs. I have a 22.5 Rock M24 barrel because Shane hinted the 22.5 was the optimum length for the '06. I was looking for an OCW target weight using the 190s but so far I haven't found any info here or on google....

jekyl · Jul 30, 2013

Here is a link to the Rifleman's Journal which has a three part article on the .30-06. I found it an interesting read. The author talks about his reload options in part 2.
The Rifleman's Journal: Cartridges: Accuracy Secrets of the .30-06 - Part 1

MontanaMarine · Jul 30, 2013

I went to 22.5" making mine 24" even with the Badger Ordnance Thruster. I was looking to get a little better balance and trim a little length form the original 26.5".

Honestly though, I believe the 30-06 has enough powder volume to make it a good choice from 20" out to 30", just depending on what kind of rifle you want to end up with.

Right now I have two 30-06s. My 16 lb heavy precision rig with the 22.5" #7 contour Douglas bbl, and a 7.5 lb 20" sporter. Both Rem 700s.

JGorski · Jul 30, 2013

jasin1890 said:
The Remington 700 sps Varmint has a 1:12 twist in .308 I think all rem 30 cal barrels are 1:12

Their Sporter barrels are 10 twist, though.

18Echo · Jul 30, 2013

What non-temp sensitive powder can be used to launch the 190s at the 2900fps neighborhood? I'm putting one together with a 26" bartlein 1-10 and a PT&G Serengeti reamer is on order.

MontanaMarine · Jul 30, 2013

I was pushing moly'd 190 SMKs to 2920 fps via Norma brass, 62gr RL22, and a 26.5" bbl.

RL22 does drop speed with temp though. I think all powders do to some degree.

18Echo · Jul 30, 2013

MontanaMarine said:
I was pushing moly'd 190 SMKs to 2920 fps via Norma brass, 62gr RL22, and a 26.5" bbl.

RL22 does drop speed with temp though. I think all powders do to some degree.

Since you're up in Montana, how many fps did you see drop from summer loads to shooting in the dead of winter? Or do you guys stay inside during the winter like we here in the Phoenix Metro area do in the summer?

Additionally, the going rumor on the interwebs is that Norma brass is soft and pushing hard loads will loosen the primer pockets, did you find this to be true or internet rumor mill?

Based off of your experiment and the looks of Sharpsman's new .30-06 I'm putting together a 30-06 rig. I have it all in my possession or on order with BAT and McMillan.

armorpl8chikn · Jul 30, 2013

18Echo said:
What non-temp sensitive powder can be used to launch the 190s at the 2900fps neighborhood? I'm putting one together with a 26" bartlein 1-10 and a PT&G Serengeti reamer is on order.

I use H4350 exclusively. There is no difference in my load from summer to winter. 2880fps but my barrel is a fast one. The interesting story is the fact that my smith ordered 2 #18 barrels at the same time, from the same production run, basically we have sister barrels. He built his into a 300WM, and is getting 2900 from the 230 Berger. Now guys tell us both quite often we are both liars. They tell me their 300WM won't do that and they telll him their 300RUM won't do that. Your barrel may ultimately be the limiting factor, there are fast ones and slow ones. My load is quite safe in my rifle, round margins on primers and clean round firing pin strikes. No ejector marks.
I know a lot of guys use Re22. I used it enough in 1000yd BR to know that it does not shoot the same year round, You have to chase your load through the seasons.

MontanaMarine · Jul 30, 2013

18Echo said:
Since you're up in Montana, how many fps did you see drop from summer loads to shooting in the dead of winter? Or do you guys stay inside during the winter like we here in the Phoenix Metro area do in the summer?

Additionally, the going rumor on the interwebs is that Norma brass is soft and pushing hard loads will loosen the primer pockets, did you find this to be true or internet rumor mill?

Based off of your experiment and the looks of Sharpsman's new .30-06 I'm putting together a 30-06 rig. I have it all in my possession or on order with BAT and McMillan.

With RL22, I lost about 100 fps from 80F to -20F (ammo and rifle left outside overnight for a true cold test in the morning)....roughly 1 fps per degree. I don't go shooting generally when it's that cold out, but if it's above zero and wind not bad, I shoot in the winter. RL17 seems to lose speed at a similar rate, but I've not clocked it at -20F. But from 80F to 40F it lost about 40 fps.

