Enough w the cooling fans in your chambers

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

Idk when this became a thing but every range trip there’s a growing number of these highly annoying, high pitch whining, kazoos sticking out of rifles while guys don’t shoot and rather walk the line like it’s speed dating.

They are the Crossfit Vegan pyramid Scheme Jehovah Wittiness of the range; offering garbage tales of how they shot like shit before, and they still do but now. But they can add 45min between shots to play w their kazoo and bother me with their bullshit. “What Scope is that, have you tried NightForce, I was in the Army, can you shoot a mile, I’m gonna shoot a mile, I drive a Jeep, you come here often”

Is this trend going to continue or will this fad pass?

Barrel Fans, cause you like to buy shit and you don’t have friends.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Leaving your hearing protection on helps cut down on noises you find annoying from both machines and humans.

 

[seanh]

I can't think of ever seen anybody that that's an actual PRS shooter at the range use one. Those that I've seen with them appear to be what you've described. Or, you're simply new shooters that have read a bunch of stuff on the internet thinking that you have to have a barrel cooler.

I promise you this, you'll never see me with one. Will you might see me with is capped PVC tube filled up with water... shove the Barrel in for about 2 minutes...lol

 

[ForgeValley]

I understand the desire to do cold bore experimentation to see if cold bore shift is a thing for your rifle, I just don't know if the chamber/barrel coolers work in real life. The couple of times I have seen them in use, that was the explanation when I asked about it.

Don't see myself needing that information personally, I'm more interested in what my barrel does when heated up.

 

[Cheyenne Bodie]

Just wait until they discover the peltier effect and start breaking out the blowtorches.

 

[Longshot231]

Someone cooling their barrels with a fan doesn't bother me. I doubt that they do any good anyway.

However, I've been thinking of using a CO2 bicycle tire inflator with a flexible hose connected and shoved in the chamber.

At first I was worried that a the rapid cooling would cause problems with the metallurgy of the barrel.

I asked a friend who is experienced in metallurgy if that would damage the barrel. He told me that the only way for it to be damaged is the barrel needs to be red hot. We're talking glowing red hot.

After a short string of 3-5 shots a couple of blasts of CO2 ought to get it back down to a tolerable temperature. There should not be any condensation forming on the metal because it's too hot to begin with.

Perhaps some metallurgy experts can chime in here with their insights.

PS: Another alternative is using a portable air compressor if electricity is available.

 

[Supersubes]

Someone cooling their barrels with a fan doesn't bother me. I doubt that they do any good anyway.

However, I've been thinking of using a CO2 bicycle tire inflator with a flexible hose connected and shoved in the chamber.

At first I was worried that a the rapid cooling would cause problems with the metallurgy of the barrel.

I asked a friend who is experienced in metallurgy if that would damage the barrel. He told me that the only way for it to be damaged is the barrel needs to be red hot. We're talking glowing red hot.

After a short string of 3-5 shots a couple of blasts of CO2 ought to get it back down to a tolerable temperature. There should not be any condensation forming on the metal because it's too hot to begin with.

Perhaps some metallurgy experts can chime in here with their insights.

PS: Another alternative is using a portable air compressor if electricity is available.

Cooling the barrel after 3-5 shots is part of the ridiculousness that the OP is talking about.

 

[Fig]

Ok, I'll be the vegan, man-bun, faggot...

I have these temp strips on all my comp sticks. I don't put them on hunting rifles, because I'm not putting 150 rounds through them in a day.

Once you become fully aware of barrel temp you start paying a lot more attention, as nothing roaches your barrel out and reduces life faster than heating up a barrel in continuous fire. My unscientific, experience only, opinion after a dozen re-barrels is that keeping the temp down extends life as much as a few hundred shots. This tracks with my experience with destroying MAK-90 barrels in a single sitting by getting them red hot in the '90s.

It's a matter of not wanting to sit there doing nothing while my barrel cools. I almost always bring at least a .22 if not a half dozen rifles to shoot while my barrel cools. I use a homemade cooler made out of this with a few fittings. Total of about $7 and it does work well. I'd say it cools off ten minuets faster than if it just sat.

So there you go.

