Another SIG 320 fires while holstered- SIG agreed to buy all the departments 320s back
- Thread starter nagantguy
- Start date
These guys have had a 320 holstered shoot in class but say it was operator error not a problem with the bestest sig
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I got the press release of SIG saying it ends today- and told us that some/ many holsters some/ many weapons lights some/ many aftermarket triggers and some ammo can cause uncommanded discharges and those aftermarket lights holsters and ammo created “user error discharges “
And I saw the post someone had an early 320 owners manual that said the safest way to carry the 320 was with the chamber empty.
Recalls , lawsuits and buybacks don’t sound like a one off problem.
And I saw the post someone had an early 320 owners manual that said the safest way to carry the 320 was with the chamber empty.
Recalls , lawsuits and buybacks don’t sound like a one off problem.
I did a quick google fu search- and stopped counting after 80 mostly well documented incidents of a 320 firing while in the holster.
Did a similar search for “Hi Point fires while holstered “. And all results were for Sig firing while holstered .
For those of us who don't have one of these particular make/model's, can anyone summarize as to what "the problem" actually is?
cheetoh dust?
cheetoh dust?
There are two different problems.
First, OOB detonations causing the grip module to blow up. This is thought to be caused primarily by the disconnector that connects before the action is in battery, and a barrel with an unsupported chamber. The chamber problem is similar to early Glock, and I've read to a worse extent. Apparently the disconnector wears with use and makes this more likely.
The second problem is the uncommanded discharge. To my knowledge, the exact cause of this is not fully known. From what I have read, it's likely cause is a multitude of manufacturing issues. First, many of the parts are MIM and when viewed under a microscope, are rather rough. Along with this, allegedly the QA/QC is sub-par, many of the parts made in India, and tolerance stacking becomes an issue. Second, another theory I've read is that between the cast, not forged, FCU chassis, and the polymer grip module, pressure on the frame & slide can, in conjunction with tolerance stacking, cause them to twist/deform slightly and release the striker.
For awhile the UD was allegedly to be related to a specific Safariland holster that put too much pressure on the side of the slide, but the UDs have continued with other holsters.
ETA: More recently I've seen speculation that dirty guns can exacerbate the tolerance stacking issues and are potentially more prone to UDs.
Obligatory: I don't know anything about manufacturing, small arms design or gunsmithing. This is all what I've read from 3rd parties as a p320 owner.
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There’s a video you can test if your P320 is more at risk of dropping the striker
The other thing I’ve seen is that if you get it out of battery slightly, with some combinations of factors when the slide goes back in the battery (maybe due to shifting weight, side impact, etc) it drops the striker. So if you had a holster that maybe didn’t quite fit perfectly and could put pressure on the wml and slightly unlock the slide, you’d be at risk of UD.
All in all it’s very rare but it’s also very real.
I have never and will never own a 320 but I truly, unhealthily look forward to the continuing saga of “GBRS vs The Internet” on this topic.
-Stan
-Stan
Ben Stoeger loves shitting on those guys, it's pretty funny.
1911s and XDs can't shoot themselves if not held in a hand. yes,i am a fanatic grip safety fan boy.
I bought two for competition. I just draw and reload; gun shoots itself.
Technically all series 70 1911 can discharge if dropped on the muzzle regardless of grip or thumb safety
dropping HGs is not a recommended action. i have never heard of a pistol with a grip safety firing when it is not activated by the gun being in hand. guess anything is possible. might be a paranoia issue buy when carrying with the gun pointed at the rt nut,i am just much happier having a GS.
No matter the number of “safeties’” idiots will always find a way to defeat them.
Keep mine loaded all the time and never had it fire when not intended. Well, I keep it next to the bed, not in some crazy holster thing. Also don't make a habit of dropping it either so...
Yes and no. Yes it has a fully cocked striker but so does the PDP and VP9 and they don’t ND.
But the PDP and VP9 have trigger dingus and a the PDP has a firing pin block similar to the Glock.
