The only way government can break up a nuclear family is if those in the nuclear family allow it. I do not blame the government or communistic principles for the lack of parenting that is plaguing our youth. I blame the lazy ass parents that would rather hit the easy button, than discipline, love and teach their children.
Interesting read on the decline of religious faith in children.
- Thread starter Maggot
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The only way government can break up a nuclear family is if those in the nuclear family allow it. I do not blame the government or communistic principles for the lack of parenting that is plaguing our youth. I blame the lazy ass parents that would rather hit the easy button, than discipline, love and teach their children.
I totally agree. Thats why my original comment of the combination of those things is the issue. You can have one or the other and still be OK, but the trifecta of all is what causes the downfall and where we are currently.
See if you can find a correlation between Moms going to work and the start of said.
R
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i think government policies can contribute to the lack of traditional family units via their support and encouragement (financially) for single parent households.
this is of course beyond the mass media's push for promiscuity.
this is of course beyond the mass media's push for promiscuity.
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Agreed. Are we seeing an actual downfall or is it just more open now? Prior generations had the same sentiment.
Having a parent (Mom or Dad) would do quite a bit to helping familial issues as long as the parent is good/decent.
I also believe the notion that we can't do that is not correct. Our American culture has changed from necessity to indulgence. One parent working will not be able to accomplish indulgence (usually).
This is the biggest issue I have with religion, it’s pretty much “you’re with us or you’re a POS”. If you don’t believe you’re wrong and there’s something wrong with you.
Well I’m an atheist and I couldn’t care less what anyone else believes in so long as they don’t push their bullshit on me. The first amendment gives us all the right to believe in what we want and nobody is wrong for their beliefs regardless of what they are. Religion also has jack shit to do with parents raising their children and teaching them right from wrong.
Well I’m an atheist and I couldn’t care less what anyone else believes in so long as they don’t push their bullshit on me. The first amendment gives us all the right to believe in what we want and nobody is wrong for their beliefs regardless of what they are. Religion also has jack shit to do with parents raising their children and teaching them right from wrong.
I quit the church thing when i was about 20. I was deeply involved, baptized at 14, etc. Started to really think about what i was taught. I just couldn't renoncile it with logic, no matter how hard i have tried. I have young kids. My family is completely flabbergasted that they aren't in sunday school every sunday. I don't believe i could send them in good conscious. But its not something that you can really have a conversation about with family members that are devout believers. Its even a bit difficult to write this here.
I wish the best to everyone here, regardless of your beliefs.
I wish the best to everyone here, regardless of your beliefs.
I'm confused. So do we throw out the old testament all together? That includes the 10 commandments, concept of original sin? These dont matter?
Which laws am I asserting? I am speaking to biblical scripture.
I agree, Jesus was quoted as giving as commandments. Some were very strange, to include:
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.
-Ephesians 6:5
Don't take this as an attack, but your specific statement here is indicative of the normal conceit, fallacious type thinking I see in conversations like these. I dont know him personally obviously, but if he said he was an evangelical christian and assuming he lived to 1 Peter 3:15, I am not convinced someone can say he wasn't dedicated to the faith.
Good point, and a question I often ask without a real great answer to date. By what standards of evidence did someone rule out the 9,999+ other deities that have claimed to exist, to support that their specific god is the only one exist?
It was this question, that led me to question most of the Catholic doctrine. I'm supposed to believe that no matter how good of a life any individual might have led, because they weren't Catholic they are damned? That didn't jive with me as a kid, the same with suicide equalling eternal damnation.
Agreed.
And it goes without saying, as a non-believer, I am not "hostile" towards anyone particular belief system, unless those beliefs lead to actions that take away the rights of others.
I am 200% for the First Amendment, especially with the establishment clause that keeps the U.S. secular. The separation of church and state guarantees religious liberty for all, and allows religion to prosper without governmental intervention (ideally, recent years there have been issues).
Agreed, it was a part of my own decision to leave the catholic church as well, among others. The actions of the church, continued to this day, as they spend billions and billions covering up sexual abuse across the world, is just absolutely unimaginable to me as an organization who represents themselves as the institution that possess the vicar of christ on earth.
