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Foundation Stocks - people are bedding?

O

Olen_4504

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Minuteman
May 16, 2018
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Montpelier, Virginia
I've seen a few guys saying they fully bedded their Foundation Stock.

Anyone care to explain their decision to do this? Peace of mind? Poor mating/accuracy without?

I just placed an order for an exodus. I've only shot chassis's and Foundation states their stocks don't require bedding/pillars.

"The high compression strength of our material allows us to build an action/DBM specific stock that requires no bedding or pillars. "

Thanks guys
 
Shot this group the other day with my unbedded Foundation, inlet for my Mausingfield. Probably could have been tighter but I was freezing, and I got that bottom right shot input to the software a little too far out, that is a 4 round group.

7046301
 
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Check out Joe Walls at exodus rifles. If you want to see some groups of bedded foundation stocks, go look at his instagram. In conversation with him (I shoot at the range with him) he beds to take out ANY inconsistency between the action and stock. He has one of the most thorough bedding operations I’ve ever seen.

If you do decide to bed it, I’d send it to him. He does some bang up work.
 
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Estes640 said:
Check out Joe Walls at exodus rifles. If you want to see some groups of bedded foundation stocks, go look at his instagram. In conversation with him (I shoot at the range with him) he beds to take out ANY inconsistency between the action and stock. He has one of the most thorough bedding operations I’ve ever seen.



If you do decide to bed it, I’d send it to him. He does some bang up work.
Click to expand...
That’s my plan if I decide to bed for sure. He’s the man
 
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If you were a guy that made a living or even had a side gig bedding rifles for cash, would you tell them their rifle didn't need it?

The material used in Foundation stocks has a higher compression strength than aluminum, and you don't see many people bedding their MPA chassis'. I'd leave it alone personally.
 
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lte82 said:
If you were a guy that made a living or even had a side gig bedding rifles for cash, would you tell them their rifle didn't need it?

The material used in Foundation stocks has a higher compression strength than aluminum, and you don't see many people bedding their MPA chassis'. I'd leave it alone personally.
Click to expand...

LOL.. right?!? "Hey, do you think I should give you $300 or nah?"

I have a foundation inlet for LP fuzion.. fuzion has flats on the bottom of the action, so I feel this promotes a more solid mating surface. I haven't had any accuracy issues with mine.

If you bought one inlet for action A and you run action B from another company, makes sense to bed.

If spending a few hundo helps you sleep better at night, go for it.
 
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Mine is not bedded and it outshoots anyone I put on it.

I did read about a sort of “bedding process,” torquing the action into the stock, loosening, and then re-torquing a few times. Not sure how legit that is or whether or not it actually does anything but it seems to have worked well for me.
 
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just browsing said:
Mine is not bedded and it outshoots anyone I put on it.

I did read about a sort of “bedding process,” torquing the action into the stock, loosening, and then re-torquing a few times. Not sure how legit that is or whether or not it actually does anything but it seems to have worked well for me.
Click to expand...
Can someone confirm this?
 
bjay said:
Can someone confirm this?
Click to expand...
I asked John-Kyle about this specifically...it wasn’t something he specifically provided as guidance, he just said torque it down to 55” lbs and run it.
 
If you want the best accuracy you can get then have it bedded. If you want resale or ability to transfer other barreled actions into or out of it then don’t bed.
 
Of course they are but that doesn’t mean they are an exact duplicate. No action is. Will it be close enough to slide into a stock already bedded for that action, most likely. Will it shoot the same as it did for the bedded action? Maybe, there is only one way to find out. But if optimal accuracy is your goal then it should be bedded. Your rifle will likely still produce groups that’ll “work” fine but if your already spending thousands what’s a couple hundred more. If your smith knows what he is doing it may help the rifle, but will never hurt it.
 
reubenski said:
When my buddy got a Foundation we put it on my rifle and shot it. We both have the same actions. In my bedded chassis it shot 1/3moa at 300yds. Same barreled action and load in the foundation shot about 3/4's on the same day, on the same range.

It's funny how we create these ideas. Talk to the AI guys and they are scratching their heads about rifles that aren't bonded, much less bedded. Like a fully glued action in the chassis is the "magic" to an AI shooting well. Then you get to a product that advertises bedding not required because the inlet is CNC cut. It should be very precise and consistent. Bedding is just a gunsmith trying to sell you on something you don't need. It all sounds like confirmation bias to me.
Click to expand...

You're absolutely right, definitely lots of confirmation bias seeking on the internet.

Funny things about the AI's, is that while they still shoot great, it's not uncommon for customs to shoot better.

I've moved on from bedded stocks to unbedded/unmodified chassis', and they shoot every bit as good as anything I've had prior. My very best groups have been shot with a rifle in an unbedded chassis in fact.

With the equipment being made these days, it's great to be able to drop in a barreled action in a chassis and shoot 1/4 MOA groups.

There's a lot of shooting myths and mystique's that are still passed on as facts these days, passover from a time when the knowledge and equipment wasn't near as good as it is today.
 