The 320 doesn’t have the trigger dingus (although not sure it makes a significant difference) and doesn’t have a traditional channel firing pin block. And that’s the issue, it’s about the right combination of some element of the design and some failure in the QC/QA process and then some kind of external element ie: shifting weight or holstering or side impact. Short of a full re-engineering/recall it’s still cheaper for now for Sig to payout + NDA and probably look at increasing QC to minimize the issue. Plus the legal exposure alone would probably bankrupt Sig if they ever admitted their design was unsafe.
Honestly digging into the P320, you see how much Gaston was ahead of its time. Absolute genius design.
Thinking about this, I think there could be other factors at play with some of these AD cases involving 320’s. Other than somebody touching one off due to their finger on the trigger when it isn’t supposed to be, one thing I never hear discussed is the fact that lots of LE/carry type holsters now have extra security/retention features on them that lock the pistols in to prevent criminals and others from grabbing the gun from you during grappling incidents, etc. When using one of these holsters, you have to make sure the pistol is fully seated so that the safety features will engage properly at the trigger guard, etc. If you don’t do that and there is still some play/movement by the gun while in the holster, there is a chance that the holster’s safety lock can engage the trigger and cause an AD to occur. I remember back when the FDO program was in effect after 9/11 there several incidents by individuals in the program where AD’s occurred. What was found after investigating these incidents was that the involved FDO’s weren’t fully seating their 229’s when holstering them. They would place a pad lock through the lock hole on the holster when on flights. The locks were supposed to go behind the trigger when holstered. The holsters used were the Desantis FDO holsters that had a lock hole on them. If the gun isn’t properly seated in those and you place the lock in front of the trigger inside the trigger guard, an AD will occur when you attempt to fully seat the gun in the holster. Every vid I’ve seen regarding this AD issue seems to be either a finger on the trigger or someone using a retention/level 2 or 3 holster and bending over or doing something else to cause unwanted pressure on the trigger which results in an AD. I wouldn’t be surprised if something along these lines is going on with this. It’s something worth exploring a bit deeper. I have a hard time believing some of these stories. Not saying that it isn’t possible, most just aren’t probable and something else has to be going on.
Correct me if im wrong, arent there three separate issues?
- The drop safety issue, and a voluntary upgrade started in 2017.
- some going kaboom, happened with factory barrels. Like an out of battery detonation, or case rupturing?
- And the random non-commanded discharge.
?
- The drop safety issue, and a voluntary upgrade started in 2017.
- some going kaboom, happened with factory barrels. Like an out of battery detonation, or case rupturing?
- And the random non-commanded discharge.
?
Maybe your google is a SiG hater?
On a serious note, until I hear stories about 320s sitting in safes going off, I am going with some form of operator error. They are some how Alec Baldwining it.
For more than 35 years, officer-involved accidental discharges with Glocks and Glock-like weapons have been blamed on a lack of training or negligence on the part of the individual cops. What critics should be addressing instead is the brutal reality that short trigger pulls and natural human reflexes are a deadly combination.
^^^^^^
I don't know if it's something that is really happening or not. I'll just say that there's a lot of videos of people "accidentally" discharging their weapons to say that it's the fault of the gun 100%. Add in the factor that a majority of accidents happen due to being comfortable in routine situations and safety is no longer priority. That happens in every job from mechanics, electricians, fishing, logging on down.
To blame it on someone else is common in today's society that lacks personal responsibility. The largest section of any phonebook was attorneys. Dewey Sue and Howe.
I have 2 P320s... zero issues with either of them coming alive and shooting on their own and I put A LOT of rounds through them. P320- XFIVE DH3 and a P320 XTEN.
I got a 320 specifically because I suck with a pistol, the 320 solves the problem as it shoots itself.
I knew a fighter pilot who carried a three-screw Blackhawk in Vietnam. Said he loaded six and lowered the hammer with the FP between cylinders.
3 screw blackhawks don't have the transfer bar unless sent back and converted by Ruger.
don't know when the transfer bar was started but it did solve the single action problem. i think that has to do with design of the hammer with the long spur? i never heard of AD on 30s-90s S&W and colts. however,dropping directly on hammer with a full cylinder was not recommended. i just don't recall any tales of ADs in revolvers with a flat faced hammer.
looks like being careful matters.
looks like being careful matters.
