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Blackwater founder wrote a book/interview

I believe

I guarantee you the last thing I am my friend is a traitor.

I believe you. The thing is... the question is... are you learning anything? The 101st was in transit, and having serious discussions amongst themselves as to whether or not they would follow those same orders. They never had to come to their decisions. But I think we know what that would have been. We are all on untested ground here. Katrina, I hope, cleared these questions up for many. I hope...
 
So DS6

Katrina

Lets say you came to my front door and told me to "evacuate" and I in turn told you to eat a dick? What happens then? I'm serious, eat a dick. And I'm holding an AR in my hands just like you. What then?

What if you see me walking down the street with my pack on minding my own business? You can see my holster peeking out under my shirt. What then? What if there are 5 of us?
 
So DS6

Katrina

Lets say you came to my front door and told me to "evacuate" and I in turn told you to eat a dick? What happens then? I'm serious, eat a dick. And I'm holding an AR in my hands just like you. What then?

What if you see me walking down the street with my pack on minding my own business? You can see my holster peeking out under my shirt. What then? What if there are 5 of us?
What if you were on planet Mars right now instead of making things up in your mom's basement, would you then be wearing a space suit?
 
Some simply do not get it no matter what - genepool i guess...

It matters not if you got MOH, dressed in Superman suit or your ladies panties, when conditions are right you WILL be in position to infringe on people right as any government has absolutely every tendency to do so (politicians&co actually but lets use word government for it, it can be local sheriff, local governor or the person with biggest gun, basically anyone in position of power) when it suits them. Evil people are not rare or not found in only one social class, they are everywhere and of all traits and colors and for vast majority of them only circumstances are such that their true nature remains either hidden or dormant. What enables them to infringe on others in the end is your (everyones) cooperation and willingness to do so. There are myriad people out there each with its own limit and viewpoint. For some its natural that to restore order some things can and must be sacrificed and someones limit will definitely differ from for example mine. But history teaches us that with liberties and "god given rights" there can only be 0 or 1 because as soon as you start talking shades of grey, grey is what you get and sooner or later either by manipulation or by being accustomed to, limit (normal human response of adaptation) lowers and has a tendency to gravitate towards zero.
Why? Because 0 is easy and 1 is superhard. 1 takes sacrifice, blood, sweat and tears while 0 takes nothing.

PS: You may type from your mommas basement of from your fathers couch, you can be Rambo XIX or mall ninja in the end all that counts are actions and its a sad state of affairs when in general those who are not Rambos make more sense or write more inline with whats right than those whom that right should be as natural as getting up in the morning. Sheepdogs (as some like to call themselves) have apparently gotten the taste of sheep's blood in their mouth and they seem to like it (not to mention that dogs are closer relatives with wolves than with sheep).
 
I bet he never trampled anyones civil and natural born rights from inside the basement.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
 
I think the lesson here is that given a particular situation and enough encouraging words from the government, even the good guys can be duped into firearm confiscation and Martial Law. We're completely fucked. Prepare accordingly.
 
When looking at the larger picture.... I can see DS6 had a hard job, but it needed to be done.

What would everyone here that is bitching be saying if NOTHNG was done? These people were allowed to stay in their homes, with nobody there? Nobody trying to get commo back up, water, utilities? Everyone would be up in arms about that. Sometimes people have to do a shitty job to accomplish a greater goal. Look at all the looting, crime, murder, rapes, everything going on at the time. Then you were in a unit that was told to go into that area and help.....what would be the first thing you would want to do?

At a time when martial law is started you are no longer in the US of A. This is typically never used as it is a last option for help, as in the worst of the worst, making a 3rd world country look better. Emotions are high, tentions are high, and people are amped up and at that breaking point.


While in Iraq I was able to see a few of these guys and had a chance to talk to a few of them. All great guys and very down to earth, just like anyone else you would meet.


I did watch the interview that the head guy did a while back. And I think the best thing about the interview is that he asked about the term "merc". Simple answer..... he asked the interviewer what he thought that was......someone who is paid to fight someone elses fight, correct? And isn't that what a us military person is? We join the "job"...we get on the job training, we go to other countries and help fight their fight. So what is the difference?

DS6, forget what people say here. Because man you had a tough job, in an even shittier situation. Glad you are ok, and are able to discuss this here.
 
Another proof that some people simply do not get it (and never will and hence all discussion on this subject is pointless). This liberty business is simply physical you either have brain wired to understand it or you don't. No middle way as in i know what freedom is but....

You either do and support fully (and you can instantly smell a wanna be dictator) or you pretend to and think you do when in fact you do not.



PS:Some appear to have images of monsters in place of nazis or various other "nice" people from history when in fact those men/women were no special or different from anyone else. They had kids, they loved their kids, sang songs and danced and did pretty much everything others do. But when time and conditions were right they also did things that made them stay in history books. Make no mistake about it, your nicest neighbor who helps out and speaks of nothing but love and freedom could be when things come inline (aka get to power) be such "nice" person. Power corrupts saying does not mean that power itself corrupts but that mans character is revealed once he/she gets to power and trust me there are more sick puppies out there now then there were anytime in known history - should make for some serious book and movie material in the next couple of hundreds of years (if we survive and remain at current tech level to be able to print books and produce movies).

PPS: I'm out as it will only get uglier and uglier until we're either banned or thread locked.
 
So DS6

Katrina

Lets say you came to my front door and told me to "evacuate" and I in turn told you to eat a dick? What happens then? I'm serious, eat a dick. And I'm holding an AR in my hands just like you. What then?

What if you see me walking down the street with my pack on minding my own business? You can see my holster peeking out under my shirt. What then? What if there are 5 of us?

Seems as how you are hell bent on stirring the pot then let me elaborate on the last page and a half as yuo obviously did not read everything that I have wrote. None of use wanted to disarm anyone. Do you know what Posse Comitatus is?? if not, then I suggest you read up on it. It was temorarly suspended therefore martial law was invoked. Now as for your condesending question.......thankfully I never had to make that decision and I hope I would never have to.

We all talk about the "what if's" when it comes to gun control and confiscation. I am all about Molon Labe, I'm a huge supporter of 2nd amendment rights. I don't consider myself a badass but I do know my way around an assault rifle. If the role was reversed and I lived in New Orleans during Katrina and a platoon full of soldiers showed up at my door demanding my guns and I'm with my wife and 2 little kids........I'm sorry to say but i'm probably going to fork them over. There is no way I'm about to make my wife a widow and my kids orphans. I have no issues with standing my ground but if your the only one standing, well......
 
