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On Liberty

Maggot

Maggot

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood"
Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
    • Jul 27, 2007
    25,888
    29,175
    Virginia
    Post your favorite quotes here. Ill begin:


    “But let it not be said that we did nothing. Let not those who love the power of the welfare/warfare state label the dissenters of authoritarianism as unpatriotic or uncaring. Patriotism is more closely linked to dissent than it is to conformity and a blind desire for safety and security. Understanding the magnificent rewards of a free society makes us unbashful in its promotion, fully realizing that maximum wealth is created and the greatest chance for peace comes from a society respectful of individual liberty.” Ron Paul


    "Only in ourselves the light, the dawn. Beneath our night a sun awaits us, greater than the universe, the authentic freedom of man. But freedom is like wheat, it must be planted softly, and watered every day. It must be protected until it multiplies, fills the mouth of the wind, the hunger of ALL, and becomes, invincible," Otto Rene Castillo
     
    “If tyranny and oppression come to this land it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.”
    ― James Madison

    “If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
    ― Samuel Adams

    “The means of defence against foreign danger have been always the instruments of tyranny at home. Among the Romans it was a standing maxim to excite a war, whenever a revolt was apprehended. Throughout all Europe, the armies kept up under the pretext of defending, have enslaved the people.”
    ― James Madison, Notes of Debates in the Federal Convention of 1787 Reported by James Madison
     
    “The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort.”
    - Lazarus Long
     
    “Liberty is never unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it always vanishes. Of all the so-called natural human rights that have ever been invented, liberty is least likely to be cheap and is never free of cost.”

    “Social responsibility above the level of family, or at most of tribe, requires imagination-- devotion, loyalty, all the higher virtues -- which a man must develop himself; if he has them forced down him, he will vomit them out.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Starship Troopers
     
    Let no man who would pound his sword into a plowshare enjoy liberty more than the one who would stand against tyranny for him

    Accept no man into your home who would not stand at your side with a smile at the prospect of glory in battle(yes, we all know this is best experienced through a sucking chest wound, but it still sounds good)

    Hold no man a friend who would not share your belief in liberty for all

    -Me-
     
    “They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power.” -Patrick Henry
     
    Concerning bondage and liberty,
    there is no question.
    Cold steel is a far tastier dish,
    than heel.

    Me
     
    It is the greatest absurdity to suppose it in the power of one, or any number of men, at the entering into society, to renounce their essential natural rights, or the means of preserving those rights; when the grand end of civil government, from the very nature of its institution, is for the support, protection, and defence of those very rights; the principal of which, as is before observed, are Life, Liberty, and Property. If men, through fear, fraud, or mistake, should in terms renounce or give up any essential natural right, the eternal law of reason and the grand end of society would absolutely vacate such renunciation. The right to freedom being the gift of God Almighty, it is not in the power of man to alienate this gift and voluntarily become a slave.

    -- Samuel Adams
     
    [W]hen the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man, who was governor of Pennsylvania, to disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should not do it openly, but weaken them, and let them sink gradually...I ask, who are the militia? They consist of now of the whole people, except a few public officers. But I cannot say who will be the militia of the future day. If that paper on the table gets no alteration, the militia of the future day may not consist of all classes, high and low, and rich and poor...
    ---George Mason
     
    [W]hereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them; nor does it follow from this, that all promiscuously must go into actual service on every occasion. The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle; and when we see many men disposed to practice upon it, whenever they can prevail, no wonder true republicans are for carefully guarding against it.
    ---Richard Henry Lee, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788
     
    "On the day when you again allow abominable men to confiscate your freedom, your money, your lives, your private property, your manhood and your sacred honor, in the name of "security' or "national emergency' you will die, and never again shall you be free. If plotters again destroy your Republic, they will do it by your greedy and ignorant assent, by your disregard of your neighbors' rights, by your apathy and your stupidity. We were brought to the brink of universal death and darkness because we had become that most contemptible of people -- an angerless one. Keep alive and vivid all your righteous anger against traitors, against those who would abrogate your Constitution, against those who would lead you to wars with false slogans and cunning appeals to your patriotism." -- Taylor Caldwell, "The Devil's Advocate"(1952) -- pgs. 332 -- 338
     
