K16i illum will appear much brighter on the dot-based reticles (3gr, G4b, Sm2) than the others. It is still not as bright as an NX8, but the scope in most other performance factors is so far ahead of the NX8 that I think it is worth your time. I went from K16i to NX8 and back to K16i again.
Rifle Scopes NF Atacr 1-8 vs vortex gen 3 1-10
- Thread starter Happiness Is A Warm Gun
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K16i illum will appear much brighter on the dot-based reticles (3gr, G4b, Sm2) than the others. It is still not as bright as an NX8, but the scope in most other performance factors is so far ahead of the NX8 that I think it is worth your time. I went from K16i to NX8 and back to K16i again.
I love everything about the Atacr except the FOV, on paper it’s “narrower” compares to others. But in real life, does it appear that way?
Which reticle are you using now? I’m think I like SM1 the most but SI1 will work too.
The k16i is awesome!
How do you think they compare on 1x?
I have the sm1 reticle and think it is super bright, but I don't have all that much experience compared to the people on this site with higher end scopes.
- Apr 17, 2019
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Sight picture, resolution, and FOV is great in both, the most noticeable difference is a slight fish-eye effect around the very edge of the image in the Razor, but nothing I would necessarily consider a deal-breaker and may not even be noticed by the majority.
I’m thinking to purchase the scalarworks - razor combo. What other mount should I consider? May be badgers?
Theres quite a few that would work, Seekins MXM, Badger Unimount or condition One, SPUHR, Nightforce, you've got options.
I have the Razor in an Aadmount, but a bunch of others would work too. If you pick up Scalarworks mount, make sure your rail is a true 1913 Picatinny rail. If you are not sure, I would lean toward a Stanag-type clamp. Scaralrworks is a 1913 clamp that squeezes the rail from two sides. It works well on in spec rails, but can have funky effects if something is out of spec.
ILya
ILya
thanks for the info. I’m planning to on SR15. I think it should be okay
I really like the 1.7 condition one mount too.
I would be confident in a kac rifle being in spec for sure.
Cant go wrong with the actacr. I just got one yesturday. Nuclear bright. Smooth magnification. Can run open turrets if you want, it comes with vanity thread covers for open turrets.
hows do you like the FOV? From spec, it’s quite narrow, less than 100 feet.
Honestly hard to tell on 1 power i run one eye open . Also at 8x im focused on my target area. I really dont mind not great fov on a scope. If it were a spotting scope yes. For a battle rifle scope and its perfect for me. I doubt this helps but its all i got sorry
I have the ATRCR, I also have the k16i, I also have the razor 1-6, my razor 1-10 is coming soon. I compete heavily in 3 gun. Each has strengths and weaknesses, K16i I use in matches where max range is 300ish and I need to be fast and light for close and medium targets. The big eyebox and huge fov are fast off hand in and out of compromised positions. Trying to shoot through the bottom notch in a vtac wall on your belly is surprisingly pleasant with the kahles at moderate magnification. The ATACR is a beautiful robust scope clarity is amazing nicest one to look through, my big problem is running and gunning is not ideal since the eye box and fov can be picky. Off a bench or prone great, pretzeled up behind some pile of wood breathing hard is anoying. It is clear enough to shoot extremely well but at this price the eyebox bugs me. Razors have good eyeboxes and good fov, if the razor 3 has a good middle ground between these two it will probably be fastest overall 3gun scope for me. I need more forgiving than NF but bit more mag and ffp vs kahles. We shal see soon.
I am a competitive 3gun shooter so the offset dot only allowed in open divisions which are not always what I am shooting. Also the eyebox only really bothers me at 8x in a compromised or unsteady position shooting at distance so no help there.
Does anyone has the illumination issue with their Atacr?
Mine came in last week, at 1x, the illumination will dim if your head doesn’t align correctly and at 8x, the illumination will disappear instead. Not sure if this only happen to my scope or this is a known issue.
I suspect this is same type of issue that MK6 has, being FFP, but my NX8 doesn’t have this issue at all.
By the way, Atacr is not as bright as NX8
Mine came in last week, at 1x, the illumination will dim if your head doesn’t align correctly and at 8x, the illumination will disappear instead. Not sure if this only happen to my scope or this is a known issue.
I suspect this is same type of issue that MK6 has, being FFP, but my NX8 doesn’t have this issue at all.
By the way, Atacr is not as bright as NX8
My ATACR is plenty bright but yes the illumination is picky about where you are in the eyebox, this is my frustration with this scope, disappointing in the $3k class which is a small club in ffp lpvos. The vortex is going to own this space if it doesn't suck, which I doubt it does.