The Nisour Square shootings in Baghdad will forever taint Blackwater... probably the new version ACADEMI as well. Even though none of the original founders of Blackwater are involved in the new company. Many will be skeptical about merc's, private contractors, or whatever you want to call them. Because the chain of command and training of a regular armed force is not a given with a private company.

IMO they are here to stay and with the right oversight should be able to do most of the jobs for which they are contracted with. OVERSIGHT being the relevant consideration.

I disagree with the notion that guns for hire will all be cowboys per the Nisour event. There have been many more cases where they were hung out to dry by those who either hired them or benefit from their actions and work.

Which of course doesn't give them any free passes. AND yeah I probably will read the book.
 
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so, evidently nobody watched the video I posted above huh? I don't see or hear anyone bitching about all them National Guardsman and Police that were told to use "intimidating persuasion" but because I spoke up and said I worked for Blackwater all of a sudden I'm the lowest piece of shit on earth.

When I put the word "evacuate" like that in quotations that is because that is exactly what we were asked to help with by the Army. That's what we were told we were doing...evacuating people out of a dangerous are after a national catastrophy. We "Evacuated" one neighborhood, we didn't go in and asked them to give us all their guns, we didn't give a flying fuck who had guns as long as they were not shooting at us or shooting innocent people in front of us. We knocked on doors politely and told the people that they were evacuating the area. Again as I said above, the only time we took guns from anyone it was outside a building where we were working in from a couple of people that in all honesty looked like a bunch of gangbangers. We told them the police doesn't want anyone walking around with firearms. So, I guess maybe I am guilty of profiling....so be it. And when I say "WE" I mean the group that I was with, I can't speak for the entire company and i'm sure there was possibly some Blackwater contractors somewhere down there fucking something up.

There was a fucking national crisis going on and with all the murders and violent crimes going on maybe we didn't stop and think about things like this, but I guess at the time they were tying to stop ALL the crime.

People act like everyone that works for Blackwater are a bunch of shoot to thrill fast flying wanna shoot a motherfucker kind of people. that is far from the truth. 90% of them were all ex-military and the rest are ex law enforcement. When We were in Iraq, there were countless times we got a call to come to the aid of a military unit, and we did...without hesitation. The military often came to our aid as well.

It may be hard to understand what i'm getting at as it's often hard to understand the context of things written, but everyone is jumping down my throat like i'm the devil so no matter what I say, they're still gonna hate.

I'm going to stand by my original comment in that 90% of the media and people have no real idea what Blackwater actually judge, they don't here about the good, only the bad.

Again, sorry this thread turned away from it's purpose and became a flame war. That's all i'm gonna say.

i got no problems with blackwater or any other contractor. played that game a little when i got out in 98. what we (better read I) have problems with is the willingness to disarm americans for a paycheck. As far as the national guard and police go, I have the same feelings about them do it. It just so happens that you brought your BW affiliation into it. Had you said you were local PD we would have bitched about that too. The threads in here can get wicked regardless of background. In short, if you feel good about what you did then we cant change that. But we can sure tell you how we feel about it. Either stop reading the responses or suck it up buttercup.
 
I was banned for less than this...
seems like liberal arguing with conservative topics...
Darkside, you know what is right and wrong and the armchair argument, based on what people heard on the TV and not relying on personal account, will always feel righteous in witch-hunting among General Issue Sheepdogs vs. Privately Supplied Sheepdogs. It's what sheep do. You're not on trial here, kudos for taking it so well. I would have gone fetal and cried until someone came and coddled me.
 
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i got no problems with blackwater or any other contractor. played that game a little when i got out in 98. what we (better read I) have problems with is the willingness to disarm americans for a paycheck. As far as the national guard and police go, I have the same feelings about them do it. It just so happens that you brought your BW affiliation into it. Had you said you were local PD we would have bitched about that too. The threads in here can get wicked regardless of background. In short, if you feel good about what you did then we cant change that. But we can sure tell you how we feel about it. Either stop reading the responses or suck it up buttercup.



That is where you're wrong. I didn't have any willingness or desire too. That is why this whole thread got out of hand, people jump in the shit without reading every post and then start flaming. As someone said above, I wan't kicking in old ladies doors and throwing people out in the street and grabbing up all their guns.
 
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That is where you're wrong. I didn't have any willingness or desire too. That is why this whole thread got out of hand, people jump in the shit without reading every post and then start flaming. As someone said above, I wan't kicking in old ladies doors and throwing people out in the street and grabbing up all their guns.

I understand you sont see it that way, im sure it was a tough thing to do. But you did it. If you werent willin git wouldnt have happened, at least by you. It seems that you regret it now after some thought and that means you are at least rational and thinking man. I have no problems with you, per se, but the actions themselves.
 
DS6 - can you go through in DETAIL how you and your crew were authorized to act as law enforcement and disarm your fellow citizens?

At the onset, and by both your account and the video - BW had no contract, empirically - no authority either.

Please tell us what happened from there - were you individually sworn in by the local sheriff? Were you ever given an authorizing document on agency letterhead outlining your specific duties and limitations? Do you still have this? Or was is all word of mouth?
 
Just thought this guy knew what he was talking about

“Violence can only be concealed by a lie, and the lie can only be maintained by violence. Any man who has once proclaimed violence as his method is inevitably forced to take the lie as his principle.”
Alexander Solzhenitsyn quote

Same guy

"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? After all, you knew ahead of time that those bluecaps were out at night for no good purpose. And you could be sure ahead of time that you'd be cracking the skull of a cutthroat. Or what about the Black Maria sitting out there on the street with one lonely chauffeur—what if it had been driven off or its tires spiked? The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!"

His words not mine. He seems to be on to something.
 
Just thought this guy knew what he was talking about... His words not mine. He seems to be on to something.
His knowledge is from direct experience. And I do think he was 'on to something'. I even supported his move to Vermont. But times change, and occasionally people do as well. So when he became a religious zealot and an autocrat I was happy to see him return.
 
Perhaps, but was it for criticizing how this site is being run?

actually it was for an article that sounded like it was recent news, but it was really the events that lead up to the American Revolution! haha I'll PM it to ya if you want, actually a good read!

Darkside, don't go into detail about anything, especially on a public forum. No need to recount it, and they (me too I guess) don't rate to hear it. They didn't want it at the beginning of this when all they wanted to do was burn you with they overly dramatic opinions. You don't have to prove anything to anyone but your Creator.
 
His knowledge is from direct experience. And I do think he was 'on to something'. I even supported his move to Vermont. But times change, and occasionally people do as well. So when he became a religious zealot and an autocrat I was happy to see him return.

Cant say he was wrong about US culture pushing the lowest common denominator to the top. He had the 60's counter culture nailed.