I haven't found any problems with the Norma I have used. I only bought 100 pieces, but it's probably got 30+ reloads using a necksizing die. I keep expecting necks to start cracking. I've never annealed it.

phillipjr · Jul 30, 2013

Tag. Very interesting thread. It makes me want a 06.

GhostFace · Jul 30, 2013

phillipjr said:
Tag. Very interesting thread. It makes me want a 06.

Exactly why I ended up with one, after reading this thread and a few others....

phillipjr · Jul 30, 2013

GhostFace said:
Exactly why I ended up with one, after reading this thread and a few others....

I'm looking into it now. Seems to me there is A LOT of potential with the cartridge. To me it has always been a hunting cartridge not necessarily a long range one. But why not? A 190 SMK at 2900??? Who wouldn't want one!

armorpl8chikn · Jul 31, 2013

phillipjr said:
I'm looking into it now. Seems to me there is A LOT of potential with the cartridge. To me it has always been a hunting cartridge not necessarily a long range one. But why not? A 190 SMK at 2900??? Who wouldn't want one!

Caint' nobody guarantee your build will make those numbers brother. Mine does, and evidently a few others. Some make it easier than others, mine makes it easy and is not hard on the brass. It is most definately a long range cartridge. Mine has reached a mile, and frankly I consider that to be way beyond what is practical. It will make 1300 pretty damn easy. My action started life as a gift from me to my father for his 55th birthday, it was originally 30-06. He was retiring and planned to finally do some deer hunting with me. We had about 7 good seasons together before congestive heart failure reduced him to a fraction of the man he was.It was never fired when it didn't put meat on the ground, and that ain't just gunshop bullshit. When he passed in '98 the old '06 sat in the safe unused for 11 years. My good friend and smith at Apache Machine and Custom was tasked with making it into a tactical rifle, but with one catch, it has to be a 30-06, Daddy wouldn't have it any other way. Steve was a bit aprehensive about the choice of 06 at first. I referenced all of German Salazar's work with the 06 and he was sold. He ordered a Serengetti reamer and the rest as they say is history.

Greg Langelius * · Jul 31, 2013

I know this is an '06 topic and I don't want to pull a hijack. I just want to commend the current direction it is taking and mention how it's given me somewhat of a spin-off that has brought me some pleasure.

After seeing the results that astute handloading provided using heavier bullets, I recognized seriously significant achievement, but also understood that some frailties of my own would preclude my following in such a direction. Nothing wrong with the direction, rather my own recoil tolerance was at question.

So, instead of going with heaver bullets, I started looking into skinnier ones. Really, going much skinnier than .30 did not appeal to my intentions, so I landed on the .280 Rem/7mm Rem Express. I think it allows similar accomplishments with lighter bullets and a bit less recoil, maybe a tad more overall efficiency; while still allowing the use of factory barrels, brass, and an affordable handloading strategy.

This is no the place to follow up on this subject, but I did want to just give some thanks for motivating me in a slightly divergent but still pretty satisfying direction.

Greg

65guys_steve · Jul 31, 2013

Stumbled on this thread with interest as a fellow 30-06 shooter. I've got a trued Remi 700 with a Krieger 26" Heavy Varmint contour 1:12 twist that I use to push 175 SMKs out at 2940 FPS. I'm pretty happy with her, but didn't even conceive of pushing heavy / high BC bullets when I had it rebarreled. When I want to shoot super long I break out my 338LM.

Curious to get your guys' thoughts as to what would be the upper practical limits to stabilize heavier bullets with my 1:12 twist barrel (could I go up to 220s?)

Hunt4life · Jul 31, 2013

As far as stabilizing, you really just need to shoot some bullets in the grains you would like to try. Twist is definitely a concern but I think the bullet manufacturers are conservatively tight with twist recommendations.

MontanaMarine · Jul 31, 2013

My 30-06s are 10 twist, but, I shoot the 208 AMax all the time in my 1/12 308 Win's. Velocity around 2575-2625 between the two 308s. I've shot the 210 Berger, 215 Berger, and 220 SMK in the 1/12 308s with good accuracy too, at speeds of 2500-2600 fps.

Long way of saying your 1/12 30-06 will most likely shoot the heavies just fine, as it can add some speed to what the 308 is capable of.

