Rifle Scopes Premier Reticles-gone, but no close out pricing.

[pawprint2]

As I understand it, Premier Reticles, is no longer a business, yet, some companies offering the PR products haven't had a "gone out of business" sale. I'll bet getting service on a scope from a company that no longer is in business, may be a touch harder than getting service from a flourishing producer. This alone should cause the price to drop, on the "new in stock" scopes. The used PR scopes should see a nose dive in value, unless they are being held for their potential collectors value (in 100+ years)! The new owners say they will service the old PR scopes, but one must wonder, for how long, and will it be "free lifetime" or rather, "Yes, we can service that scope, send it in, we'll give you an estimate on the repair cost"? In any case, the PR scopes held by dealers are just begging for a "close out" sale.

 

[netranger6]

That's too bad. Their scopes rock.

 

[ZombieMonkey]

Their assets were acquired by Tangent Theta who will be honoring warranty and service as if they were their own scopes. Should be good news to those with Premier scopes. Would love to get my hands on one of the new Tangent Theta scopes for some T&E. Unfortunately their prices have gone up as many are in the industry.

 

[65guys_steve]

As I understand it, Premier Reticles, is no longer a business, yet, some companies offering the PR products haven't had a "gone out of business" sale. I'll bet getting service on a scope from a company that no longer is in business, may be a touch harder than getting service from a flourishing producer. This alone should cause the price to drop, on the "new in stock" scopes. The used PR scopes should see a nose dive in value, unless they are being held for their potential collectors value (in 100+ years)! The new owners say they will service the old PR scopes, but one must wonder, for how long, and will it be "free lifetime" or rather, "Yes, we can service that scope, send it in, we'll give you an estimate on the repair cost"? In any case, the PR scopes held by dealers are just begging for a "close out" sale.

This isn't entirely accurate. According to the information that anyone can research on the internet, On January 11th it was announced that Premier Reticles was acquired and is now a business division of Tangent Theta Incorporated. Premier Products will continue to be distributed by Armament Technology and its worldwide network of dealers. Service will continue to be provided by the Premier Service Center in Winchester, VA.

I wouldn't be too alarmed, businesses are often bought and sold. Look at many of the famous name brands in the industry that have gone through numerous spin-offs, divestitures, and acquisitions. Premier will still be around, it will be interesting too see if Tangent Theta will continue to invest in R&D and new product development to retain their standing among elite scope brands.

 

[azimutha]

That's technically correct but otherwise completely wrong. Premier's intellectual property and engineering got bought by a Canadian company ATI, which formed Tangent Theta. And they've also retained Paul Lange to service Premier scopes "until he dies" in the U.S. The TT scopes are very similar to their predecessor models in the Premier line but have new turrets and the mechanicals have been re-engineered too. I'd suggest browsing through this section of the forum a bit more. You'll end up better informed on the status of both companies. I can, however, see that it might be hard to sell the "new in stock" Premiers. Not because of the erroneous reasons cited, but because the TTs are improved.

 

[Fitz]

I wouldn't be too alarmed, businesses are often bought and sold. Look at many of the famous name brands in the industry that have gone through numerous spin-offs, divestitures, and acquisitions. Premier will still be around, it will be interesting too see if Tangent Theta will continue to invest in R&D and new product development to retain their standing among elite scope brands.

I don't know if that's entirely true either when you consider the fact #4 from Orkan's Tangent Theta thread.

"Fact #4 - Premier Reticles is history. That means completely, and likely for all eternity. The way they did business, the attitude they had, and the products they shipped, all of it has been addressed or is currently being addressed by Tangent Theta. This does not mean owners of Premier scopes are going to be left out in the cold. Tangent Theta will warranty every single Premier product as if it were a TT product. This means if your Premier scope fails, you can get it fixed via Tangent Theta as if it were theirs. That means they will service anything with the Premier name on it, regardless of when or where it was purchased. "

 

[65guys_steve]

Premier Reticles-gone, but no close out pricing.

