Air quality sensors

[QuickNDirty]

City Hall rammed through a line item that promises to add permanent air quality monitoring stations around the city to help keep an eye on things when various plants catch fire/blow up/etc around here.

In my arguments with the council members about why they didn't solicit feedback from the community about this, and what features we can expect from this investment, it got me to thinking that it might be neat to have my own personal station if it was at all economical to do so.

I know there are some folks here that have a lot of experience with the latest and greatest in this field, and I'd be curious to know more about which options you would trust with your life.

Things like H2S, Benzene, CO, CO2, O3, and a whole lot of other chemicals are to be expected. I figure it'd be cheaper to buy the components rather than buy an assembled unit.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

First off, don't you already have a CO detector in your house? Should be at the lowest(ish) point. We have one here, in the basement.

Then, smoke detectors should be a the relatively highest point of your house. Same goes with Radon detectors. We have the former, but not the latter.

Only other thing we have is a bullshit detector, in every room I'm in. HA. Seriously though, H2S, Benzene, etc.... you live next to a refinery? How about an Ammonia plant? I worked next to one of those for a few years, and that was the first/only time I'd ever seen 'orange/yellow' smoke/steam/vapor coming out of a stack.

 

[QuickNDirty]

First off, don't you already have a CO detector in your house? Should be at the lowest(ish) point. We have one here, in the basement.

Then, smoke detectors should be a the relatively highest point of your house. Same goes with Radon detectors. We have the former, but not the latter.

Only other thing we have is a bullshit detector, in every room I'm in. HA. Seriously though, H2S, Benzene, etc.... you live next to a refinery? How about an Ammonia plant? I worked next to one of those for a few years, and that was the first/only time I'd ever seen 'orange/yellow' smoke/steam/vapor coming out of a stack.

Lol... Houston ship channel, NASA, Ellington Field, etc, etc... All within 20 miles of my doorstep.

Have a look around, if you'd like =)

https://www.google.com/maps/place/2...!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d29.7436781!4d-95.1647681

 

[Rocketvapor]

Ha,
first you complain about them ramming through this line item, instead of complaining why they waited until now.
If you live in an area that might be hazardous during a natural disaster, manufacturing malfunction, terrorist action, having advanced warning before the big green cloud sets off your backyard sensor might be a good idea. Sensors a few miles in each direction would be a lot better than an in home fart detector.

Sensors or trust industry.
It's not like anything like that happens around Houston.
Besides, isn't the EPA supposed to test and inform the public of any risks in the air they breath, the water they drink, and the paint their kids eat?

Soliciting feedback from a community supported by dangerous industries, many actually working for them, about installing sensors that might cost their employers a lot of money and catch them doing bad things might not get the result you would expect.

 

[QuickNDirty]

Ha,
first you complain about them ramming through this line item, instead of complaining why they waited until now.
If you live in an area that might be hazardous during a natural disaster, manufacturing malfunction, terrorist action, having advanced warning before the big green cloud sets off your backyard sensor might be a good idea. Sensors a few miles in each direction would be a lot better than an in home fart detector.

Sensors or trust industry.
It's not like anything like that happens around Houston.

It's been well established that my personal opinion on 99.9958% of all government employees are in the wrong line of work. Hence, why I'm running for Mayor, and running a new city council in my city.

At this point, I'm really just giving people reasons to vote for me, because CLEARLY the folks in office today don't give a shit and have no idea what they're doing.

 

[Rocketvapor]

How about giving away free explosion sensors for every home as a campaign platform?

 

[QuickNDirty]

How about giving away free explosion sensors for every home as a campaign platform?

No.

Some feedback on industrial sensor modules would be nice, though.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Economical Compact Gas Chromatograph with FID detector; 115V from Cole-Parmer

Buy Economical Compact Gas Chromatograph with FID detector; 115V and more from our comprehensive selection of Economical Gas Chromatographs Systems

www.coleparmer.com

Most common types of inexpensive monitors use thermochemical detectors. They sample local gases and have a readout in %, ppm, ppb. Respond to many types of hydrocarbon molecules.
The whole point is "Local Sampling" does not give you much advance warning about an event a mile away.

You see this big flash in the distance. A few seconds later hear the bang and feel the pressure wave.
A couple minutes later your home Oh-Shit detector goes off.
If you live a few miles down wind it might be several minutes.
Local sensors are good for local problems.
What kind of dangerous materials do you play with at home?

 

[QuickNDirty]

What kind of dangerous materials do you play with at home?

I don't play with anything dangerous

The idea is to have lots of local sensors distributed throughout the city to augment whatever the propose solution from the city provides. My guess is the city has no intention to publicize the air quality data in any meaningful way on their own, but that remains to be seen.

The apparatus you linked is neat and all, but I'd be wary of sticking that on, e.g., my roof to be left unmaintained for any length of time. Plus, it's expensive.

I think this thing is the type of stuff they're using in California as the basis of this article. I'd prefer something a little higher-end, but with a combined unit-price < 3k/each.