Agree with you that his feeling the state should have ended or limited these "expressions" was wrong and misunderstands the principle/freedom of "self policing society" rather than real "authoritarian policing". Odd he experienced enough of the latter. Apparently even with his history he was able to to some extent become what he hated.
 
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I think the lesson here is that given a particular situation and enough encouraging words from the government, even the good guys can be duped into firearm confiscation and Martial Law. We're completely fucked. Prepare accordingly.


This guy gets it. Great post
 
actually it was for an article that sounded like it was recent news, but it was really the events that lead up to the American Revolution! haha I'll PM it to ya if you want, actually a good read!

Darkside, don't go into detail about anything, especially on a public forum. No need to recount it, and they (me too I guess) don't rate to hear it. They didn't want it at the beginning of this when all they wanted to do was burn you with they overly dramatic opinions. You don't have to prove anything to anyone but your Creator.

leaving his parents out of this he actually does have to answer - to himself, the people whose rights he violated and the whole idea of the Constitution.

That the Bill of Rights had to be articulated lest some nefarious future government should take the position that because they weren't then they aren't necessarily so was for just such a situation as this. How inconveniently clever and blessed with foresight were our Forefathers. Perhaps that fetal position you referenced earlier should be abandoned and instead try some introspection and free thinking on what events can mean beyond just the fog of the battle at hand. For your first assignment, try and read up on the conditions that George Washington INSISTED be the case in regards to the oversight of Congress (civilian) of the army he was offered to lead. To deny the role of the civilian in regards to the actions of the military (whether private or public) as employed ad deployed by the government (whether local, state or federal) is to fundamentally miss the point of what this country legislatively and politically is supposed to be.
 
. You don't have to prove anything to anyone but your Creator.


Stated another way - our republic demands that when government, or an agent of the gov seeks to deny rights that expressly outlined by the Constitution - you damn skippy it has to be explained to the governed.
 
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Honcho, apparently it doesn't have to be explained because none of you who think burning him at stake is a good idea, have never done anything about it. Typical American, wants to cry about something he has not much of a clue about, and then never act on it. Evil men should not be feared, but the indifference of good men right?

So then go ahead Honcho and Horizon....Use what you guys have seen on the TV and indict him! If you guys feel soooo strongly that you know what happened based on your lack of first hand knowledge or witnesses thereof, use your God given rights, and take him to federal court. Otherwise get off his back, this is a shooting forum, and specifically a marksman forum and a thread about a dude writing a book! You guys feel so empowered with your idea of a history that is not even along the same principals as what this even was about. IF that is the case put your work where your mouth is and lets get this witch hunt on for real!

Posse Comitatus was suspended during the Martial Law, why don't you jump on the govt for that over darkside? Oh, I get it, because he is here and he happened to open a can of worms with stating he was down there. You are all ready to crucify this guy and make him explain himself? lets get real, you all have the burden of proof on this one, not him.
But were 'merican and we want someone to pay with blood for something we don't know about.
This is a good part of why America is failing. Hope you all feel righteous if nothing else.
I would love to see what George Washington would have done with Katrina; at least back in his time there was a real sense of camaraderie between just Americans, even if you didn't know the guy. Now we have an entire city acting like a 3rd world country with absolutely NO order. Better yet, I would love to see you people try to manage anything remotely close to that! Incident Management is a difficult thing on a localized level, let alone on a city/state level.

His parents btw, are NOT the Creator I was referring to...
 
Actually kemosabe - if you scroll up I asked a series of questions that get to the heart of it all - they rolled into town w/ no contract - ie no authority. Then I asked about the details of how such authority was meted out. Expendable dudes on the ground aren't generally part of the deal team that argues over $, language, duties, limitations, and liabilities. So it becomes critical to understand if his authority was the result of word of mouth - ie the telephone game; or specific written orders that are valid by extension and verifiable for those whose rights are being infringed.
 
In Hesco's last quote, he is more accurate than he realizes.

The masses crucifying Darkside are the same people that play no role in American National Incident Command System. They are people that are never faced with who to help and who to pass. It is always easier to make unattached decisions.

As it sits, NICS is the standard by which MCIs are handled in the US. It is a system that's greatest shortfalls are effective communications (THANK YOU DARKSIDE), quality/timely information, and resources.

It has been decided at a Government level that the primary goal is to help AS MANY PEOPLE AS YOU CAN. Unfortunately, this means sacrificing the few for the many. Doing the most good. I word this two ways, as it bears repeating. It relates to much more than just a medical portion.

Those that choose to be oblivious to this fact have no bearing or use in an MCI at any level. As such, they can safely voice their opinions from the comfort of their homes, work, or Starbucks. Perhaps some day, these people will come up with a perfect system.
Until that time, there will be men and women that understand the principals of doing the most good. They will continue to do their besr, while being criticized Monday.
 
Let me translate for smokebomb:

"The masses crucifying Darkside are the same people that play no role in American National Incident Command System. They are people that are never faced with who to help and who to pass. It is always easier to make unattached decisions."

--that part means that you are all peons, know-nothing nobody's who cannot have an opinion unless you have sat in on the PowerPoint briefing with the organizational chart depicting the AMERICAN NATIONAL INCIDENT COMMAND SYSTEM. Had you been read in on this brief, you would realize that criticizing your governments actions and holding them accountable to their Constitutional limits sounds suspiciously citizen-like, and could be construed as a threat.

"It has been decided at a Government level that the primary goal is to help AS MANY PEOPLE AS YOU CAN. Unfortunately, this means sacrificing the few for the many. Doing the most good. I word this two ways, as it bears repeating. It relates to much more than just a medical portion. "

--this part means that anytime there is a crises, like bad weather, the Constitution no longer applies. Why? Don't ask, because it HAS BEEN DECIDED. Who has decided? THE GOVERNMENT LEVEL. This makes the decisions of any agency acronym from the aforementioned brief automatically legal, because IT HAS BEEN DECIDED. We sacrifice the few for the many, because communism was right all along but don't tell anyone because that part is secret/noforn.

"Those that choose to be oblivious to this fact have no bearing or use in an MCI at any level. As such, they can safely voice their opinions from the comfort of their homes, work, or Starbucks."

--this is the best part. If you disagree with the Borg, you are of no value to the state, and are oblivious to the fact that the states opinions are not opinions but fact. Our org chart from the PowerPoint briefing trumps the Constitution so if we want your guns we will take them. You are not worthy of criticizing us for this since we are doing you a favor by saving you from yourself and this is a dangerous job. Besides, your bill of rights does not have a Joint Liason to CINC American National Incident Command System so you don't get to play. Perhaps you can get funding for that FY2014.
 
let me translate for smokebomb:

"the masses crucifying darkside are the same people that play no role in american national incident command system. They are people that are never faced with who to help and who to pass. It is always easier to make unattached decisions."