Corrupt to the core. And I'll go as far as saying anyone who continues to donate to the church is supporting those actions, indirectly at least.
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.
-Ephesians 6:5"
Those were not the words of Christ but part of the Pauline Doctrine (the teachings of Paul, Saul of Tarsus) which I consider the beginning of the perversion of the true gospel, which in its simplest form said ""Love one another." (because) "God is Love." and we want to be like it. Summarized in "Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you."
We are not governed by the Old Testament as Christians, nor are we governed by the 10 Commandments. We are governed by the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Jesus also said in Matthew 22:21 "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's."
You also can't see your hand in front of your face when you are in complete darkness, until God sparks a light, then all things are known unto you.
I don't criticize you because you do not know, but I do feel sorry for you if you know but turn away. It is never too late to turn to God, maybe there is something that can be said to you that will turn you towards the light, so that you may see the truth.
God Bless brother.
Thanks for that context. I need to brush up on my scripture, its been awhile. Maybe I was confusing that with Colossians 3:22.
But I always found it interesting that christ didn't make it simply clear in the NT that people shouldn't own other people. A very simple declarative statement saying "slavery is bad", especially coming out of the atrocities of the OT.
It's kinda odd, but I find there to be many fallen Catholics. Since I've never studied Catholicism I'm not sure I can understand why. Maybe because they confess their sins to a mortal man, they seek redemption through a man called the Pope. It could also be the belief of once saved, always said. I don't really know.
I'm still confused on how the OT is negated, without it the entire idea behind original sin and vicarious redemption falls, negating the genesis (no pun intended) behind the need of the figure of christ?
But thank you for the kind words at the end, but I'll respectfully state I threw away shackles of religion almost years ago, and I've become a better person for it.
Oh I agree. No I dont have any intentions of forbidding religion from my kids, however wont allow it to be forced on them either, nor intimidated into them like what was tried with me.
The problems in the world today can be directly linked to secularism.
Essentially secularism says that man does not need God anymore.
Secularism can be defined as a system of doctrines and practices that disregards or rejects any and all forms of religious faith and worship.
Its primary objective is the elimination of all religious elements from society.
Secularism, AKA secular humanism, teaches that there is no objective or absolute truths defining right and wrong.
In essence, to secularized something is to make it worldly and unspiritual.
Its intent is to deprive something of its religious character, its spiritual influence and significance.
Secularism permeates all facets of our society: schools, government, criminal justice system, news media, entertainment industry, ect.
Secularists believe that man is the measure of all things, that morals are man centered rather than God centered.
Therefore, no one is entitled to determine right from wrong, and morality is best determined by what is good for todays culture.
Secularists do not believe that man can have a set of permanent values such as those taught in the Bible.
Secularism pays lip service to tolerance and diversity yet many secularists are often intolerant with anyone who looks to the Bible as Gods standard for morality.
When the things of God are removed from the home, schools, court rooms, congressional chambers ect it naturally leads to a deteriation of personal morality.
The acceptance of situational ethics does away with moral absolutes and dictates there is are no limits, no values and no real standards.
The more our nation embraces secularism the more it becomes like ancient Israel, where "everyone did what was right in his own eyes".(Judges 17:6, 21:25)
When the mindset is "if it feels good, do it", then wickedness, perversion, and sin become the norm.
In a completely secularized society marriage is disparaged, morality is mocked and human life is devalued.
Truth be told, when left to his own devices, man always descends to a lower level.
Following the Bibles precepts always lifts us up to a higher moral plain.(Deuteronomy 4:7-8, 10:12-13, Proverbs 14:34)
However man has hardened his heart towards God, in spite of all He's done for us.(John 12:40, Roman's 1:18-22)
We have shown to the wind and are now in danger of reaping the whirlwind. (Hosea 8-7)
Even the church is being impacted by secularism. Many churches are dealing less and less with its members immorality for fear of offending someone.