Speaking of pussy ass, man-bun, faggots, how many levels are on your scope?

 

[rtB]

Do you also bring avocado toast to the range to munch on while your barrel cools?

 

[Fig]

I keep the avocado separate to lube my fleshlight for inbetween strings.

 

[sea2summit]

Hmmm. My primary concern is hunting so cold bore/cold shooter shots are the most important part of a range session for me. I commonly use an IR thermometer on the chamber, last few inches of the barrel and the can when I’m doing this. Depending on the ambient temp it usually took 10-15 minutes to cool everything down after a single shot. With a chiller it’s usually 5-7.

One thing with them is normal ear pro is pretty benign but they will terrorize your electronic ear pro, you gotta turn them off.

FWIW I don’t use public ranges if I can help it, think I shot on one twice in the last year.

 

[Longshot231]

Cooling the barrel after 3-5 shots is part of the ridiculousness that the OP is talking about.

Well, it looks like I will have to find something less disturbing. If the constant whirring of barrel coolers upsets some folks imagine what the blast of a gaseous substance meant for airguns and seltzer bottles would do.

I would deign to avoid any device which creates such an annoying affectation to the point of apoplexy with the gentleman or gentlewoman slinging lead from the bench next to mine.

So I guess farting is out of the question

 

[Fig]

Oh yea, all my rifles are suppressed. Does the OP run brakes? Asking for a friend.

 

[seanh]

For the guys that cool your barrels, do you also have an umbrella for them so they don't sit out in the sun?

 

[Lowlight]

Heat is the enemy, anyway you slice it and we do put a high number of rounds through our rifles.

They suck in ear pro, but I consider them a valid tool for the precision rifle shooter. Especially in class, even with the hunting rifles we see, as we limit those guys to 3 rounds in a string, a cooler can help us come back to that shooter faster.

The whirling sucks, but I would recommend them for most. The MagnetoSpeed Riflkuhl is not nearly as loud as some others, and there is one F Class version that is pretty quiet but I don't know the name.

 

[MtnCreek]

For the guys that cool your barrels, do you also have an umbrella for them so they don't sit out in the sun?

No fan, but I do put them in the grass under the truck to cool when it's hot out.

 

[Longshot231]

For the guys that cool your barrels, do you also have an umbrella for them so they don't sit out in the sun?

I don't have an umbrella but shoot in the shade whenever possible.

 

[Fig]

OAF

 

[AznTactical]

Yes I use a rifle cooler. Yes it's annoying. Yes it works because I used my friend's Leupold LTO to see the heat signature coming out of my muzzle brake or suppressor.

 

[Lowlight]

Especially in CO when we do classes we always recommend students cover the rifles when not actively engaged in shooting or are off the rifles

Heat is the enemy, including the sun, it cooks ammo, and keeps the rifles from cooling off

 

[Jgunner]

Went out to cow town a couple weeks ago. Before even shooting my chassis was hot to the touch, as in too hot. 4:00 in an Az afternoon will do that. It was in the sun so i moved it into the little shade we had. After a 5 round string the barrel was really hot. I was shooting suppressed which doesn’t help. Let it cool in the shade again but a 10 round string was really pushing my comfortable limit.

yes, i want a barrel chiller, for the 3-4 months out of the year that i am not wearing my barrel prematurely. It can’t hurt.

pic added, but it was almost 7:00 when taken already half cleaned up.

 

[hlee]

Leaving your hearing protection on helps cut down on noises you find annoying from both machines and humans.

Not really. I double up with plugs and muffs. My muffs are sound amplifying so that I can kind of hear people talking (range commands, general bull shitting at a comp stage, etc) and the whine of these barrel coolers is like having a drone buzzing around inside of your head.

I can't think of ever seen anybody that that's an actual PRS shooter at the range use one. Those that I've seen with them appear to be what you've described. Or, you're simply new shooters that have read a bunch of stuff on the internet thinking that you have to have a barrel cooler.

I promise you this, you'll never see me with one. Will you might see me with is capped PVC tube filled up with water... shove the Barrel in for about 2 minutes...lol

These things are starting to show up at the local match that I shoot. "Who's got the drone buzzing around? Fuck, its really annoying. Oh, its a barrel cooler. Move to the next stage already..."