--that part means that you are all peons, know-nothing nobody's who cannot have an opinion unless you have sat in on the powerpoint briefing with the organizational chart depicting the american national incident command system. Had you been read in on this brief, you would realize that criticizing your governments actions and holding them accountable to their constitutional limits sounds suspiciously citizen-like, and could be construed as a threat.

"it has been decided at a government level that the primary goal is to help as many people as you can. Unfortunately, this means sacrificing the few for the many. Doing the most good. I word this two ways, as it bears repeating. It relates to much more than just a medical portion. "

--this part means that anytime there is a crises, like bad weather, the constitution no longer applies. Why? Don't ask, because it has been decided. Who has decided? The government level. This makes the decisions of any agency acronym from the aforementioned brief automatically legal, because it has been decided. We sacrifice the few for the many, because communism was right all along but don't tell anyone because that part is secret/noforn.

"those that choose to be oblivious to this fact have no bearing or use in an mci at any level. As such, they can safely voice their opinions from the comfort of their homes, work, or starbucks."

--this is the best part. If you disagree with the borg, you are of no value to the state, and are oblivious to the fact that the states opinions are not opinions but fact. Our org chart from the powerpoint briefing trumps the constitution so if we want your guns we will take them. You are not worthy of criticizing us for this since we are doing you a favor by saving you from yourself and this is a dangerous job. Besides, your bill of rights does not have a joint liason to cinc american national incident command system so you don't get to play. Perhaps you can get funding for that fy2014.


cha-motherfucking-ching
 
Let me translate for smokebomb:

"The masses crucifying Darkside are the same people that play no role in American National Incident Command System. They are people that are never faced with who to help and who to pass. It is always easier to make unattached decisions."

--that part means that you are all peons, know-nothing nobody's who cannot have an opinion unless you have sat in on the PowerPoint briefing with the organizational chart depicting the AMERICAN NATIONAL INCIDENT COMMAND SYSTEM. Had you been read in on this brief, you would realize that criticizing your governments actions and holding them accountable to their Constitutional limits sounds suspiciously citizen-like, and could be construed as a threat.

"It has been decided at a Government level that the primary goal is to help AS MANY PEOPLE AS YOU CAN. Unfortunately, this means sacrificing the few for the many. Doing the most good. I word this two ways, as it bears repeating. It relates to much more than just a medical portion. "

--this part means that anytime there is a crises, like bad weather, the Constitution no longer applies. Why? Don't ask, because it HAS BEEN DECIDED. Who has decided? THE GOVERNMENT LEVEL. This makes the decisions of any agency acronym from the aforementioned brief automatically legal, because IT HAS BEEN DECIDED. We sacrifice the few for the many, because communism was right all along but don't tell anyone because that part is secret/noforn.

"Those that choose to be oblivious to this fact have no bearing or use in an MCI at any level. As such, they can safely voice their opinions from the comfort of their homes, work, or Starbucks."

--this is the best part. If you disagree with the Borg, you are of no value to the state, and are oblivious to the fact that the states opinions are not opinions but fact. Our org chart from the PowerPoint briefing trumps the Constitution so if we want your guns we will take them. You are not worthy of criticizing us for this since we are doing you a favor by saving you from yourself and this is a dangerous job. Besides, your bill of rights does not have a Joint Liason to CINC American National Incident Command System so you don't get to play. Perhaps you can get funding for that FY2014.


Hey there KYPatriot, apparently you haven't a clue how NIMS works. I tell you I do. Were you there for the West Liberty Tornado a few years back in YOUR State? I was, I got the pictures to prove it. Did I have constitutional authority to break into people's houses and look for people? NOPE. Did I do it? you bet you last hillbilly dollar I did. I was nearby when the tornado came over and I was one of the first couple hundred on site. What was the first thing raided? If you weren't there you probably don't know, so I will tell you. It was the PHARMACY. Was it constitutionally legal for police to not let anyone in, including the owners? NOPE. Did they do it for the greater good? Here's another, I was an EMT Basic FF level 2 certified for Ohio, was I allowed to give IVs and ET tubes per KY Law? NOPE! I could go on and on but surely most of this won't sink in anyway.
its a shame we can try to burn him on AUTHORITY when he didn't have a contract. I'll bet George Washington would have had a contract for sending his guys too had he dealt with this situation.

Apparently your signature should be re-worded. "The man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself, AS LONG AS THERE IS A CONTRACT GIVING HIM AUTHORITY."


Nobody is saying all ye are peons, just don't speak on what you don't know...
...unsat...
 
Hesco, I don't give a flying $&&! about contracts or titles. Get this through your skull: not you, or any other government agent ever has the legitimate authority to violate my Constitutional rights. No contract, no badge, no unit patch or circumstance will ever justify such violations. If you can't help me without confiscating my means of self defense then believe me you can't help me.

Your greater good argument is the same crap that has spewed from the mouth of every dictator in history to justify ever increasing government intervention and expansion until no individual liberty remains. It is the mortal enemy of a free nation. We fought a revolution to obtain individual liberty, not some bureaucrat's determination of the greater good, not safety, nor any other excuse to transfer power from the citizen to the government.

We have traveled from "give me liberty or give me death" to "here take my liberty just keep me safe" precisely because of attitudes like yours.
 
Hesco, I don't give a flying $&&! about contracts or titles. Get this through your skull: not you, or any other government agent ever has the legitimate authority to violate my Constitutional rights. No contract, no badge, no unit patch or circumstance will ever justify such violations. If you can't help me without confiscating my means of self defense then believe me you can't help me.

Your greater good argument is the same crap that has spewed from the mouth of every dictator in history to justify ever increasing government intervention and expansion until no individual liberty remains. It is the mortal enemy of a free nation. We fought a revolution to obtain individual liberty, not some bureaucrat's determination of the greater good, not safety, nor any other excuse to transfer power from the citizen to the government.

We have traveled from "give me liberty or give me death" to "here take my liberty just keep me safe" precisely because of attitudes like yours.


I truly hope hope that everyone will consider this statement with an open mind.

The the fact remains that even if you or your superior consider your actions to be for the better good, they may just be unconstitutional. Like it or not.
 
Honcho, apparently it doesn't have to be explained because none of you who think burning him at stake is a good idea, have never done anything about it. Typical American, wants to cry about something he has not much of a clue about, and then never act on it. Evil men should not be feared, but the indifference of good men right?