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reubenski said:
MPA's have been the only chassis/ stock I haven't had to bed and I attribute it to the unique design of the inlet, making contact in just about the opposite manner of the common V block design. My barrels will reliably shoot 1/3 moa or better out of these chassis.
Click to expand...

I've had excellent results with JAE's, haven't had the opportunity to really test out other chassis'.
 
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reubenski said:
When my buddy got a Foundation we put it on my rifle and shot it. We both have the same actions. In my bedded chassis it shot 1/3moa at 300yds. Same barreled action and load in the foundation shot about 3/4's on the same day, on the same range.

It's funny how we create these ideas. Talk to the AI guys and they are scratching their heads about rifles that aren't bonded, much less bedded. Like a fully glued action in the chassis is the "magic" to an AI shooting well. Then you get to a product that advertises bedding not required because the inlet is CNC cut. It should be very precise and consistent. Bedding is just a gunsmith trying to sell you on something you don't need. It all sounds like confirmation bias to me.
Click to expand...
Could it be your just more comfortable/accustomed to the mpa chassis?

My rifle shoots pretty well in a foundation unbedded admittedly maybe I’m not good enough to shoot the difference yet...
 
just to add to this...the reason for the bedding isnt necessarily for shooting some small groups

its for when you smash the barrel on a prop moving to the next position, or someone steps on your rifle and knocks it over, or it falls off something and takes a big hit

go out and smack your barrel into a bench then keep shooting it...then smack it again...until then, you wont really know (hit it like you mean it too)

ive done it and ive seen how SOME combos will move

this pic is from an MPA before being bedded...4 outside diamonds

7112319
 
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morganlamprecht said:
just to add to this...the reason for the bedding isnt necessarily for shooting some small groups

its for when you smash the barrel on a prop moving to the next position, or someone steps on your rifle and knocks it over, or it falls off something and takes a big hit

go out and smack your barrel into a bench then keep shooting it...then smack it again...until then, you wont really know (hit it like you mean it too)

ive done it and ive seen how SOME combos will move

this pic is from an MPA before being bedded...4 outside diamonds

View attachment 7112319
Click to expand...


I’ve experienced this first hand.

First stage of a match walking up the stairs to shooting platform with my rifle over my shoulder. Smacked the shit out of the barrel on the roof. It was a long range stage and I was .3 low at 1000

Everyone in my squad said I’d be fine and it probably didn’t do anything. I ran over to the 100yd line to check zero and I was .3 low just as I expected.

I haven’t gotten my foundation bedded yet, but considering it more now
 
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yup, ive seen it happen to a lot of people

those weird "hmm my zero is off..." issues are usually from the action/stock or scope mount/rail interaction, more than the scope itself from what ive seen a lot

just watch everyone on the zero lines before matches adjust their turrets lol

my foundation shot great before bedding...bedded it anyway cause it takes me 30 minutes and a couple bucks

the mpa shot well prior also...until my zero shifted mid match...post bedding it passed the bang test perfectly

we tested 2 different AIs and both held perfectly

if someone doesnt want to do it or pay for it, fine...but if your zero is ever randomly off by small amounts...its worth looking into cause it absolutely can matter...its been checked and tested by better shooters than me, as well
 
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morganlamprecht said:
yup, ive seen it happen to a lot of people

those weird "hmm my zero is off..." issues are usually from the action/stock or scope mount/rail interaction, more than the scope itself from what ive seen a lot

just watch everyone on the zero lines before matches adjust their turrets lol

my foundation shot great before bedding...bedded it anyway cause it takes me 30 minutes and a couple bucks

the mpa shot well prior also...until my zero shifted mid match...post bedding it passed the bang test perfectly

we tested 2 different AIs and both held perfectly

if someone doesnt want to do it or pay for it, fine...but if your zero is ever randomly off by small amounts...its worth looking into cause it absolutely can matter...its been checked and tested by better shooters than me, as well
Click to expand...


Never had a rifle bedded. Who would you suggest that does a quality job and decent turn around to be completed between matches
 
Last edited:
ive always done them myself, not terribly hard once you get a method and some little tricks down...the main thing im concerned with is a solid surface for the front and rear of the action, and the recoil locked in there so it cant shift without something physically breaking

when it comes to fast tho, im sure LRI would be hard to beat
 
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morganlamprecht said:
ive always done them myself, not terribly hard once you get a method and some little tricks down...the main thing im concerned with is a solid surface for the front and rear of the action, and the recoil locked in there so it cant shift without something physically breaking

when it comes to fast tho, im sure LRI would be hard to beat
Click to expand...
Is pillar necessary when bedding foundation?
 
bjay said:
Is pillar necessary when bedding foundation?
Click to expand...

i didnt mess with pillar'ing it...like mentioned above, the material itself is tough as hell...i just didnt want the action to be able to shift at all...from anything outside of the effects of firing rounds
 
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morganlamprecht said:
just to add to this...the reason for the bedding isnt necessarily for shooting some small groups

its for when you smash the barrel on a prop moving to the next position, or someone steps on your rifle and knocks it over, or it falls off something and takes a big hit

go out and smack your barrel into a bench then keep shooting it...then smack it again...until then, you wont really know (hit it like you mean it too)

ive done it and ive seen how SOME combos will move

this pic is from an MPA before being bedded...4 outside diamonds

View attachment 7112319
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info I’ve never thought of it being a holding zero issue, and more repeatable zero.

