- Thread starter Hobo Hilton
- Start date
I like that section in Atlas Shrugged where Dagny Taggart is working it out with the union boss on who will drive the train on the John Galt line:
I have never been in a union.
Samsung ship yards do not allow union but have worked with thousands of union workers at Hyundai heavy indisties in south Korea.
Its a totally diferent feeling over there compared to America.
They are very proud of the companies they work at and have seen many of them wearing there compqny uniforms even at weddings.
Spent 10 years in LE, but never in a union.
Unions had their place once upon a time
Now they're havens for lousy and lazy workers.
If you have the skill and drive, you don't need someone else to sell your qualifications for you.
It's too bad the days of the carrier being the dominant ship of a Naval force are at an end...
So another opinion without basis.
There are police unions from one end of the country to the other.
So you lump all those people as lousy, lazy and unskilled at thier job.
Nice going.
You also don't know shit about union workers.
There are police unions from one end of the country to the other.
So you lump all those people as lousy, lazy and unskilled at thier job.
Nice going.
You also don't know shit about union workers.
Unions are great for the worst workers in the union, and for the union bosses. They are awful for anybody above median. That's just math, like it or not. I don't know if you are a good worker or a shitty one, but you have been absolutely brainwashed, I can tell you that.
I'm not an engineer, but I am fairly confident that constructing the largest, most technologically advanced aircraft carrier is more involved than making pry bars and hammers.
However, two big thumbs up for supporting your son and his fellow warfighters.
That carrier will enable the Navy to bring the hate on our enemies that are attacking those Marines.
Having been in mine warfare (the underwater type) for 24 years of my 24 years of active duty, I understand why these tests are done.
The way the government does budgets encourages fraud, waste and abuse.
Sorry to say that the Marine Corps is second only to the Coast Guard when it comes to funding.
What did you do before you were blessed with the union? And after?
I have belonged in a union. I have been management. I have seen absolutely worthless union employees keep thier jobs because of the union no matter how much they screw up (most likely on purpose)
My grandfather was a union coal miner in western Virginia and had a three digit union number. Back then unions were needed to help improve working conditions. Now any worker can use the courts.
Anyone (on either side of the argument) that deals in absolutes is a idiot. Unions are on the way out because of their own greed and trying to stay in bed with democraps to stay relevent. Without that, unions would have been gone long ago.
My grandfather was a union coal miner in western Virginia and had a three digit union number. Back then unions were needed to help improve working conditions. Now any worker can use the courts.
Anyone (on either side of the argument) that deals in absolutes is a idiot. Unions are on the way out because of their own greed and trying to stay in bed with democraps to stay relevent. Without that, unions would have been gone long ago.
It doesn't really matter whether you are union or non union, there are skilled, hard working people and worthless fucks either way. People that take pride in their work do so regardless of pay/benefits, we do it because we give a shit.
At one point I would have agreed that union was better but it got to the point when the hall is empty, I've seen contractors being told to hire off the street and unions sell permits to anyone with a pulse.
At one point I would have agreed that union was better but it got to the point when the hall is empty, I've seen contractors being told to hire off the street and unions sell permits to anyone with a pulse.
So, when this boat eventually gets into service... The boat itself will be older than many of the Sailors who will serve on the maiden voyage. In the heavy industrial construction world a phrase snuck in during the 1980's.. That phrase was called "Design Build". We would start a major project before the finish engineering and drawings were complete. There were computer chip factories (FABS) where so many holes were cored between floors the building became unsafe. We could hear the high tension cables in the concrete pop and snap while coring.
Basically this boat is a "Design Build". Technology available today was not even around when the keel was laid.. Anyone really think it will go into service in 2024 ?
en.wikipedia.org
Basically this boat is a "Design Build". Technology available today was not even around when the keel was laid.. Anyone really think it will go into service in 2024 ?
USS Gerald R. Ford - Wikipedia
I worry like hell that is the case. Of course our subs are pretty good as well, so between them and missle tech, we are probably ok. But only an idiot has full confidence.
I'd argue they still have a role to play, but land based anti-ship is shrinking their power daily.
Build more subs. A lot more.
Im pretty sure they do tests of this type on most navy vessels. Post 4 is a video talking about ship shock trials and the vessel in it isn't a carrier.
