25-06
- Thread starter Rustybroadhead
- Start date
Thanks for that link. Looks like you and I were on the same track. If this thing wasn't a long action, I would do a 6.5cm..... Seems like it fits what I need without the recoil and is pretty cheap to shoot as well. Doesn't seem right to chamber in a long action though
Come to think of it, I know someone who knows someone who knows the local Howa rep.... Maybe I should just buy a donor action and start from scratch.
Great..... More options! LOL
Come to think of it, I know someone who knows someone who knows the local Howa rep.... Maybe I should just buy a donor action and start from scratch.
Great..... More options! LOL
25-06 is a great hunting caliber. I have a Thompson Encore in 25-06 that is a hammer on these little whitetails we have here. As a matter of fact my 13yr old nephew used it to kill his first deer two weeks ago.
It however, has not been the most accurate rifle I have ever used. I know that is most likely due to the rifle itself and not the cartridge but I think I still want to stick with something in the 6mm, 6.5mm or 7mm families.
thanks TopPredator
It however, has not been the most accurate rifle I have ever used. I know that is most likely due to the rifle itself and not the cartridge but I think I still want to stick with something in the 6mm, 6.5mm or 7mm families.
thanks TopPredator
That is why I said a .284,
Long Action - take full advantage of it! You could run something like a 6.5 CM / .260 Rem, but that is really a waste of potential in a Long Action.
Hunting - your call, but I am not a huge fan of hunting larger animals with a 6.5mm bullet. There are some great heavy 7mm hunting bullets, that coming out of a .284, will put a serious hurting on most North American game.
If you check out the hunting crew at Gunwerks, they are shooting anything on 4 legs with a 7mm.
Gunwerks - Long Range Hunting Rifles | Berger Bullets | Ammunition | Turrets
They usually use a 7mm Rem Mag, but you would not be giving up a lot going with a .284, and you would not have the recoil and barrel life issues that you would have with a 7mm Mag.
If you have been following F-Class for the last couple of years, the 6.5mms ruled the roost, with a 6.5-284 being one of the primary leaders. Phenomenal ballistics, but a total barrel burner, with some shooters not getting 800 rounds out of a barrel. Then the new 7mm bullets starting coming out, and shooters started running them in rifles like the .284 and 7mm Short Magnums. Now, the 7mms are ruling the roost, with world championship wins and new world records.
.284 Winchester « Daily Bulletin
Of course in F-Class there are no brakes, so that is where the sane shooters are running a .284, and the sadist are running the 7mm Short Magnums. The .284 shooters are also getting good barrel life, where the 7mm Mag shooters are burning them up like the 6.5-284 shooters were.
Don't get me wrong, I also run a .260 Rem, and for strictly shooting tactical matches inside of 800 yards, it is very hard to beat. But IMHO if you want the ability to go well beyond 1,000 yards in the wind, and the ability to step up a level in terms of hunting capability, the 7mms out of a .284 are very hard to beat unless you are willing to step up to a full magnum.
At the moment the .284 has limited factory resources, and that can be a downside if you are not into "building or rolling" your own. Per above, I am willing to bet that is going to change to some extent in the near future.
A lot of good options out there, really comes down to which Pros & Cons of each are most important for you!
Exact same situation. I am going for a 22" 30-06 in a HS Precision stock and DBM
Just curious. What mag will you plan to use?
I have the stealth dbm from Pacific tool and gauge for the AI mags
I just went through this same thing with a Savage 110. I originally wanted to do it up in 30-06 as I have a few of them and am set up to reload for it. But then I got to looking around and talking with people. I bounced from 30-06 to 30-06AI, then someone said to check out the 284 but I had somewhat settled on the 280AI. Unfortunately impatience got the best of me and I just picked up a 280rem criterion prefit as I didn't feel like waiting the 6-12weeks for an AI barrel. Plus all the fire forming and such just didn't have much appeal to me as I am somewhat limited on the time that I get to go shooting.
The 280 has just a slight edge over some of the others. The VLD's seem to have really good BC's, the 280 has slightly more range over the 30-06, brass is/was easy to find (score 500pcs of 1x and virgin brass for cheap). With the 284win, brass is rather limited from what I saw at the time, and from the research I did, the 284 didn't have a enough of a ballistic advantage over the 280 when weighted against the costs. Over all I am very happy with how it turned out. Just wish I had time right now to work up a load and see what I can do with it.
The 280 has just a slight edge over some of the others. The VLD's seem to have really good BC's, the 280 has slightly more range over the 30-06, brass is/was easy to find (score 500pcs of 1x and virgin brass for cheap). With the 284win, brass is rather limited from what I saw at the time, and from the research I did, the 284 didn't have a enough of a ballistic advantage over the 280 when weighted against the costs. Over all I am very happy with how it turned out. Just wish I had time right now to work up a load and see what I can do with it.