Yeah, I feel the same. I pony up to buy the best possible LVPO I could find, but at the end I’m somewhat disappointed. Glass is great though, but doesn’t commend the price NF is asking
This is known issue for MK6, but that scope came to market 6 years before Atacr. I was hoping this is 1 off issue but if I guess not.
finger cross on the new gen 3 razor, hopefully it’s as good as they claim to be.
This is known issue for MK6, but that scope came to market 6 years before Atacr. I was hoping this is 1 off issue but if I guess not.
finger cross on the new gen 3 razor, hopefully it’s as good as they claim to be.
The atacr is beautiful to look through but at the end of the day I have to shoot stuff, far away, as fast as I can often in uncomfortable positions and situations, this scope does this but not as well as I wish it did. If vortex g3 glass is as good as g2 I expect it to be faster if its a little more forgiving. The view won't take your breath away but it may shoot better.
I've run it through Strelok a few ways, and some loads that really look like they match pretty well are M193 @ 3150fps, M855 @ 3000 fps, 69gr SMK @ 2850fps, and 77gr SMK @ 2750fps. Hot take is that it's really designed around hot lighter loads out of an 18" barrel. The heavier stuff is probably going to require a 20" barrel to make necessary velocities.
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wow. So many comments.
I tell customers if you have only one scope you can buy, it should be the ATACR 1-8x. Truly remakable, and bullet proof. That said, up until this week, the Razor HD-II 1-6x has been hard to beat. Almost as good as the Nightforce, at 1/2 the price. Now, I do not think the Razor will withstand the beating of an ATACR, but the 1-6x Razor HD has proven itself to be a great value and a good optic, and much more consitent quality than the higher magnification Razors which have been hit or miss out of the box.
But, with the Razonr Gen-III priced just between the 1-6x and the ATACR, I think the Gen-III 1-10x will be one of the best selling scopes this year.
How do they compare? The 1-10x Gen III does very well. Optics are like shoes. Everyone feels a different fit. At a price point $800 or so below the ATACR, it will be hard to justify the extra money, unless your life depends upon it. Or, you just don;t need 10x.
I have had the same arguement with the execs at S&B about their 1-8x Dual CC. They argue it is the best engineered LPVO on the market. They, of course, are correct. Germans are great engineers. But at $k or more over the ATACR, do you really need two focal planes in an 8x scope. Engineering and efficiency are different. I still respect the S&B scope, but at what point do you say, "okay, this is good enough ?" The same is true, in my opinion of the ATACR v. Razor Gen-III. Quality, usefulness, versatility and durability: my vote goes to Nightforce. Great scope and great value, and the ability to zoom further: Vortex.
Personal preference.
I tell customers if you have only one scope you can buy, it should be the ATACR 1-8x. Truly remakable, and bullet proof. That said, up until this week, the Razor HD-II 1-6x has been hard to beat. Almost as good as the Nightforce, at 1/2 the price. Now, I do not think the Razor will withstand the beating of an ATACR, but the 1-6x Razor HD has proven itself to be a great value and a good optic, and much more consitent quality than the higher magnification Razors which have been hit or miss out of the box.
But, with the Razonr Gen-III priced just between the 1-6x and the ATACR, I think the Gen-III 1-10x will be one of the best selling scopes this year.
How do they compare? The 1-10x Gen III does very well. Optics are like shoes. Everyone feels a different fit. At a price point $800 or so below the ATACR, it will be hard to justify the extra money, unless your life depends upon it. Or, you just don;t need 10x.
I have had the same arguement with the execs at S&B about their 1-8x Dual CC. They argue it is the best engineered LPVO on the market. They, of course, are correct. Germans are great engineers. But at $k or more over the ATACR, do you really need two focal planes in an 8x scope. Engineering and efficiency are different. I still respect the S&B scope, but at what point do you say, "okay, this is good enough ?" The same is true, in my opinion of the ATACR v. Razor Gen-III. Quality, usefulness, versatility and durability: my vote goes to Nightforce. Great scope and great value, and the ability to zoom further: Vortex.
Personal preference.
I had an hour long phone conversation with a Vortex engineer, and I now squarely believe that the Vortex Razor Gen 3 1-10 scope in MOA is indeed the best low-power combat optic out there, IF you use it to shoot 5.56. The MOA BDC reticle was calibrated for a special hand-loaded 60 grain VMAX round fired out of an 18" barrel. Vortex has special software which shows the estimated range for each holdover, for any 5.56 round you put into it, together with barrel length. I want to shoot with a 77gr SMK round in my 20" barrel precision rifle. Vortex told me that if I had a 200 yard zero, at 100 yards I would be 1.35" high, 295 yards at the 300 yard holdover (3), 395 yards at the 400 yard holdover (4), 497 yards at the 500 yard holdover (5) and 607 yards at the 600 yard holdover. This is just around a 1% error in ranging. That's damn good.