I worked T-33, F4, F-15 and F-111's for our Uncle.
Corporate jets briefly at an fbo.
Then F111'S, F-16, F-22, F35 and some un-acknowledged things at plant #4 with the occasional deployment to the field.
The final battle with the plant and the union ended in getting a cash settlement and my full vested retirement.
Mostly on account of my support of the Constitution, the Second Amendment my hatred of democratic scum and lazy fuckers in management and the union.
It's easier if I tell you what part of fighter jets I did not work on much, engine's landing gear and radar.
That's the short answer.
Understood.... In your opinion... Would an EMP disable this boat ?
Fucking Union parasites making everything more expensive
You can’t judge cops you never were one.
Now unions.
Lmao
You don’t have to be a painter to notice bad work
You can’t judge cops you never were one.
Now unions.
Lmao
You don’t have to be a painter to notice bad work
Lol do you not read the news.
they are the same as the yellow truck drivers.
all day at convenience stores. Very little doing their job.
“That’s a civil matter”
Sure I do.
Spent 20 years as a printer, also non union. The same company had union print shops up north.
My shop set production records for the company and had better pay and benefits than the union shop.
I did underwater mines, not electronic warfare. I also punched out of the Navy back in 06.
I know they harden them against EMP and other electronic attacks.
I don't know why you have such a hard-on for this vessel.
Shock tests are done on any new class of vessel.
Here is a shock test of the USS Avenger, all 224 feet of her wooden hull:
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IDK... Seems like they spend a lot of time in the boat yard
Over Half of US Aircraft Carriers in Dry Dock for Repairs – Report
Aircraft carriers are one of the key weapons in the US arsenal and which it often uses in strike groups deployed to regions where Washington wants to project its military might. They are frequent guests in the Persian Gulf and South China...
sputniknews.com Well, operating in Salt water for extended periods is hard on shit.IDK... Seems like they spend a lot of time in the boat yard
Over Half of US Aircraft Carriers in Dry Dock for Repairs – Report
Aircraft carriers are one of the key weapons in the US arsenal and which it often uses in strike groups deployed to regions where Washington wants to project its military might. They are frequent guests in the Persian Gulf and South China...
A refuel typically takes 2 years.
And yes, cannibalizing does routinely occur.
I always have initial doubts with absolute statements. Having heard horror stories on both sides of the debate, it leaves me wondering. Are there any modern benefits to unions?
Sure, they are great for the people who benefit from them. Not unlike a multi level marketing scheme is.
Joking aside, if you assume, and it is a stretch, that union wage rates represent the "fair" rate for a given profession, then those making that rate but performing below average are benefitting from the fixed rate system, while those performing above average are hurt. If union rates are inflated, which they are, then more union members benefit and those who consume union products suffer from higher prices.
So there is no question that some benefit. The only question is whether it is a few people, or very few people.
Fine for beating up on stone age man but wont last long when coming to terms with technology from this century.
Maybe that ship class should have had a reef test....
USS Guardian (MCM-5) - Wikipedia
That's the reality of them these days. Probably the best statement on this thread.
Reality these days is the union is the cheapest way the company has to protect itself from lawsuits.
My point was people will bitch about trades unions without ever being in one.
Those same people will want to exempt police nurses other emergency services from the same scrutiny and blanket caims of lazy overpaid ect.
Two major different paths to end up in a union, the company hires you or the union hires you and end results differ.
Without unions all jobs would be filled with the lowest bidder sheep regardless of experience and ran by incompetent management also lowest bidder.
Oh wait? We allready do that and look at the fucking mess we have.
Even the job of running the country filled by two of the most incompetent people I have ever seen but thier handlers got them cheap.
This is patently ridiculous and the kind of stupidity you get when you consider labor to be an undifferentiated product. Without unions people would be hired and paid based on marginal utility, as happens in other industries. Yes, some people would make less, but also some people would make more.
So, unions are basically an extortion racket? Awesome. I mean, back in the day you guys farmed this part out, but now I see you are out of the closet.
This is a strawman. Literally everybody in this thread is against public employee unions, which includes police. There is simply no justification for them. They are a terrible mix of conflict of interest plus extortion.
I'm sure the most technologically sophisticated Navy in the world forgot to take that threat into account.