I’ll go do some bangin around on it see how bad it is.

How much better did yours do after bedding?
 
everything has been good to go after bedding

typically the worst ill see is after a hard whack, shot #1 will be off maybe .1-.2 at the most, then the rest fall right back into zero'd...the majority of the time there's no shift

rifle ive been shooting recently is in a foundation, i think ive taken the 6.5 barrel on/off 4 or 5x now when shooting other barrels in between matches...havent had to tweak my zero for the 6.5 when it goes back on yet...has been right back where i left it, holding great
 
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FWIW...i went and shot my newest foundation this week, shot great...i banged the barrel on the bench from every direction 8-10x...never had an POI shift and held great

I still bedded it all, took it apart, scope off, etc...
7121410


First 4 shots yesterday after putting it back together, shot 1 was the low one, next 3 punched the dot...good to go

7121413
 
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I just put a defiance deviant in a genesis stock with inlets for the action. Can’t see a reason t bed it.
 
reubenski said:
When my buddy got a Foundation we put it on my rifle and shot it. We both have the same actions. In my bedded chassis it shot 1/3moa at 300yds. Same barreled action and load in the foundation shot about 3/4's on the same day, on the same range.

It's funny how we create these ideas. Talk to the AI guys and they are scratching their heads about rifles that aren't bonded, much less bedded. Like a fully glued action in the chassis is the "magic" to an AI shooting well. Then you get to a product that advertises bedding not required because the inlet is CNC cut. It should be very precise and consistent. Bedding is just a gunsmith trying to sell you on something you don't need. It all sounds like confirmation bias to me.
Click to expand...
It sounds like your saying your barreled action shot worse in the foundation. Is that right?
 
morganlamprecht said:
FWIW...i went and shot my newest foundation this week, shot great...i banged the barrel on the bench from every direction 8-10x...never had an POI shift and held great

I still bedded it all, took it apart, scope off, etc...View attachment 7121410

First 4 shots yesterday after putting it back together, shot 1 was the low one, next 3 punched the dot...good to go

View attachment 7121413
Click to expand...
Man it's like you're talking for me. Everything you've said about in this thread has been my experience to the T. I too don't rely on word of mouth as to what's good or bad,I like to test things for myself and in doing so I've found that there are very few chassis systems that will truly hold but one thing I've found that has to be looked at too is barrel torque. I've gone from using 80ft/lbs to 120. I haven't been able to prove movement at 80 but others say they have and if you go from 80-100 you'll notice the action tighten on the barrel a good bit more,but from 100-120 there's almost nothing so to me that extra 20 really locks it in. I've also gone from 45in lbs on the action screws to 65 and noticed that helped the system hold zero quite a bit better. But if I get movement at 65 it takes maybe one shot,like you said,to re zero. So I went from 65 all the way to 100 and notice two things. If the chassis system is truly solid and true and your action is too, the accuracy won't change at all if not improve. But at 100 it's the same as with the barrel,that extra bit really locks everything together.
I shot a match just yesterday and I'm telling I tripped and slammed by kmw sentinel with imb on the concrete,picked it up,and cleaned a plate rack at 700 that required 6 hits on a 6in plate! I know I couldn't have expected that from some of the systems I've tested and I've tested most of them. The two most solid by far for me have been the kmw imb and manners mcs. The screws tighten to a point and just stop vs. a mushiness I get from the others.
 
Here's one of my Foundation stocked rifles, not bedded with a 200 yard group. First couple of rounds down the pipe.

foundation-6mm.jpg



foundation-target.jpg
 
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Plenty of barreled action combinations shoot great in a unbedded chassis or stock. Some just do not, at least to their potential. When trying to squeeze every once of accuracy out of a platform, epoxy bedding is ALWAYS best. I see rifles all the time that are brought in with “acceptable” accuracy , usually shown in some kind of form of a 5 shot group that looks like a nice 3/8” clover leaf. Once that stock is bedded and shot to confirm, It’s not hard to “sell you” on the idea of bedding the rest of your rifles when that groups shrinks to a consistent 5 shot group in the .1’s-.2’s. Zero retention is another reason to epoxy bed. Barreled actions rarely return to zero once uninstalled from a chassis or unbedded stock. Bedding it will fix this issue. Think of spending $1k plus dollars to shoot a match a few states away with your $6-$10k rifle and having to pull your barreled action from the stock (trigger failure/ broken bolt stop,etc ) only then to find out 3 stages later your zero is off .3 tenths in several directions. Again, this is preventable with a few dollars worth of epoxy.
 
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