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Solid beginner's bolt gun for learning shoot long range?

Yellowhammer

Sergeant of the Hide
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 9, 2018
333
66
North Alabama
I've never owned a bolt gun before. I'm thinking about wading into the hobby...maybe take a beginner's class somewhere.

What is the "Colt 6920" of bolt guns? Nothing too crazy for a noob but solid reputation and a good starter gun?

My one knowledgeable friend says either get a 6.5C or a .308 FWIW.
 
Best place to get a Tikka CTR? I have a retired .mil ID is any kind of .mil program for their stuff.

Give EuroOptics a call. They might be able to give you a discount. If you dont want the wait or the ffl transfer fee, call around to some local shops to see if they have any in stock (basspro/cabelas)
 
Also, I strongly suggest get the 6.5Creedmoor. I started on 6.5, my friend started on .308, neither of us handload. After comparing ammo availability, performance, prices, we pretty much agreed 6.5 was the better choice. No downsides to it, just better performance. Same price and availability. Less recoil. Etc... He's going to change his rifle out to a 6.5 when he gets the money. I would start on 6.5 and save yourself some dough down the road. Very glad I did.

Tikka CTR 24 inch barrel version of the 6.5 is a solid choice. Also the Ruger RPR 6.5. If you like the chassis on the Ruger, go Ruger, if you want to customize your stock later on, go Tikka. Both have a decent aftermarket to tap into, including match grade barrels from top-of-the-line gunsmiths for whenever you shoot your barrel out or if you find the factory accuracy unsatisfactory.
Bergara has a rifle at that price too but I have no experience with it. Im sure its also awesome though.
 
Local cabelas looks to be a winner for $999.

Not sure I want to start a caliber war but:

I'm not invested in either .308 or 6.5C currently. I do reload though.

I'm tempted to go .308 due to the shorter 20 inch bbl vs 24 on the Tikka 6.5C. I'd most likely be using suppressor so saving the 4 inches on the bbl would help. Is that bad rationale?
 
We must have been typing at the same time SSS. I see what your saying about the 6.5.

Any recommended 6.5C rifles with <24 inch bbl?
 
Awesome, thanks. That appears to be what I'm looking for. No idea why I'm thinking about doing this....lol

I don't have time for the hobbies I'm already into.
 
Awesome, thanks. That appears to be what I'm looking for. No idea why I'm thinking about doing this....lol

I don't have time for the hobbies I'm already into.

It’s always worth it to have one solid bolt rifle; like the old adage “Beware the man with one rifle...”.

That Tikka and a SWFA 10X would fit your budget and save you coin for some ammo.
 
What distance do you have available to shoot at? What distance will you mostly shoot at?

Im going to swim upsteam and recommend a 308, or even a .223, depending on your availanble range.

In either case, you will learn to read wind better and have a very long barrel life. Also in either case, I would get a Tikka T3 Varmint, add a murphy 20moa rail, drop it into a Bravo chassis, and call it a day. $1200 TOPS. room for mags and a bipod and rear bag. Or a sterk bolt handle and shroud.
 
Semi-locally we have the CMP marksmanship park that goes out to, IIRC, 600m. My private property I might can come up with a 300m lane but the hills & trees make it harder.
 
I could live with a .308; .223 seems like I'd paint myself into a corner with it. I look at the reloading costs for .308 vs 6.5C though.
 
I could live with a .308; .223 seems like I'd paint myself into a corner with it. I look at the reloading costs for .308 vs 6.5C though.

I don't really know what you mean, but ballistically (externally) it's about a wash with .223 and .308. Not literally, but for 300 yard shooting, with occasiommal 600 yard shooting, it just doesnt matter. .223 just has way less recoil. 73g Bergers or 77g smk, and you are gtg. I like 308 too, but less recoil makes learning easier.
 
If 600 is the farthest you’ll ever go then 223 is a lot more fun. It is an obvious handicap to bigger stuff but it’s a hell of a lot of fun. I shoot mine out to 600 way more then everything else combined.

