- Thread starter Iwillylike2shoot
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There are actually a lot of options out there a lot of options out there. The 6 turbo, 6 turbo 40improved, the 6 fat rat, the 6 grinch and the 243 lbc. All those are based on the 6.5 Grendel case. The 6.8 Spc case has about 6 or more 6mm cases based on it too. Although I’d go with the 243lbc as it’s just a 6.5 Grendel necked down to 6mm, there is no fire forming with this cartridge. I have one of these. And also I can give you the name of a guy that will build you a 6dasher or 6br in an at platform. He uses the 458 socom bolt I believe. I have a friend with one of his bartlein barreled uppers and it’s a shooting devil. He does a lot of green mountain barrels in those guns as well for cheaper and they Shoot well too.
I was just trying to figure out if there was a reason no big gun makers were making a production ar15. I have heard about a few of those though I've never seen the 243blc. The dasher in an ar 15 would be sweet. I would like to know who that is. Is there any case head modification or does the 6br have the same head as a 458?
The 243lbc is just a 6.5 Grendel necked down to 6mm. Black hole weaponry made my 243lbc. I bought the 24 inch stainless full bull threaded barrel chambered in 243 lbc with the barrel extension for $320 shipped to me. You must use a 7.62x39 bolt with it. Im with you on not understanding why no large outfit makes one of these chambers available. I have to use a 6.5 bushing die to resize my brass bc noone makes dies for this round. I will pm you the guys info that makes the dashers
Mainly because wildcat chamberings don't sell well, compared to mainstream chamberings with ammo available off the shelf. Handloaders like us who're willing to go off the beaten path with wildcats unfortunately are a pretty small portion of gun buyers, and manufacturers know that. If something like the 224 Valkyrie happened with the 6mm Grendel variants they'd sell like hotcakes IMO, but someone's got to do the work to make it a SAMMI standardized cartridge before it would ever get really big.
I shoot the 125. A 136 is not beefier. It allows 0.0112, nominaln more of the case head to hang out and be unsupported. If it were stronger we'd see more deep bolts. Also none if the KBC/6 Grendel cases use the compound throat like a SAMMI Grendel so don't buy into any smoke and mirrors about that.
As an aside the hew Young bolts in 7.62X39, 125, are stronger and beefier than ANY bolt on the market. Ritch and I did the beta testing on those.
As an aside the hew Young bolts in 7.62X39, 125, are stronger and beefier than ANY bolt on the market. Ritch and I did the beta testing on those.
IMO, you need the powder capacity of the Grendel case and it's short case length if you want to go semi auto, vs single feed, with long bullets.
I shoot a 6 FatRat now but the next barrel I think I'll go 224V with the intent of using heavies. By that time they should have that cartridge all dialed in with reamers, bullets, and powders all optimized.
Never did like the rebated rim idea for a AR - Nosler.
I'd be concerned with reliability as far as the BR case and I don't like the idea of a double stack mag being used as a single stack mag. I tried 243 wssm years ago and it was nothing but a hassle.
I shoot a 6 FatRat now but the next barrel I think I'll go 224V with the intent of using heavies. By that time they should have that cartridge all dialed in with reamers, bullets, and powders all optimized.
Never did like the rebated rim idea for a AR - Nosler.
I'd be concerned with reliability as far as the BR case and I don't like the idea of a double stack mag being used as a single stack mag. I tried 243 wssm years ago and it was nothing but a hassle.
Just happened to see an article in shooting illustrated for x-caliber barrels and they have a 243 BLC. It's weird how the information I've been looking for falls into my lap after I post something like this.
I'm starting down this road as well. Would be great if there was just a SAMMI 6mm Grendel, but out of the various wildcats, 243LBC looks like the best choice re: ease of forming, loading, etc.
As I understand it, you want to use a 7.62x39 bolt and not a Grendel Type II bolt.
Any recommendations on pre-fit barrels? Is Black Hole Weaponry / Columbia River Arms the go-to?
What about bolts? is there one that's any "better" than another?
