Recoil Control Bipods

[Deleted member 10043]

There really is no need for any BS on a freaking rifle under .308 caliber. You're putting that monster on SA 6mm and that is a fact. Are you disabled? Is the person that bought it from you disabled? WTF is coming off? Your rotary cuff?

 

[THEIS]

Correct... I'm a Scientific Research and Experimental Development Analyst, so long winded verbiage is my specialty. I try not to assume the audience has the required base knowledge. Even when most do.

Hi,

There you have it folks.....

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Diver160651]

I hear you Diver... But let's not to throw the baby out with the bath water just yet... The principle can be utilized in more palatable ways for a more diverse audience... Like PRS.

I'm just kicking this out there as what I think would represent the maximum evolution of the concept.

Consider this picture indicating a barrel in the center with a two piece forend with the green outer sliding along the red inner hull and along the axis of bore via dovetails.

With soft silicone bumpers at the front and back of the dovetail the compressive pressure would hold the inner and outer forend system in place so nothing would rattle, but it would slide in either direction under recoil, but along a controlled axis.

The green outer sleeve attached to an Arca rail grabbing the barricade would slowly transmit the recoil to the barricade but not all at once like an Arca rail will do.

The difference being that such a forened would allow the rifle to track with many common bipods with raptor feet or barricade hooks and contribute to recoil mitigation in a wider variety of applications.

A forend like this could easily be 3D printed to try it out.

Just throwing this out there.

View attachment 7121515

Well, that thinking is what made PRS style guns what they are today, arguably one of the fastest growing segments of long range shooting.

I would also encourage you to come out and see what 90 seconds on several targets with multiple positions feels like. Then attend a few more to see how diverse the stages are and how skilled some of the shooter are at managing the problems. I can’t tell you how many stages I have timed out on just using a simple bag.

I would think this would be key in your development process as you’d certainly need something that was a fast as dropping a bag.

At the end of the day, for PRS/NRL it will also have to offer something over a 6mm with a brake in a 20# rifle..can’t.

If it is as versatile, exceeds the speed of deployment over a bag, less weight than a heavy chassis and is more accurate on all possible positions... then you’ll be onto something.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Serious question by the way..all kidding aside.

Have you documented the elevation change deviations from when using the recoil device on different terrain?
Have you document the elevation change deviations from when using the recoil device while on various stabilization objects?

The USN has documented quiet substantial elevation change deviations with the Tac50s just from unloading vs loading the bipod.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Deleted member 10043]

I think we reached the end of the Internet.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

The USN has documented quiet substantial elevation change deviations with the Tac50s just from unloading vs loading the bipod.

They have not learned the concept of free recoil, with those yet?

 

[THEIS]

They have not learned the concept of free recoil, with those yet?

Hi,

Not yet, but the "recoil absorbing" buttstock design can be a direct linkage as to why they changed stocks..among some other reasons too.
The hydraulic recoil mitigation was way to inconsistent and unpredictable based on how hard/soft the hold was.
Easier to drop that and get back to teaching everyone the basics of solid hold....
So IF the recoil mitigation concept did not work installed on the back end..I am not seeing how the results would be different with it installed in the front end via the red and green picture in previous thread.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[MosesTheTank]

Correct... I'm a Scientific Research and Experimental Development Analyst, so long winded verbiage is my specialty. I try not to assume the audience has the required base knowledge. Even when most do.

If you want company from some folks who can be long-winded/scientific(any subject)/analytical skill laden/babblers you have come to the right place. It's just that the topic doesn't, or at least hasn't yet, called for it. I have gotten help with Python from a member and have given some help to a guys kid who was struggling in biochem (the old hemoglobin Fe high spin/low spin state thing)

Assume nothing.

And seriously dude... fundamentals

 

[spife7980]

Since yall like scantily clad people shooting guns

 

[QuickNDirty]

@MosesTheTank I thought you were a lawyer or something. What're you messing with Python for?

