Procedure for cleaning AR barrel? I think I've done fudged up.

[Srikaleak]

Getting ready to shoot my AR10 for the first time. Doing some prelim barrel cleaning. Bore brush doesn't fit and chamber brush got stuck so I had to yank both of em out. Pretty sure I've done fucked up my throat. Brush didn't even get to the rifling I don't think. Been softly cleaning with JB bore and Hoppes bore cleaner with some patches.

What did I do wrong? Brushes are .25 chambered, chamber brush came with the rifle. It's a 6.5 Creedmoor JP rifle. I've spent the money on .22 cal dewey rod. It should have been perfect. Watched youtube vids too.

 

[longshot2000]

what barrel do you have? best advise is shot it and shoot it and shoot it some more, and the lead will clean it out.

 

[Srikaleak]

JP barrel. Thank God for your answer because that's what I intend to do.

 

[Precision Underground]

Getting ready to shoot my AR10 for the first time. Doing some prelim barrel cleaning. Bore brush doesn't fit and chamber brush got stuck so I had to yank both of em out. Pretty sure I've done fucked up my throat. Brush didn't even get to the rifling I don't think. Been softly cleaning with JB bore and Hoppes bore cleaner with some patches.

What did I do wrong? Brushes are .25 chambered, chamber brush came with the rifle. It's a 6.5 Creedmoor JP rifle. I've spent the money on .22 cal dewey rod. It should have been perfect. Watched youtube vids too.

Are we talking brass brushes?
Define “does not fit”. I can’t imagine a .25cal brush not going into a 6.5 barrel. I can imagine one getting very stuck if you try to reverse it once it enters the barrel.

Did you try spinning the chamber brush as you pulled it out?

Are you cleaning with JB bore paste before shooting the rifle?

Are you 100% positive you have a 6.5 and not a .223?

 

[Tx_Aggie]

Did JP sell you a cleaning rod guide with the rifle? If not, give them a call and order one. It's well worth the $43.

https://www.jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPRG-2

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Yet more evidence that cleaning barrels is a legitimate hazard and should be avoided...

 

[flyright]

Reversing a brass or bronze brush while in the bore is a no no. But, I've seen several occurrences of it and, after bore scoping, could not find any visible damage and the guns still shot the same as before. Barrel steel is tough. Don't worry about it. Don't do it any more. And, for Pete's sake, stop cleaning it. Push a couple of solvent patches through or spray a cleaner through to get the bore paste out and follow with a couple of dry patches. Shoot it for a while before attempting to clean it again. Then, use a proper bore guide and proper brush. It should be okay.

Back off on using bore paste for cleaning. I had a friend that experienced such great accuracy after we cleaned his coppered up barrel with a couple of passes of JB, he started using it every 50 rounds or so - unbeknownst to me. Accuracy went to shit so we scoped it again. Barrel was super clean but lands were rounded. I figured his 6.5 was now a 6.7. All IMHO...

 

[Srikaleak]

It's a factory JP LRP07 so guaranteed it's a 6.5. Says so on the barrel. Yea I think I'll stick with patches and solvents from now on.
As for the bore brush, I inserted it from the receiver side like the manual mentioned. As soon as I got it into the chamber it got "stuck". How much force does it take to push that through the barrel? It seemed like I was putting way too much effort and it didn't move at all. I only tried it once so damage should be minimal.
I'll be ordering the bore guide right now. I'll go find the thread that talked about best cleaners and solvents and order some based off that. Right now I've been using Hoppes 9.
The whole reason for this debacle is because I thought you had to clean a brand new rifle from the factory. I guess I put too much thought into that. I'm just gonna go shoot it. Will post results when I get back.

 

[Precisiondada]

By clean, they mean a damp patch and then a couple dry ones. Then I don’t touch them for a while

 

[308pirate]

cleaning barrels is a legitimate hazard and should be avoided...

Only if you're a complete fucking idiot.