GhostFace · Jul 31, 2013

Shane and anyone else pushing the 190s, what is your COAL? I sent three dummy rounds to my smith so he can cut the chamber. I couldn't find any 208 AMAXs but I did buy a box of 210 SMKs, I loaded them with a OAL of 3.400 and that's what I sent him. I just want the flexibility of being able to use the heavies but more than likely will shoot the 190s 90% of the time. I don't know how long I should load the 190s out to after may chamber is cut for the longer 210 SMK....

GLB · Jul 31, 2013

I just recently had a 3006 build on a M70 rifle that I had for over 20 years. I am still working on the 190 grn loads. For now I am shooting 175 smk with H4831 at about 2740 fps with a 1-10 Bartlin barrel. This is a accurate load but not full potential of the 3006.

MontanaMarine · Jul 31, 2013

GhostFace, When I was shooting the 190's I was loading them to kiss the lands. In the then new chamber that was right at 3.34" oal.

MontanaMarine · Jul 31, 2013

Tactical Hunter, Nice looking rifle!

clemens · Aug 1, 2013

Hope this thread continues. I have a mod70 that needs help and have been debating on what build I want to do. I have thought of .280, 280AI, .300wsm, .30-06AI. Yet keep coming back to the .06. Like to build a medium to long range hunting/target rifle, good over all starter rifle for long range shooting in general. I have a .308 and .22-250. Going to have to do some serious thinking and start asking questions. Thanks to all of you who have served.

GLB · Aug 2, 2013

In my mind the M70 and 3006 just go together.

jekyl · Aug 2, 2013

Where is a good place to pick up a Pre-64 style M70 action only? New or old production. Right now I am having an 06 built with the stiller TAC-300, lilja barrel and manners stock. I would also like one built with the old M70 style action which is why I am asking.

TXLEO · Aug 2, 2013

Glad I found this. I am learning a lot with my .308 but I also have a Savage 110 -06, pre acutrigger, that I want to build up eventually. lots of good info here

peaceatwar · Aug 2, 2013

Funny this thread got brought back from the dead, I have been looking at refurb 1903s for Vintage Sniper

Smooth_87 · Aug 3, 2013

Great thread, the 30-06 is too often overlooked these days

cypriss32 · Sep 24, 2013

Anyone hope in board with a new build?

Burleyboy · Sep 24, 2013

I love my 30-06's. I have many bolt action sporter rifles but the 30-06 has gone with me in my last few elk hunts and it worked both times. A few things I like about them are, great barrel life, easy to find ammo for in a pinch, magazine capacity in a sporter, they feed great, pleanty of room to seat bullets out in a rem long action and pleanty of neck, runs at speeds that most bullets perform well at, easy to load for, lots of bullet choices.

Robert Synder is putting a new Brux 10 twist sporter on on of my rem actions right now for me. If I get it back by Oct. 15th I might use it to fill my moose tag. I'm tempted to see how 208 amax's will work on something big.

Bb

broylz · Sep 24, 2013

I actually just had a PM conversation with Montana Marine over loads. I look forward to messing with this soon but I will say that I have a bum shoulder so until my rifle becomes a 24" M24 Bartlein with a fat bastard brake in a M24 stock, I wont be shooting the fast heavies. the box of 180gr core lokts are as much as I can tolerate at the moment and just a few at a time...

I read somewhere that the M24 was supposedly meant to be a 30-06 originally which would explain the long action aspect. after reading through some of this and seeing some good stuff coming from the Nosler Accubond Long Range bullets, I plan on building a M24 style rifle, minus the iron sight capability, and shooting 190gr NALR bullets...