    "We have counted the cost of this contest, and find nothing so dreadful as voluntary slavery. -- Honour, justice, and humanity, forbid us tamely to surrender that freedom which we received from our gallant ancestors, and which our innocent posterity have a right to receive from us. We cannot endure the infamy and guilt of resigning succeeding generations to that wretchedness which inevitably awaits them, if we basely entail hereditary bondage upon them."

    If Thomas Jefferson (above) considered his ancestors gallant, then he left us no word to describe our ancestors; his generation.

    from; A Declaration by the Representatives of the United Colonies of North-America, Now Met in Congress at Philadelphia, Setting Forth the Causes and Necessity of Their Taking Up Arms.(1)
     
    Few men desire liberty, most wish only for a just master - Sallust

    Asking permission implies the authority to make the decision - Me
     
    One need not recruit brigades in order to subjugate a nation; but rather subvert its means of reporting events, undermine its salient values, and discourage persons of good conscience from participating in the political process. The means one need employ to accomplish this misdeed could most easily be found in the higher educational system. The means to ensure its success can be found in disenfranchisement and disarmament.

    From my point of view, that task is well underway, and in all but a few degrees and aspects, is already accomplished.

    Democracy, for all its high aims, has proven to be the most effective means of self destruction. Every force, including that for the good, generates an equal and opposite reaction. What once was the United States of America has become the equal and opposite of what the Founders intended.

    Thank democracy for the favor; not to those who love this nation, but to those who don't.

    Greg
     
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    A newer one from my collection:

    "Any man who seeks to deny essential liberty to another without cause, is an evil son of a bitch. He cannot be a “Good Man”. It is irrelevant if his family likes him or if he is kind to animals, sends his mother in-law flowers or makes the trains run on time. It is irrelevant if you served with him, if he has done brave things in the past. No amount of desire to “protect” or to “secure” or “prevent” will improve him. Declarations of his desire to apply “common sense” and be “reasonable” cannot redeem him. His desire to deny essential liberty to one, based on the actions of others reveals the monster that abides in the soul of that man. If he seeks this, stating the loss of liberty is necessary for the health of the society he is the philosophical twin of every tyrant and mass murdering butcher in history. If American society is to survive, the decent, honest citizen must band together to drive these evil people from our society. They must suppress their innate live and let live philosophy and face the unpleasant fact that the man who seeks to deny an individual or a society those essential liberties is a potential killer whose bloody solutions will be incrementally revealed as he gains power."
    --Bob Wright


    t
     
    One of my favorites:

    "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from regard to their own interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages. Nobody but a beggar chooses to depend chiefly upon the benevolence of his fellow citizens."
    --Adam Smith



    t
     
    A few shorter quotes:

    "The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody had decided not to see."
    --Ayn Rand


    "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work."
    --Thomas A. Edison

    “Much of the social history of the Western world, over the past three decades, has been a history of replacing what worked with what sounded good."
    --Thomas Sowell


    Probably my favorite to date & most often used:

    “One of the annoying things about believing in free will and individual responsibility is the difficulty of finding somebody to blame your problems on. And when you do find somebody, its remarkable how often his picture turns up on your driver's license."
    --P.J. O'Rourke


    t
     
    One must revere the wisdom offered via our nations past.... if only one would listen...


    "A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody."
    --Thomas Paine


    “It is not always the same thing to be a good man and a good citizen."
    --Aristotle


    t
     
    T J said:
    A few shorter quotes:

    "The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody had decided not to see."
    --Ayn Rand



    t
    Click to expand...

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^I could speak volumes on this one....but every one is to busy too listen and too wise to hear and understand. Me
     
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

    John Stuart Mill
     
    Flyingbullseye said:
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

    John Stuart Mill
    Click to expand...


