so far i have contacted
SAC
Dave Tooley
kampfeldcustom
they need to be familiar with Ai's, due to the bolt hardness
SAC
Dave Tooley
kampfeldcustom
they need to be familiar with Ai's, due to the bolt hardness
Last edited:
Gunsmithing need a gunsmith to bushing a firing pin hole on a Accuracy International, suggestions?
- Thread starter Ring
- Start date
Just called him, he can't work on AI's due to the bolt hardness
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
Called gap as well and they can't do it
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
No one that I know will do it. Tooley was going to experiment with an extra bolt head he had last time I talked to him about it. If you do find someone that can do it please post back in here. I would love to run a 6.5x47 on one.
Did you try Chad Dixon at Long Rifles Inc? He may be able to help or know somebody who can.
I'd be interested in who you find as well
sent from RAZR Maxx HD using Tapatalk Pro
sent from RAZR Maxx HD using Tapatalk Pro
Wow well you just might be screwed then lol. Sounds like all the big shops can't do it which kinda surprises me a little. Good luck my friend. Sounds like you are going to need it.
Alan Warner
Warner Tool Company, Inc.
201 Old Homestead Hwy.
N. Swanzey, NH
03431
(603) 352-9521
Warner Tool Company, Inc.
201 Old Homestead Hwy.
N. Swanzey, NH
03431
(603) 352-9521
I'm impressed that the big names understood the issues and were upfront thant they couldn't do it. Eventually you'll find someone who says they can, probably without any prior successes, and I wonder what happens when it doesn't work out.
Why isn't this rifle on its way back to the manufacturer for service? AI's service has a great reputation, and the design is full of features that support rapid and easy repair (such as the separate bolt head).
Also, I don't get this talk of bolt "hardness". Very few gun parts will resist carbide tooling...
Also, I don't get this talk of bolt "hardness". Very few gun parts will resist carbide tooling...
im wondering the same thing. This hardly seems something that AI wouldn't make right?
The bolt is case hardened and in AI eyes, there's nothing wrong with the bolt it is as it's designed to..
To function as a combat gun with a large firing pin hole needed to do what it does
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
To function as a combat gun with a large firing pin hole needed to do what it does
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
The guns are shipped as 308 and modified and rebarreled in the States two other calibers and the other calibers mostly the 260 is the one that causes this issue
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
this must be a new issue, I have owned/still own an AW, AE and AX all in 260 and have never had any issues with my bolt.
not a new issue, just a random one, happens with all 3 guns..
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-reloading/141446-ai-ax260-pierced-primer.html
https://www.google.com/#q=ai+ae+aw+ax+pierced+primers&safe=off
To call it piercing is somewhat misleading because the assumption may be that the firing pin is doing the piercing. What is actually happening is that the primer cup is being pressured into the firing pin hole after ignition and the primer cup material only has so much stretch before the plug breaks off.
Last edited:
Tooley can do it, he said he has already done them, just no time right now..
since it is the end of my shooting season till spring i may see if he can do it later
since it is the end of my shooting season till spring i may see if he can do it later
well that sucks, I hope you get it fixed
what primers are you running?
I was thinking someone could have one made especially if the ai is built to a loose but consistent tolerance.
It was Remington... Switched to CCI
That Helped, but still not perfect..
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
Excuse my ignorance but what is involved in bushing a firing pin hole and what is the purpose of doing it? I have an AI AE MK II and have a .260 barrel on the way so I curious. Thanks.
The FP hole is designed on the large side to be reliable with 762 NATO primers in crappy conditions...
To problem is if your running loads on the higher side the psi can force the primer out that hole
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
To problem is if your running loads on the higher side the psi can force the primer out that hole
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
Last edited:
Bushing it is boring it out, threading in a plug with a smaller fitted hole to better seal it
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
have you tried calling mile high or AI directly
yes.. he mentioned Dave Tooley, but i told him after speaking to Dave, that Dave is no longer doing this mod.
MH said they would contact AI direct to see if they had any info...
Threading is overkill if you are talking about the face of the bolt.
Bore a pocket and press a bushing into the bolt face, its captured and not going anywhere.
I had problems with primer flow on my .50 and I bushed the firing pin down without issues. My bolt is A-2 tool steel around 49 Rc and it cut easy with a carbide boring bar.
My bushing was made from hardened A2 steel as well.
Just how hard is an AI bolt ?????