If you want 1k though someday the 6.5 20” Tikka sounds like a winner if that’s what you like.
 
If 600 is the farthest you’ll ever go then 223 is a lot more fun. It is an obvious handicap to bigger stuff but it’s a hell of a lot of fun. I shoot mine out to 600 way more then everything else combined.

If you want 1k though someday the 6.5 20” Tikka sounds like a winner if that’s what you like.

That's kind of what I"m thinking. I've shot more .223 than I can count, of course none were out of a bolt gun. A 6.5 or .308 would give me options if I ever did want to shoot further. Plus a 6.5 can reach out there and still have enough juice to kill something if I ever luck out and get to go hunting out west or something.
 
Whoops i didnt know you wanted a shorter barrel. Luckily Tikka does offer a 20" CTR that would suit your needs. Both .308 and 6.5CM available.
If you know that you wont shoot past 600 yards, then you really cant go wrong with any of the mentioned calibers, but if you do want to push past 600 a ways, then i strongly recomend the 6.5. I just find it less of a hassle at 1000 yards, it makes things easier for me, therefor i get more hits, which in turn, makes me smile more!

BUT .308 can get the job done too. .223 at 600 yards gets a little hard for me to spot hits at. But you may have better eyes than me.
 
I was in your exact situation a year ago. Bought a 223 thinking it would be awesome, and it was a blast to shoot, but I got tired of it pretty quick and bought a 6.5. The 223 mid-range plinker is a great idea IMHO, but not if you only have one bolt gun. I sold mine and got a 6.5 CM.

Tikka CTR 6.5 CM is the very obvious answer. I have one with a 24" barrel. Just shot a local, informal match with it over the weekend and ended the match by hitting a 1/2 MOA target at 800 yards (4" square). There aren't a lot of $1k rifles that offer that kind of accuracy, and hitting that with a 223 is nearly impossible due to how much the wind blows it around, and just getting the 223 to stay stable at anything over 600 is somewhat of a task if the accuracy node on your rifle isn't pretty fast.

I will agree with others that 223 is a heck of a lot of fun, but if you're thinking about shooting at 600, you'll eventually shoot further more than likely, and the 6.5 is the best readily available tool for that.

PM me if you get the Tikka. I've got some loads I can send your way to get you going on handloading. The CTR is a ridiculous rifle for the money.

If you do want a 223, the Tikka Varmint 223 is a really good option. I think they run about $700-$800 and they have them in 1:8 twist so you can run the heavies.
 
Pick up a inexpensive 223 or 308. If you stick with it long enough to burn the barrel out, you’ll learn everything you need to know. If you don’t stick with it your not out much. Cheap and effective experience beats buying a super wind defying barrel burner everyday.
You can’t buy fundamentals. That’s the difference between hits and misses.
 
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Pick up a inexpensive 223 or 308. If you stick with it long enough to burn the barrel out, you’ll learn everything you need to know. If you don’t stick with it your not out much. Cheap and effective experience beats buying a super wind defying barrel burner everyday.
You can’t buy fundamentals. That’s the difference between hits and misses.
What's the benefit of a 308 over a 6.5 for someone buying their first bolt gun?
 
Barrel life. That’s the ONLY benefit to .308 over 6.5.

If it was me I would get a 6.5 with at least a 24” barrel. I run my 26” barrel suppressed. When your in the prone it doesn’t matter how long your gun is.

A 20” 6.5 would give up too much velocity for me and what I do with my rifle. Out to 1300 yard shots for me. 1k least once a month.
 
Benefits included the following.
Barrel life is longer.
Infinitely more available loaded ammo in stores or online.
Quality reloading supplies are more comminly found.
Lapua Brass has never been an issues for me to get for 308 or 223.
Horniday brass is overpriced garbage. You will find this out quickly if you reload a lot. Yes there are others available now and lapua soon to follow. But till then...
Reloading for 308 or 223 is as simple as it gets.
Countless powders and bullets can be used for outstanding preformance.
Most importantly you will have to learn wind as the above noted rounds are more effected than the 6.5. This will come in handy when you start pushing Shots at distance.
Good on you for seeing through the long barrel dogma. Buy a Kestrel or other such devise. Once you plug your numbers in and true the algorithm, you’ll never go back to long barrels.
FYI I like the 6.5CM too. I have a 18” that’s amazing. I also have long barrel rifles, they don’t get shot much. Not hating on any path you take. Just my experience. Remember, a day at the range gains you more knowledge that a week reading forums.
 
