• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Either a brilliant idea or a full retard idea. Which one is it?

7magsavage

7magsavage

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 9, 2012
429
123
47
I have to say that the least favorite part of annealing for me is emptying the water out or the cases and letting them dry. Would it be possible to drop the brass in rubbing alcohol (something that would evaporate quicker) without causing any issues? I don't think the brass would be hot enough to ignite the alcohol.
Just trying to figure out a way to keep all that water out of there.
Also, another positive attribute for alcohol would be the lack of surface tension. The alcohol should just roll right out as opposed to what I do now which is just shake the hell out of each individual case to get the bulk of the water out. Then the cases have to sit over night and I still get water leaking on my shell holder with some cases.

If I've went full retard, just say so.
Steve
 
MtnCreek said:
No need for water or alcohol (unless it's a glass of Woodford Reserve).
Click to expand...

Do you just air dry?
If so, do you worry about heat traveling too far down the body?
Also, does the brass not need to be quenched (quickly cooled) to be properly annealed?
 
3lcd.jpg
 
No need to quench.

And once you remove the torch, the heat stops migrating as the hot part is cooling QUICKLY.
 
A common practice for blade smiths is to quench worked blades in a solution of 70% alcohol and 30% water so my guess is that it will work. I don't know your process or the amount of brass you anneal but if you pluck the quenched case from the bucket of water soon after dunking it, the heat from the still warm case evaporates the water very quickly. If you let them remain in the water as they fully cool then it takes them much longer to air dry.
 
I use this to get the water out. Works like a charm. The centrifugal force of the spinning get the water out of the flash holes very easily.
 
I wish I could find the link, and will if I locate it. But manufactures don’t quench why should we? The link in question just has the cases moving down the line through flame on a conveyer like fashion and dropping in a bin on the other end. I think it was Winchester or Lake City. I have annealed a couple thousand without quenching and never had a problem. If you wet clean your brass this would be a good way to dry them... while you are annealing.
 
I have helped build annealers (induction 5.56) for Lake City Army Ammunition plant. They don't quench the 5.56, 7.62 or the .50 cal. The 5.56 and the 7.62 are induction annealed the Fifty is done one sixty year old flame annealers. Talk about a hot place to work in the summer.

No need for you to anneal either.
 
No need for you to anneal either.[/QUOTE]

If annealing is unnecessary and is of no proven value, ie longer lasting, 'better' brass, or something else, then why is anyone doing it?
Is there any tested and proven facts on this process that provide a definitive answer as to it's benefits or is it of the same type argument as moly coating bullets or cryogenically treating barrels?
 
If brass was a metal that responded to quenching (like carbon steel), then quenching is the opposite of what you would do to anneal it.
Steel is annealed by heating to its transformation range then cooling slowly, for instance, by turning off the furnace and letting it cool down inside the furnace (which cools slower than the same object in free air).

Brass does not respond to quenching at all. As long as the brass is heated to the proper temperature, it is annealed regardless of how quickly it is cooled. The purpose of dropping the hot cases in water is to prevent the heat from conducting to the case head.

I don't know how you are annealing your cases, but if just enough heat is introduced to the neck of a bottleneck case to raise the temperature to 750° quickly (in 10 seconds or less), it should not conduct enough heat to anneal the brass much below the shoulder.

Joe
 
Last edited:
Isopropyl alcohol vapor is denser than air and is flammable with a combustible range between 2 and 12.7% in air. It should be kept away from heat and open flame. Isopropyl alcohol has also been reported to form peroxides, which may explode upon concentration
 
I anneal every time and let air cool. If you must drop in liquid, use water first, then drain, then dump in denatured alky, Iso, whatever, then drain back into original can. The brass will dry much much faster this way.
I do this after sizing & trimming, prior to priming.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
 
Annealing DOES make a difference provided you are loading the same brass 4-6 times after it was new. You can physically feel a difference in the brass's response when seating a bullet and also see a target free of unexplainable fliers.
 