 

[MosesTheTank]

@MosesTheTank I thought you were a lawyer or something. What're you messing with Python for?

I left the legal business 2+ decades ago. But I tripled chem/physics/math. Using Python (the whole suite of crap... Anaconda, SciPy, matplotlib, TabPy for Tableau integration...) for some data analysis. Basically creating a simpler model of the Philly Fed GDP calc.

I have a long history with Essbase and Oracle relational DBs but am using BigQuery for this project.

 

[brianf]

your on the wrong site
when posting assume everything and know nothing lol

 

[Steel head]

So now we know what spife looks like in a Borat thong.

 

[MosesTheTank]

So now we know what spife looks like in a Borat thong.

That was a Tactical Reveal

 

[PracticalTactical]

Hi,

Not yet, but the "recoil absorbing" buttstock design can be a direct linkage as to why they changed stocks..among some other reasons too.
The hydraulic recoil mitigation was way to inconsistent and unpredictable based on how hard/soft the hold was.
Easier to drop that and get back to teaching everyone the basics of solid hold....
So IF the recoil mitigation concept did not work installed on the back end..I am not seeing how the results would be different with it installed in the front end via the red and green picture in previous thread.

Sincerely,
Theis

To your point I would say the footing of the bipod would not change with the system on the front of the rifle. That brings the rifle directly back onto the target after recoil. Assuming there's a decent rear bag.

If the recoil system is in the butt stock, then the bipod will have moved and repositioned itself after each shot.

The way the trigger is pulled can be quite different with the system trapped in the front as well.. Bench rest guys often prefer very light triggers so they don't disturb the rifle when pulling the trigger. I don't need or want that.

With the rifle trapped in the front I tend to prefer a heavier trigger and use that trigger weight to pull back on the rifle with a consistent amount of pressure each shot... It works kind of like a torque wrench that slips once you've hit the required pressure. In this case, once I've pulled back hard enough, the trigger breaks. That way it is very consistent.

During a match I really get into that zone and almost always shoot better as the days go on.

And BTW, I'm not exactly a stranger to PRS... There's only one center fire match in the area and I've gone for the last three years. Usually end up in the top 30 percent or so. I'll be at Meaford in September if any of you will be there.

I also piddle with rimfire PRS... there's a few of those around. I tied for second in my last match.

 

[b6graham]

To your point I would say the footing of the bipod would not change with the system on the front of the rifle. That brings the rifle directly back onto the target after recoil. Assuming there's a decent rear bag.

If the recoil system is in the butt stock, then the bipod will have moved and repositioned itself after each shot.

The way the trigger is pulled can be quite different with the system trapped in the front as well.. Bench rest guys often prefer very light triggers so they don't disturb the rifle when pulling the trigger. I don't need or want that.

With the rifle trapped in the front I tend to prefer a heavier trigger and use that trigger weight to pull back on the rifle with a consistent amount of pressure each shot... It works kind of like a torque wrench that slips once you've hit the required pressure. In this case, once I've pulled back hard enough, the trigger breaks. That way it is very consistent.

During a match I really get into that zone and almost always shoot better as the days go on.

And BTW, I'm not exactly a stranger to PRS... There's only one center fire match in the area and I've gone for the last three years. Usually end up in the top 30 percent or so. I'll be at Meaford in September if any of you will be there.

I also piddle with rimfire PRS... there's a few of those around. I tied for second in my last match.

Canada. that explains all of this. makes so much sense

 

[TheGerman]

I hear you Diver... But let's not to throw the baby out with the bath water just yet... The principle can be utilized in more palatable ways for a more diverse audience... Like PRS.

I'm just kicking this out there as what I think would represent the maximum evolution of the concept.

Consider this picture indicating a barrel in the center with a two piece forend with the green outer sliding along the red inner hull and along the axis of bore via dovetails.

With soft silicone bumpers at the front and back of the dovetail the compressive pressure would hold the inner and outer forend system in place so nothing would rattle, but it would slide in either direction under recoil, but along a controlled axis.