Benefits included the following.
Barrel life is longer.
Infinitely more available loaded ammo in stores or online.
Quality reloading supplies are more comminly found.
Lapua Brass has never been an issues for me to get for 308 or 223.
Horniday brass is overpriced garbage. You will find this out quickly if you reload a lot. Yes there are others available now and lapua soon to follow. But till then...
Reloading for 308 or 223 is as simple as it gets.
Countless powders and bullets can be used for outstanding preformance.
Most importantly you will have to learn wind as the above noted rounds are more effected than the 6.5. This will come in handy when you start pushing Shots at distance.
Good on you for seeing through the long barrel dogma. Buy a Kestrel or other such devise. Once you plug your numbers in and true the algorithm, you’ll never go back to long barrels.
FYI I like the 6.5CM too. I have a 18” that’s amazing. I also have long barrel rifles, they don’t get shot much. Not hating on any path you take. Just my experience. Remember, a day at the range gains you more knowledge that a week reading forums.

You may want to update your knowledge...Lapua brass for CM has been out a while now...
 
308 - The trick is too stay with higher BC bullets and as much speed as you can get away with and still be in a node, but with a short barrel that will always be a limitation. Out west here where I live, I've had myself, and seen others, experience some miserable times in windy condition's. In other words it was extremely hard to hit steel, either hitting just off to the left or right, and just mentioning these were in field conditions with only natural indicators.

As much as I try to like my 40x 308 bolt rifle I just can't get enthused about it??!! It's even a heavy rifle with a long barrel. Thinking hard about re barreling it to 6mmBR or.... For me basically, 308 is a lot of recoil for no benefit that I can find appreciation for, except barrel life and that's not worth it to me.

Recently did a 223AI with 88's at .545BC at 2800 fps. It slightly outperforms my 308 load in the wind but the recoil is so light it's just a pleasure to shoot. Self spotting is way easier off a bench without muzzle brakes on either rifle and it's cheaper to shoot.

My vote in your quandary is the CTR in 6.5.
 
6.5 Creedmoor. Tikka CTR. I'd honestly go with the 24" to get a little extra speed. I wish they made the .260 in a 24". The Howa HCR is very nice as well.
 
Everyone needs a good solid bolt 223. But for what your wanting a 6.5CM w 24”bbl would be my recommendation also. Get that 223 next
 
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... from one relative noob to another... The Howa 308 or 6.5 Creed inside 800 it's ehh... Past 800 Creed wins... I think there is some value to learning on a 308... It's a pig in the wind...but if you want to hit the easy button, 6.5 creed
 
For 600, I like the 223. I used to recommend the Savage 11VT from Dick's but I won't do anything from Dick's anymore; so I'll take a guess and suggest the Savage 10T from Cabelas as being the effective equivalent rifle. For Optics, I suggest the Mueller 8-32x44, and Vortex Medium 30mm 6-Screw rings. This Mueller can resolve 22 caliber bullet holes at 250-300yd.

I'd say you're looking at about $900 for each setup. All of these items exist in my own inventory and have been in use for years without issues, so I can recommend them with high confidence. They represent almost two decades of experimentation intended to find a reliable entry level system.

I have two identical setups, a 223 and a 308, and despite the low cost, these are excellent beginner level training systems. They also quality for 600yd and 1000yd F T/R. Just add a bipod and it's ready for formal F Class Competition.

The 223 likes the HDY 75grain HPBT-Match and 23.7 gr of Varget, the .308 likes the Sierra 175gr Matchking and 42.2gr of IMR-4064. These are mild enough loads to spare the bores for a longer life, accurate, and adequate for the distances. These are what I think of as 'bread and butter' loads, plenty good enough for consistent performance while sparing both bore and wallet; and they leave some room to move up in performance when your own performance is up to that level.