If anyone has any issues with an AI product it is always a good idea to call us and we will assist. If we do not get a call and you try to find a gunsmith to do the work then you are doing it at your own risk. We do not sell spare bolt heads, only bolt bodies with the bolt head attached. This is for safety reasons as we are assembling these every week and do not provide anyone with the ability to do it themselves as they would only do it maybe once in their lifetime. It is not worth the risk as this is a critical safety item. We do not bush bolt heads either but we do provide assistance when someone who has one of our products needs it. Again, it is necessary to call our facility in Fredericksburg, VA, telephone 540-368-3108.
Tom Irwin
Accuracy International
Tom Irwin
Accuracy International
It can be done. I know a guy who had one done by a friend of his who is a well respected gunsmith. He had no problems doing it.
Per Tom's suggestion I reached out to AINA and they were indeed helpful. Per their direction, I reduced my loads to the point that the primer piercing stopped. Unfortunately, I can only push a 139 Scenar at 2,670 fps. Anything faster and I start piercing primers - and I've tried three different lots of CCI primers which are considered the toughest. I'm told by AI that I might have carbon buildup so I cleaned my barrel thoroughly. I'm told by the AI distributor that I have copper buildup so I used Sweet's 7.62 until there was no more blue. I'm still piercing primers. I just got some Montana Extreme Copper Killer per the recommendation of the AI distributor and will give that a try. I'm about ready to buy a bore scope to see if there is indeed anything I am missing.
I love my AIAW and want it to work, but l have to make some tough decisions if I cannot get it to shoot a .260 at competitive velocities. By competitive, I'm talking a 139 Scenar at 2,800 fps from a 26" barrel with suppressor. I'm talking 42gr of H4350 - just above the 41.5gr starting load in the Hodgdon manual. I'm using Lapua .260 brass and CCI 200 or BR2 primers.
Since AI made the decision to offer a number of 6.5mm chamberings from the factory, I would expect them to come up with a plan to address the primer piercing issue. I would even be willing to pay for a factory bolt with a reduced firing pin aperture.
I have been told by one of the AI distributors that there is a gunsmith in the U.S. who will modify the bolt and I am awaiting contact information which I will share. I doubt I will go that course for obvious reasons but others might. Most likely I will sell my rifle and build up something on a Defiance action to shoot .260 if I can't get a resolution. If all I wanted to do was shoot .308 I would look no further than the AIAW - I honestly believe it's one of the finest rifles on the market. However, when you venture away from the .308 AI does not appear to be the best option unless you are content to shoot reduced loads.
With Shot Show coming up, I hope that AI will make an announcement along with their new products.
Edit: I just called up CCI and they told me that the cups on BR2 primers are thicker than the CCI200 primers. He said CCI200 use "standard cup" and BR2 uses "thick cup" like the magnum and military primers. He told me that the thickness difference is in the "10 thousands" range which he insists would make a noticeable difference. Many of you have seen the primer cup thickness chart circulating around the internet (http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php) and the CCI tech I spoke with said the measurements for CCI primers are incorrect. He was not at liberty to share the actual measurements, just that the chart was incorrect.
I am now going to revisit my 42gr load with BR2 primers to see if I have better luck. I have had cratering with BR2 primers in my .308 loads (43gr Varget with 175 SMK) but never a piercing. Please, please, please let this solve my problem.
Update: I tried BR2 primers with my 42gr load and I'm still getting primer piercing. This is very frustrating.
Last edited:
Stupid question but are you bumping the shoulder back too far on the .260?
Moving the shoulder back too far will give the same result.
Moving the shoulder back too far will give the same result.
There are no stupid questions, although I have been accused of the occasional stupid answer....
I have been using virgin Lapua brass. When using fired brass, I only push the shoulders back approx .002. The net result is still .002 - .003 longer than virgin brass as measured by an RCBS case micrometer. So no, I do not believe headspace is an issue and I've experienced the piercings with both virgin and once fired brass.
Last edited:
Shoulders shouldn't be a problem then.
Another extra stupid question... Weak firing pin spring?
The firing pin spring on an AI rifle could double as a suspension spring on most automobiles. It's a new rifle so I'm pretty confident that is not an issue.
The primers could be an area to explore. I found this thread and have used the small rifle magnum with success.
Russian Primers
Russian Primers
The toughest LR primers I've ever used are Wolf (Tula) LRMs. Some guys shy away from them because they don't want to use a magnum primer, but the Russians evidently have a different take on what magnum means - their magnum primers use the same pellet of priming compound as standard primers, but have a thicker cup.