I did see a shooter with a portable black & decker fan that is probably more effective than the barrel coolers. And, it is quieter too. I may got this route at the next match. My son and i share a rifle, so we are putting 2x the rounds down range every stage that the other shooters are...

 

[kenny1773]

I bring a Ho with big tits to the range, use the tits to shade the rifle
and no barrel cooler can match the blowing power of a good Ho

 

[equilibrium]

Instead of concentrating on your drama class and being the top student you should have paid attention in thermodynamics.

 

[roostercogburn98]

I’m confused, do I need one or not? Tractor supply has one I was thinking about but not sure it would be enough?

 

[Mr.BR]

Heat is the enemy, anyway you slice it and we do put a high number of rounds through our rifles.

They suck in ear pro, but I consider them a valid tool for the precision rifle shooter. Especially in class, even with the hunting rifles we see, as we limit those guys to 3 rounds in a string, a cooler can help us come back to that shooter faster.

The whirling sucks, but I would recommend them for most. The MagnetoSpeed Riflkuhl is not nearly as loud as some others, and there is one F Class version that is pretty quiet but I don't know the name.

Not always the case

Some like it hot .

Conventional wisdom suggests we should keep our barrels cool ,but a Swiss study published by Hans-Peter Sigg sugests keeping them warm prolongs the barrel life considerably.
Idea for the study came from military tests on SIG550 assault rifles for Swiss military, stress tests where 8000 rounds were fired at rapid rates and then accuracy tested showed that rifles met the standards but in military use rifle accuracy due to barrel wear declined much faster even tough rifles are shot at a relatively sedate rate far below acceptance testing standards. Other militaries had the same experience with various rifles, so tests were made to study the mechanism of barrel wear. Microscope inspection shows microcracks appear on firing the first round in the barrel and pattern of cracks stays till the barrel is toast cracks just get bigger and deeper, cracks open and close on each firing but more so with a cool barrel ,while machineguns can easily pass the heat threshold for the barrels, bolt action rifles can not come close to material limits of barrel steel.
Even more, tests have shown that slow shooting in common to most target shooting disciplines fails to heat up the barrel to its optimal operating temperature inducing more severe fire cracking than would happen on ''warmed up '' barrel, that is also one of the reasons for good performance of stainless barrels due to slow heat transfer benefit due to both slower cooling and poor bonding of brass to its surface. even though the SS is in many ways inferior to chrome-moly steel.
The study found that In terms of material properties, hammer-forged stainless barrels show great promise(for assault rifles) but the manufacturing process induces to much stress into the barrel to produce reliably accurate barrels.

In my opinion, the fans are viable for cold bore purposes, for the same reason gunsmiths working hunting arms use them for past 100+ years , but i have my doubts of any gain to barrel life from them.I personally use them 3-4 of my oven design and also Riflequhl from Magnetospeed that is just the most anoying in terms of noise (its beyond me who taught that the product is ready for prime time)

Sigg made a living fabricating high end 300m match rifles with fully insulated barrels.Carbon fiber tube chassis with free float barrel sealed off with a sponge type seal to keep the barrel warm for the course of fire. 300m is a very popular discipline in Switzerland, Of course, the fire rate of a 300m match is super low

Article is in German
http://sv-muenchwilen.ch/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/laufverschleiss.pdf
https://docplayer.org/20850342-Warmhalten-statt-kuehlen.html

 

[Aries256]

Those fans typically dont do jack, esp with a heavy barrel. You would need some sort of heatsink to be effective. Now a 30 in airplane engine of a fan might do some good, but not some 20cfm laptop fan.

 

[Milo 2.5]

I have a riflekuhl, it works, you can feel the air temp exiting the muzzle. I usually have 2-3 rifles where I do not need it. I do have one friend who owns 1 rifle, so mine gets use. Can say, the first shot after a cool down in his rifle, a thinner barrel Bergera can be interesting.
Only time I use it myself, if idiots are present, I slap it in, walk away, because yes, it is annoying.

 

[theLBC]

helps keep my level cool!