The green outer sleeve attached to an Arca rail grabbing the barricade would slowly transmit the recoil to the barricade but not all at once like an Arca rail will do.

The difference being that such a forened would allow the rifle to track with many common bipods with raptor feet or barricade hooks and contribute to recoil mitigation in a wider variety of applications.

A forend like this could easily be 3D printed to try it out.

Just throwing this out there.

View attachment 7121515

If I'm not mistaken, I think Cadex makes a sliding Picatinny rail attachment that might be able to be used in much the same way and in a more simplified manner.

Looks like someone reaching back and opening up their ass?

Once you see it you can never unsee it; just like realizing Amazon's logo is a dick.

 

[Diver160651]

And BTW, I'm not exactly a stranger to PRS... There's only one center fire match in the area and I've gone for the last three years.

What PRS match is that?

Also what rear bag are you using?

A decent amount of the PRS/NRL matches do not have many stages where you'll use a traditional prone bag to support the rear of the rifle; but then you know this.

I guess I am trying only to figure out why there seems to be such a disconnect, because we've gone on to talk about trapping rifles in the front and the disadvantages, the crazy wave of those devices that almost flooded the market overnight, yet are all most extinct at the matches today by the better shooters and yet you keep coming back to how good they work. And apparently now gone on how much you know about shooting Practical Precision Rifle, yet something doesn't smell correct in Denmark..

My original intent was to be helpful and shed some light on what has been tried and proven to be less than desirable. Apparently it is a waste of both our time. Good luck to you.. but as with a lot of products like the lead-sled that sell well, maybe your’s will too. However, I will still feel sorry for the new shooter or less knowable shooter that gets sucked into that POS, trying to make up for lack of shooter education and practice.

 

[Shifty6BR]

Since yall like scantily clad people shooting guns

???????

 

[LawnMM]

How well does this rube goldberg machine work on tank traps? plastic barrels? rock formations? wood/concrete platforms? tripods? wood fences? t posts? barbed wire fencing? vehicle hoods/roofs?

Do I still get the same 'watch the bullet in the air' benefits of the device if it can't be staked down to the surface supporting the rifle?

 

[PracticalTactical]

How well does this rube goldberg machine work on tank traps? plastic barrels? rock formations? wood/concrete platforms? tripods? wood fences? t posts? barbed wire fencing? vehicle hoods/roofs?

Do I still get the same 'watch the bullet in the air' benefits of the device if it can't be staked down to the surface supporting the rifle?

First of all... It's not all about you and what you do...

Having said that...

Instead of illustrating your absence of creative insight... I think you should take a step back and consider the concept in principle.

If you actually have an ounce of ingenuity in there somewhere, you might actually see the potential for applying the concept to all of your needs by integrating the soft recoil transmission to the forend of the rifle.

As I stated several times earlier... I'm not trying to sell these... I'm just presenting a way that I have been successful in competition using a recoil control system that I have never seen used anywhere else before.

If you don't want to try it, I'm not going to twist your arm, but the next time your neighbor askes you to zero his 8 pound 300 Win Mag you might wish you had one.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

I get it. AL-ANON. You can fix us. My friend has to zero his own rifle. Plus, the fallacy of zeroing my friend's rifle with that tool is going to result with what he shoots without it. Plus, a .300 Mag is a .308 bullet. I've already expressed my opinion on that. If you can't shoot it because of the recoil than keep going down until you reach one you are comfortable with. There is no shame with relagating yourself to a squirrel or rabbit hunter based on personal limitations. Also, I would appreciate if you don't intellectually talk down to my brother in arms. You're not very good at it. You asked for opinions and that is what you are getting. Plus, easier softer ways avail us nothing.

 

[seansmd]

 

[LawnMM]

First of all... It's not all about you and what you do...

Having said that...

Instead of illustrating your absence of creative insight... I think you should take a step back and consider the concept in principle.