 

[308pirate]

It's a factory JP LRP07 so guaranteed it's a 6.5. Says so on the barrel. Yea I think I'll stick with patches and solvents from now on.
As for the bore brush, I inserted it from the receiver side like the manual mentioned. As soon as I got it into the chamber it got "stuck". How much force does it take to push that through the barrel? It seemed like I was putting way too much effort and it didn't move at all. I only tried it once so damage should be minimal.
I'll be ordering the bore guide right now. I'll go find the thread that talked about best cleaners and solvents and order some based off that. Right now I've been using Hoppes 9.
The whole reason for this debacle is because I thought you had to clean a brand new rifle from the factory. I guess I put too much thought into that. I'm just gonna go shoot it. Will post results when I get back.

It does take some force to push a brand new brass brush through a bore. I can't quantify that. I've cleaned rifles hundreds of times over the years so it's something you feel.

Not using a bore guide is stupid. The rod probably bent a little and made the friction worse, but who knows, I wasn't there to watch you.

You can go ahead and follow the stupid advice to never clean a bore, or you can apply some common sense and learn how.

 

[padom]

Why are you bore brushing and JB pasting a new barrel? Also it may feel like a lot of pressure if you arent using a bore guide and your rod is bowing...

New barrels equal running 1 wet patch down the barrel just to ensure no metal shavings in the bore then dry patch it out. Then shoot it.

After 200-300rd I clean the bore by putting a few wet patch down the bore, then a pass with a brass brush that does not get pulled back through the muzzle then dry patch out.

I use Shooters Choice or Butchs Bore Shine. Stubborn carbon gets removed with Boretech C4 Carbon remover.

Now I do clean and oil my BCG after each range session, wipe out the upper and clean the chamber only.

 

[memilanuk]

Why are you bore brushing and JB pasting a new barrel?

It's not uncommon to see it recommended to clean a new barrel to get out whatever residual gunk might be left in the barrel from the factory, whether it's powder residue from test firing that's been sitting there god knows how long, under unknown conditions, or just leftover lube or preservative oil.

JB does seem a bit excessive though...

 

[Diver160651]

Funny thing I almost NEVER ever use a Bore bursh. I soak it a bit with Whipe Out and use patches..

I think we often over complicate things

 

[padom]

It's not uncommon to see it recommended to clean a new barrel to get out whatever residual gunk might be left in the barrel from the factory, whether it's powder residue from test firing that's been sitting there god knows how long, under unknown conditions, or just leftover lube or preservative oil.

JB does seem a bit excessive though...

If you read the rest of my post you quoted you would have ready I said I ALWAYS push a wet patch then dry patch out a new barrel to remove anything like metal shavings on new barrels....

Bore brush and JB...NO

 

[Srikaleak]

After Action Report:
So just got done with the range and it was a fucking disaster. Thought I'd sling my big dick around and try to zero the rifle at 100 yds straight off the bat and failed miserably. 50 rds wasted. Wasted two people's time. But a couple strangers got to shoot a sweet rifle so I'll notch it as a win.

Rifle performed admirably. Recoil was not as bad as I thought and when I lined up behind the rifle properly it felt sublime.

Gonna take it home and figure how to work the scope. Read the manual over again and figure out when it bottoms out and such. Then I'm gonna dryfire the fuck out of it. Practice lining up behind and getting proper cheek weld out of it.

Gotta lot of stuff to learn, it's gonna be fun.

P.S. As for JB and bore brush, it was recommended cleaning in the manual and JB was provided in the rifle package when I bought it.

 

[W54/XM-388]

After Action Report:
So just got done with the range and it was a fucking disaster. Thought I'd sling my big dick around and try to zero the rifle at 100 yds straight off the bat and failed miserably. 50 rds wasted. Wasted two people's time. But a couple strangers got to shoot a sweet rifle so I'll notch it as a win.
.

I've had days like that with an AR platform.
Came back home feeling like I had been shooting like a muslim all day.

 

[memilanuk]

50 rds and you still don't have it zeroed?!?

Do you not know how to bore-sight an AR at the range? Serious question, because if not, it's not that hard and we can get you lined out easily enough.

 

[Srikaleak]

I was rushing through it thinking it was going to be easy but it was slightly more involved. I'll take a little slower time next time. I think the biggest thing that screwed me was bottoming out on the turret. It was a used scope zeroed for another rifle prior to me getting it.