Fitz - thanks for referring me back to orkan 's thread on Tangent Theta. . I think I'm caught up now, a lot of good info on the new TT scopes. They look sweet!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Magnumdood]

Doesn't surprise me

I don't know if that's entirely true either when you consider the fact #4 from Orkan's Tangent Theta thread.

"Fact #4 - Premier Reticles is history. That means completely, and likely for all eternity. The way they did business, the attitude they had, and the products they shipped, all of it has been addressed or is currently being addressed by Tangent Theta. This does not mean owners of Premier scopes are going to be left out in the cold. Tangent Theta will warranty every single Premier product as if it were a TT product. This means if your Premier scope fails, you can get it fixed via Tangent Theta as if it were theirs. That means they will service anything with the Premier name on it, regardless of when or where it was purchased. "

The position Premier finds itself in doesn't surprise me in the least. One of the core members of Premier once bought an optic from me at a radically reduced price because I needed the funds. This all occurred before Premier announced they would be making rifle scopes. It was somewhat of a rarity as scopes went; it was a USO with a 40mm tube and an 80mm 0bjective. He got it for less than half its value. I never had a chance to even peer through it much. I had to sell it because I had a tax bill due and we all understand how forgiving and patient the IRS is with monies "owed" to the US treasury.

He was like a giddy schoolgirl when he bought it. Months later, when I had recovered from the setback, I contacted him in an attempt to buy my scope back. He said he would sell it back to me...for double what he paid. I was completely taken aback, and exclaimed that he only paid $XXXX.00 for it. He acknowledged that, but said the price that day was $XXXX.00. He was very cold and distant. I understand that he was under no obligation to allow me to purchase my optic back for what he paid, but it is not an uncommon practice to allow a fellow board member the first shot at reacquiring especially a scope/rifle...for the price they paid for it. Maybe my expectations were too high regarding the camaraderie shared by this board's members. Not everyone follows that practice - the are many profiteers that comb the "for sale" forums every day looking for smoking hot deals they can "flip" and later make a tidy profit on the resale. I know Dick Thomas would have given me the chance to purchase the scope for what I'd sold it to him for. Well, enough of the "poor me" BS. If he had input into running Premier, and I'm certain he did, I can understand how they got themselves in a bind. On a personal note - other than missing Dick Thomas, I won't lose any sleep over Premier's demise.

 

[BlkZ06]

^ That's messed up.

And while he did not have any obligation to sell you the scope back at what he paid for it, the least he could of done was either mark it up 10% and offer it back or make it somewhat reasonable.

But at twice the price?

 

[Bass Ackwardz]

Discounting the price of what's left of in stock Premier scopes would certainly put those us who still own one or more in a huge bind. I am glad they are not going to discount them because when I try to sell a scope that is still an excellent optic on a forum such as this, I might actually be able to get a bit of money out of it. This is no different than the people who have AIAX's that they are trying to move after the huge price drop from some retailers.

Bill

 

[427Cobra]

I hope PLange is still employed, he's a good guy who I consider a friend.

 

[pawprint2]

This isn't entirely accurate. According to the information that anyone can research on the internet, On January 11th it was announced that Premier Reticles was acquired and is now a business division of Tangent Theta Incorporated. Premier Products will continue to be distributed by Armament Technology and its worldwide network of dealers. Service will continue to be provided by the Premier Service Center in Winchester, VA.

I wouldn't be too alarmed, businesses are often bought and sold. Look at many of the famous name brands in the industry that have gone through numerous spin-offs, divestitures, and acquisitions. Premier will still be around, it will be interesting too see if Tangent Theta will continue to invest in R&D and new product development to retain their standing among elite scope brands.

Yes indeed, a little research on the net would be well advised!!!! I don't know where you are getting your info, but I believe you should take your own advice. I can not find where TT will still be manufacturing and selling PR scopes world wide, or even state wide, however; they may be selling off any of the existing old, un-improved stock to a few wholesalers, that would be in keeping with my thoughts regarding "close-out, no longer manufactured" pricing. I am well aware, as is almost everyone on this board, that there are spin-offs, and new owners, divestitures, acquisitions, etc. etc., however; this in now way addresses the continued mfg of the PR scope line, not at all. Please post where TT has stated it will continue to mfg the PR line and be sellingl it world wide, I am unable to find that fact. I'm sure you were able to find it, or you wouldn't be posting such a well informed response. Thanks in advance.