If you actually have an ounce of ingenuity in there somewhere, you might actually see the potential for applying the concept to all of your needs by integrating the soft recoil transmission to the forend of the rifle.

As I stated several times earlier... I'm not trying to sell these... I'm just presenting a way that I have been successful in competition using a recoil control system that I have never seen used anywhere else before.

If you don't want to try it, I'm not going to twist your arm, but the next time your neighbor askes you to zero his 8 pound 300 Win Mag you might wish you had one.

Cheeky SOB, ain't ya?

First off, chief, it's absolutely all about me and what I do. That's the lens everyone views anything through.

Your contraption seems like it doesn't work in the scenarios I outlined. Those are scenarios I encounter often, it's why I asked if my understanding off your contraption was correct.

I take, by your snide responding by poking at my 'lack of creative insight' that I'm correct. Which makes this piece of shit contraption of yours worthless for the shooting I engage in on a regular basis, competitively I might add.

Perhaps you should take this thing over to the accurate shooter forum where the prone belly dwellers live, you might get a more enthusiastic response.

Whether you aim to sell this thing or merely want validation or 'proof of concept' you're after attention. That's how attention works, it's not always the kind you want, but then you're the one asking for attention from a crowd of tactical shooters. An industry where the competitive side of said industry is moving away from prone.

That's who you're pitching your prone product to...so good luck.

 

[Steel head]

I am a prone belly dweller and I’m not interested.

 

[THEIS]

Whether you aim to sell this thing or merely want validation or 'proof of comcept' you're after attention. That's how attention works, it's not always the kind you want, but then you're the one asking for attention from a crowd of tactical shooters.

^^^^
Hi,
That right there!! He needs his view count on his youtube channel to increase so he can then approach companies for advertisement in his videos.

Standby for the "That is not my intention, yada yada yada"

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[PracticalTactical]

Creativity is particularly admired when it solves a known problem...
But it’s strangely resented when it solves a problem that others didn’t already recognize.

Either insult me for actually having an idea or question my motives for sharing it with you in the first place right? There's just no way to win here so screw it.

Now you think it's about my view count on YouTube? That is hilarious... You obviously have no clue about how YouTube works these days with the anti gun agenda in play. I don't make a dime from YouTube and don't expect to.

But hey, you guys know all there is to know right?

Here's my though on that...

Step 1... Unconscious incompetence fails to recognize that there might be a better way to do it. You suck but don't even know it.
Step 2 Conscious incompetence... At least this guy knows he sucks... Recognize that there might be a better way and that there might be something to learn and try to learn it.

 

[LawnMM]

Yeah yeah, we're all fools and you're the lone genius in the community.

 

[Mike4837]

Creativity is particularly admired when it solves a known problem...
But it’s strangely resented when it solves a problem that others didn’t already recognize.

Either insult me for actually having an idea or question my motives for sharing it with you in the first place right? There's just no way to win here so screw it.

Now you think it's about my view count on YouTube? That is hilarious... You obviously have no clue about how YouTube works these days with the anti gun agenda in play. I don't make a dime from YouTube and don't expect to.

But hey, you guys know all there is to know right?

Here's my though on that...

Step 1... Unconscious incompetence fails to recognize that there might be a better way to do it. You suck but don't even know it.
Step 2 Conscious incompetence... At least this guy knows he sucks... Recognize that there might be a better way and that there might be something to learn and try to learn it.

Ok. I’m done with all this. I used to find this thread interesting but this has spiraled down to passive aggressive attacks on everyone who disagrees. I used to applaud you for ingenuity even though I don’t see the practical value for your idea outside of a narrow window of application. Now I think you’re just being a dick. Just because you have whatever degrees you have etc, doesn’t mean everyone else is wrong. Different people have different contexts which means your bipod legitimately may not work for them. Accept that, thank the polite ones who share their opinion, ignore the assholes and move on. This bickering is juvenile.

 

[TripleBull]

Creativity is particularly admired when it solves a known problem...
But it’s strangely resented when it solves a problem that others didn’t already recognize.