After all, it's much easier to just accommodate an offending member than correct him, right? Not.
The church must not let itself become secularized. Jesus taught that , "Though we( meaning believers) are in this world, we are not of this world". (Roman's 2:2, James 4:4, 1 John 2:15).
Secularism promotes the idea that religion is nothing more that a relic from the past.
But the truth is, God exists, and we most certainly do need Him.
Despite the secular humanists claims, the Holy Bible is Gods Truth.
As believers living in a secular society we must "become blameless and harmless,
children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and fallen generation, among whom you shine as a light in the world". (Philipians 2:15)
Essentially secularism says that man does not need God anymore.
Secularism can be defined as a system of doctrines and practices that disregards or rejects any and all forms of religious faith and worship.
Its primary objective is the elimination of all religious elements from society.
Secularism, AKA secular humanism, teaches that there is no objective or absolute truths defining right and wrong.
In essence, to secularized something is to make it worldly and unspiritual.
Its intent is to deprive something of its religious character, its spiritual influence and significance.
Secularism permeates all facets of our society: schools, government, criminal justice system, news media, entertainment industry, ect.
Secularists believe that man is the measure of all things, that morals are man centered rather than God centered.
Therefore, no one is entitled to determine right from wrong, and morality is best determined by what is good for todays culture.
Secularists do not believe that man can have a set of permanent values such as those taught in the Bible.
Secularism pays lip service to tolerance and diversity yet many secularists are often intolerant with anyone who looks to the Bible as Gods standard for morality.
When the things of God are removed from the home, schools, court rooms, congressional chambers ect it naturally leads to a deteriation of personal morality.
The acceptance of situational ethics does away with moral absolutes and dictates there is are no limits, no values and no real standards.
The more our nation embraces secularism the more it becomes like ancient Israel, where "everyone did what was right in his own eyes".(Judges 17:6, 21:25)
When the mindset is "if it feels good, do it", then wickedness, perversion, and sin become the norm.
In a completely secularized society marriage is disparaged, morality is mocked and human life is devalued.
Truth be told, when left to his own devices, man always descends to a lower level.
Following the Bibles precepts always lifts us up to a higher moral plain.(Deuteronomy 4:7-8, 10:12-13, Proverbs 14:34)
However man has hardened his heart towards God, in spite of all He's done for us.(John 12:40, Roman's 1:18-22)
We have shown to the wind and are now in danger of reaping the whirlwind. (Hosea 8-7)
Even the church is being impacted by secularism. Many churches are dealing less and less with its members immorality for fear of offending someone.
After all, it's much easier to just accommodate an offending member than correct him, right? Not.
The church must not let itself become secularized. Jesus taught that , "Though we( meaning believers) are in this world, we are not of this world". (Roman's 2:2, James 4:4, 1 John 2:15).
Secularism promotes the idea that religion is nothing more that a relic from the past.
But the truth is, God exists, and we most certainly do need Him.
Despite the secular humanists claims, the Holy Bible is Gods Truth.
As believers living in a secular society we must "become blameless and harmless,
children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and fallen generation, among whom you shine as a light in the world". (Philipians 2:15)
Sorry, I stopped reading after this last sentence, because that is an incorrect statement. That is not what secularism means. In current day the word is simply used to describe the separation of church from state, i.e., government showing NO PREFERENCE for any religion over any other.
This has been shown to lead to maximum religious liberty in a nation compared to any other theocratic based approach to governance available today, enter the United States.
Is there any theocratic state, historical or current, you'd want to live in today vs the United States?
Yeaaaaaah I dont need a carrot/stick relationship with a middle eastern deity to be a good person, to not do wrong. Then again how many people have been wronged by adherents of various mythologies who by the tenets of their mythology, and in their eyes was right, and righteous, when in reality was downright vile and evil. My ancestors are a good example, what the christians did especially to the baltic, nordic, and germanic peoples goes far beyond evil and downright wrong.