 

[zac_c]

Priemier scopes are great scopes I have one and hope to own some more!

 

[65guys_steve]

Yes indeed, a little research on the net would be well advised!!!! I don't know where you are getting your info, but I believe you should take your own advice. I can not find where TT will still be manufacturing and selling PR scopes world wide, or even state wide, however; they may be selling off any of the existing old, un-improved stock to a few wholesalers, that would be in keeping with my thoughts regarding "close-out, no longer manufactured" pricing. I am well aware, as is almost everyone on this board, that there are spin-offs, and new owners, divestitures, acquisitions, etc. etc., however; this in now way addresses the continued mfg of the PR scope line, not at all. Please post where TT has stated it will continue to mfg the PR line and be sellingl it world wide, I am unable to find that fact. I'm sure you were able to find it, or you wouldn't be posting such a well informed response. Thanks in advance.

Pawprint, relax brother. I think if you go back and carefully reread my post you quoted you won't find the word 'manufacturing' anywhere. The information I found online was almost a copy/paste from the TT website news release and info from ATI's website as well. If you haven't done so, I also recommend reading Orkan's thread on Tangent Theta that Fitz pointed us too up above, as it provides a lot of good info I wasn't aware of when I made my first post on this thread. You'll find out that TT will stand behind the Premier Scopes that are out there (or in current dealer inventories) with warranty service.

 

[RyeDaddy]

I hope PLange is still employed, he's a good guy who I consider a friend.

He is, spoke to him and he said he will be there forever in VA to handle PR repairs and whatever comes up. He is a great guy and an asset.

 

[Magnumdood]

^ That's messed up.

And while he did not have any obligation to sell you the scope back at what he paid for it, the least he could of done was either mark it up 10% and offer it back or make it somewhat reasonable.

But at twice the price?

While I wouldn't have been jumping with joy at forking over extra cash, I agree, 10%, even 15%, over what HE paid would have been a reasonable price to ask.

 

[jakelly]

Seems to be quite a few Premiers showing up in the optics for sale section, and prices seem a couple hundred lower than pre-SHOT.

 

[10fp]

I paid 2000 new for my 3-15 heritage when they came out and 2450 for my 5-25, I see people trying to sell them for more used makes little sense. I traded both for USOs but I would totally pick up another one for 1700 or so.

 

[bas402]

I hope PLange is still employed, he's a good guy who I consider a friend.

He IS!!!

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

I paid 2000 new for my 3-15 heritage when they came out and 2450 for my 5-25, I see people trying to sell them for more used makes little sense. I traded both for USOs but I would totally pick up another one for 1700 or so.

You'll have to wait until Tangent Theta bails out of supporting Premier before they hit that price point....though I suspect they wouldn't even fetch $1700 should that happen.

Used durable goods increase in price and "rise with the tide" as new ones increase in price.

If TT truly supports PR scopes, their value will only go up.

 

[orkan]

Tangent Theta is committed to supporting Premier scopes as if they are their own branded scopes. The people involved here are of impeccable integrity, and I would not hesitate trusting their word. ... and I quote Andy Webber, President of Tangent Theta: "We will honor the lifetime warranty on Premier branded rifle scopes as if they were built by Tangent Theta." Me: "So, lifetime. Does this mean transferable lifetime that moves with the scope? A 'forever' warranty?" Andy: "Yes, if it says Tangent Theta or Premier on the scope, we will warranty that scope forever."