 

[memilanuk]

Pulling the bolt and looking down the bore is 'more involved'?

What kind of scope & mount are you using?

 

[kl3309]

Pulling the bolt and looking down the bore is 'more involved'?

What kind of scope & mount are you using?

I just recently saw a young man with a brand spankin' new DTA .308 and equally new Razor 4-27 attempting to bore-sight by sighting down the outside of the barrel, so yeah, for some folks it is a bit more involved.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Pulling the bolt and looking down the bore is 'more involved'?
What kind of scope & mount are you using?

I know you think it's like super easy and how could anyone possibly not know how to do it.

Till it happens to you when you have some weird scope / base / rings compound mess up..

Look down the bore, all good check scope cross hairs are where the bore is looking, all good
Pull trigger.... Not even on the giant backing board.

Pull it all apart, try it again with even more care.... Don't even know if you hit the berm....

That was the last time I ever messed with vertical split rings... and they were expensive Larue ones.

 

[memilanuk]

That was kinda why I was asking about the scope/mount... the whole 'bottomed out' thing is (unfortunately) familiar. Usually a scope with not enough range of adjustment for the amount of cant built into the rail, though I've had to deal with other causes too.

Yah know, I've seen some of the complaints about vertical split rings, and to be honest they kind of surprised me. I used Warne six-screw tactical rings for a while and love 'em. Not too spendy, and always worked great. Almost too well, they're kind of a bitch to loosen up and slide just a little bit with all those screws. But they absolutely were not going anywhere accidentally.

I realize that pulling the bolt on an AR and then trying to juggle the hinged upper/lower that wants to flop around like a fish out of water while you're trying to aim it is not an entirely natural act. There's a reason I usually try to remember to bring my Sinclair cleaning link when sighting in a new AR. Otherwise, I'll pull the charging handle and sit it across the lower like a wedge to keep the upper from flopping as much - it definitely helps.

 

[Islander]

A bore guide is very helpful but if the brush was brass I can't see how it would hurt your barrel.

 

[MtnCreek]

Did your 22 cal Dewey come with a 22 cal Parker hail jag? That with a 30 cal patch wrapped around it should be all you need. Use solvent, not an abrasive.

Assuming you're on paper at close range, shoot, measure impact vs aim with your reticle and adjust (i.e. Impact 2 mil low, add 2 mil to turret). Then increase distance and do it again.

Considering how throughly you screwed up cleaning and zeroing, might want to do your dryfiring at the range. At a min, do not have any mags or ammo in the same room if dryfiring at home.

 

[The DFC]

Been there and done that-the range part I mean. I had to do the shuffle of shame back to the 25yd bay and shoot at the giant white target with a dot in the middle. Saved a bunch ammo though and I learned my scope. Now I just start out at the 25 with anything new and waste more ammo at longer ranges cause I like to shoot.

 

[308pirate]

Pulling the bolt and looking down the bore is 'more involved'?

What kind of scope & mount are you using?

I don't think this guy has a single clue about what he's doing and obviously has no one who can mentor him in person.

I think things that are obvious to you and I are a complete mystery to him. I mean, how do you fuck up cleaning a rifle barrel?

 

[308pirate]

That was the last time I ever messed with vertical split rings... and they were expensive Larue ones.

LOL all my AR optics are in vertically split rings. I have never, EVER had a problem getting a zero and keeping a zero.

I know this place has a hard on against vertical rings, but I'm gonna keep using them.

 

[308pirate]

I realize that pulling the bolt on an AR and then trying to juggle the hinged upper/lower that wants to flop around like a fish out of water while you're trying to aim it is not an entirely natural act. There's a reason I usually try to remember to bring my Sinclair cleaning link when sighting in a new AR. Otherwise, I'll pull the charging handle and sit it across the lower like a wedge to keep the upper from flopping as much - it definitely helps.

Or you can just take the upper completely off the lower, lay it on the bench, block it off, and then bore sight it.

 

[pmclaine]

LOL all my AR optics are in vertically split rings. I have never, EVER had a problem getting a zero and keeping a zero.