For this purpose, maybe something like:

AlphaSense COH-A2 Dual Gas Sensor

AlphaSense COH-A2 Dual Gas Sensor detects both carbon monoxide and hydrogen sulfide in a single module.

gaslab.com

Cubic SJH Series Methane Sensor

Long-life infrared methane gas sensor detects 0-5% levels of methane gases in ambient environments.

gaslab.com

and

Gas Detection Instruments | Mil-Ram Technology, Inc.

Specializing in fixed toxic and combustible gas detectors for industrial use. Hundreds of different gases and vapors detected.

www.mil-ram.com

could be helpful. I'm not too sure what all is out there, though, or how much the individual components cost.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Well, if you monitor the air, start suing the businesses and industry in your area and force them to relocate to Mexico... You could soon end up like Portland, Oregon. Get it all cleaned up and then the Homeless will want to come and camp on your sidewalks...

Hobo

Department of Environmental Quality : Welcome Page : State of Oregon

Oregon DEQ home page

www.oregon.gov

 

[Rocketvapor]

Most of those use a catalyst and detect via elevated temperatures in the sensor.
Sort of like the butane hand warmer. Small tube, a pump draw samples from remote locations.
Even valved for multi-locations but unless all sample lines are kept flowing a delay when switching.
This is COMMON in plants that do work with dangerous chemical processes and is even REQUIRED by OSHA.

It would be beneficial to disclose the sensor indications as they could levee FINES for unauthorized releases/
Or, they could trust the industries to self regulate.
If you do not want your kids to be poisoned by industry, move away from industry.
Just because it stinks around chemical plants does not mean it is harmful to those just driving through.
You get used to it when you breath it 24/7 and hardly notice it.

Just look what the EPA did to lead smelters. Moved lead acid battery production to Mexico.

 

[QuickNDirty]

Most of those use a catalyst and detect via elevated temperatures in the sensor.
Sort of like the butane hand warmer. Small tube, a pump draw samples from remote locations.
Even valved for multi-locations but unless all sample lines are kept flowing a delay when switching.
This is COMMON in plants that do work with dangerous chemical processes and is even REQUIRED by OSHA.

It would be beneficial to disclose the sensor indications as they could levee FINES for unauthorized releases/
Or, they could trust the industries to self regulate.
If you do not want your kids to be poisoned by industry, move away from industry.

I'd be OK with self regulation if it was only American-owned storage facilities here. Not everyone values things the same way we do, however. E.g. - https://www.houstonchronicle.com/op...on-Deer-Park-fire-underscore-why-14815104.php

In any case, reliable air quality metrics independent of industry doesn't seem like a bad idea to me.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Sometimes I wonder whether the Chinese government or the U.S. government is the best at hiding environmental pollution capable of killing for generations and hiding it.
Ground water pollution from injection wells, like in North Carolina,
Cancer alley along the lower Mississippi, The Houston Green Gas scare after a hurricane, offshore oil leaks.
Tanker truck wrecks on the interstate or train wrecks with tank cars. Midnight chemical releases.
Industry probably is better at hiding things than the Cartels are at building tunnels.

I guess it pays to know what is in your neighborhood.
Go find this one on a satellite view. How many knew that was close by?

ATF: Electrical spark likely caused deadly Houston blast

An electrical spark likely ignited a gas leak that led to a massive explosion in Houston last week, killing two workers, injuring 20 others and damaging hundreds of buildings, law enforcement officials said Friday. Highly flammable propylene gas started leaking in the piping connected to a tank...

news.yahoo.com

 

[QuickNDirty]

Sometimes I wonder whether the Chinese government or the U.S. government is the best at hiding environmental pollution capable of killing for generations and hiding it.
Ground water pollution from injection wells, like in North Carolina,
Cancer alley along the lower Mississippi, The Houston Green Gas scare after a hurricane, offshore oil leaks.
Tanker truck wrecks on the interstate or train wrecks with tank cars. Midnight chemical releases.
Industry probably is better at hiding things than the Cartels are at building tunnels.

I guess it pays to know what is in your neighborhood.
Go find this one on a satellite view. How many knew that was close by?

ATF: Electrical spark likely caused deadly Houston blast

An electrical spark likely ignited a gas leak that led to a massive explosion in Houston last week, killing two workers, injuring 20 others and damaging hundreds of buildings, law enforcement officials said Friday. Highly flammable propylene gas started leaking in the piping connected to a tank...

news.yahoo.com

Well, it ain't there anymore.

 

[Rocketvapor]

"I'll be back"

 

[2ndamendfan]

It's been well established that my personal opinion on 99.9958% of all government employees are in the wrong line of work.

That is because no one in the private sector will hire them.

Around here if you can't make a living in the private sector, you try and get a job at the local Air Force Base. They will higher anyone, if they wont higher you then the fail back is local city job. My uncle is a good example of that.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

@QuickNDirty , all was well-and-good until you started talking about "what they use in California...." That would be this:


.