    That's a keeper, thanks.



    t
     
    "He who will not reason is a Bigot; he who cannot is a Fool; and he who dares not is a Slave." Sir William Drummond

    Borrowed from Ballistic
     
    The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government."

    Patrick Henry
     
    Couple more for today :)

    I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
    --Thomas Jefferson



    My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.
    --Thomas Jefferson



    t
     
    “Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.”
    --Ronald Reagan


    “Man is not free unless government is limited.”
    --Ronald Reagan



    t
     
    One of my Favorite Ronnie quotes:

    “Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it on to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.”
    --Ronald Reagan




    y
     


    [SIZE=+2]The Gods of the Copybook Headings [/SIZE]

    By Kipling

    [SIZE=+1]AS I PASS through my incarnations in every age and race,
    I make my proper prostrations to the Gods of the Market Place.
    Peering through reverent fingers I watch them flourish and fall,
    And the Gods of the Copybook Headings, I notice, outlast them all.

    We were living in trees when they met us. They showed us each in turn
    That Water would certainly wet us, as Fire would certainly burn:
    But we found them lacking in Uplift, Vision and Breadth of Mind,
    So we left them to teach the Gorillas while we followed the March of Mankind.

    We moved as the Spirit listed. They never altered their pace,
    Being neither cloud nor wind-borne like the Gods of the Market Place,
    But they always caught up with our progress, and presently word would come
    That a tribe had been wiped off its icefield, or the lights had gone out in Rome.

    With the Hopes that our World is built on they were utterly out of touch,
    They denied that the Moon was Stilton; they denied she was even Dutch;
    They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings;
    So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.

    When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
    They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
    But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
    And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know."

    On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
    (Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)
    Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
    And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "The Wages of Sin is Death."

    In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
    By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
    But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
    And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "If you don't work you die."

    Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew
    And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true
    That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four
    And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.

    As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
    There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.
    That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
    And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;

    And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
    When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
    As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
    The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return! [/SIZE]

    <tbody>
    </tbody>
     
    "You shall know the Truth and the Truth shall make you free." A very wise man.

    Seems, unfortunately, few Americans today, want to know, or face the Truth.
     
    "The tank, the B-52, the fighter-bomber, the state controlled police and the military are the weapons of dictatorship. The rifle is the weapon of democracy. Not for nothing was the revolver called an 'equalizer.' Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. Edward Abby 1979
     
    kraigWY said:
    "The tank, the B-52, the fighter-bomber, the state controlled police and the military are the weapons of dictatorship. The rifle is the weapon of democracy. Not for nothing was the revolver called an 'equalizer.' Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. Edward Abby 1979
    Click to expand...


    That's a damn good one Kraig, I'm adding it to my collection.


    t
     
    A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.
    Thomas Jefferson
     
    If it keeps on raining, the levee is going to break..... crying won't help you praying won't do you no good... Led Zeppelin

    Sorry, but that song runs through my head whenever I start thinking about things like this.
     
    "Those who fight monsters should take care that they never become one. For when you stand and look long into the abyss, the abyss also looks into you." ~ Frederich Nietsche
     
    I have some qualms about emulating the sentiments of Edward P. Abby. His 'weapons of dictatorship' only become such in the absence of Posse Comitatus; which unfortunately seems imminent, if not already fact.

    The reference about the revolver being the equalizer was (IMHO) meant at that time as an equalizer between peers, and not between citizen and dictatorship. Again, modern circumstance gives more and more validity to his meaning.

    Finally the Bill of Rights was written by the founders, who were not your common people any more than our present leadership is composed of common people. Each was and is an aristocracy, albeit an elected one, which makes the current acts of leadership even more at odds with the founders, and with the Constitutional ideals they championed.

    Seriously, how many 'common people' do you know who could have the faintest chance of attaining election to modern government? It is only with the reigning party aristocrats' approval that any candidate achieves election.