The downside to using large magnum Russian primers is - in my experience - the occasional FTF. All the LR HP guys have always told me you gotta seat 'em hard against the bottom of the primer pocket to get consistent ignition, but I've had more FTFs from crushing the pellet while seating than I've ever had from not using enough force to seat. I use a RCBS Ram-prime tool in a RCBS Partner press, which gives very good 'feel' for seating to the bottom of the pocket, but which also makes it easy (if you're not careful) to crush the priming pellet.
Oddly enough, I've never had any issue with FTFs while using Russian SRMs - which I use exclusively in a DPMS AR10 I built in 6.5x47. They're the only SR primer I've found that will give decent accuracy & velocity w/o piercing in this rifle, which has a 28" Krieger bbl. Some DPMS AR10 bolts have pretty sloppy firing pin hole dimensions - if I could find someone who knows how to bush these firing pin holes, it'd make life easier when trying to get reasonable velocity out of these rifles.
The downside to using large magnum Russian primers is - in my experience - the occasional FTF. All the LR HP guys have always told me you gotta seat 'em hard against the bottom of the primer pocket to get consistent ignition, but I've had more FTFs from crushing the pellet while seating than I've ever had from not using enough force to seat. I use a RCBS Ram-prime tool in a RCBS Partner press, which gives very good 'feel' for seating to the bottom of the pocket, but which also makes it easy (if you're not careful) to crush the priming pellet.
Oddly enough, I've never had any issue with FTFs while using Russian SRMs - which I use exclusively in a DPMS AR10 I built in 6.5x47. They're the only SR primer I've found that will give decent accuracy & velocity w/o piercing in this rifle, which has a 28" Krieger bbl. Some DPMS AR10 bolts have pretty sloppy firing pin hole dimensions - if I could find someone who knows how to bush these firing pin holes, it'd make life easier when trying to get reasonable velocity out of these rifles.
That shouldn't be an issue then. As others said it might be worth it to run some wolf magnum primers. I switched to wolf mangums in my .223 ackley and that solved my problems. Still shot great.
That is on my To Do list. With the popularity of high pressure cartridges such as the 6.5x47, I see an opening for a primer manufacturer to come out with a purpose designed thick cup / hard cup primer. They could use a more sensitive priming compound to elminate FTF situations. Baring a new design, they could do a better job directing users to the most appropriate product.
update on mine, switched to CCI mag's, problem solved..
to get the same accuracy, i needed to drop the load by .4gr
no issues with varget and 123's
AIAE 260
140gr Hornady BTHP
42gr H4350
CCI MAG primer
2720FPS
COL 2.8
to get the same accuracy, i needed to drop the load by .4gr
no issues with varget and 123's
AIAE 260
140gr Hornady BTHP
42gr H4350
CCI MAG primer
2720FPS
COL 2.8
Pretty sure that the military primers are what you are describing (with regards to thicker/harder cups).
Thanks for the update.
If these bolts are truly that hard, I'd find a local machine shop with a sinker EDM and have them edm a straight pocket. It would then be a simple matter to machine a press or shrink fit plug with the proper size hole, chamfered in the back and fit it in the bolt face. Turn it flush and your done other than turning/grinding down the firing pin diameter. I would think putting the 'insert' in liquid nitrogen then installing would work well for a shrink (swell) fit. Just a thought!
MSALM hit it right on the head. You wouldn't need a gunsmith to do this any shop with a wire and a sinker edm could do this no matter the hardness. I am a machinist myself here in Nebraska and what you are trying to get done wouldn't be that hard at all with the equipment stated.
PaulB.
Everyone put your fingers in your ears. It's about to loud if done that way.
To the OP:
You contacted me some time ago (right around the conception of this thread if I recall) and I declined the job.
Well, I've changed my mind. (mainly because I read how half the planet wants to overcomplicate this to the point of it being absurd.
Send your rifle and I'll bush the hole. If I screw it up, I'll buy the new bolt head.
Chad
You contacted me some time ago (right around the conception of this thread if I recall) and I declined the job.
Well, I've changed my mind. (mainly because I read how half the planet wants to overcomplicate this to the point of it being absurd.
Send your rifle and I'll bush the hole. If I screw it up, I'll buy the new bolt head.
Chad
Similar threads