 

[deersniper]

Ok, I'll be the vegan, man-bun, faggot...

I have these temp strips on all my comp sticks. I don't put them on hunting rifles, because I'm not putting 150 rounds through them in a day.

Once you become fully aware of barrel temp you start paying a lot more attention, as nothing roaches your barrel out and reduces life faster than heating up a barrel in continuous fire. My unscientific, experience only, opinion after a dozen re-barrels is that keeping the temp down extends life as much as a few hundred shots. This tracks with my experience with destroying MAK-90 barrels in a single sitting by getting them red hot in the '90s.

It's a matter of not wanting to sit there doing nothing while my barrel cools. I almost always bring at least a .22 if not a half dozen rifles to shoot while my barrel cools. I use a homemade cooler made out of this with a few fittings. Total of about $7 and it does work well. I'd say it cools off ten minuets faster than if it just sat.

So there you go.

Speaking of pussy ass, man-bun, faggots, how many levels are on your scope?

I have one of those coolers sitting on my gun bench nib

If waiting to cool and all that BS only gets me a few hundred extra rounds on a $4-700 prefit then I won’t worry about barrel heat ever again.

 

[Fig]

Not always the case

Some like it hot .

Conventional wisdom suggests we should keep our barrels cool ,but a Swiss study published by Hans-Peter Sigg sugests keeping them warm prolongs the barrel life considerably.
Idea for the study came from military tests on SIG550 assault rifles for Swiss military, stress tests where 8000 rounds were fired at rapid rates and then accuracy tested showed that rifles met the standards but in military use rifle accuracy due to barrel wear declined much faster even tough rifles are shot at a relatively sedate rate far below acceptance testing standards. Other militaries had the same experience with various rifles, so tests were made to study the mechanism of barrel wear. Microscope inspection shows microcracks appear on firing the first round in the barrel and pattern of cracks stays till the barrel is toast cracks just get bigger and deeper, cracks open and close on each firing but more so with a cool barrel , while the machineguns can easily pass the heat threshold for the barrels, bolt action rifles can not come close to material limits .
Even more, tests have shown that slow shooting in common to most target shooting disciplines fails to heat up the barrel to its optimal operating temperature inducing more severe fire cracking than would happen on ''warmed up '' barrel, that is also one of the reasons for good performance of stainless barrels due to slow heat transfer benefit due to both slower cooling and poor bonding of brass to its surface. even though the SS is in many ways inferior to chrome-moly steel.
The study found that In terms of material properties, hammer-forged stainless barrels show great promise(for assault rifles) but the manufacturing process induces to much stress into the barrel to produce reliably accurate barrels.

In my opinion, the fans are viable for cold bore purposes, for the same reason gunsmiths working hunting arms use them for past 100+ years , but i have my doubts of any gain to barrel life from them.

Warm is the norm. "Hot" is not.

 

[10ring'r]

Yeah, I've noticed the same thing at my 600yd. shoots. Guy shows up to the bench next to me, drags a cart, with chrono, bags, sled, tablet, fan, etc., then goes back to vehicle and gets gun. I have to put my elec. ear pro. on, just to hear the R.O. explain the match rules and safety guidelines, due to the fact that, that same guy is cooling his gun and we haven't even fired a shot yet. I feel soooo poor, because, I show up with my rifle, bag, ammo and chair.
Mac

 

[Flyingbullseye]

Unless you're using one of these upside down you're doing it wrong.

 

[deersniper]

Unless you're using one of these upside down you're doing it wrong.

View attachment 7397704

Someone cracked the lens on a Bender with one of them at a class lmao. Tried to clean the lens dust with it upside down

 

[Fig]

I have one of those coolers sitting on my gun bench nib

If waiting to cool and all that BS only gets me a few hundred extra rounds on a $4-700 prefit then I won’t worry about barrel heat ever again.

How Fast Does A Barrel Erode?