MrMarty51 · Sep 24, 2013

I sent My pre-64 Featherweight to Alaska with My son, about five years ago, Boy do I miss that kickin O~L Mule. LOL
That rifle belonged to his Grandfather, I rebuilt His pickup engine for Him. He asked how much I wanted for the work, I told Him $150.00 and that I wanted to buy a rifle, He reached into his gun closet and handed Me His .06, asked if that would do and that He was not going to do any more hunting, well, Yeah, I loved that rifle and after a LOT of shooting got so I could withstand the recoil.
My son told Me He put a recoil pad on it and that really tamed it down, I was like HUH, that would remove the fun of shooting that old beast.
I have a pretty nice Garand and a 1917 enfield. The wifeys Uncle passed on last July, He left me His 700 Rem. that I`ll be picking up this weekend over in Bozeangelas, OOOPs, I mean Bozeman. I`ll postum up some pics. when I get back on Sunday.
This Rem is as new condition, I`m not sure what age this rifle is, but I`m guessing it is before barcodes was invented.
I did load the Uncle up some rounds for the Rem. on 150 grain softpoints but I do`nt remember what powder I used in them.
This thread has got Me all excited into getting back into shooting the .06s
Thank You for posting this thread.
How about the 1917 enfield, I have`nt checked it out, were these a 1/12 twist ??? Has the original mil. barrel, also has a two stage trigger, was that the norm. for these rifles ???
Thank You
Martin
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Frank Green · Sep 24, 2013

MrMarty51 said:
 I sent My pre-64 Featherweight to Alaska with My son, about five years ago, Boy do I miss that kickin O~L Mule. LOL
That rifle belonged to his Grandfather, I rebuilt His pickup engine for Him. He asked how much I wanted for the work, I told Him $150.00 and that I wanted to buy a rifle, He reached into his gun closet and handed Me His .06, asked if that would do and that He was not going to do any more hunting, well, Yeah, I loved that rifle and after a LOT of shooting got so I could withstand the recoil.
My son told Me He put a recoil pad on it and that really tamed it down, I was like HUH, that would remove the fun of shooting that old beast.
I have a pretty nice Garand and a 1917 enfield. The wifeys Uncle passed on last July, He left me His 700 Rem. that I`ll be picking up this weekend over in Bozeangelas, OOOPs, I mean Bozeman. I`ll postum up some pics. when I get back on Sunday.
This Rem is as new condition, I`m not sure what age this rifle is, but I`m guessing it is before barcodes was invented.
I did load the Uncle up some rounds for the Rem. on 150 grain softpoints but I do`nt remember what powder I used in them.
This thread has got Me all excited into getting back into shooting the .06s
Thank You for posting this thread.
How about the 1917 enfield, I have`nt checked it out, were these a 1/12 twist ??? Has the original mil. barrel, also has a two stage trigger, was that the norm. for these rifles ???
Thank You
Martin

The 1917 Enfields have a 1-10 twist also. Take a look down the bore. Some of you will know and some will not. You will see that they have a left hand twist and conventional 5 groove rifling.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

SporterII · Sep 24, 2013

I have a 700 sporter in '06. 24" 10 twist. It is sitting in a B.C. m-40 stock and waiting for bottom metal and inletting for final assembly.
It is light for sure. Question is will a sporter weight shoot to distance on targets of paper and metal with patience between rounds?
I ask because it is a temptation, To load and shoot in this configuration, looks like a rifle to me but I have no experience with any lighter than Remington Varmint profile.

broylz · Sep 25, 2013

im sure it would do fine. lots of lightweight long range rigs out there for hunting and such. just might have to keep it to a slow 3 shot group vs a 5 or 10 round grouping like the heavy bench guns.

I don't mind the old girl right now I just found out the hard way that I cant lay in there and bang them out like I could with a 14lb .308...

sgtusmc_nc · Nov 27, 2013

I would just like to say this is one of my fav threads. I own (1) 06, it was bought for me by my grandma for my 16th bday. its a winchester mod 70. and ive loaded 165's up to 200 accubonds. the rifle is a legit MOA rifle its never been sub and probably never will. but it shoots whatever I load for it well enough to put anything i shoot at on the ground. that said my 3 hunting locations only reach out to 500.I love the 06 i think its the best overall cartridge. ive loaded 125 grainers and let my boys shoot it, with low recoil. thanks for all the info guys you have sparked me to build a tactical 06 next.

Ridgerunner665 · Nov 27, 2013

Here's mine...