"Recognize" isn't the right word in my shooting world. I like recoil. The smack of a 12 gauge slug or a big magnum makes me feel like a kid playing with the best toy ever. I like ELR for the suspense. Bang!...........................Dong. Learning to manage recoil so I can see the impact on steel or spot my misses is that Ricky Bobby hard as a diamond in an ice storm moment. Your fear of a little recoil doesn't get to impose itself on my basic liberties.

So, no. I don't need to go try out your contraption and fiddle around with all that shit. But you go right ahead and have a great time fiddling with it.

 

[Lowlight]

man you guys are brutal this week ??

 

[seansmd]

@Lowlight is that alien gay tiger crabs?

 

[TheGerman]

But does it work with a M249?

 

[Fig]

"Alien Gay Tiger Crabs" first result:

 

[Lowlight]

we added emojis to the site

So we have more choices now

???

 

[Fig]

??er
Cool!

 

[seansmd]

Let the emoji insults and explanations begin!

 

[seansmd]

???

 

[hic28]

 

[hic28]

Seriously guys. Hear me out. Gonna lay prone. Find the target through my 20-90x barska. Set up my bags so rifle isn’t gonna move. Then set my anchor spikes from Amazon for $14.95

Then use my $17.95 tie downs (with bonus bungie cords) to anchor the rifle to the ground. Then I can just pull the trigger and the rifle won’t move.

No one copy my idea cause I’m about to win every match EVER.

Also, if you think my idea is shit, I’ll be snarky towards your opinions and tell you that you don’t know what you’re talking about cause my rifle ain’t moving. Btw, I have a bunch of local match trophies so my opinion is better than yours.

 

[THEIS]

 

[Steel head]

Theis, are you going to incorporate this game changing technology into your new rifle platform?

 

[Steel head]

Step 1... Unconscious incompetence fails to recognize that there might be a better way to do it. You suck but don't even know it.
Step 2 Conscious incompetence... At least this guy knows he sucks... Recognize that there might be a better way and that there might be something to learn and try to learn it.

I’m an ardent practitioner of professional incompetence.

 

[Diver160651]

Seriously guys. Hear me out. Gonna lay prone. Find the target through my 20-90x barska. Set up my bags so rifle isn’t gonna move. Then set my anchor spikes from Amazon for $14.95View attachment 7122015

Then use my $17.95 tie downs (with bonus bungie cords) to anchor the rifle to the ground. Then I can just pull the trigger and the rifle won’t move.

View attachment 7122016

No one copy my idea cause I’m about to win every match EVER.

Also, if you think my idea is shit, I’ll be snarky towards your opinions and tell you that you don’t know what you’re talking about cause my rifle ain’t moving. Btw, I have a bunch of local match trophies so my opinion is better than yours.

Hic,

Here are a couple of screen captures. Come on look at that scope and amazing set of rings - he obviously knows things we don't even understand about precision positional shooting, that's why he isn't listening.

Remember that you need an AO (objective parallax controls) as it is easier to fine tune parallax out of each each shot.. It's silly we forgot that.

In fairness it did look like eventually he has anchor system that is fairly flexible.. The bench system is going to go over like wild fire and shrink benchrest groups.. Silly benchrest guys don't know they have to stop all recoil to set record setting groups.

Hell this is perfect for all hunters too. My 6lbs magnum.. instead of shooting 1/2" and dealing with the recoil, I can shoot that pencil barrel all day with ease while chasing the heat induced walking of the groups.. just sucks when I take away the black sand heavy fill bag, my offset is crazy high... and I miss.

Side note:
Has anyone seen slo mo footage of what goes on to the barrel, action and chassis of a light weight hunter gun when you stop the recoil?? It is very brutal and violent.. you'll even see scope tubes bend, much more so that if the recoil is allowed to move the gun somewhat.