Sounds familiar. I just did the exact thing. [I already shoot 7-08].
Remage was a cool project and went right together.
Remington 280 brass was a little rough but cleans up. 1 - 2% went to the trash. I am waiting on a base and will fit a loaner and do some development.
We should post load info as some will want to see it and it is scarce round here.
I have an assortment of 7mm bullets and want to to try them all.
I can always screw on another barrel if I go overboard with this one.
Remage was a cool project and went right together.
Remington 280 brass was a little rough but cleans up. 1 - 2% went to the trash. I am waiting on a base and will fit a loaner and do some development.
We should post load info as some will want to see it and it is scarce round here.
I have an assortment of 7mm bullets and want to to try them all.
I can always screw on another barrel if I go overboard with this one.
Both the 6mm Rem and 6.5-06 are awesome choices!!!
I have a Remington 721 that I had re-barreled for 6mm rem. Shoots the 105gr A-max with H4350 easily over 3000fps and kills the crap out of deer. Great rifle to shoot all day at the range as well, I dont shoot matches but I think the rifle would do well.
I am looking for another Long Action rifle donor to do a 6.5-06. I think the 6.5-06 makes the 25-06 and 270 Win Obsolete
Both are easy to load for and brass can be found or formed easily
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yeah. It doesn't seem like there is a lot of love for the 280rem around here (not a lot of hate either). Once I get around to playing with loads I will probably post stuff up. But I haven't quite finished the rifle yet. Still need to nitride the barrel, get everything cerakoted, and pick up a few more odd parts. But when its done, it will be sweet for sure. I also want to try to find an old beater long action 700 to do up as a Remage just because I can. But I also have 2 short action projects underway so those need to get wrapped up first.
+1 for 30-06. You could even do a match chamber. Virtually no tinkering required especially for a newbee reloader. Gives you a chance to learn alot in the reloading dept yet very forgiving if minor mistakes are made. Brass is endless in supply, reloading data out the ying yang, great hunting round and a great match contender. Not a barrel burner and very inexpensive returns. Later down the road after you have the real experience required in reloading and tuning then go to a more complex caliber. Just my honest opinion....oh yeah good for at least 1000yds+. Spend less time at reloading bench and more time behind the trigger
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The best thing you can do is look at your "collection" and figure out out where the caliber hole is. I had a similar situation last year, but with a Win M70. It was a 30-06, but had another that was a hammer and had just aquired a 3rd in a trade. The Win barrel was long past performance and I didn't need (3) 30-06's. The one I aquired in a trade (it was for an old appliance guys), was a plain jane savage 110, easy to build on, the M70, not so much. I opened the reloading books and started looking at specs and spent some hours doing the math.
As I said, I had a 30-06 I was very pleased with - so I optioned to go with a 338-06 on the savage and I had a 280 Rem built by PCR on the M70. It filled performance gaps all the way around.
I will add this though. Better look at the volume of a 280 Rem. The manuals are extremely understating the max on that round! I get ~2950+ fps from 162 Amax and the rifle performs! It isn't an AI, yup gave a little up for the ease of not have to deal with fire-forming. But I have a 7MM RM, so I didn't feel the need to chase the mag performance either.
Figure out what you need first, make sure you can feed it next.
That's my .02
As I said, I had a 30-06 I was very pleased with - so I optioned to go with a 338-06 on the savage and I had a 280 Rem built by PCR on the M70. It filled performance gaps all the way around.
I will add this though. Better look at the volume of a 280 Rem. The manuals are extremely understating the max on that round! I get ~2950+ fps from 162 Amax and the rifle performs! It isn't an AI, yup gave a little up for the ease of not have to deal with fire-forming. But I have a 7MM RM, so I didn't feel the need to chase the mag performance either.
Figure out what you need first, make sure you can feed it next.
That's my .02
What powder are you using for the 280rem. With powders starting to become more available I want to try a few. Got a few different powders for the 30-06 and 308 sitting around (H4895, IMR4064, RL19 and a couple others that I am forgetting).
With the 162's; I'm using H4831SC
2950 makes it interesting doesn't it?
How much 4831 are you burning? OAL? Barrel length?
I have 162's and H4831.
Dang. I just sold the one and only lb I had of it to a friend in need. Oh well. Hopefully it comes back into stock soon.
26" Bartlein, 8.4tw barrel. OAL = 3.381
How much? Let me preface that bit of data with a "this is way over listed max" statement.
I found the accuracy point at 59.3gr H5831sc. I have tested up to 60.0 gr with no pressure indicators.