So then go ahead Honcho and Horizon....Use what you guys have seen on the TV and indict him! If you guys feel soooo strongly that you know what happened based on your lack of first hand knowledge or witnesses thereof, use your God given rights, and take him to federal court. Otherwise get off his back, this is a shooting forum, and specifically a marksman forum and a thread about a dude writing a book! You guys feel so empowered with your idea of a history that is not even along the same principals as what this even was about. IF that is the case put your work where your mouth is and lets get this witch hunt on for real!

Posse Comitatus was suspended during the Martial Law, why don't you jump on the govt for that over darkside? Oh, I get it, because he is here and he happened to open a can of worms with stating he was down there. You are all ready to crucify this guy and make him explain himself? lets get real, you all have the burden of proof on this one, not him.
But were 'merican and we want someone to pay with blood for something we don't know about.
This is a good part of why America is failing. Hope you all feel righteous if nothing else.
I would love to see what George Washington would have done with Katrina; at least back in his time there was a real sense of camaraderie between just Americans, even if you didn't know the guy. Now we have an entire city acting like a 3rd world country with absolutely NO order. Better yet, I would love to see you people try to manage anything remotely close to that! Incident Management is a difficult thing on a localized level, let alone on a city/state level.

His parents btw, are NOT the Creator I was referring to...

I'm not sure whether your argument is sinister or just a poorly constructed one with no awareness of just how circular it is.

You suggest that because we're ignorant of the facts we should just be quiet and grateful. We ask DS6, who freely stated he was there and described his involvement, of more facts - presumably with a view to expunge our ignorance for which you have such contempt. Upon us doing this you direct DS6 to divulge no further information while simultaneously continuing to deride us for being clueless and then state that only a deity can be aware of what DS6 knows first hand.

Your argument then devolves into a brilliant example of death by jargon but the jist of it being 'others have done the thinking for you' as though the bureaucratic machine is flawless, undeniable and 'resistance is futile' and any questioning by ignorant outsiders - or otherwise known as citizens (who you deny any chance of gaining insight) is the refuge of the ungrateful, entitled and lazy.

You also state that it was 'the higher ups' who came up with the whole plan anyway and so we should stop bashing the boots on the grounds (that did the kicking) and instead hire lawyers.

Well, the lawyers did get involved, the Supreme Court did in fact rule that much of the orders and actions of the bureaucrats and those who followed them were ILLEGAL and unConstitutional.

Of course, none of the members of the Supreme Court were in New Orleans so what could they possibly know about the matter? They, literally, were in armchairs when they made their deliberations.

It's upsetting that you at once take the view that all this is a personal assault on DS6 (it isn't), but then you are likening us, who are sceptical and critical of what has been deemed wrong and illegal by the highest court in the country, to what is wrong and the worst in this country.

Mate, I'll tell you this. It's far better for a bunch of fat, couch-potato know-nothings to be inquiring and criticizing than no-one giving a shit and at best hoping none of it interferes with the latest edition of TMZ because if that was truly the case, then what the holy fuck would you be fighting for if no-one barely notices anyway. Perhaps you should give at least a minimum acknowledgement to those who care about what's done, how and whether it's actually for the advancement of this country as opposed to the selfish ambitions of faceless men who give out these orders and who seem to avoid accountability and scrutiny with depressing regularity and ease.

I'd say this has run its course and on the whole I've found this thread very illuminating and it's great to see you back KYPatriot. Please stay awhile.
 
Hey there KYPatriot, apparently you haven't a clue how NIMS works. I tell you I do. Were you there for the West Liberty Tornado a few years back in YOUR State? I was, I got the pictures to prove it. Did I have constitutional authority to break into people's houses and look for people? NOPE. Did I do it? you bet you last hillbilly dollar I did. I was nearby when the tornado came over and I was one of the first couple hundred on site. What was the first thing raided? If you weren't there you probably don't know, so I will tell you. It was the PHARMACY. Was it constitutionally legal for police to not let anyone in, including the owners? NOPE. Did they do it for the greater good? Here's another, I was an EMT Basic FF level 2 certified for Ohio, was I allowed to give IVs and ET tubes per KY Law? NOPE! I could go on and on but surely most of this won't sink in anyway.
its a shame we can try to burn him on AUTHORITY when he didn't have a contract. I'll bet George Washington would have had a contract for sending his guys too had he dealt with this situation.

Apparently your signature should be re-worded. "The man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself, AS LONG AS THERE IS A CONTRACT GIVING HIM AUTHORITY."


Nobody is saying all ye are peons, just don't speak on what you don't know...
...unsat...

Hey DS6 and Hesco. You two, and your company man mentality ilk, make me want to vomit. While this forum is open to all, your an embarrassment to all those who fought for freedom, and you really don't belong here. Go post at the "Nazi Times" website. I don't know what you fought for but by your rap it wasn't for our freedoms. Money????? Or maybe the fat stuffed little turd of a man in the video with the NOPD cap on. I wonder if they promised to make him an an honorary man if he French kissed the big boys ass's deep enough. Is he the reason you were violating the constitution? Because the chief of popo in a second rate city told you to. Bwahahahahahaha.

Hesco, I don't give a flying $&&! about contracts or titles. Get this through your skull: not you, or any other government agent ever has the legitimate authority to violate my Constitutional rights. No contract, no badge, no unit patch or circumstance will ever justify such violations. If you can't help me without confiscating my means of self defense then believe me you can't help me.

Your greater good argument is the same crap that has spewed from the mouth of every dictator in history to justify ever increasing government intervention and expansion until no individual liberty remains. It is the mortal enemy of a free nation. We fought a revolution to obtain individual liberty, not some bureaucrat's determination of the greater good, not safety, nor any other excuse to transfer power from the citizen to the government.

We have traveled from "give me liberty or give me death" to "here take my liberty just keep me safe" precisely because of attitudes like yours.

Though we have had our words in the past, in this, KY speaks for me.

I'm not sure whether your argument is sinister or just a poorly constructed one with no awareness of just how circular it is.

You suggest that because we're ignorant of the facts we should just be quiet and grateful. We ask DS6, who freely stated he was there and described his involvement, of more facts - presumably with a view to expunge our ignorance for which you have such contempt. Upon us doing this you direct DS6 to divulge no further information while simultaneously continuing to deride us for being clueless and then state that only a deity can be aware of what DS6 knows first hand.

Your argument then devolves into a brilliant example of death by jargon but the jist of it being 'others have done the thinking for you' as though the bureaucratic machine is flawless, undeniable and 'resistance is futile' and any questioning by ignorant outsiders - or otherwise known as citizens (who you deny any chance of gaining insight) is the refuge of the ungrateful, entitled and lazy.

You also state that it was 'the higher ups' who came up with the whole plan anyway and so we should stop bashing the boots on the grounds (that did the kicking) and instead hire lawyers.