A match-grade barrel is a big investment for many shooters, so how much life you can expect from it...

precisionrifleblog.com

Practical Tips to Extend Barrel Life

With the number of “overbore” rifle cartridges popular today, barrel erosion is becoming a hot topic...

precisionrifleblog.com

I don't know I've seen anywhere else that heat is not the enemy of barrel life, or even that it doesn't matter.
I'd say it depends on what you're shooting. Do you typically get 200 shots out of a barrel, 1,800, 10,000? I think how much more life you get mitigating heat depends on a lot of factors. I agree that having a big 'ol fat barrel helps probably more than anything conduction and convection working like it does.

 

[Powder_Burns]

Used to bring an IR thermometer to the range when I was shooting 300 WM. When barrel got north of 150°F I’d switch to rimfire for awhile. But fans? Nah.

 

[Fig]

I'm sure it all depends on your schedule and how much time you have on the range. I'm always trying to fit ten pounds of shit into a five pound shit-bag, so sitting and waiting for the barrel to get cool is a drag.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Used to bring an IR thermometer to the range when I was shooting 300 WM. When barrel got north of 150°F I’d switch to rimfire for awhile. But fans? Nah.

When I am doing load dev, I want my barrel temp at around mid range, not cool, not hot, IMO, the fan works, esp if you want to continue shooting conditions. If i am shooting in 8 mph winds, I'd just as soon all shots fall in this window, Job goes faster.

 

[Seed tick]

Small window air conditioner with a generator . Works like a dam charm!

 

[Baron23]

Went out to cow town a couple weeks ago. Before even shooting my chassis was hot to the touch, as in too hot. 4:00 in an Az afternoon will do that. It was in the sun so i moved it into the little shade we had. After a 5 round string the barrel was really hot. I was shooting suppressed which doesn’t help. Let it cool in the shade again but a 10 round string was really pushing my comfortable limit.

yes, i want a barrel chiller, for the 3-4 months out of the year that i am not wearing my barrel prematurely. It can’t hurt.

pic added, but it was almost 7:00 when taken already half cleaned up.

Wow, AZ in August at 4pm. Now that's dedication, mate.

 

[Mordamer]

Stainless steel doesn't start losing hardness drastically until over 500 degrees F. At 600 degrees F the steel has about 85% of the hardness of at room temperature depending on whose chart you use. At 400 degrees F the steel has ~95% hardness. At 1,000 degrees F the steel has about ~60% hardness.

What kills barrels is a high rate of fire. This is because the internal surface of the steel is heated to incredibly high temperatures immediately after a shot. The internal temperature is what matters because that is the material directly acted on by the exploding gasses and the copper jacket. If the next shot is taken before the heat has had a chance to conduct into the rest of the barrel steel then the wear on the barrel is higher. This is unavoidable in PRS type competitions because you are forced to shoot shots only seconds apart.

The temp strip on the outside of the barrel does not always have a direct correlation to the internal temperature.

Based on this information I believe barrel coolers are completely useless for PRS competitions. The rate of fire is predetermined and my barrel will cool between stages. The barrel cooler may get the barrel to a slightly lower initial temperature when the next stage starts, but when you are talking hundreds of degrees surface temperature after a few shots I don't think being 20 degrees cooler to start with matters that much.

If ultimate barrel life is a serious concern then don't shoot timed stage competitions and don't fire shots with less than 10 seconds between each shot (this is just a rule of thumb, longer is better). Allow time between shots for the heat to transfer from inside the barrel to the rest of the steel. One way to see how long this takes is to fire 5 shots as fast as you can and then start watching your external barrel temp with an infrared thermometer. It takes awhile for the outside of the barrel to get to max temperature after the string of shots.

Also, the most effective barrel cooling technique I have seen is an old t-shirt wetted with a bottle of water and draped/rapped around the barrel between stages. This removes heat from the barrel way faster than a fan.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

Ive got one that i only use in 2 instances. Summer time matches here in the South East where its 100deg + outside and if you dont have shade and/or the ability to cool your barrel, your barrel is the temperature of Satan's hairy ball bag for the entire match. For me, its not just a concept of saving my barrel as much as it is excess mirage right in front of my scope. Rarely do we have shade to stage rifles so the barrels have 0 opportunity to cool. I, like everyone else, find their sound to be utterly fucking annoying, so i consciously set my rifle away from everyone else if at all possible. 2nd time i use it is for load development in my back yard. I want the barrel temp to be close to the same temp for each load i shoot in hopes to keep everything the same. Im fortunate enough to have plenty of space to shoot at my house so im not bothering anyone with excess noise.