Now for the 60gr VMAX around which the reticle was designed, with a 200 yard zero, at 100 yards I would be 0.96 MOA high, 301 yards at the 300 yard holdover (3), 402 yards at the 400 yard holdover (4), 500 yards at the 500 yard holdover (5) and 598 yards at the 600 yard holdover. Imagine using the M855 round (62gr) here, you would get amazingly fast and accurate shots with that BDC.
Now for the 60gr VMAX around which the reticle was designed, with a 200 yard zero, at 100 yards I would be 0.96 MOA high, 301 yards at the 300 yard holdover (3), 402 yards at the 400 yard holdover (4), 500 yards at the 500 yard holdover (5) and 598 yards at the 600 yard holdover. Imagine using the M855 round (62gr) here, you would get amazingly fast and accurate shots with that BDC.
What velocity was that VMAX? Agree that it's clear this scope was calibrated for an 18" barrel.
I've had the kahles 1-6, NX8, and ATACR.
ATACR gave me the best combo of having a good eyebox & FOV while being robust and 'military' grade when it came to reticle, turrets, etc.
ATACR gave me the best combo of having a good eyebox & FOV while being robust and 'military' grade when it came to reticle, turrets, etc.
Lots of great feedback! I am still on the fence, but have several months before I have the money anyway.
If you are interested in the Vortex, you either need to act now, or wait 9 months. The period in between is likely to be long lines and back-orders, if I am correct in predicting this to be the hottest scope of 2020. My vote still goes to the ATACR, but not by a wide margin. We sell both, and just got our first case of Razor's in today. 3/4 of which were spoken for before FedEx hit the ramp.
I was able to shoot the new razor 1-10 side by side with my ATACR today. I won't take the time for a long review now but quick answer for me as a high level competitive 3gun shooter the Vortex is the better scope. I was always disappointed with the eyebox and fov on the Nightforce especially for the price. I see a lot of positive comments on the ATACR mostly from people who don't use it the way I do. It is a beautiful scope and I'm keeping it, but the vortex is now on my primary race rifle. Nightforce has clear advantage on glass quality. The difference in 1x openness of the view with nuclear illumination combined with wider fov and more forgiving box at 8x makes the vortex clearly better for what I need. The extra 2x is just an added bonus , made it quick to zero.
Thanks. Rare to see what have to be honest comparisons from people who actually have time on both.
I have no relationship with either company. They both support my sport and I have won optics from both companies but I paid for both of these and my Kahles. The Nightforce oozes quality but I will be faster with the Razor.
All great info and insight. Thanks! I had been torn between the ATACR and the Razor G3 until reading this thread. I had already been leaning towards the Razor since it was several hundred $$$ cheaper. Also thanks to @kukworld for pointing out the scalarworks mount/combo. I was looking at Sphur since that what I have on my precision gun, but the scalar looks much lighter and sleeker. Question, if I were to run the Razor Gen 3 on an AR or the Desert Tech MDR, what height mount would be best, or is this preference as well? Don't think I'd be willing to buy two mounts just to test and send one back.
I also believe my boat has sailed for getting the Razor Gen 3 anytime soon... can't find it anywhere. Was hoping to using my first responder discount from Vortex but, looks like it'll be a long time
I also believe my boat has sailed for getting the Razor Gen 3 anytime soon... can't find it anywhere. Was hoping to using my first responder discount from Vortex but, looks like it'll be a long time
I’m using the Badger condition one 1.7 height mount for RG3.
Comparing both Atacr vs RG3 here is my thoughts
Glass quality...Atacr has better glass, but has less FOV. At 1x, both scope has slight magnification, Atacr is little worst than RG3
Illumination: RG3 is much brighter and it doesn’t exhibit “flickering” like Atacr does.
Form factor: both roughly the same size and weight. Both build like a tank but Atacr fit and finish feel “better”
Eye relief: I feel Atacr has better eye relief and it’s pretty forgiving to your head position. Vortex claims RG3 it’s similar to RG2, but for some reason, I still feel RG2 is ever so slightly more forgiving than RG3. I don’t have any data to support that though, but that’s my honest opinion. May be it’s in my head, can anyone share their experience?
I like Atacr has build in throw lever, and RG3 comes with one. Both can turn the magnification ring smoothly but Atacr entire eye piece rotates.
RG3 it’s about 2k brand new and Atacr is about 2100-2400 in the used market.
I think both scopes are great for AR10 rifle. For 556 gas guns, I still perfer MK6 or K16i due to light weight. (And yes, I can feel the 4ozs lol). Currently my RG3 is sitting on a 14.5, I may move to my SPR, I’m still somewhat reluctant to replace my 2.5-10 m, I’m waiting to bring it to long distant rifle range before to make any changes on SPR.