    Whatever it is that passes for governance these days looks with displeasure upon the intentions of the founders, claiming hypocrisy upon hypocrisy as they explain their actions with the apologisms of the Supreme Hypocrite.

    Liberty these days ceases to be a fact, and serves instead as a bargaining chip in the haggle each side employs to forge its own version of oppression.

    Abby was an anarchist, and his statements were made in support of such a platform. I doubt any here support anarchy; yet his statement nevertheless accrue more and more relevance as time passes.

    P.T. Barnum had it right. They can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time. It is only with the aid of hypocrisy that enough of the people can be fooled all of the time to allow hypocrisy to rise to supremacy.

    Such baseless hypocrisy can't last forever, and anyone who allows People Control in the guise of Gun Control to disenfranchise them and rip away their Liberty deserves what they get. I can assure them they won't like the outcome.

    My Wife comes from Germany, and her Grandmother lived with us until her passing. She saw and she knew, and if she were alive today, she would be telling us all we are but sheep for the slaughter. She saw it, she knew, and she would not be standing silent while her government turned to outright oppression. For her, once was more than enough.

    People I meet seem to think everything is OK; not perfect, but OK. They seem to think that there is an eternity of time within which to rescue their Liberties. Me, I don't think so; I doubts there is any time at all, and maybe we are already well past any chance to reverse our path.

    But a good start is hell of a lot better than the silence of the sheep. Ask the Jews about that one. Their answer was, is, and always will be, "Never Again!!!".

    I say "Even once is too much".

    Nazi Weapons Act of 1938 (Translated to English)
    •Classified guns for "sporting purposes".
    •All citizens who wished to purchase firearms had to register with the Nazi officials and have a background check.
    •Presumed German citizens were hostile and thereby exempted Nazis from the gun control law.
    •Gave Nazis unrestricted power to decide what kinds of firearms could, or could not be owned by private persons.
    •The types of ammunition that were legal were subject to control by bureaucrats.
    •Juveniles under 18 years could not buy firearms and ammunition.
    Click to expand...

    For the record, in just what way is what we have today any different from the above? That's easy, in the way that how things differ today are precisely the things that are being sought.

    Wake up, folks.

    Greg
     
    Last edited:
    Greg Langelius * said:
    I have some qualms about emulating the sentiments of Edward P. Abby. His 'weapons of dictatorship' only become such in the absence of Posse Comitatus; which unfortunately seems imminent, if not already fact.

    The reference about the revolver being the equalizer was (IMHO) meant at that time as an equalizer between peers, and not between citizen and dictatorship. Again, modern circumstance gives more and more validity to his meaning.

    Finally the Bill of Rights was written by the founders, who were not your common people any more than our present leadership is composed of common people. Each was and is an aristocracy, albeit an elected one, which makes the current acts of leadership even more at odds with the founders, and with the Constitutional ideals they championed.

    Seriously, how many 'common people' do you know who could have the faintest chance of attaining election to modern government? It is only with the reigning party aristocrats' approval that any candidate achieves election.

    Whatever it is that passes for governance these days looks with displeasure upon the intentions of the founders, claiming hypocrisy upon hypocrisy as they explain their actions with the apologisms of the Supreme Hypocrite.

    Liberty these days ceases to be a fact, and serves instead as a bargaining chip in the haggle each side employs to forge its own version of oppression.

    Abby was an anarchist, and his statements were made in support of such a platform. I doubt any here support anarchy; yet his statement nevertheless accrue more and more relevance as time passes.

    P.T. Barnum had it right. They can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time. It is only with the aid of hypocrisy that enough of the people can be fooled all of the time to allow hypocrisy to rise to supremacy.

    Such baseless hypocrisy can't last forever, and anyone who allows People Control in the guise of Gun Control to disenfranchise them and rip away their Liberty deserves what they get. I can assure them they won't like the outcome.