Well, the lawyers did get involved, the Supreme Court did in fact rule that much of the orders and actions of the bureaucrats and those who followed them were ILLEGAL and unConstitutional.

Of course, none of the members of the Supreme Court were in New Orleans so what could they possibly know about the matter? They, literally, were in armchairs when they made their deliberations.

It's upsetting that you at once take the view that all this is a personal assault on DS6 (it isn't), but then you are likening us, who are sceptical and critical of what has been deemed wrong and illegal by the highest court in the country, to what is wrong and the worst in this country.

Mate, I'll tell you this. It's far better for a bunch of fat, couch-potato know-nothings to be inquiring and criticizing than no-one giving a shit and at best hoping none of it interferes with the latest edition of TMZ because if that was truly the case, then what the holy fuck would you be fighting for if no-one barely notices anyway. Perhaps you should give at least a minimum acknowledgement to those who care about what's done, how and whether it's actually for the advancement of this country as opposed to the selfish ambitions of faceless men who give out these orders and who seem to avoid accountability and scrutiny with depressing regularity and ease.

I'd say this has run its course and on the whole I've found this thread very illuminating and it's great to see you back KYPatriot. Please stay awhile.

I agree.
 
Hey there KYPatriot, apparently you haven't a clue how NIMS works. I tell you I do. Were you there for the West Liberty Tornado a few years back in YOUR State? I was, I got the pictures to prove it. Did I have constitutional authority to break into people's houses and look for people? NOPE. Did I do it? you bet you last hillbilly dollar I did. I was nearby when the tornado came over and I was one of the first couple hundred on site. What was the first thing raided? If you weren't there you probably don't know, so I will tell you. It was the PHARMACY. Was it constitutionally legal for police to not let anyone in, including the owners? NOPE. Did they do it for the greater good? Here's another, I was an EMT Basic FF level 2 certified for Ohio, was I allowed to give IVs and ET tubes per KY Law? NOPE! I could go on and on but surely most of this won't sink in anyway.
its a shame we can try to burn him on AUTHORITY when he didn't have a contract. I'll bet George Washington would have had a contract for sending his guys too had he dealt with this situation.

Apparently your signature should be re-worded. "The man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself, AS LONG AS THERE IS A CONTRACT GIVING HIM AUTHORITY."


Nobody is saying all ye are peons, just don't speak on what you don't know...
...unsat...

Unsat, really? So basically you are saying the constitution is null and void whenever the government says it is. It really is amazing that you and only you have all this insight and we should just blindly follow what you say. There is NEVER any excuse for taking someone's firearms as long as they are law abiding citizens.
 
well,
aside from the ideas and words put into my mouth (I won't even entertain those), nobody must have anything to say about my last post which, I think clears up at least a little on this. The point I'm making is there are wide left and there are wide right people. Somewhere in the middle you have to wade thru the bull crap, thru the leftists, thru the right wingers and help the people in need. My statements were, (maybe I wasn't clear enough) people were judging DS6 about what thy heard on tv. With that logic, America is a great and prosperous place, blah blah blah. It was a little more than "inquiring" on here, y'all called him a traitor! Believe me I would not let anyone take my gun if I was capable of helping myself. But I tell you, at that point in a catastrophe, there is no black or white line. It sucks because you have the heart to help people and you go down there either because you enlisted or want to get paid, (no shame in that) people get paid to be executioners too, right? however you went down there, in order for anything to work you have to have a command structure. With that command structure, you have to have faith in the command what you are doing is right. I know the good you do can't outweigh your liberties and rights, but being the boots on the ground what are you supposed to do? If anyone can answer that for me right there, with a logical response that still completes the mission in a timely fashion, I'll shut up. But it is such a twisted problem that there really isn't a good answer. The mission was not to take the guns. The mission was not to take people out of their homes. The mission was to help the victims. I know intent only goes so far, but look at the bigger picture. We can criticize all day long, but producing a problem without a solution is useless. Everyone sees the elephant in the room. Is it wrong to take guns? ABSOLUTELY. is it wrong to get into peoples houses unauthorized? YES, that's grounds to kill you in my state. But that is in a NORMAL state of living. This situation was un-prepared for and nobody knew how to handle it. Maybe we can grow from this and create a system that can clear this up. Until then, what do we do? Don't you think that if everyone down there carried a gun like back in the colonial times, that maybe the national guard might not have had to do what they did, yes the BW guys too?

Did the govt make some terrible choices? YES can we learn from this? I HOPE SO
Do we need to blast DS6 for this? NO. Was this blasting specifically him? Despite what you all say, that's how I took it and that's how it seems still yet. "traitor", really?

What if they didn't go in, and we let people fend for themselves? Everyone would have cried that the govt. didn't do enough. And that, my friends, is another worm can factory.
What if they DID go in and let everyone keep their guns? That 'police action' would be about as effective as any other we have attempted and MORE people (BW, civilians, National Guard) would have died from the gangs and thugs and animals that were down there. And then the only people that lose are the good guys and their families, again. And then we say, if only there were better police action laws, (I hate to call them ROEs because this still is home turf, but I can't think of a term for it right now)

Horizon, in an everyday situation, I would agree with your 'someone else has done the thinking for you' argument, but not here. not at all. This is a multi-faceted issure and the dynamic was changing the entire time.
Your inquiring, if that is what it is then by all means, inquire. I agree it is better than doing nothing, but not near enough to matter. We, here on the Hide, I would like to presume are decently like-minded (on some things) enough to be considered a group. But saying these things on here accomplishes what? Criminalizing DS6 accomplishes what? Does it change anything up top, in the middle or down low? No. You want to voice, voice! but voice where it will matter and to who it will matter to in a manner that is effective.
 
jong, that sounds all well and good, man. But apparently you havn't been in those "no good answer" situations. and please you and faggot...or maggot please come up with a strategy that would have worked down there. I agree the system was broken, but you gotta do with what you are dealt. End of story. You all call him a traitor? you're sick! You can call me whatever and whoever, I know what I have done for this country and have lost, bled and cried enough for Her. But keep having this view, for everyday life, I AGREE WITH YOU.
This is like I'm arguing with a bunch of liberals...
 
jong, that sounds all well and good, man. But apparently you havn't been in those "no good answer" situations. and please you and faggot...or maggot please come up with a strategy that would have worked down there. I agree the system was broken, but you gotta do with what you are dealt. End of story. You all call him a traitor? you're sick! You can call me whatever and whoever, I know what I have done for this country and have lost, bled and cried enough for Her. But keep having this view, for everyday life, I AGREE WITH YOU.
This is like I'm arguing with a bunch of liberals...