As I understand it, you want to use a 7.62x39 bolt and not a Grendel Type II bolt.
Any recommendations on pre-fit barrels? Is Black Hole Weaponry / Columbia River Arms the go-to?
What about bolts? is there one that's any "better" than another?
Bhw/Columbia river arms made my 242 lbc. For the money they are hard to beat and shoot right there with Wilson’s and shilen. If money wasn’t a concern I go with a bartlien Krieger or another cut rifled barrel but money doesn’t grow on trees and the bhw barrels seem to shoot very well. As far as bolts you usually get what you pay for. I’d probably spend a little extra money on a billet upper for the extra rigidity too
Is this one from Young Manufacturing the thing to have?
https://youngmanufacturing.net/product-category/bolts-and-bolt-carrier-components/7-62-x-39/
Or LMT? https://lmtdefense.com/parts/l7r3b
Is there such a the as a "high pressure" 7.62x39 bolt?
https://youngmanufacturing.net/product-category/bolts-and-bolt-carrier-components/7-62-x-39/
Or LMT? https://lmtdefense.com/parts/l7r3b
Is there such a the as a "high pressure" 7.62x39 bolt?
I’ve got the young’s bolt in a young’s side charging bolt carrier group with a mega receiver and love it. I’ve had zero issues with any of young’s stuff. I’ve never had anything lmt but I’m sure they are quality as well.
Agreed^^^ I've had excellent luck out of all my Young bolts and carriers. I have a Young N/M bolt carrier group that has literally thousands of rounds on it. I bought it when I built my first AR almost 20yrs ago. I've changed gas rings once, it's really held up.
They make good stuff and stand behind it. I've run the hell out of their SLC carrier and chrome bolt in a 300blk. I abused it pretty hard and it's been perfect so far.
They make good stuff and stand behind it. I've run the hell out of their SLC carrier and chrome bolt in a 300blk. I abused it pretty hard and it's been perfect so far.
Kinda but they aren't sold as 7.62x39 bolts or sold separately. Only sold as a matching set with the 224 and 6 mm Predator barrel, they take a special barrel extension. Not made by Young Mfg.
Sounds like the bolt and barrel extension are a bit "proprietary", which narrows my options.
What advantages does the 6mm Predator have over the 243LBC?
What advantages does the 6mm Predator have over the 243LBC?
There is almost no difference. Don’t quote me but I believe the load data is interchangeable.
I was thinking that the cartridge is pretty much the same, so any pros or cons would have to be in the bolts and barrels. Are there any?
This will probably all go away as soon as someone saami specs a round.
Proprietary hostage I don't plan on being.
The rest will vanish with a few hard core hold outs because they can,
not much other reason.
Kind of like what AAC did with bo.
Imho
Proprietary hostage I don't plan on being.
The rest will vanish with a few hard core hold outs because they can,
not much other reason.
Kind of like what AAC did with bo.
Imho
That would be great, but when is that going to happen? The 6mm AR has been around nearly as long as the 6.5 Grendel.
Meanwhile, I wants me a 6mm Grendel dammit.
Meanwhile, I wants me a 6mm Grendel dammit.
Since 224V came out it kinda makes 6mm Grendel less interesting.
Much as I love my 6mmFatRat the next barrel will be 224V or 224V AI. It's the BC of the 88-95 22 cal which turned me, plus less powder and recoil.
Much as I love my 6mmFatRat the next barrel will be 224V or 224V AI. It's the BC of the 88-95 22 cal which turned me, plus less powder and recoil.
Two diff boltface correct?
Wouldn't that make 22 Grendel doubly interesting? Seeing as you're already set up to load it.
You'd think, right?!
Even though half my rifles are chambered in wildcats, I would like "simple" as much as I can talk myself into, and it seems I get more lazy the older I get. Still got 300 virgin 6.5G brass I haven't formed... Might have to forgo the 224 AI route, I go back and forth, lol. Probably just go with a 24" barrel instead of 22". I'm really hoping Lapua starts making 224V brass!