It seems you are merely thinking of the collective bargaining aspect of unions. Not having to deal with unions, I have nothing to add to that element of the discussion, but I can see merit in your arguments.
What I was curious about was the benefit from an organization providing a pool of qualified candidates outside of formal educational institutions, similar to trade guilds of the preindustrial period.
I'd be interested in hearing what took its place and how.
I'm sure you and others understand that aircraft carriers do not exist (or operate) in isolation?
It may be a marginal benefit, but only because it is the system that exists. We live in a world where it is easy to find anything. You can find a dominatrix in seconds from the comfort of your home. Finding a qualified welder shouldn't pose significant problems after some readjustment of the marketplace.
Perhaps, but is she good enough for a NY City Councilman? <--Joking of course.
So technology and licensure is the is answer or just relying upon subcontracting through brokers and vendors for large construction jobs?
IDK... Seems like they spend a lot of time in the boat yard
Over Half of US Aircraft Carriers in Dry Dock for Repairs – Report
Aircraft carriers are one of the key weapons in the US arsenal and which it often uses in strike groups deployed to regions where Washington wants to project its military might. They are frequent guests in the Persian Gulf and South China...
Man, you do like to display your ignorance
All Navy ships have an operating cycle that's roughly 18 months long. There are variations but it generally goes like this
- 6 months pre deployment workups and training
- 6 months on deployment
- 6 months on refit and repair
Nothing in that super slanted russian "article" is particularly unusual other than the bullshit claims about the reasons why certain ships are undergoing repairs.
You might want to vet your sources a bit better:
AKA: Pravda
I think licensure is generally a scheme for people currently in a business to keep other people out of business in order to keep rates up. The best exposition on this is in Milton Friedman's Capitalism and Freedom. Technology, subcontracting etc are all good ideas. These are eminently soluble problems, nothing like putting a man on the moon. We already solve them for all sorts of non union labor.
My main customer for the last 10+ years has been the Navy. Make no mistake, nothing is taking its place. But a peer adversary has made the carrier a relic. When missile ranges and engagement times out strip the carrier's ability to support the fleet via air assets...then it has become outdated. As pmclaine stated, they're great for parking off the coast of a 3rd world country, and pounding them with air strikes. But that's not the kind of war you fight with a peer adversary.
There's a reason everything is being geared for CRUDES and any weapon/any shooter scenarios. If you think otherwise, I would submit your understanding of current capabilities are woefully out of date. I deal with this sort of thing on a daily basis. EVERYONE knows that the CVN won't be anywhere near the fight, when the balloon goes up...never mind whether it'll have shit for comms when the fight even begins, to even have a significant role.
The carrier has become an anachronism. Much like the battleships in 1939. They (carriers) will play a role, but not as the center of gravity in the fight to come.
That is another story. I served on that ship, not when it ran aground though.Maybe that ship class should have had a reef test....
USS Guardian (MCM-5) - Wikipedia
When it got underway, they were required to use digital charts. The CO and XO objected and wanted to also plot on nautical charts.
They were refused and ordered to use the digital charts, which had an error.
We had a peer adversary at sea all through the mid 80s to the late 90s. Today's missiles aren't that much faster and longer ranged than the ones my generation faced.
Help me understand. Are you saying that missile flight times and profiles have defeated our current detection and engagement cycle time? Sorties aren't launched after weapons are inbound, so................feel free to PM if needed.
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I'd love to hear this too, if it is OK for open forum.
@MarinePMI
Don't forget, area defense/area denial capability is nothing new. We faced it during the cold war as well and it was pretty damned potent then too.
Don't forget, area defense/area denial capability is nothing new. We faced it during the cold war as well and it was pretty damned potent then too.
That has been my exact sentiment regarding lawyers.
True, but nowadays, the loss of a carrier would be catastrophic. 5K loss of live, versus 115 on a CRUDES. Math is pretty simple then; so the carriers will hang back. With the advent of drones and such, area defense/area denial has changed dramatically.
A lot sooner than you think...they're called large deck Amphibs. And there's a lot more of them than CVN's.
Again, people are finally waking up and doing the math. Over HALF the Navy's budget is spent just keeping the CVN's running. Think about that; especially in light of the emerging threats being seen around the world. Smaller, more capable ships are the answer; not large, limited in number, capital ships.
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