I know this place has a hard on against vertical rings, but I'm gonna keep using them.

Squeakyleaks prior participation on the site has been as a socialist agitator.

Based on that it is safe to assume his intelligence is limited.

Lets assume he is seeking firearms knowledge in order to experience his Second Amendment rights and get an understanding and love for the Constitution and our freedoms

or.....

He is a member of the Phoenix John Brown Gun Club

 

[308pirate]

Gonna take it home and figure how to work the scope. Read the manual over again and figure out when it bottoms out and such. Then I'm gonna dryfire the fuck out of it. Practice lining up behind and getting proper cheek weld out of it.

You really need to back waaaay off and start from the very beginning. No offense, but you really sound like you've never owned a rifle in your life before and went jumping off the deep end right away.

I strongly suggest paying up for the online training here and start watching from the very beginning.

Since God only knows where your scope's erector mechanism is now, get it back to a rough center by doing this:

Bottom out the elevation in either direction (up or down, doesn't matter where you start). Once you bottom out, count the clicks it takes to bottom out in the other direction. Divide by two and move the elevation to rough center. Example: you drive the elevation all the way down till it won't go any more (don't force it) and then all the way up. Let's say it took 100 clicks to go from all the way down to all the way up. Once you find that, go back down 50 clicks and leave it there.

Repeat the same procedure with the windage.

Then repeat the procedure one more time. Don't worry if the number of clicks for full travel is a little more the second time. Once you do this procedure twice, the scope's erector tube (which is what moves the reticle up/dow/left/right) will be about as centered as a user can make it.

Then follow these directions to get your rifle zeroed://www.nrafamily.org/articles/2017/8/31/5-easy-steps-to-zero-your-ar-15/

Pro tip: when bore sighting, the knobs on the scope work counterintuitively. If the reticle is left of the aiming mark, you use the windage knob to move the point of impact left, which will move the reticle to the right.

 

[308pirate]

He is a member of the Phoenix John Brown Gun Club

That's fine. Based on the "training" I've seen from them they don't stand a chance anyway.

 

[flyright]

Man, I don't think he understands what using bore paste to turn a 6.5 into a 6.7 means, either. Leaks, please take some of the advice here and be very careful with your new JP. Good luck!

 

[Srikaleak]

So some of you guys nailed it in the head with what y'all said. Ive owned pistols for years but this is my very first rifle.

1. I didn't realize how abrasive JB bore paste was
2. I didn't have any kind of vice to hold rifle still so every time I tried to make an adjustment the whole rifle shifted. I was making a pitiful attempt to shoot, then track reticle to the hole.
4. The target was hilariously busy and I was throwing up little 6 inch reactive stickers because I had them and assumed it'd be easy. I'll buy some proper targets to do the job at hand.
3. @308pirate I will definitely do what you suggested, thanks! I was thinking the same thing on my way home.
4. @pmclaine Let it go and have a Happy Thanksgiving and Merry Xmas
5. I've been pinching pennies for classes from the get go but it doesn't seem in the descriptions of courses available near me that they offer rifle setup in their intro courses but I'll look further. If snipershide online training is comprehensive with the really beginner stuff I'll sign up.

This is the reason I joined the site and I truly appreciate all y'alls responses. I will follow the guidance and report back with the (hopefully better) results.

 

[pmclaine]

So some of you guys nailed it in the head with what y'all said. Ive owned pistols for years but this is my very first rifle.

1. I didn't realize how abrasive JB bore paste was
2. I didn't have any kind of vice to hold rifle still so every time I tried to make an adjustment the whole rifle shifted. I was making a pitiful attempt to shoot, then track reticle to the hole.
4. The target was hilariously busy and I was throwing up little 6 inch reactive stickers because I had them and assumed it'd be easy. I'll buy some proper targets to do the job at hand.
3. @308pirate I will definitely do what you suggested, thanks! I was thinking the same thing on my way home.
4. @pmclaine Let it go and have a Happy Thanksgiving and Merry Xmas
5. I've been pinching pennies for classes from the get go but it doesn't seem in the descriptions of courses available near me that they offer rifle setup in their intro courses but I'll look further. If snipershide online training is comprehensive with the really beginner stuff I'll sign up.