On top of what I already mentioned with 224V, I want looooooong barrel life. Thinking 22G would start to suffer in that area but a year or two ago I was hot on it because it's a neat cartridge too. Plus the two step neck down is somewhat of a turn off.
Granted I was loading on the hot side with the 6mmART40 I had before, but it wasn't shooting the greatest anymore by 1500 rounds with attempting load adjustment.
Even though half my rifles are chambered in wildcats, I would like "simple" as much as I can talk myself into, and it seems I get more lazy the older I get. Still got 300 virgin 6.5G brass I haven't formed... Might have to forgo the 224 AI route, I go back and forth, lol. Probably just go with a 24" barrel instead of 22". I'm really hoping Lapua starts making 224V brass!
On top of what I already mentioned with 224V, I want looooooong barrel life. Thinking 22G would start to suffer in that area but a year or two ago I was hot on it because it's a neat cartridge too. Plus the two step neck down is somewhat of a turn off.
Granted I was loading on the hot side with the 6mmART40 I had before, but it wasn't shooting the greatest anymore by 1500 rounds with attempting load adjustment.
Yep
All fair points, although there is at least one place selling formed 22G brass.
I have a thing for 6mm, and I want to run one in an AR 15 platform.
I think the Grendel case would be awesome as a mid-range a varmint gun.
I'll be looking hard at 243LBC unless someone can talk me into 6mm Predator, or another variant.
I think the Grendel case would be awesome as a mid-range a varmint gun.
I'll be looking hard at 243LBC unless someone can talk me into 6mm Predator, or another variant.
Just received this from 6mmar.com
6mm turbo 40°
I havent shoot it coz im still debating if im going to keep it
26" bartlein gain twist 8.5-7.75
The dti cartridges are limited by mag length. When it comes to the heavier higher bc bullets the shorter Grendel case is better.
I shoot quite a few gas gun steel challenges out to 800 meters and the .224 VAlkyrie just doesn’t seem to do very well. None of them are hanging with the 6mm Grendel based rounds, whether it be the 243 lbc, 6 grinch, 6turbo40, 6fatrat 6 predator, or any of the other older turbo or rat rounds. Just as benchrest guys have found, there a very happy medium with the high bc 6mm bullets and the case capacity of something like the 6br.
I shoot quite a few gas gun steel challenges out to 800 meters and the .224 VAlkyrie just doesn’t seem to do very well. None of them are hanging with the 6mm Grendel based rounds, whether it be the 243 lbc, 6 grinch, 6turbo40, 6fatrat 6 predator, or any of the other older turbo or rat rounds. Just as benchrest guys have found, there a very happy medium with the high bc 6mm bullets and the case capacity of something like the 6br.
That is true about mag length. But I use mine just for a calling rifle, so I could care less about the heavier, high bc bullets. That's why I use a 1-12 twist Shilen barrel for it. I would probably go the 243lbc if I was wanting to shoot heavier bullets.
I was just sharing the love for 6mm's in an ar15 platform.
I was just sharing the love for 6mm's in an ar15 platform.
I'm really happy with my 243 LBC from BHW. Accuracy and ballistics are both impressive, and it's a pretty nice barrel. I went with a 24" standard profile, which turned out exactly as I'd hoped. I'd buy it again.
What bolt did you go with? Does BHW do matched bolt - barrel pairs? (I'm not seeing that option on their site)
Where would that be?
Store - Next Shot Precision
tacticalcannon.com
That's great info! Thanks
I wish I could remember. It wasn't Young, because they were out of them for about 6 months straight when I needed them. I ended up buying two of the same 7.62x39 bolt and have been using them in my 243 LBC and 6.5 Grendel for the past couple years. No issues with either one, but both are in squared/trued uppers which IMO matters as much as the bolt for longevity.
Edit - I think it was Black Rifle Arms: https://www.blackriflearms.com/762x39-Melonite-QPQ-Bolt-Assembly-_p_239.html
It's the same cartridge, 6mmAR, 243LBC,6mm Predator, 6mm Grendel all the same thing except some use .136 recess bolts (weaker and .012" more of the case is unsupported) which means you can't push the cartridge as hard and you may leave 100fps on the table.