    My Wife comes from Germany, and her Grandmother lived with us until her passing. She saw and she knew, and if she were alive today, she would be telling us all we are but sheep for the slaughter. She saw it, she knew, and she would not be standing silent while her government turned to outright oppression. For her, once was more than enough.

    People I meet seem to think everything is OK; not perfect, but OK. They seem to think that there is an eternity of time within which to rescue their Liberties. Me, I don't think so; I doubts there is any time at all, and maybe we are already well past any chance to reverse our path.

    But a good start is hell of a lot better than the silence of the sheep. Ask the Jews about that one. Their answer was, is, and always will be, "Never Again!!!".

    I say "Even once is too much".

    Greg
    Click to expand...

    Greg, technically speaking ther are (at least) two forms of anarchy:

    1-Philosophical anarchy, which holds that no one can rightfully surrender his responsibility to think and make choices for themselves.

    --------From Wikipedia:philosophical anarchists may accept the existence of a minimal state as an unfortunate, and usually temporary, "necessary evil" but argue that citizens do not have a moral obligation to obey the state when its laws conflict with individual autonomy.[7] As conceived by William Godwin, it requires individuals to act in accordance with their own judgments and to allow every other individual the same liberty; conceived egoistically as by Max Stirner, it implies that 'the unique one' who truly 'owns himself' recognizes no duties to others; within the limit of his might, he does what is right for him.[8]

    Rather than taking up arms to bring down the state, philosophical anarchists "have worked for a gradual change to free the individual from what they thought were the oppressive laws and social constraints of the modern state and allow all individuals to become self-determining and value-creating."[9] They may oppose the immediate elimination of the state by violent means out of concern that what remained might be vulnerable to the establishment of a yet more harmful and oppressive state. This is especially true among those anarchists who consider violence and the state as synonymous, or who consider it counterproductive where public reaction to violence results in increased "law enforcement" efforts.


    2=Political anarchism- Anarchism is a political philosophy that advocates stateless societies often defined as self-governed voluntary institutions,[1][2][3][4] but that several authors have defined as more specific institutions based on non-hierarchical free associations.[5][6][7][8] Anarchism holds the state to be undesirable, unnecessary, or harmful.[9][10] While anti-statism is central, some argue[11] that anarchism entails opposing authority or hierarchical organization in the conduct of human relations, including, but not limited to, the state system.[6

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------******************************-----------------------------------------



    I find my personal view of this topic idealistically, leaning toward the second, but realistically leaning toward the first. Only when mankind as a whole learns to live by "The Golden Rule", ie: Treating all others as we wish to be treated, will we be able to set aside all forms of exterior government. Until then I must live within the parameter of refusing to follow that which I find to be against my moral compass while attempting to live with in a societal government.
     
    "How a politician stands on the Second Amendment tells you how he or she views you as an individual... as a trustworthy and productive citizen, or as part of an unruly crowd that needs to be lorded over, controlled, supervised, and taken care of." -Dr. Suzan Hupp-

    "Politicians that would group all law abiding gun owners under the same brand as a monster of a human being that would commit mass murder among children are the same politicians that are complicit with this murder by legislating gun free zones and restricting our God-given right to self-defense and the defense of our children." -Me-
     
    I'm not a fan of anarchy in any shape or form anyway, so any distinction between its various flavors doesn't move me.

    Besides, for me, this entire topic is little more than a mental exercise at best.

    I thoroughly doubt that anyone is going to do anything significant about changing the status quo at all. If they were, I think we'd have heard about it by now, otherwise, no point to this topic anyway.

    It's all just chest beating and the batting of gums; beyond that...

    I should just concede that I'm too old for such topics and leave it all go.

    Greg
     
    Greg Langelius * said:
    I'm not a fan of anarchy in any shape or form anyway, so any distinction between its various flavors doesn't move me.

    Besides, for me, this entire topic is little more than a mental exercise at best.

    I thoroughly doubt that anyone is going to do anything significant about changing the status quo at all. If they were, I think we'd have heard about it by now, otherwise, no point to this topic anyway.