That is the point you can't seem to grasp. The Constitution isn't a document to be followed when it is convenient and easy. You just don't want to admit you or DS6 took the easy road instead of the high road. There is never an excuse to violate someones constitutional rights, ever!
 
That is the point you can't seem to grasp. The Constitution isn't a document to be followed when it is convenient and easy. You just don't want to admit you or DS6 took the easy road instead of the high road. There is never an excuse to violate someones constitutional rights, ever!

I wasn't BW and I wasn't in Katrina. Not sure where that came from. The easy road is sitting on here making stupid comments instead of hearing the call of any paramedics or police or nurses, please come to the aid of so-and-so city. ONE of my accounts happened in West Liberty, KY.

Now that the facts are straight, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT about the Constitution. So give me what I asked for earlier then, I'll wait.

So much for the BW book. Sorry Artic
 
Seems as how you are hell bent on stirring the pot then let me elaborate on the last page and a half as you obviously did not read everything that I have wrote. None of use wanted to disarm anyone. Do you know what Posse Comitatus is?? if not, then I suggest you read up on it. It was temporarily suspended therefore martial law was invoked.

I thank you for bringing this overall matter into the light of day, and I only thank you for that, and that alone. I can say that your above statement that I quoted has caused me some anxiety, because it does not work in the instance you describe. The Posse Comitatus Act was a Congressional Act, not an Executive Order. The office of the POTUS approved of it. You were well within your right to refuse an order for a contract that you didn't have from any agency of the U.S. government, for a situation that you had no legal basis or precedent to be involved with anyway. You had no jurisdiction from anyone, and that was based on everything you have said so far.

Plenty of people have hurt other people thinking that all they were doing was helping. Sad, and true. Phrases like "The Greater Good" often get repeated at this time, and attitudes like "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." A great danger lies in that thinking, and history has already shown that more than once.

I will agree that there has been and continues to be a huge distortion by the media on what they term as "mercenaries"(I prefer private security personnel as the historical definition is of a big difference). Inaccurate reporting is more prevalent then not, with more opinion being given then fact. I could go on with this for an entire page, and give my own personal experiences, and my other opinion that a slave level warrior caste system currently exists, but that would be entirely off topic, as this is about a book, but this is a relevant topic that was participated in by the book's author.

I would like to make these points too...

The first branch of the Army that George Washington created was the JAG Corps, out of respect for the rule of law.

The National Incident Command System doesn't authorize any violation of any of the Bill of Rights, or the violation of the Constitution. It's a system to properly manage emergency assets on a large scale. How it made it into this discussion, as a talking point, I haven't a clue, but it was used incorrectly. I've set up command at some incidents before, and as with any command, you will answer for everything you, or the team members under your command do. The idea of any command during a critical incident is to create, and maintain a semblance of order among the chaos. Someone will try and twist my words in this regard, and they would be incorrect in doing so, as it doesn't give you any right to disarm any peaceful law abiding citizen during any major emergency if no hostile intent or action is given. You might be okay if you were in an instance where a tornado had completely demolished a group of homes, and you spotted a firearm lying in the middle of a public street, unattended, and took possession of it, with the intent of returning it to it's rightful owner and providing some security for the property from theft. Even then it is still a grey area, as with any command or action you will give, you will answer for. The NICS does not make anyone above the laws currently in place.

Lincoln, and the Congressional Session at the time, during the Civil War, suspended Habeas Corpus, and the Supreme Court ruled that it was unconstitutional.

I, in my final closing(may the impatient rejoice), have this to say...

This is clear proof that we need to make American History mandatory in grade schools across the country first and foremost before World History. Our own failings at understanding our own laws are becoming more prevalent, and the weeds of our own ignorance will strangle the garden of our liberty.

Don't you find it tragically ironic that our country will allow citizens in foreign countries, where there was an insurgency against our own troops, to own, keep, and operate fully automatic AK-47s to defend themselves against armed thieves, and terrorist groups, but yet a similar instance occurs on U.S. soil out of the wake of a natural disaster, and American citizens are disarmed and their 2nd Amendment rights, and Constitutional rights, and liberty and freedom, are violated for the sole reason of security, and.... It's o-fucking-kay?
 
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maggot, you name says enough, as I will count your view as invalid.



"What if they DID go in and let everyone keep their guns? That 'police action' would be about as effective as any other we have attempted and MORE people (BW, civilians, National Guard) would have died from the gangs and thugs and animals that were down there. And then the only people that lose are the good guys and their families, again. And then we say, if only there were better police action laws, (I hate to call them ROEs because this still is home turf, but I can't think of a term for it right now)"

Your such a dull little tool

If whoever it was, and you say you weren't there, had only collected guns from gang bangers roaming the streets, that would have been one thing, and clearly justifiable. But from what I saw on the video and from the stories I heard, they seemed to spend more time robbing law abiding citizens who were legally in, and defending, their homes. Hunters legally carrying their hunting rifles. And an 80 year old woman. I wonder how many gang bangers were really stripped of their weapons?

Your position is indefensible. Give it up: Your amongst better than minds than your own.
 
So videos and stories is what you bring to the table? and you call me a dull tool. I can find videos and stories about Bigfoot too. I am at a loss for words. And, call it what you will, I will not cast pearls before swine any longer. Good job! I concede! You definitely win. Mark one for America. Y'all don't get what I am saying, but keep thinking whatever y'all need to. You all view the govt as a terrible thing, and yes a lot of it is. Most of it in fact. But when it comes to the ones you love, I pray they will NEVER be put into a situation like DS6 was in. There are no right answers here, and as justifiably right as you guys are, (trust me I feel the same about all the Bill of Rights) there are always mitigating circumstances and the world is not a fair place. Maybe when you realize that, you will understand why I say what I say. Until then, May God have mercy on you all and I pray for protection from these kind of situations. DS6, keep on keeping on.
-Hesco
 
[MENTION=45229]0311 Hesco[/MENTION] [MENTION=91385]Darkside-Six[/MENTION]

So videos and stories is what you bring to the table? and you call me a dull tool. I can find videos and stories about Bigfoot too. I am at a loss for words. And, call it what you will, I will not cast pearls before swine any longer. Good job! I concede! You definitely win. Mark one for America. Y'all don't get what I am saying, but keep thinking whatever y'all need to. You all view the govt as a terrible thing, and yes a lot of it is. Most of it in fact. But when it comes to the ones you love, I pray they will NEVER be put into a situation like DS6 was in. There are no right answers here, and as justifiably right as you guys are, (trust me I feel the same about all the Bill of Rights) there are always mitigating circumstances and the world is not a fair place. Maybe when you realize that, you will understand why I say what I say. Until then, May God have mercy on you all and I pray for protection from these kind of situations. DS6, keep on keeping on.
-Hesco

What would you change to keep it from happening again? I would like your thoughts, as well as Darkside's on this. I will say that Darkside's story is a very good case study into how we can prevent this from occurring again.
 