Grendel bolts break some sooner than others, you can read the threads on the Grendel forum. Even the newest 9310 bolts break(same mil spec design, square lugs). The Titan bolts and extensions are not mil spec square lugs, they are larger with huge radii to increase strength which means they will handle as much pressure as the cartridge will. You may be able to get another 100fps by using Norma brass and the Titan bolt. The Titan bolt looks like the E3 but is a little larger.
Decided to go with the 243LBC.
22" 1x9 from BHW / Columbia River.
Plan on shooting 87 v-max, 95 Berger, and maybe something lighter, like a 58 v-max to der-splode stuff like prairie dogs.
Have CFE 223 and H4895 on hand, so will be working with those with AA/Lapua Grendel brass and CCI 450s.
I already have a 6mm Creedmoor micrometer seating die from Redding, and a 243 Win plane-jane RCBS seater. Anyone have a reason why one of those won't work?
22" 1x9 from BHW / Columbia River.
Plan on shooting 87 v-max, 95 Berger, and maybe something lighter, like a 58 v-max to der-splode stuff like prairie dogs.
Have CFE 223 and H4895 on hand, so will be working with those with AA/Lapua Grendel brass and CCI 450s.
I already have a 6mm Creedmoor micrometer seating die from Redding, and a 243 Win plane-jane RCBS seater. Anyone have a reason why one of those won't work?
The seating is pretty straight forward and those should work for u. What are you going to use for a resizing die? I assume a redding bushing 6.5 Grendel die?
I did a search for this thread an I must just suck at using the search function because I couldn’t find it. Anyway I’m planning to build a 6mm AR15 platform too. I have a 6.5 grendel and absolutely love it but I have convinced myself that the 6mm will be even better. I think I want a 243 LBC or a 6mm AR Turbo but all this is open to change. I’ve skimmed through most of the posts and think BHW seems like a good source for a barrel. Where are you guys getting dies and load data though. This will be my first wildcat caliber so this is new territory for me but it should be fun which is the whole point right.
Depends on the length of the seater die body, and I don't have either of those to check. The Grendel case is quite a bit shorter than the Creedmoor case, so there's a strong chance it won't work right.
Eoddave27 - you can get custom dies, but I'm just using 6mm PPC dies for both sizing and seating. 6 PPC is the same case body dimensions, except the shoulder is about .070" shorter, which means you need to keep the seater die backed off by that amount for the 243 LBC. That's a good excuse to actually measure and set shoulder bump correctly anyway, instead of just running the die down to the shellholder like a lot of guys do.
I have considered using a 6 PPC Lee collet neck die (if I could find one, they're discontinued) and a normal 6.5 Grendel die as a body die with the stem removed. That'd be a great combo for sizing straight cases for this cartridge.
Why not just buy the redding 6.5 Grendel bushing die and .269 bushing and be done with it for resizing?
That's an option too, but a bushing die is not at all the same thing as the collet neck die. The Lee collet neck dies size the necks very straight, and are insensitive to variations in neck thickness.
Lots of guys like bushing dies, but I don't unless I'm turning all of the necks to the same thickness.
Lots of guys like bushing dies, but I don't unless I'm turning all of the necks to the same thickness.
So are you guys just starting out with 6.5 Grendel brass and sizing it 6mm?
Yep, I plan on getting a Redding bushing 6.5 Grendel die.
I already have a 269 bushing and Redding seater for my Creedmoor, so my idea is to buy the sizer and otherwise try to use stuff I already have.
Yes. Get some Lapua or Alexander Arms (which I believe is made by Lapua) 6.5 brass and run it through a 6.5 Grendel bushing die with .269 bushing, and expander ball removed. -- Or there's the 6PPC sizer method as described above.
It uses a grendel bolt - otherwise its identical
Is there any compelling reason to go with something other than the 243 LBC. I’m guessing I will probably have to wait awhile on the barrel so I might as well get it ordered.
6mm predator is in stock ready to ship on AR15 performance....
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