Here is his newer video how he shows reverse loading and he upgraded to a Burris or borrowed a gun


Fast howard to 6:08 thru about 7:13.. I think he get as about 2 shots off. I can't believe the fidgeting and crazy trigger finger, much less how out of sequence he seems to manage the rifle.

More great trigger work, bolt awareness and talk of PRS rules


And yes, I have gone from trying to help, to sharing what I saw that lead me to believe he is way fucking off base.

Sharing his horrible bolt, trigger and general gun handling in his videos into the mix is because he had to bring up his shooting qualifications in the form of I came in second in the 22 rimfire rhetoric.

There are people in this thread who have done well at many matches over the years. Nobody went there, but if course, the op tried.

 

[b6graham]

Hic,

Here are a couple of screen captures. Come on look at that scope and amazing set of rings - he obviously knows things we don't even understand about precision positional shooting, that's why he isn't listening.

Remember that you need an AO (objective parallax controls) as it is easier to fine tune parallax out of each each shot.. It's silly we forgot that.
View attachment 7122034

In fairness it did look like eventually he has anchor system that is fairly flexible.. The bench system is going to go over like wild fire and shrink benchrest groups.. Silly benchrest guys don't know they have to stop all recoil to set record setting groups.

Hell this is perfect for all hunters too. My 6lbs magnum.. instead of shoot 1/2" and dealing with the recoil, I can shoot that pencil barrel all day with ease.. just sucks when I take away the black sand heavy fill bag, my offset is crazy high... and I miss.

Side note:
Has anyone seen slo mo footage of what goes on to the barrel, action and chassis of a light weight hunter gun when you stop the recoil?? It is very brutal and violent.. you'll even see scope tubes bend, much more so that if the recoil is allowed to move the gun somewhat.
View attachment 7122052

stop.
using.

logic.
you.
?

 

[Diver160651]

stop.
using.

logic.
you.
?

what is the last emoji?

 

[Steel head]

Hic,

Here are a couple of screen captures. Come on look at that scope and amazing set of rings - he obviously knows things we don't even understand about precision positional shooting, that's why he isn't listening.

Remember that you need an AO (objective parallax controls) as it is easier to fine tune parallax out of each each shot.. It's silly we forgot that.
View attachment 7122034

In fairness it did look like eventually he has anchor system that is fairly flexible.. The bench system is going to go over like wild fire and shrink benchrest groups.. Silly benchrest guys don't know they have to stop all recoil to set record setting groups.

Hell this is perfect for all hunters too. My 6lbs magnum.. instead of shoot 1/2" and dealing with the recoil, I can shoot that pencil barrel all day with ease.. just sucks when I take away the black sand heavy fill bag, my offset is crazy high... and I miss.

Side note:
Has anyone seen slo mo footage of what goes on to the barrel, action and chassis of a light weight hunter gun when you stop the recoil?? It is very brutal and violent.. you'll even see scope tubes bend, much more so that if the recoil is allowed to move the gun somewhat.
View attachment 7122052

Here is his newer video how he shows reverse loading and he upgraded to a Burris or borrowed a gun


Fast howard to 6:08 thru about 7:13.. I think he get as about 2 shots off. I can't believe the fidgeting and crazy trigger finger, much less how out of sequence he seems to manage the rifle.

And yes, I have gone from trying to help, to sharing what I saw that lead me to believe he is way fucking off base.

Hmmm
Some quick calculations of the angle of the dangle shows a distinct downward force pulling barrel down during recoil.

My meager education would suggest a barrel moving back perfectly straight with recoil might be a better path to pursue.

what is the last emoji?

Eggplant.

Often referenced as a shlong.

 

[TripleBull]

what is the last emoji?

Looks like a purple dildo. How ironic

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Has anyone asked the question(s) of:

1. Is the OP a big fan of investing in gold and silver?
2. Is the OP a bigger fan of Turkish made "Hi Powers" because....well Tisas manufacturing facility rocks.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[b6graham]

what is the last emoji?

a weiner. penis. dick. or similar object used for pleasure