Brass is not the same as steel/iron. They are almost opposites in they way they work. Iron is work softened and needs to be heat treated to make it hard (brittle) and brass is work hardened (brittle) and needs to be heat treated (annealed) to make it soft. Quenching brass is not the same as quenching steel. You only need to quench brass to keep the temp from travelling down the body, which if the body gets too hot is really an issue with the person doing the annealing since they have something out of whack in their process. Done correctly there is no need to quench brass when annealing
 
EXTREMEPREJUDICE said:
A common practice for blade smiths is to quench worked blades in a solution of 70% alcohol and 30% water so my guess is that it will work. I don't know your process or the amount of brass you anneal but if you pluck the quenched case from the bucket of water soon after dunking it, the heat from the still warm case evaporates the water very quickly. If you let them remain in the water as they fully cool then it takes them much longer to air dry.
Click to expand...

Brass blades?

STEEL is tempered and annealed to the final state of hardness versus flexibility/toughness.

With STEEL, tempering is quenched in various things, depending on how hard you want the steel to end up. Then you anneal, which for steel is a very slow cooling procedure.

Brass doesn't react like steel does. Heat to the desired annealing temp, and then let cool, any way you want, and you end up with pretty much the same level of softness.

In the cases of copper, steel, silver, and brass, this process is performed by heating the material (generally until glowing) for a while and then slowly letting it cool to room temperature in still air. Copper, silver[1] and brass can be cooled slowly in air, or quickly by quenching in water, unlike ferrous metals, such as steel, which must be cooled slowly to anneal. In this fashion, the metal is softened and prepared for further work—such as shaping, stamping, or forming.
Click to expand...
 
2ndamendfan said:
Brass is not the same as steel/iron. They are almost opposites in they way they work. Iron is work softened and needs to be heat treated to make it hard (brittle) and brass is work hardened (brittle) and needs to be heat treated (annealed) to make it soft. Quenching brass is not the same as quenching steel. You only need to quench brass to keep the temp from travelling down the body, which if the body gets too hot is really an issue with the person doing the annealing since they have something out of whack in their process. Done correctly there is no need to quench brass when annealing
Click to expand...

Bold text is patently false.
 
Old brass can be thrown in the garbage. New brass, like Lapua, that doesn't need a heavy application of physics and chemistry, can be purchased.
 
I wet tumble with stainless steel media and have a quick way to dry the cases, the only problem is you have to buy your wife a new hair dryer.

Below, a five gallon bucket, a yardstick, a hair dryer, and the brass is dry in 10 minutes.
(cheap bastards convection oven)

hairdryer_zps427528d6.jpg


Very good link below.

The Art and Science of Annealing
Annealing Basics, Cartridge Metallurgy, and Automated Options

The Art and Science of Annealing within AccurateShooter.com
 
Last edited:
Pinecone said:
Brass blades?

STEEL is tempered and annealed to the final state of hardness versus flexibility/toughness.

With STEEL, tempering is quenched in various things, depending on how hard you want the steel to end up. Then you anneal, which for steel is a very slow cooling procedure.

Brass doesn't react like steel does. Heat to the desired annealing temp, and then let cool, any way you want, and you end up with pretty much the same level of softness.
Click to expand...
Annealing and tempering are separate processes. No amount of heating and cooling of brass will result in tempering. The OP wanted to know is he could use alcohol to quench (for whatever reason) and he can, I'm just suggesting he can and could mix with water if he's concerned about ignition. Also, if he plucks them out readily they will dry quickly. If you want to convince him not to quench, march on...............
 
jolofree said:
No need for you to anneal either.
Click to expand...

If annealing is unnecessary and is of no proven value, ie longer lasting, 'better' brass, or something else, then why is anyone doing it?
Is there any tested and proven facts on this process that provide a definitive answer as to it's benefits or is it of the same type argument as moly coating bullets or cryogenically treating barrels?[/QUOTE]

Belay my last.... meant no need to quench either....
 