This is the reason I joined the site and I truly appreciate all y'alls responses. I will follow the guidance and report back with the (hopefully better) results.

Are you British? Just curious.

It is good you are interested in riflery.

I doubt you have done any permanent damage to anything other than your ego.

This is repairable, just slow down, ask first than act if unsure.

Scope setting is much easier if you start at the 25 yard line with a clean backer and target.

Should have bought an LMT - "Failure is not an option"

 

[memilanuk]

JB bore paste isn't *that* bad, unless you go full-metal retard with it. Flitz is actually worse

Just don't try cleaning until no more black comes out... cuz it won't ever happen. The 'black' stuff is the *metal* from your barrel... Probably best either used with a borescope, or in very small limited amounts on a semi-regular basis as part of an overall cleaning regimen. i.e. 'down the road'.

You don't really need a vise... a bipod and a rear bag will work.

Big paper is your friend, starting out. So is shorter distances (25, 50 yards) if your range has a sight-in range that will let you do that.

Unless you have a vise (or an F-class/BR style front rest) that holds the gun literally immobile, the whole 'wind the scope to the shot hole is a little iffy, in my experience. Learn to read the target. There's a reason a lot of the 'sight-in' targets have 1" grid lines on them. If your shot is 5" high and 4" left, you don't need to hold the gun in a vise and wind the reticle to the shot. Instead dial down 5" and 4" right (roughly). If your scope is in mils, then its on you to figure out how many inches are in a mil (3.6) and how many 0.1 mil clicks you need to use to move the point of impact accordingly. With a lot of mil scopes out there with the better reticles you can simply use them as calibrated rulers - look at the aiming point, and count/guesstimate on the reticle how many mils you need to adjust to get centered up.

Just takes a little practice

 

[MontanaMan]

Been there and done that-the range part I mean. I had to do the shuffle of shame back to the 25yd bay and shoot at the giant white target with a dot in the middle. Saved a bunch ammo though and I learned my scope. Now I just start out at the 25 with anything new and waste more ammo at longer ranges cause I like to shoot.

This is the way to start out with a new rifle & scope............the ONLY way. Just sayin'.

If it's a used scope, take the time to run both axis to the limits each direction & leave them set to the middle of the range.

Anything else is a a waste of time & ammo & will almost surely lead to frustration.

MM

 

[Srikaleak]

Since God only knows where your scope's erector mechanism is now, get it back to a rough center by doing this:

Bottom out the elevation in either direction (up or down, doesn't matter where you start). Once you bottom out, count the clicks it takes to bottom out in the other direction. Divide by two and move the elevation to rough center. Example: you drive the elevation all the way down till it won't go any more (don't force it) and then all the way up. Let's say it took 100 clicks to go from all the way down to all the way up. Once you find that, go back down 50 clicks and leave it there.

Repeat the same procedure with the windage.

Just FYI I have an ATACR F1 C618 (FC-Mil, 4-16x50). So I believe I've completed this step correctly. I've got equal (+/- 0.1) mil travel in both directions for both elevation and windage. Elevation: 17.2 mil up, 17.1 mil down; Windage: 5.6 mil R, 5.7 mil L.
From what I gather, my next steps are to:
1. Set target at 25 yards, boresight to target, take shots and make adjustments to zero at 25 yards.
2. Set target to 50 yards, take shots and make adjustments to zero at 50 yards.
3. Repeat at 100 yards.
4. Shoot for groups at 100 yards with current adjustments made from mechanical zero
5. If acceptable, set turret caps to zero and adjust zero stop.

 

[308pirate]

Just FYI I have an ATACR F1 C618 (FC-Mil, 4-16x50). So I believe I've completed this step correctly. I've got equal (+/- 0.1) mil travel in both directions for both elevation and windage. Elevation: 17.2 mil up, 17.1 mil down; Windage: 5.6 mil R, 5.7 mil L.
From what I gather, my next steps are to:
1. Set target at 25 yards, boresight to target, take shots and make adjustments to zero at 25 yards.
2. Set target to 50 yards, take shots and make adjustments to zero at 50 yards.
3. Repeat at 100 yards.
4. Shoot for groups at 100 yards with current adjustments made from mechanical zero
5. If acceptable, set turret caps to zero and adjust zero stop.