It is for this reason that you will not be seeing new Premier's still in stock being discounted in a "going out of business" sale. Their value today, is what it was before Tangent Theta announced their new scopes. The higher price of the TT scopes, and the fact that the TT scopes have better features, means they really aren't competing directly with the Premier brand. We still have Premier's in stock, and we've still been selling them. The Premier Light Tactical's we have at $2200 are still considerably cheaper than the $2998 required to own an M-series TT scope. Point in fact, we experienced an influx of Premier sales after the TT scopes were announced, because new Premier's are a finite resource. Once they are gone, they are gone... and after that if you want an externally adjustable tool-less zero stop, you're only option will be a TT at a much higher price.

It may seem odd, but with a company like ATI behind the scopes, the Premier brand is actually stronger than it ever has been. So while they will not be manufacturing any new Premier-branded products, at least there is finally some stability that has not existed with these Premier scopes since their introduction. That really is pretty exciting for anyone that owns a Premier.

 

[Ranger822]

I want to jump in here about the customer service side. One again Paul Lange shines - I sent an e-mail this morning because of a turret issue and was concerned. Before I had completed going thru my e-mail on my computer, Paul gave me call, walked me thru a few simple steps and I was up and running - no mess, no fuss, no attitude, just great Premier number #1 service - and best of all no charge. Anyone hesitating because there are some doubts about what Tangent Theta is or about or the future for Premier scope owners shouldn't be too worried. Thanks again Bill (Bass Ackwards) for a great scope.

 

[EasternNChunter]

I am happy to hear this. I bought a Premier Light Tactical for hunting and absolutely love the scope!

 

[vivo]

I paid 2000 new for my 3-15 heritage when they came out and 2450 for my 5-25, I see people trying to sell them for more used makes little sense. I traded both for USOs but I would totally pick up another one for 1700 or so.

I would but them all at $1700 each. Considering what there is on the market at that price point, $1700 is a no brainer for a PR.

 

[knockemdown]

BUMP from the past, for current Premier owners to reference...

 

[Redmanss]

Yep, this thread is full of ambitious expectations from the past, but life is full of cold, hard reality. I just hope Paul lands (or landed) on his feet following his departure from PH/TT.

 

[pmclaine]

Nice DT 3-15 in the PX a few days ago for $2K. If you pretty much use your rifles like I do - Shooting from a bench, some prone when time allows, a class or two a year - than you get a hell of a great scope that you will never have an issue with.

I know I'm lame I wish I pushed my rifles more like the tools they are but I'm doing what time and family currently allow.

If I was a comp guy running, gunning, obstacles greater potential for damage, than Id go another route.

I love my ST 3-15, goes with my USMC themed rifles, solid piece of gear.

[IMG2=JSON]{"alt":"Raven Rifles .308 an M40\/A1\/A3\/A5ish","data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/www.snipershide.com\/shooting\/filedata\/fetch?photoid=6255031"}[/IMG2]

 

[jbailey]

I just hope Paul lands (or landed) on his feet following his departure from PH/TT.

+1 to that. He was a valuable asset to Premier, hope he lands on a smooth path.

 

[Glassaholic]

+1 to that. He was a valuable asset to Premier, hope he lands on a smooth path.

I don't know about Paul, seems like he's too valuable an asset to not be picked up. Chris Thomas is now working with Revic. http://revic.us/

Frank gave a short review on the Scout site after SHOT 2017 - http://www.scout.com/military/sniper...rprise-product

 

[NateVA]

I could have swore that there's a thread on Scout about TT only warrantying certain Premier scopes. It had to be one that was distributed through a certain vendor, TT doesn't warranty ALL of the Premier scopes according to all the people in that thread. Which is it? Does TT warranty all or only some?

 

[Mute]

I could have swore that there's a thread on Scout about TT only warrantying certain Premier scopes. It had to be one that was distributed through a certain vendor, TT doesn't warranty ALL of the Premier scopes according to all the people in that thread. Which is it? Does TT warranty all or only some?

The post from Scout stated that TT will only service Premier scopes sold through ATI.

 

[jbailey]

The post from Scout stated that TT will only service Premier scopes sold through ATI.

yes, that is one of the epic threads of the Scout site. I'm sure the TT folks are glad that Scout is ending so that thread might not get the eyeballs it was getting. Think the thread opened lots of eyes and really turned off some people.