By my understanding the coming of Christ didnt negate the Old Testament but fullfiled it. Jesus himself said " For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. " He brought a 'higher' understanding demonstrating that all the laws are covered under..."Do unto others..." Just do that and it will work out, dont do that and it goes to shit. Look at where we are now.
Interesting, I didnt expect this thread to get so much play and I think we've done well in not getting into any ugly derision, which is why the rule avout religious postings is in place.
Show pretty clearly those who are into 'religion' and just quote endless passages, and those who have taken the time to study and comprehend those passages with wisdom. I have far more trust in an atheist neighbor who treats me with respect than a religious one who throws religion around like an axe rather than a scalpel. Spirit does not negate reason it only confirms it as right or wrong.
This is a perfect example of why I despise religion, nobody is allowed to disagree with your beliefs and it’s all the same regardless of the religion. Someone either believes the same as you or they are wrong. I’m an atheist and I have more respect for others beliefs than you, a child of god who supposedly loves all. Think about that while you worship your mythical man in the sky.
Gothca, im tracking your explanation above. Where I get confused and/or find it illogical, considering the bible is the inspired word of a god, is the need to deliver a new covenant at all? Why was the OT so awful with behavior from a deity killing populations in the first place? Why did the rules and/or deity's character change?
I know this means we are getting into the weeds of covenant theology (noah, moses, abrahamic, jesus, and maybe some inbetween) which is probably best served over a real-time convo.
Agreed, I honestly try to come from a place of understanding, which is why most of my posts end or start with questions. I appreciate the dialogue.
To link this back to the original article, I think zooming out and looking at national research data from Pew (HERE), demonstrating more adults are becoming religions "nones", we would expect a correlation to their children also not adopting those beliefs systems.
jesus told his disciples to spread the good word.
while i am not religious, i cannot blame believers for doing what they are told by their faith.
I've read and studied the Bible closely. I grew up with no religion, so I mainly did this since I think it and the Iliad are the two foundational texts of modern society. Unfortunately, I have no personal faith. I envy those who do, and have not lost hope that someday I will find it.
if i thought i could save your soul from eternal damnation, and cared about you, i'd be a total dick about it.
Not wise to be a dick to a hot tempered asshole
. I always tell the religious I appreciate their concern, but am not interested. However that’s the limits of my patience.
We have a need to believe in something. it's part of our survival make up, it's not uncommon. Stalin, Churchill, JFK, and even Trump.... people believed IN them like they held some other worldly wisdom or 3D perspective of life that escapes ordinary people. The narcissim of these people drove others to mistake their self-belief for confidence and competence. Sometimes the two were the same, many times, tragically, they were not but whatever the cost, enough people were weak enough to not care or be too afraid to see the truth and just 'believed'.
To put it simply, belief systems are for the weak because it's very difficult to be an individual and have self-fortitude all the time. We all need support, we all need help. We sometimes get it from family, friends or comrades, but in those times when we're ALL in the same shit, that's when the role of the deity or cult of personality comes in.
We, here in the Hide, feel besieged. Our chosen way of life, viewpoints and love for individualism (to varying degrees) puts us at odds with those who are saying "tolerate me while I deplore you" and their voice is loud, persistent and seemingly growing and worst of all, infesting our young.
What to do?
Let's believe in Trump who has told us he has the answer. A man who was a democrat, a draft dodger, a documented cheat in marriage, business and a PR whore who wrote the manual that the Kardashians still reference. This is our guy. Despite all real evidence there are millions who look to HIM, for help and even salvation.
This is our nature as humans. When we're afraid of something that doesn't present itself readily in flesh and blood or physically comprehend able, we need something equally esoteric to combat it with in our minds. We are unique in being able to sustain cognitive dissonance because sometimes reality sucks so bad that to accept it would be the start of a downward spiral.
I chose not to believe because I chose to be honest with myself. No-one's going to save me, no-one's going to care for me, unless I save and care for those around me also. I can't save everyone or help everyone so I curate and ration those affections and actions.
Life is fleeting when you're not paying attention and looking past it.
