I've seen reviews on the ZCO's and I own a Tangent. I like the locking turrets and reticle choices in the ZCO, but love the tool less zero, glass and parallax or lack there of, in the Tangent. Now that the ZCO's have been in the wild for a short while, what are you guys thinking of them? Worth the price paid? Would you rather have a TT?
Rifle Scopes Now that they're in the wild...
- Thread starter Shanerbanner10
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U read my mind. Have the same question. Funny, I've been watching the PX for what guys are thinking between the two. So far it's 1-1 on my scoreboard--one TT owner sold his to fund a ZCO and then the second guy sold his ZCO to get all TT's.
I’m patiently waiting for a ZCO to pop up on the PX. Lol I’m just interested. I’m real happy with the TT.
The two are so close, I’d go with whatever reticle you like better first, followed by the feature set you like better.
I like the reticle offerings better in zcomp. I also use them on vudoo, so 25m focus matters vs the TT’s 50m.
TT prices have gone up a bit. So it also come down to having to find a deal on a gen2xr for it to be the same price point as zcomp. As well as the gen3xr currently impossible to find at the moment.
Given the reticles + feature set on the zcomp, I cannot find another optic that holds up in a dollar for dollar comparison.
I like the reticle offerings better in zcomp. I also use them on vudoo, so 25m focus matters vs the TT’s 50m.
TT prices have gone up a bit. So it also come down to having to find a deal on a gen2xr for it to be the same price point as zcomp. As well as the gen3xr currently impossible to find at the moment.
Given the reticles + feature set on the zcomp, I cannot find another optic that holds up in a dollar for dollar comparison.
Oh, also, the price of zcomp is set at $3600 no matter what. There are no discounts to be had, regardless of dealer. Get caught selling them for less, and you won’t be selling them anymore.
So, this in turn keeps the price point on resale very high as well. Only one has popped up on the PX and was within $100 of new pricing (albeit with some rings already).
Unless saving $1-200 is worth it to you to wait for, might as well just buy a new one.
So, this in turn keeps the price point on resale very high as well. Only one has popped up on the PX and was within $100 of new pricing (albeit with some rings already).
Unless saving $1-200 is worth it to you to wait for, might as well just buy a new one.
This originally was not going to be their pricing structure, I wonder what made them decide to go this route. I was first told that dealers would be able to offer discounts and that ZCO was going to have a mil/veteran discount program, but apparently that has all been scrapped?
So one of those type of companies then.
Well good luck, I personally make it a point not to support companies with anti-consumer policies like that.
I understand however there is a huge pack of folks who think it's wonderful to be charged full price and not be able to get discounts and it would be so wrong to not try to extract as much as possible.
Guess it depends on personal opinion.
I like it as it protects my investment. If I decide to sell a zcomp, I will recoup most of my investment.
If you have owned and sold a k525i or a minox zp5 (I have owned and sold both) as well as many other optics, you will lose your ass on resale because the retail price keeps dropping.
Same thing with anyone who owned a razor gen 2. If you bought one a couple years ago, you will lose 40% or more.
I share this sentiment. It's like NF while it sucks that NF doesn't offer much discount off MAP it's protecting your investment. I haven't noticed any retail changes for Kahles, not for the K525i but the resale in the used market has plummeted to the point that i'm not considering selling mine anymore. I like my K318i too much but considered selling the K525i just have an optic with a larger FOV but they're going for what? 2500-2600. Not losing my ass like that.
Good luck with that thinking, but hey it's your money...
You also assume that they will never come out with a "newer" version or a "cooler" one a few years later and vertical price fixing BS or not, the price of the older one will tank on the used market as everyone will only want the new one ESPECIALLY if the prices have been being manipulated to keep them high, then instead of a usual slow draw down, you'll get a sudden crash, because either the company you are so happy to pay extra money to will have to: a. Lower the price of the older model significantly to get sales b. Keep the price of the old one the same and just accept nobody will buy any more of them.
Looking back over the last 10 years, have any of the top scope makers said that's it this is the best scope and we will never make another one??
In my case I hate companies that do illegal horizontal price fixing and (what should be illegal) vertical price fixing with a passion.
Premier Reticles was one of the first scope makers to try that BS and I was not the only one that was making sure everybody I knew was told not to support them after the way they treated Scott. I was rather pleased when they went bust.
You also assume that they will never come out with a "newer" version or a "cooler" one a few years later and vertical price fixing BS or not, the price of the older one will tank on the used market as everyone will only want the new one ESPECIALLY if the prices have been being manipulated to keep them high, then instead of a usual slow draw down, you'll get a sudden crash, because either the company you are so happy to pay extra money to will have to: a. Lower the price of the older model significantly to get sales b. Keep the price of the old one the same and just accept nobody will buy any more of them.