    It's all just chest beating and the batting of gums; beyond that...

    I should just concede that I'm too old for such topics and leave it all go.

    Greg
    Click to expand...

    I find your post, (relatively and mildly) disappointing but fully support your right to it. That's what liberty is all about isn't it.

    As to it being only a 'mental exercise', "Use it or lose it" pops into my mind.I work at keeping my mind active. But I find it something more. It's a group of freedom loving individual's discussing that which they love....and keeping the thoughts of other like minded individuals in their thoughts. Little different than a group of shooting devotees talking shooting, or a group of cat lovers discussing cats. If that is the batting of gums and chest beating, long live batting and beating. One never knows what the future may hold.

    Your concession cheerfully accepted.
     
    Magg;

    I find my post at least equally disappointing, and I could easily agree with your sentiment but for the lack of evidence to genuinely rebut my view. As much as I'd like to agree, the Liberty burger being served here seems to be genuinely vegetarian.

    Along with "use it or lose it", my response would be "use it for what?"; and my thinking falls rather more into the "Talking the talk, but...".

    Ever since the AWB in the 90's, folks here have been talking about standing fast and defending the 2nd, but when it comes right down to it, we all just seem to roll with the blow every time some new and improved outrage gets issued from Olympus

    That's the actual track record, and I find that most sorely disappointing; but what's even more disappointing is that there is NO evidence that you, I, or the people sitting in front of their TV's and grumbling, or mouthing off about Liberty, are ever going to be in any way even a little bit more similar to the Sons of liberty.

    The Founders are all dead and gone, and their like is nowhere evident.

    BTW, the part about the mental exercise was about said concession.

    Hey, we're nearly totally in agreement, but my gripe is about there being plenty of talk, and damned near no action evident in this topic. So who here is changing that? You? Me? The other posters here?

    Exactly!

    Greg
     
    Last edited:
    Greg Langelius * said:
    Magg;

    I find my post at least equally disappointing, and I could easily agree with your sentiment but for the lack of evidence to genuinely rebut my view. As much as I'd like to agree, the Liberty burger being served here seems to be genuinely vegetarian.

    Along with "use it or lose it", my response would be "use it for what?"; and my thinking falls rather more into the "Talking the talk, but...".

    Ever since the AWB in the 90's, folks here have been talking about standing fast and defending the 2nd, but when it comes right down to it, we all just seem to roll with the blow every time some new and improved outrage gets issued from Olympus

    That's the actual track record, and I find that most sorely disappointing; but what's even more disappointing is that there is NO evidence that you, I, or the people sitting in front of their TV's and grumbling, or mouthing off abut Liberty, are ever going to be in any way even a little bit more similar to the Sons of liberty.

    The Founders are all dead and gone, and their like is nowhere evident.

    BTW, the part about the mental exercise was about said concession.

    Hey, we're nearly totally in agreement, but my gripe is about there being plenty of talk, and damned near no action evident in this topic. So who here is changing that? You? Me? The other posters here?

    Exactly!

    Greg
    Click to expand...
    Your follow up is appreciated. Looks like your in a better mood this AM. To some extent I agree that's its a lot of talk, but talk, helps keep the thoughts and the SPIRIT alive, and if for no other reason, valuable. The talk represents and solidifies our beliefs. We have, at least, been able to stem some of the the garbage coming down the pipe from "You Know Who" and the anti's. Besides, I find the thoughts posted here, inspirational. Inspiration is important. Now could we get back t posting inspirational stuff. You must have at least one for us, Mr. L. And may you and yours have a blessed and prosperous late December. Give my regards to Kasumi should you speak with him.

    "Our defense is in the preservation of the spirit which prizes liberty as a heritage of all men, in all lands, everywhere. Destroy this spirit and you have planted the seeds of despotism around your own doors." Abraham Lincoln.
     
    In light of the above exchange:

    “Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it on to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.”
    --Ronald Reagan



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    One of the most famous:

    “Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!”
    --Patrick Henry


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