 

[Joel Danielson]

Especially in CO when we do classes we always recommend students cover the rifles when not actively engaged in shooting or are off the rifles

Heat is the enemy, including the sun, it cooks ammo, and keeps the rifles from cooling off

Anyone who has left a round in the chamber for more than 10 seconds after having 10+ rounds go down the tube in about 5 minutes (think F-class shooters), will know how bad heat is on their ammo. If I see a wind/mirage change after that round has been chambered for more than 10 seconds, it will be removed and used later in the firing sequence. Heat will change POI because of higher pressures.

 

[littlepod]

Heat is the enemy, anyway you slice it and we do put a high number of rounds through our rifles.

They suck in ear pro, but I consider them a valid tool for the precision rifle shooter. Especially in class, even with the hunting rifles we see, as we limit those guys to 3 rounds in a string, a cooler can help us come back to that shooter faster.

The whirling sucks, but I would recommend them for most. The MagnetoSpeed Riflkuhl is not nearly as loud as some others, and there is one F Class version that is pretty quiet but I don't know the name.

I bought the rifle kuhl after the Alaska class. At our range we do target changes, so I throw it in the barrel during the 5min target change break. Every little cooling helps so I can do more shooting without overheating the barrel. It is pretty damn annoying/whiny in the ear pro, but it was effective. Especially when shooting suppressed and the suppressor is keeping things trapped, it definitely helped cool things down.

 

[D_TROS]

….

Speaking of pussy ass, man-bun, faggots, how many levels are on your scope?

Ha nice. I got all of them!!

But on point, they help. Annoying as anything but helpful.

2 instances I would never be without one.

1- Suppressor shooting. Suppressors change noise into even more heat. And then they trap the heat. if you don't blow that out it cooks it even more than the powder burn. Shot a match with a friend we did side by side comparisions same exact rifle. His was cool enough to touch by next stage. Mine still too hot to touch.

2 - any high round count stage or shooting over 90*. again did the test, even last weekend at the Hornady match. friend had his fan going and how fast getting air going through the barrel helps is crazy. I believe more to push the hot air out than cooling the steel, but even that is a substantial deal.

But no I would nvr use one at a public range lol.

GL!
DT

 

[...]

" i shoot PRS because its practical shooting that mimics real life scenarios"

"hey has anyone seen my barrel cooler?.....my mirage bands?......and damnit where did i leave my pump pillows!...oh, theyre under my sponsor jersey"

 

[Baron23]

How Fast Does A Barrel Erode?

A match-grade barrel is a big investment for many shooters, so how much life you can expect from it...

precisionrifleblog.com

Practical Tips to Extend Barrel Life

With the number of “overbore” rifle cartridges popular today, barrel erosion is becoming a hot topic...

precisionrifleblog.com

I don't know I've seen anywhere else that heat is not the enemy of barrel life, or even that it doesn't matter.
I'd say it depends on what you're shooting. Do you typically get 200 shots out of a barrel, 1,800, 10,000? I think how much more life you get mitigating heat depends on a lot of factors. I agree that having a big 'ol fat barrel helps probably more than anything conduction and convection working like it does.

While I do generally really like Cal Zant articles quite a bit, I do not think these articles (while informative) are the type of objective and data driven results alluded to by @Mr.BR in the Euro military study.

While I can't contribute an objective data to this discussion also, I do know that expansion and contraction from heating/cooling cycles in general ain't bueno for metal. Crap on electronics also

Cheers

 

[kindabitey]

The rifle kuhl is the most obnoxious of the three coolers I have, with the original Barrel Cool coming in a close second.
The Chamber Chiller moves the most volume of air, based on my very unscientific testing, and you can barely hear it running with elec. ear pro on.

 

[lash]

 

[davsco]

Leaving your hearing protection on helps cut down on noises you find annoying from both machines and humans.

no the prob is the electronic earpro picks up, and then some, the annoying whirring fans.