Looking back over the last 10 years, have any of the top scope makers said that's it this is the best scope and we will never make another one??
In my case I hate companies that do illegal horizontal price fixing and (what should be illegal) vertical price fixing with a passion.
Premier Reticles was one of the first scope makers to try that BS and I was not the only one that was making sure everybody I knew was told not to support them after the way they treated Scott. I was rather pleased when they went bust.
Tangent Theta. Haven’t changed much in their design because it’s hard to improve on.
Schmidt hasn’t change much at all either.
And in fact, TT has increased their pricing. This is the same market zcomp is in. They aren’t in the vortex market in which becomes cheaper and cheaper to buy.
If I were to sell my zcomp tomorrow, I’d lose $200 at the very most.
If zcomp comes out with another product in 5 years, I’ll likely lose $600 at the most.
You’ll lose $600 immediately on a k525i and a lot of this is because price varies from $3200 to $2800 depending on dealer or mil/le.
Just like consumers are free to shop around for the best deal possible, I can build a product and refuse to sell it for any less than a certain price point.
That would be fine, no problem, but that is not what this is about.
This is about a company trying to strong arm vertical price fixing where they sell it for whatever they want to the distributors no problem.
The bad part is when they start trying to demand the people that have paid them the price they wanted for it, now can only sell it for some price that they want to control also. That's where the problem comes in. It should be that the company can charge whatever they want selling it to the distributors and then after that it's hands off, sell it for what you want, as we have gotten our money.
Unfortunately with mil/le pricing programs, those prices eventually leak out and that becomes the going rate.
You can call a vortex vendor and basically get the same or lower pricing as mil/le. So, that drives the price down.
Also, myself being mil/le for most of my life now, I don’t really think these types of discounts are totally moral. What have I done to deserve it over a plumber, lawyer, welder, etc etc? I do a job just like anyone else and it’s no better or worse than the next job.
Then there is also no protection for the “little guy.”
If retailer X buys 100 optics and decides they can sell them for 8% and make money, but retailer Y can only buy 10 and has to keep a 15% margin to stay in business.....good luck in today’s market of internet sales and such.
Zco also isn’t knocking on doors asking people to sell their optics. People are going to them.
They could have done a direct to consumer and no middle men would be making any profit.
So, there’s two sides to this coin. Both have merit and logic that makes sense.
Now retailer Y, Z, A and B who can’t buy the product in bulk as much as retailer X can will be either dropping the product or demanding their wholesale price be reduced.
This starts the cycle of product devaluation all over again.
This starts the cycle of product devaluation all over again.
People are crazy if they will buy used to save $200 on a $3600 scope.
That would also be perfectly fine, if they wanted to do so, but they sell to distributors specifically because it is beneficial to them from a money and cash flow standpoint.
We sell to both end users and resellers.
On average resellers order more at once, more often and buy stuff to stockpile and are about half the trouble of end users on the whole.
By selling to resellers they get the benefits of big bulk predictable guaranteed orders with little to no trouble to deal with.
That sure beats having to sell one by one to picky end users and deal with all the customer service and sales issues for a little bit extra money.
About said statement, you said you were in law enforcement? I’m not trashing a plumber or welder, but no cop or law enforcement officer would include lawyer in there..... Really?
Buying a scope at full price is like buying a car at sticker price. It doesn’t matter what your profession is, but paying full price doesn’t make much sense.
Why wouldn’t we? It’s a profession just like anything else.
LEO’s have to work side by side with prosecutors. Having an issue with them without an individual reason is a terrible idea.
Also, defense attorneys make sure the laws (and by default, the constitution is upheld).
I find your comment pretty naive at face value.
The point I was making, I don’t personally think I deserve a discount over anyone else based on my occupation of choice.
It's not about price point for me, it's about the fact of even getting one. I've been trying to scoop up a new one for a long time now, but nothing is ever available (MPCT2) when I call--all sold or spoken for. I will get one eventually.
Wow..... just wow..... I’m not going to argue with you so I’m just going to agree to disagree.
Back to the point at hand. If you want to pay full price, go ahead. If you don’t, I’m sure you will find a discount or coupon.
Yea. I think this is going to be an issue for the foreseeable future.
Limited production facility and they were hard to get before any reviews came in.
The more good reviews to come in and more people will be ordering them and backing the line up even more.
I’d suggest getting on a list with a vendor as soon as possible as the list is going to only get longer.
If you’re a LEO and you for whatever reason dislike attorneys just for the fact they are attorneys, you need to rethink your opinions.
And no.....you will not find a discount or a coupon for a Zcomp.
You’re in over your head on this one.
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