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Gunsmithing Out-of-round M700 bolthead...

Wannashootit

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Sep 3, 2010
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    FL
    Factory M700 bolthead is out quite a bit...about .0035 when measured across the lugs vs. perpendicular to them.
    I know the bolt nose is thin (but no idea how thin); any concern with skimming a few thousandths here?
     
    I'm quite capable of doing the work.
    I'm just inquiring as to the thickness of the metal at the bolt nose. I wouldn't expect that it's thin enough that a few thousandths would be critical but wanted to check. I don't have a mike that can get in that slot to measure if I were to pull the extractor.
     
    Factory M700 bolthead is out quite a bit...about .0035 when measured across the lugs vs. perpendicular to them.
    I know the bolt nose is thin (but no idea how thin); any concern with skimming a few thousandths here?
    Are you talking about the diameter of the bolt nose that goes into the barrel counterbore? That dimension is not a critical dimension and I wouldn’t worry about it, as long as it’s not so large in any dimension that it contacts the counterbore. I’d leave it alone.
     
    If your talking about the .145-.150 nose portion ahead of the lugs then what Rubicon said, I always measure and take the biggest dimension and cut the counter bore dia off that.

    Casey
     
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    Are you talking about the diameter of the bolt nose that goes into the barrel counterbore? That dimension is not a critical dimension and I wouldn’t worry about it, as long as it’s not so large in any dimension that it contacts the counterbore. I’d leave it alone.

    Yep. Normally i don't mess with it (just a light skim on the back of the lugs) but this is out so much that i do have a clearance concern with the .705 counterbore I use.
    Guess it would be better to leave the nose alone, and use a boring bar to open the counterbore up a few thou additional. Thanks.
     
    If a magnum bolt face, use caution as the material is thinner although it can be lightly skimmed. If a smaller boltface you can turn it pretty much as you desire (within reason).
     
    It's nothing to take a skim cut off the front of the bolt nose and around the diameter of it.
    A 6 BR I had built by Steve Kostsnich over 20 years ago has this done. No issues at all.

    Think of it this way. A magnum bolt has a lot less around its perimeter than the .473 version has.
    It's not a problem.
     
    Yep. Normally i don't mess with it (just a light skim on the back of the lugs) but this is out so much that i do have a clearance concern with the .705 counterbore I use.
    Guess it would be better to leave the nose alone, and use a boring bar to open the counterbore up a few thou additional. Thanks.

    I just make counterbores .710" diameter to make sure nothing ever touches.
     
    What Dave and Rubicon said.

    The rifle will not know if you are clearing the countersink by 0.00001" or by 3 feet.
    It is a not player when it comes to accuracy, rigidity or strength of the system.

    I have seen more than one R700 bolt have to be rebuilt because it was simply dropped on something hard, nose down and split the small wall that retains the extractor. Don't fix it (and weaken it further) if it isn't broke.


    ./
     
    It seems most of the bolts are egg shaped in that area is that something that happens during machining or purposely done for clearance in the action ?

    Common sense "guess" would be that it's deformed when cutting the slot/clearance for the extractor, given that it's basically turned to sheet metal...

    I'm gonna get over my OCD on keeping clearances on the minimal side here- ordered a .710 counterbore.
    I do believe that you can have too much clearance in this application, as keeping it minimal would seem to be critical to containment in the event of a casehead failure. If I were going to cut a mile of clearance, no reason to have the counterbore at all, just keep a flat breech.

    I ain't saying there's anything wrong with a flat breech either, but there is that liability "thing" as we know...
     
    Common sense "guess" would be that it's deformed when cutting the slot/clearance for the extractor, given that it's basically turned to sheet metal...

    I'm gonna get over my OCD on keeping clearances on the minimal side here- ordered a .710 counterbore.
    I do believe that you can have too much clearance in this application, as keeping it minimal would seem to be critical to containment in the event of a casehead failure. If I were going to cut a mile of clearance, no reason to have the counterbore at all, just keep a flat breech.

    I ain't saying there's anything wrong with a flat breech either, but there is that liability "thing" as we know...



    When a cartridge goes rouge and decides to emulate an IED the function of the rifle becomes all things associated with venting that uncontrolled pressure. The quicker that happens, the less likely the shooter is to eat it in the face. I discovered this personally about 6 or so years ago.

    The original Bighorn actions made in CO had a bolt head retaining pin that was a bit anemic. The non-rotating breech plug behind the bolt head basically acts like a piston in an engine when a case gives up the goods. The pin sheared and the bolt shot out of the back of the receiver, snapping the fire control in half when it contacted the cheek piece. I ate the bolt head just below the right eye. An orbital fracture and torn retina along with a half dozen or so blown light bulbs throughout the shop from the shrapnel.