Last edited:
ATK runs Lake City and they didn't change how Remington before them treated the brass after it was annealed. They fall off of the end of the conveyor into a 4x4x4 steel crate and wait for the next process. So i would say that is a slow drop to ambient temperature due to heat and mass....

Sorry for saying "no anneal needed", I brain farted when typing... no quenching, no quenching needed.
 
Niles Coyote said:
Annealing DOES make a difference provided you are loading the same brass 4-6 times after it was new. You can physically feel a difference in the brass's response when seating a bullet and also see a target free of unexplainable fliers.
Click to expand...

Yep ^^^
 
Yup. As NC said, annealing obviously makes brittle brass malleable again.

No need for "quenching" in liquid with brass.

That is all.
 
Graham said:
Old brass can be thrown in the garbage. New brass, like Lapua, that doesn't need a heavy application of physics and chemistry, can be purchased.
Click to expand...

Hey Graham...........looking at my stockpiles of new Lapua brass that you told me to buy after throwing out all of the old stuff.............it looks like every case has some heat tint where they (Lapua) annealed the neck/shoulder.



Have you noticed that?
 
Either a brilliant idea or a full retard idea. Which one is it?

Diablo said:
Hey Graham...........looking at my stockpiles of new Lapua brass that you told me to buy after throwing out all of the old stuff.............it looks like every case has some heat tint where they (Lapua) annealed the neck/shoulder. Have you noticed that?
Click to expand...
Yup: Its the eighth wonder of the world.

That's why I buy good brass and get rid of it when it isn't good anymore: I'm not in the brass-making business.
 
I use a Bench Source annealer, no water needed. I also use Tempilaq on the neck to make sure its right. when I ultrasonic it I either use compessed
air, Or, set it in over the heat register in the winter, dash of your car in the sun in the summer. still takes a bit.
 
I take all my brass to a sweat lodge and have twelve New Age couples cast spells over it. Then I box it up, label it as religious artifacts and send it to the Vatican where a friend of mine. who happens to be a minor priest, quenches it in holy water.
 
We call it "underwear" when little boys wear it. Nunn is a strange name for a boy don't you think?
 
Quenching in water isn't necessary, but does have the welcome side effect of softening the carbon in the primer pockets. I pull the brass out of the bucket and blast them with comressed air (120 psi). If the carbon has built up in the primer pockets, the compressed air will dislodge the bulk of it. I don't use an ultrasonic or stainless media, so it works out well for me.
 
Either a brilliant idea or a full retard idea. Which one is it?

my human host said:
Quenching in water isn't necessary, but does have the welcome side effect of softening the carbon in the primer pockets. I pull the brass out of the bucket and blast them with comressed air (120 psi). If the carbon has built up in the primer pockets, the compressed air will dislodge the bulk of it. I don't use an ultrasonic or stainless media, so it works out well for me.
Click to expand...
Blow gently into the primer pockets. It will make the brass stand erect on the table.
 
Graham said:
I take all my brass to a sweat lodge and have twelve New Age couples cast spells over it. Then I box it up, label it as religious artifacts and send it to the Vatican where a friend of mine. who happens to be a minor priest, quenches it in holy water.
Click to expand...

Damn, I got that part wrong, too.........thought it was 12 Aged couples. No wonder the old folks thought I wuz crazy
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

N
Another Useless Cartridge Idea
Replies
91
Views
3K
Cascade Hemi
C
K
New 6 Creed problems with PETERSON brass
Replies
104
Views
2K
kyotekiller25
K
Cole440
Brainstorming 6.5 CM Load Improvements
Replies
26
Views
1K
Bbracken667
Bbracken667
A
Effing Redding dies
Replies
119
Views
4K
smoothy8500
smoothy8500
S
Why you should get Triebel dies AND their shell holder
Replies
1
Views
1K
918v
918v
Top Bottom
Back