Fuck me running....I see everyone is still at it this morning huh?

It's upsetting that you at once take the view that all this is a personal assault on DS6 (it isn't)

It sure as hell feels that way man.

That is the point you can't seem to grasp. The Constitution isn't a document to be followed when it is convenient and easy. You just don't want to admit you or DS6 took the easy road instead of the high road. There is never an excuse to violate someones constitutional rights, ever!

I thank you for bringing this overall matter into the light of day, and I only thank you for that, and that alone. I can say that your above statement that I quoted has caused me some anxiety, because it does not work in the instance you describe. The Posse Comitatus Act was a Congressional Act, not an Executive Order. The office of the POTUS approved of it. You were well within your right to refuse an order for a contract that you didn't have from any agency of the U.S. government, for a situation that you had no legal basis or precedent to be involved with anyway. You had no jurisdiction from anyone, and that was based on everything you have said so far.

Plenty of people have hurt other people thinking that all they were doing was helping. Sad, and true. Phrases like "The Greater Good" often get repeated at this time, and attitudes like "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." A great danger lies in that thinking, and history has already shown that more than once.

I will agree that there has been and continues to be a huge distortion by the media on what they term as "mercenaries"(I prefer private security personnel as the historical definition is of a big difference). Inaccurate reporting is more prevalent then not, with more opinion being given then fact. I could go on with this for an entire page, and give my own personal experiences, and my other opinion that a slave level warrior caste system currently exists, but that would be entirely off topic, as this is about a book, but this is a relevant topic that was participated in by the book's author.

I would like to make these points too...

The first branch of the Army that George Washington created was the JAG Corps, out of respect for the rule of law.

The National Incident Command System doesn't authorize any violation of any of the Bill of Rights, or the violation of the Constitution. It's a system to properly manage emergency assets on a large scale. How it made it into this discussion, as a talking point, I haven't a clue, but it was used incorrectly. I've set up command at some incidents before, and as with any command, you will answer for everything you, or the team members under your command do. The idea of any command during a critical incident is to create, and maintain a semblance of order among the chaos. Someone will try and twist my words in this regard, and they would be incorrect in doing so, as it doesn't give you any right to disarm any peaceful law abiding citizen during any major emergency if no hostile intent or action is given. You might be okay if you were in an instance where a tornado had completely demolished a group of homes, and you spotted a firearm lying in the middle of a public street, unattended, and took possession of it, with the intent of returning it to it's rightful owner and providing some security for the property from theft. Even then it is still a grey area, as with any command or action you will give, you will answer for. The NICS does not make anyone above the laws currently in place.

Lincoln, and the Congressional Session at the time, during the Civil War, suspended Habeas Corpus, and the Supreme Court ruled that it was unconstitutional.

I, in my final closing(may the impatient rejoice), have this to say...

This is clear proof that we need to make American History mandatory in grade schools across the country first and foremost before World History. Our own failings at understanding our own laws are becoming more prevalent, and the weeds of our own ignorance will strangle the garden of our liberty.

Don't you find it tragically ironic that our country will allow citizens in foreign countries, where there was an insurgency against our own troops, to own, keep, and operate fully automatic AK-47s to defend themselves against armed thieves, and terrorist groups, but yet a similar instance occurs on U.S. soil out of the wake of a natural disaster, and American citizens are disarmed and their 2nd Amendment rights, and Constitutional rights, and liberty and freedom, are violated for the sole reason of security, and.... It's o-fucking-kay?

[MENTION=45229]0311 Hesco[/MENTION] [MENTION=91385]Darkside-Six[/MENTION]



What would you change to keep it from happening again? I would like your thoughts, as well as Darkside's on this. I will say that Darkside's story is a very good case study into how we can prevent this from occurring again.

Ok fellas, i'm going to try and elaborate on all this because it doesn't look like too many people read through the entire 2 pages of fist fighting going on here :)

This whole shit storm started because I first decided to defend Blackwater as a company in the fact that many people are quick to judge them but do not truly know what they actually do in any situation. It then turned to me defending myself as the flame war started for things that went on down there that we were not really a part of.

Now Armaheavy, everything you said here is good but it's above my pay grade, or dare I say my education level.

If you were to take my particular group that was in NO under normal circumstances and say to them......"there is a crack house in this neighborhood so we are going to go into every house and take all there guns as a precuastion" Well......A little light would pop on in most of our heads and we'd say something along the lines of "fuck you" BUT....during those circumstances, when there was this national catastrophe and all this chaos. Murders, rapes, beatings on an hourly bases.....and they came and told us that if we come across armed people to take their guns, to prevent further crimes......well I guess during all that we (or I) didn't stop to think if it was unconstitutional.

Here is the timeline for me with BW in Katrina, here is how it all breaks down.

Katrina happens.....disaster. Bell South Hires BW to work Security for their workers in their facilities while they work to get communications restored. We patrol the streets outside facilties and escort workers between plants and facilities. We start getting shot at by gang bangers, thugs, and bad guys. We show up in a bigger force. Things were more chaotic than originally thought so they send more PMC's down. Local law enforcement finds out we've had some run in's with some gangs and they can't keep up with it fast enough, nor the National Guard so they ask for help evacuating people. First thing we all thought was.....we're not fucking police and we don't really want to get involved. Someone higher up the company food chained sent it down that we were to help the national guard evacuate 1 suburban neighborhood so we were put in the shit. Again, we didn't go in guns up screaming at people to "get the fuck out" we were polite and said to them that everyone was evacuating the area. We didn't ask them for guns, we didn't give a shit as long as they were not fireing them at us or innocent people. nobody we encountered bitched at us or acted like they were intimidated by us, they did what everyone else did and vacated.

As for the guns we took, well when you patrol a 2 block radius at night around your facility and have numerous run ins with fuckheads trying to shoot at you and the you see some people who look like they're strait out of "New Jack City" with a few guns on a corner.......we rolled up and took them from them. Told them that the Army and Police didn't want people with guns on the street, and we left. Now I may be guilty of profiling..sure. but I looked at it as preventing another asshole from shooting at us down there....or someone else.

Now I don't know what the rest of BW guys did down there, but people are making it sound like we were just a bunch of rent-a-cops running around and throwing people into the street and taking their guns while we're at it.....and that couldn't be farther from the truth.

With that I would like to say Happy Thanksgiving to all. Let the verbal fist-a-cuffs commence, I'm about to go eat some warm apple pie with some cinnamon ice cream. 'Merica!
 
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