    If the "piston" had not been there, I'd of likely just gotten peppered with some powder/funk. I really wish manufacturers would rethink this pathway.

    -A friend of mine owns a Top Alcohol Funny Car that I get to make stuff for sometimes. A few years back he got a block made from a bad casting. Run #4 resulted in the block splitting in half. That dropped the crank. When it came back up the cam timing was now out of phase and it resulted in a "sneeze" going out of the intake system. The blow-off valve worked as designed, preventing the supercharger from lifting off the motor. What it also did was pressurize the entire cabin area. The brand new, $30,000.00 carbon fiber body blew off the car. Smile, wait for flash, instant convertible....all in about a 10th of a second. That was roughly a $140,000.00 fuck up.

    The car now has a line of sight pathway from the blast plate to outside of the car. -For the exact same reasons, I'm describing here. Experience is never cheap.

    Anyways. Clearance is a good thing as it checks a couple of boxes. 1, is the circumstance I just talked about. 2, is the need to make room for crap. Carbon, debris, mud, etc. . . The more room there is for this stuff to be squished someplace other than between the bolt nose and the breech ring, the better.

    The ultimate expression of this is when the counterbore is completely removed from the barrel.

    Savage, ARC, etc. . . the list is long. Nobody has any issue with the bolt "flopping around" in that environment. There's no reason to be "boxed into" the thought process that it has to happen here either.

    Open the shit up. Your face will thank you someday.

    C.
     
    Last edited:
    Chad,
    Always interesting to get your take. Not familiar with the bolt design that failed on you- wow. Not to dwell on that- but jeezus, engineers that design these are supposed to be better than that. My wife's a retinal tech, tears are scary shit.

    So, to the point.

    When you barrel an M700- do you cut the counterbore, or use a flat breech? Any consideration as to whether there's an extractor mod done?

    The effectiveness (or lack thereof) of the counterbore is above my pay grade. I've always "accepted" the premise that in the event of a case failure, the thin metal of the bolt nose would expand and further help contain/redirect forward the blast. Seems that unlike much of what we do that is subjective, this is something that can be tested under a range of different scenarios with real scientific data at the end.

    And again, deviating from the manufacturer's design would seem to be an invitation for an automatic lawsuit in the event of a failure- even if completely unrelated.
     
    Chad,
    Always interesting to get your take. Not familiar with the bolt design that failed on you- wow. Not to dwell on that- but jeezus, engineers that design these are supposed to be better than that. My wife's a retinal tech, tears are scary shit.

    So, to the point.

    When you barrel an M700- do you cut the counterbore, or use a flat breech? Any consideration as to whether there's an extractor mod done?

    The effectiveness (or lack thereof) of the counterbore is above my pay grade. I've always "accepted" the premise that in the event of a case failure, the thin metal of the bolt nose would expand and further help contain/redirect forward the blast. Seems that unlike much of what we do that is subjective, this is something that can be tested under a range of different scenarios with real scientific data at the end.

    And again, deviating from the manufacturer's design would seem to be an invitation for an automatic lawsuit in the event of a failure- even if completely unrelated.


    I've seen a gun here/there roll through where someone either skipped the counterbore or turned it into a cone. I've never done it that way, but there's no real reason it shouldn't work. If we waived a magic wand over an M700 bolt head and increased the lug height by rough .150" or so, the bolt would basically look like a pushfeed M70 from years ago. What's the story there? Flat breech and send it.

    This would be no different.

    The "3 rings of steel" thing was a gimmick that Remmy came up with way back whenever. Marketing. . . little more. When you have one of the oldest, most recognizable brands in the history of the US speaking, it commands an audience and the words tend to stick. Right or wrong.

    Once upon a time, I would keep my breech ring dimensioning conservative on the clearances by the bolt head. Once I started installing M16 extractors the reality of that bad idea set in because I had an alarming number of comebacks where I got to tear back into guns we'd already built. So...the process evolved and we opened up the CB. Smooth sailing ever since.

    I carry a doomsday policy and my insurance company knows exactly what I do and how we do it. The mere fact that I'm blueprinting OEM actions voids the manufacturer from any liability. If anyone ever got hurt, that'd be a chair I'd have to fight for once the music stopped. The only saving grace I have is that one particular OEM retains my services for a portion of their receiver work. It would be pretty challenging for a lawyer to argue I went off the reservation when the exact same work is provided by me as an out to service for the manufacturer.

    -One little feather in my cap I spose.