That would work pretty nicely

 

[pmclaine]

Just FYI I have an ATACR F1 C618 (FC-Mil, 4-16x50). So I believe I've completed this step correctly. I've got equal (+/- 0.1) mil travel in both directions for both elevation and windage. Elevation: 17.2 mil up, 17.1 mil down; Windage: 5.6 mil R, 5.7 mil L.
From what I gather, my next steps are to:
1. Set target at 25 yards, boresight to target, take shots and make adjustments to zero at 25 yards.
2. Set target to 50 yards, take shots and make adjustments to zero at 50 yards.
3. Repeat at 100 yards.
4. Shoot for groups at 100 yards with current adjustments made from mechanical zero
5. If acceptable, set turret caps to zero and adjust zero stop.

If you are on at 25 yards you should be within a few inches low at 100.

 

[MontanaMan]

If you are on at 25 yards you should be within a few inches low at 100.

Really ??????????????

MM

 

[pmclaine]

Really ??????????????

MM

Yes really.

If you zero a scope at 25 yards when you move to 100 yards you will be on paper within inches of your zero.

Im assuming center fire cartridges my proving of this in 5.56, .308, and 30-06.

Daisy Red Ryder probably wont prove true.

Im assuming you are using a properly sized sight in target perhaps 24 inch x 24 inch - not 1/2 inch pasters.

Yes really.

When I sight a scope I cover the target backer with butchers paper for a clean surface to see shot holes if you do this you can use half inch pasters as your aim point.

 

[308pirate]

Really ??????????????

MM

May I ask why do you doubt him?

 

[pmclaine]

@Srikaleak Are you near the northeast?

Sig Sauer Academy tailors classes to the absolute novice. They dont even require students to own guns they will lend them and its a pretty slick way to push sales if you ask me.

Ive taken some of their scoped rifle classes and they are good, lot depends on class size and how many people need basic help.

Reasonable prices, they should be a good option for training if they are in your travel range.

 

[deersniper]

That's fine. Based on the "training" I've seen from them they don't stand a chance anyway.

No sense in helping an enemy even if they are currently incompetent.

 

[pmclaine]

No sense in helping an enemy even if they are currently incompetent.

Just in case there are Phoenix John Brown GC adherents out there looking for sage advice......pistol powder is excellent to use for AR loadings.

 

[Srikaleak]

I'm located in TX. Rifles only training was the plan. And I love the butcher paper idea.

 

[Fig]

He is a member of the Phoenix John Brown Gun Club

If that's the case I recommend vigorously short stroking your barrel with the blue JB after every firing. Really every week even if you don't shoot it.

Also, only idiots need to zero their scope. Real marksmen just attach it and use the natural point of aim where the reticle wants to be. Don't be one of these right wing idiots "forcing" their scope to be exactly where the bullet hits. You won't become a better marksman doing it their backwards, racist way.

 

[Srikaleak]

If that's the case I recommend vigorously short stroking your barrel with the blue JB after every firing. Really every week even if you don't shoot it.

Also, only idiots need to zero their scope. Real marksmen just attach it and use the natural point of aim where the reticle wants to be. Don't be one of these right wing idiots "forcing" their scope to be exactly where the bullet hits. You won't become a better marksman doing it their backwards, racist way.

I'm lubing my bcg with loctite as I type.

 

[pmclaine]

If that's the case I recommend vigorously short stroking your barrel with the blue JB after every firing. Really every week even if you don't shoot it.

Also, only idiots need to zero their scope. Real marksmen just attach it and use the natural point of aim where the reticle wants to be. Don't be one of these right wing idiots "forcing" their scope to be exactly where the bullet hits. You won't become a better marksman doing it their backwards, racist way.

That's why they come up with mil dot reticles.....slap it on, than hold off.......never, ever, ever, ever touch the turrets or unscrew caps on the adjusters...you will break your scope and prove that its not repeatable.