I state this only because it appears to me that there isn't much testing done on the 280. The data in the reloading manuals really seems setup for the semi-auto Remington introduced the round with, especially when comparing it to the 280ai.
Run a pressure test and see what your barrel handles. I don't advise jumping right up there. But now that it is out there, I'm sure someone else will be testing it soon.
Apologies to Rusty - didn't mean to hijack your thread.
To the OP I'd try the straight 280!!
JustMy02 - I agree!! loading the 280 by the book seems very mild, I had a spare rem LA and having had 2x 280AI recently (not caring to fire form anymore)
I built a straight 280 instead the rifle was built with 21' barrel and set up for 168 vlds, I then looked at 140 VLD's and thought wonder how they would shoot and how fast. tried RL-17 started at 53 (Max on Alliant website) looking for pressure and accuracy I'm up to 62grn near max in my rifle 140 VLDs getting 3400 fps out of 21" barrel, I backed the load off to 61 and i'm pretty happy single digit sd
280 is a great round
JustMy02 - I agree!! loading the 280 by the book seems very mild, I had a spare rem LA and having had 2x 280AI recently (not caring to fire form anymore)
I built a straight 280 instead the rifle was built with 21' barrel and set up for 168 vlds, I then looked at 140 VLD's and thought wonder how they would shoot and how fast. tried RL-17 started at 53 (Max on Alliant website) looking for pressure and accuracy I'm up to 62grn near max in my rifle 140 VLDs getting 3400 fps out of 21" barrel, I backed the load off to 61 and i'm pretty happy single digit sd
280 is a great round
.284 or 6.5-.284 if it were me.
The poor mans magnum 30-06 you will always be able to find loaded ammo or brass for reloading. Just my 2 cents worth.
If I had a long action to build I would go 284 Winchester. I have seen a few matches that don't allow magnum calibers. From the ones I've seen the 284 doesn't give up much to the 7 short mags that dominate a lot of matches.
Steve B.
Steve B.
Honestly if you want to run it in tactical matches no way would I go LA. Sell the gun, put the money towards what your end goal is. Build a 6.5 Creedmoor and buy factory Hornady 140 AMAX ammo and carry on. You can CERTAINLY deer hunt with it and several Elk have meant their demise as well.
You can get a trued Rem700 Action from Russel at Scout Supply Company for $550. Buy a quality 6.5mm barrel with a 1:8.5 or 1:8 twist. I like Bartlein but Kreiger and Rock are good choices as well. A Rem Varmit of Medium Palma contour work well for double duty of being able to fire a 10 round string and not lose accuracy but not be too heavy for a hunting application. 24" long barrel should work well.
Add a custom aftermarket recoil lug from say PTG, my smith likes the .250 Straight Lug CM. A nice trigger such as Jewell, Timney or Rifle Basics or get an old style Rem 700 with the grooves in the shoe and have a smith polish the sear and install a Holland reduced power spring. Drop it in nice stock I like KMW, McMillan or Manners and some detachable bottom metal like Surgeon or Badger and carry on.
There is a reason why you don't see long actions at PRS matches.
You can get a trued Rem700 Action from Russel at Scout Supply Company for $550. Buy a quality 6.5mm barrel with a 1:8.5 or 1:8 twist. I like Bartlein but Kreiger and Rock are good choices as well. A Rem Varmit of Medium Palma contour work well for double duty of being able to fire a 10 round string and not lose accuracy but not be too heavy for a hunting application. 24" long barrel should work well.
Add a custom aftermarket recoil lug from say PTG, my smith likes the .250 Straight Lug CM. A nice trigger such as Jewell, Timney or Rifle Basics or get an old style Rem 700 with the grooves in the shoe and have a smith polish the sear and install a Holland reduced power spring. Drop it in nice stock I like KMW, McMillan or Manners and some detachable bottom metal like Surgeon or Badger and carry on.
There is a reason why you don't see long actions at PRS matches.
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Barney,
Thanks for the info. I really never thought about the long action being a disadvantage in some way. I just thought that most people use calibers more suited to a short action. I am curious as to what makes going with a long action a huge no no.
Thanks!
Thanks for the info. I really never thought about the long action being a disadvantage in some way. I just thought that most people use calibers more suited to a short action. I am curious as to what makes going with a long action a huge no no.
Thanks!
The action itself could probably be used but it's really not fit for purpose. Your going to have about an inch longer action with equates to another inch of OAL and it will be marginally heavier. Both of which might not be a deal killer but WHY when you dont need either? What I meant by my statement was that long action calibers generally have too much recoil to be able to effectively mange it to stay on target through recoil to spot impacts. In a match we don't care about energy on target just ballistic flight. Sure some of the heavy 7mm and .30cal's can match or beat the 6mm and 6.5's trajectory but the recoil kills you. You can sell your LA and buy a SA that IS fit for purpose and not be out any money, you might even come out ahead.