The 223 is my recommendation because it's very economical to shoot a lot, which will be your first priority. It will be working harder at 600yd than the 6.5CM or the 308, and that's not so bad a situation when you're learning the wind.

Yes, velocity and BC can cheat the wind; but the more you cheat the wind, the less you learn from it. Learn on the basic load, and excel when you shoot the high precision stuff.

For beyond 700-800yd, the .308 will step up to the plate just fine; and the two can be shot in F T/R Comp to get your feet wet in formal competition. By the time you've wrung all of the potential out of these rifles, you'll be well qualified to move up to something more complex. With the Savage 308, you can spin on a second drop in barrel chambered for 6.5CM, and be ready for F Open.

Honestly, I think it'd be a shame subjecting a highly refined rifle to that beginner's learning stage. When you do move up, these rifle(s) will probably still have a bunch of life left in them and serve nicely as practice/trainers.

Greg

PS 7/28/18 Edited to add:

Rifling twists (and to a smaller degree, barrel lengths) are critical to longer range performance.

The bullets we like for longer distances tend to be longer (and consequently, heavier). In the .224 bore diameter, I have chosen the Hornady 75gr HPBT-Match, mainly because it works so well in the 1:9"twist, and I have been doing the bulk of my load development work as an effort to produce a generic MR/LR load for 24" barrels of both 1:9" and 1:8" twists (not as hard as I had expected; 75gr HPBT-M, 23.7gr Varget, BR-4, Starline Brass). Since I use it solely in my 24" length barrels, I can't say with certainty that it will work in that twist at significantly shorter barrel lengths, and there is some discussion suggesting it (the bullet, not the load) may not. I can't confirm or deny that. For altitudes below 4000ft, I have used 24.4gr of Varget at 600yd (and 1500ft) with moderate success. I would not try a longer bullet in 1:9", and have shied away from even the 75gr A-Max for that reason after reading several anecdotal reports that it wouldn't stabilize in 1:9" barrels.

Two of my 24" barrels are 1:8" twist and handle the 75 HPBT-M just as well. If I were to shoot 80grain or heavier/longer, I would be looking for the 1:7" twist, which will work, but may be faster than ideal for some of the (less) heavies. I have a new 16" 1:7" barrel and will be trying bullet weights of up to 77gr in it soon. I seriously doubt that there will be stability issues.

There is some thinking that a bullet may shoot at its best when it gets close to being too long/heavy for a twist. I have been trying that and not seeing much to disagree with it (i.e the 75 HPBT-M in 1:9").

Slower twists, like 1:10" and 1:12", are holdovers from days when lightweight bullets were the norm. The varmint rifles sometimes still have them, but they are less well suited for longer distances since they cannot stabilize bullet weights above 55gr-60gr.
 
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<-- Rifle in my pic here is a 20" CTR in 260. As an only rifle, I'd recommend this wholeheartedly in a 20" 6.5 creedmoor just for the better case design and factory ammo options.
 
6.5cm gets my vote, but I also agree with .223 it isn’t a bolt gun , but I’ve ran my crp to 1k running 77gr smks and it was a hell of a lot of fun
 
I’m in the same boat as you Yellowhammer. I’ve never really done any long range shooting with a bolt gun. I’m hoping the John Hancock, in 6.5 Creedmoor, will be the perfect rifle for learning precision long distance shooting. I have one on order. I just hope I live long enough to get to shoot it. ?
 
I love Tikka. I love shooting .223- more rounds, less recoil, more fun in general

BUT... past 500 yards, it gets harder to see hits (steel doesn't swing or sing like a fat .308) and on windy days I don't shoot past 300 because it's just playing the lottery

Not what you'll compete with, but you'll enjoy a lot more experience and time shooting $0.25 bulk 55gr .223 rounds while learning to shoot vs. $1.20+ per round shooting 6.5CM

After 2 thousand rounds, you'll have a better idea of what you might want/like in a bolt gun.