Comparing both Atacr vs RG3 here is my thoughts
Glass quality...Atacr has better glass, but has less FOV. At 1x, both scope has slight magnification, Atacr is little worst than RG3
Illumination: RG3 is much brighter and it doesn’t exhibit “flickering” like Atacr does.
Form factor: both roughly the same size and weight. Both build like a tank but Atacr fit and finish feel “better”
Eye relief: I feel Atacr has better eye relief and it’s pretty forgiving to your head position. Vortex claims RG3 it’s similar to RG2, but for some reason, I still feel RG2 is ever so slightly more forgiving than RG3. I don’t have any data to support that though, but that’s my honest opinion. May be it’s in my head, can anyone share their experience?
I like Atacr has build in throw lever, and RG3 comes with one. Both can turn the magnification ring smoothly but Atacr entire eye piece rotates.
RG3 it’s about 2k brand new and Atacr is about 2100-2400 in the used market.
I think both scopes are great for AR10 rifle. For 556 gas guns, I still perfer MK6 or K16i due to light weight. (And yes, I can feel the 4ozs lol). Currently my RG3 is sitting on a 14.5, I may move to my SPR, I’m still somewhat reluctant to replace my 2.5-10 m, I’m waiting to bring it to long distant rifle range before to make any changes on SPR.
This is a great thread, I too am on the fence with these two optics. I’m currently leaning towards the atacR, it will be going on a centurion mk12 mod 1 upper (not clone correct obviously). Probably gonna pull the trigger on it in the next week or two from scalarworks.
had a atacr 1-8 for about 2 years now and have no complaints other than the dot in the center of the reticle being a little big for shooting small groups at 8x but i have it on a 11.5" sbr so its not really a precision gun in the first place. durability has been top notch. i was interested in the 1-10 razor at first but decided an extra 2x power wasnt worth the hassle of selling the atacr and switching.
I learned long ago that when it comes to optics and mounts, you need to just buy, shoot, and determine what works for you. It’s a lot of coin, but in high end optics at most you would lose $200-300 (assuming you didn’t massively overpay) if you sell after using the optic for awhile. You’re risking the cost of a really nice dinner and drinks for two to determine if an optic is right for you.
I have now shot a few matches with the new Vortex, have plenty of matches on the ATACR. Here is what I think shooting thousands of rounds a year on the clock with my LPVOs. Be realistic what you are going to use it for. If you want a really nice scope for your really nice rifle the ATACR is flashier and everyone will know how much it $, if your realistically shooting for fun on a bench or a position of your choice at your own pace you will be very happy with it. If you shoot competitively and have to deal with all sorts of shenanigan positions when your winded and HR maxed the less sexy but more functional Vortex will score better.
Bringing this back to see if anyone else has been able to compare the two. At this point the only thing I am concerned about with the vortex is reliability. The nf is already well proven in that area, but it does not appear to have the eye box and shoot ability the vortex does from all I have read.
Also curious on reliability of the Vortex... I had not heard of Gen II failures until a few months ago. A great warranty is great, but it usually takes time to use. Not fun when seconds count.
Not trying to derail, but is the NX8 in the same realm as the G3? Lighter/shorter but seems like the eye box may be even more picky than the ATACR? Cheapest of the bunch especially used...
Not trying to derail, but is the NX8 in the same realm as the G3? Lighter/shorter but seems like the eye box may be even more picky than the ATACR? Cheapest of the bunch especially used...
NX8 has a bright reticle and is rather small and light, but it is notably pickier in terms of head position than ATACR or Razor Gen3.
ILya
I now have several thousand rounds on the Gen III. I shot several major 3 gun matches and lots of local competitions & training. I have only had a couple situations where I needed all 10x, but when I did I won those stages. Long targets hidden in shadows, long target hidden in grass that RO swore was not visible/available to from where I shot it. At this point I am convinced this is the fastest scope for my sport, your needs may differ. My gen 2 had 30k on it when I sold it I have no reason to expect less reliabity from this.
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No comparison (I don't have a NF) I have about a 700 rounds out of my AR10 topped with my Gen 3, not a single hiccup or issue so far.
I have the ATACR 1-8 in the Scalarworks mount on a AR 10, bouncing around in a truck all day, everyday. I'm not easy on my gear by any means, not intentionally abusive, just use my tools. I can say it's legit. Not as qualified as some, just sayin. My favorite optic, minus price, I've had.
I'm a die hard NF fan... but I have to admit - heard a lot of good things about that Vortex.
I was very impressed with the gen 3, but it really really surprises me that they went with a mil reticle not a BDC. Nobody in 3 gun wants to try and remember their dope at XXX yards and taping it to the gun like PRS does seems a lot slower than a BDC reticle. I;m happy about it because I don't shoot 3 gun but others probably not so much.
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