There is other small things like bigger mags that have less capacity. The list goes on. At the end of the day it's your money and spend it like you want.
My first custom I had built I sent the smith a complete factory 700P with all the parts he would need to build a custom gun using only the action. If I would have sold the gun and just bought an action with the money I would have had money left over. I was a noob and didn't know any better. Just trying to save you from my pitfall.
There are over 93,000 members on here and 65 shooters shot in the nations premier tactical rifle series finale this year, I was one of them. What does that mean, jack shit nothing! But what I am telling you is from experience not from reading crap on the internet and regurgitating it on a forum.
You want info here it is PrecisionRifleBlog.com | A Data-Driven Approach to Precision Rifles & Handloading
There is other small things like bigger mags that have less capacity. The list goes on. At the end of the day it's your money and spend it like you want.
My first custom I had built I sent the smith a complete factory 700P with all the parts he would need to build a custom gun using only the action. If I would have sold the gun and just bought an action with the money I would have had money left over. I was a noob and didn't know any better. Just trying to save you from my pitfall.
There are over 93,000 members on here and 65 shooters shot in the nations premier tactical rifle series finale this year, I was one of them. What does that mean, jack shit nothing! But what I am telling you is from experience not from reading crap on the internet and regurgitating it on a forum.
You want info here it is PrecisionRifleBlog.com | A Data-Driven Approach to Precision Rifles & Handloading
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Barney, I really appreciate your time and helping me out. Thanks for the link as well as I am really trying to be a sponge at this point and learn as much as I can before I get my wallet out. I am sure you are right about just starting out with a custom action and building something from the ground up. In the end I know I will end up with a superior product. I am not going to part with this rifle though... Simply because it was my first firearm.
I completely agree with you that a 6.5cm is an easy choice to start out with. I can buy ammo or roll my own but the fact of the matter is, I can't shoot well enough to tell the difference. I sent an email to the smith I will be using yesterday with some questions and I am waiting to hear back from him now. I am sure that he will suggest the same thing. Maybe that is the route to take... turn this action into another "hunter" and just build a gun from the ground up to get into comps with.
Just a foot note.... It is a lot easier for my wife to accept that I am rebuilding a rifle I already own that it is for her to accept that I am buying a new one. LOL
Thanks again!
Rusty, Barney is correct about the long/short action differences. If the PRS (precision rifle shooting) matches is what you intend to do with this rifle, ditch the LA and .284 idea. These matches are time based most the time and different shooting positions. Recoil and weight are huge disadvantages as well a longer bolt throw. A 6mm or 6.5 is best, I would say a barrel diameter no bigger then .83 varmint and the must is detach mag. My match gun is a 6X (older 6xc) and I love it out to 1000. It flat shoots. I don't have a detach mag, it kills me, and my barrel is .93 and that kills me too. I'm working on changing both those errors. If you plan on using this gun for hunting, I wouldn't go bigger then .75. Most match guys run varmint and under barrels. You can go fluted for better heat disapation and weight reduction, but don't know if its worth the $ for reasons.
Sounds like a 6.5cm shooting 140 amax fits this scenario for match/hunting if you were selling the L/A for a S/A.
Like I stated previously, I run a 6mm in S/A for comps. Then, I'm building a fun steel shooting gun and occasional hunting gun on a L/A in .284...not a comp gun and it never will. The LA was my first rifle I bought and I was 15 so that's why I won't sell it and get a sa for a 6.5 and I already have a comp gun.
Sounds like a 6.5cm shooting 140 amax fits this scenario for match/hunting if you were selling the L/A for a S/A.
Like I stated previously, I run a 6mm in S/A for comps. Then, I'm building a fun steel shooting gun and occasional hunting gun on a L/A in .284...not a comp gun and it never will. The LA was my first rifle I bought and I was 15 so that's why I won't sell it and get a sa for a 6.5 and I already have a comp gun.
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Guys, I really appreciate all of the opinions and information everyone has posted. However, over the weekend everything has changed. I have decided to shelve this project for now and build from the ground up (even got the wife's blessing!).
That being said, I am going to build a short action comp gun. The long action will be a project for another day.
I am sure I will need opinions on the new project as I haven't done much homework on some of the short action calibers.
Thanks again everyone for your input!
That being said, I am going to build a short action comp gun. The long action will be a project for another day.
I am sure I will need opinions on the new project as I haven't done much homework on some of the short action calibers.
Thanks again everyone for your input!