Then go all in and get a REALLY good bolt gun like a decked out custom, AI, or (save money and) get a Tikka

If shooting for accuracy you'll need to spend for match ammo or roll your own, which will cost.

If learning, .308 can be had for $0.50/rd for clean surplus ammo. Hard to find the same for 6.5. And the barrel life on a .308 is at least double. Barrel are consumables, but they aren't cheap.

Don't spend big off the bat. Get something budget to start and see how much you like it first.
 
Just in the FWIW category, I was shooting a .223 at 643 yards last weekend. No problem seeing or hearing hits. No problem getting them either:)

Since the OP said 300 yards normally, and only out to 600 sometimes, .223 is the no brainer. Now, if he wants hunting stuff too, then whatever floats his boat.
That's kind of what I"m thinking. I've shot more .223 than I can count, of course none were out of a bolt gun. A 6.5 or .308 would give me options if I ever did want to shoot further. Plus a 6.5 can reach out there and still have enough juice to kill something if I ever luck out and get to go hunting out west or something.

Buying guns based on "might be able to do", vs. what you actually do with them, always leads to dissatisfaction ime. It sounds like most of your shooting will actually be at less then 300 yards. You asked for what you should learn on, not a do everything rifle, which often does nothing except sit in the safe. just my opinion, having been down this road many times.
 
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To add to the above, since I seem to have too much time on my hands for the minute...

If you get a Tikka, and you like it, then you are done. If you want to improve it, and drop it in a chassis, then you are still done for relatively little money. After you shoot the heck out of the .223, if you are still interested in this stuff, and if you get lucky and go hunt out west, then you can always buy another T3 in 6.5 or whatever, and simply drop it into the chassis you already have. $600-750, plus $125 for a murphy rail. You can swap the scope over from the .223. Now you have your long range setup for beyond 600 or for your hunt. I don't believe in LR hunting, and I like to travel on foot with everything, so my LR guns don't go hunting with me very often, but that's me.

If you get the 308 to start with, then you really don't need another gun, but LEARNING on the .223 is the prime issue here. Shooting precision rifles to an ok level is very easy. Shooting them at a high level is not. Most people would be better off spending more time with a .223 or even a .22. Once you burn out your .223 barrel, if your interest last that long, you will be a good shooter. Just get some good instruction up front so you don't bring any bad habits over to it.
 
I appreciate the input. I got momentarily distracted but coming back to this and catching up now. Local cabelas was out of stock on the Tikka (wanted to see one in person).

Still looking at either a .308 or 6.5. I think I've spent too much time struggling to get .223 cases unstuck from my sizing die and it's causing me to subconsciously hate it lol.
 
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I appreciate the input. I got momentarily distracted but coming back to this and catching up now. Local cabelas was out of stock on the Tikka (wanted to see one in person).

Still looking at either a .308 or 6.5. I think I've spent too much time struggling to get .223 cases unstuck from my sizing die and it's causing me to subconsciously hate it lol.

LOL, I was having this "223 getting stuck in Lee die" problem for many years (I'm stubborn) , it's in the trash now and I'm ordering a Dillon carbide sizer soon to eliminate that problem. Of course if I stopped picking up that free brass on the ground....

Recently trying out 223AI. Yuh know those 88 grain Hornady's/.545BC at 2800 fps do pretty good in the wind. Only 24.5 grains of Varget, medium load, very light recoil and that 981Y 15" plate needs a paint job real bad now.
 
FWIW, I have the RPR in .308 and can’t say enough good about it. Love this rifle. 3000 rounds on the factory barrel and I’m still seeing 1/2 MOA accuracy. However, I do see a guy here and there at the 1000 yard line who shoots an AI .223 using 80 gr bullets (while I’m there slinging 190 SMKs).
 
I was just in the same boat. Getting into hobby and after a ton of research I decided to go with b14 hmr in 6.5
 
Don't get a 308 unless barrel life is your highest priority. A 6.5 Creedmoor is better in every way. It's 2018.