To put it simply, belief systems are for the weak because it's very difficult to be an individual and have self-fortitude all the time. We all need support, we all need help. We sometimes get it from family, friends or comrades, but in those times when we're ALL in the same shit, that's when the role of the deity or cult of personality comes in.
We, here in the Hide, feel besieged. Our chosen way of life, viewpoints and love for individualism (to varying degrees) puts us at odds with those who are saying "tolerate me while I deplore you" and their voice is loud, persistent and seemingly growing and worst of all, infesting our young.
What to do?
Let's believe in Trump who has told us he has the answer. A man who was a democrat, a draft dodger, a documented cheat in marriage, business and a PR whore who wrote the manual that the Kardashians still reference. This is our guy. Despite all real evidence there are millions who look to HIM, for help and even salvation.
This is our nature as humans. When we're afraid of something that doesn't present itself readily in flesh and blood or physically comprehend able, we need something equally esoteric to combat it with in our minds. We are unique in being able to sustain cognitive dissonance because sometimes reality sucks so bad that to accept it would be the start of a downward spiral.
I chose not to believe because I chose to be honest with myself. No-one's going to save me, no-one's going to care for me, unless I save and care for those around me also. I can't save everyone or help everyone so I curate and ration those affections and actions.
Life is fleeting when you're not paying attention and looking past it.
no, it doesn't. You've fundamentally misunderstood the meaning and implementation of the word secularism.
Good ideas normally dont need that level of persuasion.
Why through the lens of a biblical perspective? And why not through the lense of how it is actively enshrined in our current society and Constitution?
ETA: Good place to start.
Religion = Man-made Rules/Doctrine and Legalistic. This is another form of tyranny.
I think we get religion and faith confused and mixed up. I'd have to say, I'm not a religious person, but I do have a very strong faith, that is Christianity. Christianity, as Jesus Christ exemplified, is not condemning, controlling, or abusive, but it is specific about the way to live this life and what happens, after this life.
I think we get religion and faith confused and mixed up. I'd have to say, I'm not a religious person, but I do have a very strong faith, that is Christianity. Christianity, as Jesus Christ exemplified, is not condemning, controlling, or abusive, but it is specific about the way to live this life and what happens, after this life.
To summarize: You posited that secularism causes (x,y,z issues). Then you followed up with your definition of secularism. Which is an incorrection definition of secularism as it is used today.
So, where do you land with the above?
Y’all’s some intelligent, well read folks! No matter what the subject discussed here I always feel so stupid 
Thus the avatar Moe Ron
As others have said, I can’t square the existence of God with the world we live in.
I have to think if I were God with all the power, knowledge and love, would this be the world I would create for my loved ones to live in. I think not.
Thus the avatar Moe Ron
As others have said, I can’t square the existence of God with the world we live in.
I have to think if I were God with all the power, knowledge and love, would this be the world I would create for my loved ones to live in. I think not.
I think they’re all stupid and all scams these days. Until modern history they served as law of the land and had purpose but not anymore. These days it’s just another form of brainwash and making money. Look at the crook Joel Osteen for example, look how rich that guy has gotten from religion... tell me it isn’t a scam. If he truly believed in what he was doing he would donate all except a livable wage to needy and less fortunate but instead he’s a multi millionaire from preaching and getting richer. Religion absolutely should not be profitable unless they’re going to pay taxes like everyone else.
That said I believe in the first amendment and an individuals right to believe in what they chose and they don’t have to believe the same as me, but they should respect my rights just as a should theirs. The whole you’re damned if you don’t believe the same is just such a narcissistic crock of shit.
As an Atheist, do you love someone so much that you care about their soul? As an Atheist, do you have any idea about the difference between ignorance and defiance? We as children of God always want to spread the word, because that is what we are tasked with by Jesus. Your harshness towards me and my God is human defiance. Never knowing the word of God is ignorance. I am not here to judge you for if I do, then I too will be judged. Only God has that responsibility. I am just a soldier in my God's army.
But it's okay for those that don't believe in God's salvation to soil the name of my God and to downplay the righteousness of the Word?
You must be a Democrat.