I don't plan on using anything over 190 grains, may never get over 180...most of my shooting is done with Nosler 168 Ballistic Tips at a modest 2,850 fps...accurate, easy, and it works for my uses (deer hunting)

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

buckey · Nov 27, 2013

Having a 30-06 hunting rifle built right now with following specs:

Bighorn SR2 action w/ Murphy Precision 10 MOA base installed
Bartlein barrel = #3 contour, 1-11" twist, 24" finished length
Vais micro-brake installed
McMillan Rem Hunter stock
Badger M4 bottom metal
Rem mag box, spring, & follower
Jewell trigger
Schmidt & Bender Klassik 3-12x42 with P3 mil-dot reticle installed
Seekins rings

DRAGON64 · Dec 6, 2013

This thread and the thread in the reloading section renewed my research for a .30-06 build... in haste I went ahead and purchased 500 pieces of 1X fired HXP brass from the CMP forum, so I will be ready to work on some loads. Ridgerunner665, that is a nice looking rifle you have there...

Ridgerunner665 · Dec 6, 2013

DRAGON64 said:
This thread and the thread in the reloading section renewed my research for a .30-06 build... in haste I went ahead and purchased 500 pieces of 1X fired HXP brass from the CMP forum, so I will be ready to work on some loads. Ridgerunner665, that is a nice looking rifle you have there...

Thank You Sir...

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

MrMarty51 · Dec 6, 2013

Supposedly, I will be receiving a Rem. 700, 30-06, day after Christmas when I make a journey over to Bozangelas{Bozeman} and the wifeys cousin is suppose to hand it off to Me. It was their Dads, but, they lived there, I lived here and was always going for drives here and there, into the prairies and hills, shooting P.Dogs and such. he and I had some might fine talks and times.
Old Gene passed on, after the funeral, Both of His daughters pulled Me aside, said they were giving Me Dads rifle and shotgun, well, when they left, the firearms went along with them, the one daughters husband had it figgered out if He could get to Boz with them firearms, He`d have a pretty good chance of unloading them without His wifey a knowing, well, it backfired, but, He is now going to keep the shotgun and I`ll get the rifle. Seems He told Her that He was going to taking an interest in shooting, HA, never happen, He`s not a hunter, never has been, has no innerest in gettin his hands bloody an such.
Old Gene considered Me the son He never had, and that is how We got along, just great.
Time`ll tell.

bowfishn · Dec 13, 2013

I have always preferred the 30-06 ever since I hunted with a Springfield Model 1903 when I was 13. For a lot of years now I have only hunted with a Handgun, but a few years ago my Father gave me his Sako Finnbear 30-06 that he purchased in the spring of 1964 . I have finally got around to working up loads for it with 165 gr Nosler ballistic tip bullets. Using Lapua Brass , CCI BR2 primers and H205 Powder (yes I scored an 8 lb box of unopened H205)
Fire formed brass with 60.5 gr of H205 gives me less than 1/2" 5 shot groups at 100 yards. That load gives 3100 fps out of the 24" 1-10 barrel. The bullet is a good Deer load but is not recommended for larger game, I decided on the Nosler 190 gr Accu-Bond Long Range Bullet for larger game.
According to the Handloader Issue #43 - May, 1973 that lists loads for Sako Finnbear rifles using Norma 205 getting 2930 fps out of 61 grains with a 180 grain bullet and 2816 fps with 60 grains and a 200 grain bullet. My hopes were getting around the 2850 to 2860 with the 190 grain bullet. Of coarse N205 powder is no longer available, I purchased some Norma MRP and I also have the H205 to work with. I was doubtful of the H205 getting the vel. but was hopeful of the Norma MRP. While searching for loads I found the info listed By USSR and MontanaMarine using Alliant powders like RL22
I will work up loads in the spring using the 3 powders H205, Norma MRP and RL22 . I'll see what gives me the best groups with the highest vel.
Thanks for all the info
Shane from Vermont

ArmyJerry · Dec 13, 2013

Hard time finding winbrass in 3006 right now, have 300 cases on hand but still would like a bit more, might have to break open the piggy bank and get some Lapua. I have a Savage 110 on the way back from Larry Racine, had him rechamber a 300 wimag 28" bull barrel by CBI, ended up 26" nominal, was going to start developing long range 300 WM but components are too hard to source and I got a 300 WSM instead so had the gun converted to the 06 after reading some Articles by German. I just like the 3006 as it was my very first Cal I ever shot and have been shooting since in a variety of hunting rifles for almost 40 yers now. Will post up some pics when I get it in hand. Thanks for the info and thread gents.

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Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

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