Which is called the "EVERYTHING and ANYTHING causes Cancer in EVERY way" detector. And you can find those tiny devices ALL OVER the State.

 

[sjoliat]

First off, don't you already have a CO detector in your house? Should be at the lowest(ish) point. We have one here, in the basement.

I always thought that as well. A buddy of mine that is a firefighter told me when it came up while building my house that CO is pretty much neutrally buoyant and will evenly disperse within a room. Checked online and everything I found agreed. Probably good practice to have one near any combustion source.
Sorry for the disruption.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Many CO sensors are by default also hydrocarbon gas detectors (natural gas, propane, butane).
Here's one I like

Kidde Firex Plug-in Carbon Monoxide, Propane, Natural and Explosive Gas Detector, 9-Volt Battery Backup & Digital Display 21029623 - The Home Depot

Protect your family with the Kidde Firex Carbon Monoxide, Propane, Natural and Explosive Gas Detector, Hardwired with Battery Backup. The easy to install electrochemical Kidde Firex Carbon Monoxide, Propane,

www.homedepot.com

 

[cmoore806]

Even if it can measure levels of these substances does it even matter? Seems like foil hat and contrails time to me.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

$10k, reads nox, so2, 02, can be set up to read numerous other gasses. It stayed in the shop a lot.
It comes with a really nice pelican case, that will come in handy for other stuff when you get tired of that POS meter.
It's not a permanent setup, it's portable.

We also have a permanent CEM system.....it's a lot of money, numerous hundred Ks. Depending on setup and monitoring needs.

I don't know anything about Texas air quality laws.
Industry is usually very heavily regulated.
I'd say your council is wasting money, more importantly, I'd say they have figured a way to siphon off some money for personal gain.

What they are proposing is ridiculous.

I can't understand why you are wanting to build a cheaper mousetrap.
I am getting the impression you like their idea, you just think you can build it cheaper.

No city needs air quality monitors all over the city, it's retarded.

 

[QuickNDirty]

View attachment 7241694

$10k, reads nox, so2, 02, can be set up to read numerous other gasses. It stayed in the shop a lot.
It comes with a really nice pelican case, that will come in handy for other stuff when you get tired of that POS meter.
It's not a permanent setup, it's portable.

We also have a permanent CEM system.....it's a lot of money, numerous hundred Ks. Depending on setup and monitoring needs.

I don't know anything about Texas air quality laws.
Industry is usually very heavily regulated.
I'd say your council is wasting money, more importantly, I'd say they have figured a way to siphon off some money for personal gain.

What they are proposing is ridiculous.

I can't understand why you are wanting to build a cheaper mousetrap.
I am getting the impression you like their idea, you just think you can build it cheaper.

No city needs air quality monitors all over the city, it's retarded.

Pm me your address. Got a bottle of whiskey for you.

 

[QuickNDirty]

Even if it can measure levels of these substances does it even matter? Seems like foil hat and contrails time to me.

Shitloads of resources are wasted by the panicked sheep whenever they smell something funky.

I suspect the chikin is about 100% right, as well. People want to see the data, and this is being passed as a progressive tax on industry. Something I can argue on on multiple fronts.

Whoever said it earlier, if you don't want to deal with industry, GTFO... Spot on.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Pm me your address. Got a bottle of whiskey for you.

"Whahuh?"

 

[armorpl8chikn]

People want to see the data

Data, without a plan, or a goal, or an idea of what the data means, or data cause we like numbers, is worse than useless.
My boss is always coming up with shit for me to do, to generate numbers, cause his boss likes charts and numbers.
Fucking analytical personalities, I call them Eggheads.

I'm dealing with some major fuckery here at work tonight. Long story. Restart on our "equipment". I had to sleep today, so while I was away, they have quite possibly fucked it up so bad we will have to shut down again.

I've got the numbers in front of me. I've got some hard questions for my boss in tomorrow's staff meeting. Common data, they ignore. It's always a special project they want. Makes THEM look important.

That's part of the council's goal. To look important, is far better than being important.

 

[QuickNDirty]

Data, without a plan, or a goal, or an idea of what the data means, or data cause we like numbers, is worse than useless.
My boss is always coming up with shit for me to do, to generate numbers, cause his boss likes charts and numbers.
Fucking analytical personalities, I call them Eggheads.

I'm dealing with some major fuckery here at work tonight. Long story. Restart on our "equipment". I had to sleep today, so while I was away, they have quite possibly fucked it up so bad we will have to shut down again.

I've got the numbers in front of me. I've got some hard questions for my boss in tomorrow's staff meeting. Common data, they ignore. It's always a special project they want. Makes THEM look important.

That's part of the council's goal. To look important, is far better than being important.

Don't I fucking know it.

I've been asked to adopt and enforce a "measure it" mindset, with promotion, at my day job. Fucking clown world.

 

[QuickNDirty]

The most asinine part is this one dude claiming 12 years of plant experience and an extremely conservative Background had the audacity to say the AQM installs are a proactive measure.

They're literally a reaction to recent events....