Cleaning High Performance Rifle Barrels - Video

This makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks for taking the time to explain.

I find it interesting and a bit confusing that Bartlein claims that paste type cleaners can leave the barrel too smooth. I understand from a tribologal perspective how that might be the case if you’re worried about surface roughness acting as a resovoir for lubricant but I don’t understand otherwise how a barrel could be “too smooth”.

I do understand their fear of dimensional change through the abrasive of the paste but in my experience it takes a hell of a lot of force and a more abrasive media to do that in a short amount of time.

I used to clean to bare metal, very squeaky clean with clr and iosso. It'd take 8-13 rds to get back to desired velocity. The problem with the squeaky clean, at a point 80-120 rounds fired that barrel will speed up again from that fouling at lands and roughness returning. So if you're not cleaning within that interval, you'll see it down range. Now I leave a lil bit that fouling in the throat, I still clean with iosso or thoroclean, but I don't clean it ALL out. It takes 2-3 rds to get back to my velocity. I may see a 10-20 fps increase over next 250 rds of fire, not the 40-80 i had with a squeaky clean finish. Rifles that are going to get shot a lot in between cleaning cycles, should not be cleaned to this degree. That's has been my observation from shooting my first 4 prs rigs with a super strict heavy cleaning program, so my most recent several barrels that get a much more lax cleaning program. I have friends who haven't cleaned their 6 dasher prs rig for 600-1200 rounds, and the velocity is as stable as ever. You cannot run them at high pressure this way, they are running 105-109gr bullets at 2780-2820 with varget. Fairly mild loads, but the rifles all shoot great, and they don't clean, ever.......

davethedog said:

This makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks for taking the time to explain.

I find it interesting and a bit confusing that Bartlein claims that paste type cleaners can leave the barrel too smooth. I understand from a tribologal perspective how that might be the case if you’re worried about surface roughness acting as a resovoir for lubricant but I don’t understand otherwise how a barrel could be “too smooth”.

I do understand their fear of dimensional change through the abrasive of the paste but in my experience it takes a hell of a lot of force and a more abrasive media to do that in a short amount of time.

How to Clean a Barrel | Bartlein Barrels

www.bartleinbarrels.com

Click to expand...

Fyi here’s the thread that @Frank Green from Bartlein created where he shares a lot of his cleaning recommendations.


Also see here:

It’s crazy how different people can arrive at nearly the same thing.

I hadn’t seen this video until just now, but Lintz’s cleaning regime is real close to the same one I use.

I just prefer to use a spanking new/fresh bronze bore brush to wrap my abrasive-impregnated patch around instead of adding more patch material to get a tighter fit (and I use Iosso instead of JB’s).

I also add a couple/few minutes of .a .45ACP bronze brush on a 10” chamber rod chucked up in a cordless drill to get rid of the carbon ring too.

davethedog said:

This makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks for taking the time to explain.

I find it interesting and a bit confusing that Bartlein claims that paste type cleaners can leave the barrel too smooth. I understand from a tribologal perspective how that might be the case if you’re worried about surface roughness acting as a resovoir for lubricant but I don’t understand otherwise how a barrel could be “too smooth”.

I do understand their fear of dimensional change through the abrasive of the paste but in my experience it takes a hell of a lot of force and a more abrasive media to do that in a short amount of time.

How to Clean a Barrel | Bartlein Barrels

www.bartleinbarrels.com

Click to expand...

You wouldn't believe how fast a shooter can wreck a barrel from cleaning. I've seen it where a shooter only cleaned the barrel as little as two times.

Also picture a shooter where he's only shot a 110 rounds on the barrel... cleaned it and took a full .001" out of the bore. Not only does he complain to us but then blames the bullet maker for bad bullets/bullets failing and it all went back to cleaning damage.

Also by making the bore too smooth with using abrasive cleaners too much.... the bullet/copper wants to stick to the bore more is the best way I can describe it. If the copper is building up in layers (like plating) and especially on tops of the lands...that is typically the accuracy killer. A smidge here and there on the lands not a big deal. Same with the grooves... copper in the grooves and the barrel doesn't seem to care.

Mark here was down shooting at the super shoot last week. Number one topic came up was cleaning of course. Mark told the group that was all sitting there BS... the number one thing we see is the misuse or overuse of abrasive cleaners.

If forget the actual number but test have been done and measuring the throat that after each time an aggressive abrasive has been used... the throat advances a .001" each time.

I have two hang ups with Litz's video when using JB.... No bore guide is one and the other is you don't need that much JB on a patch to clean/keep the carbon in check.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

Ask Mark here (shoots mostly short range BR and I got him into F class as well) and Mark currently holds two or three world records in BR.

He will tell you... he cleaned one of our barrels (prior to him working here) following Tony Boyers procedure for cleaning with Iosso. Mark wrecked the barrel with one cleaning and he only had like a couple hundred rounds on it. After he cleaned it with Tony's way... it never shot the same.

Frank Green said:

Also by making the bore too smooth with using abrasive cleaners too much.... the bullet/copper wants to stick to the bore more is the best way I can describe it.

Click to expand...

That makes a lot of sense. I work in tribology research and recently the field has come to a growing consensus that there is such a thing is too smooth especially with lubricated components. You want a place for nano-impurities to rest away from the bearing surfaces and you also want a resovoir for lubricants or at the very least air to resist undue friction.

I've used Iosso. It's a pretty strong abrasive up there with the strongest car polishes. I since have switched to SIMI, which after reading a post that benchrest shooters are using it. SIMI is a German product, as most great polishers are, but it's only 1000 grit, more of a "chrome" polish.

I regular clean every time I shoot. After 200 rounds I use SIMI - 5-10 barrel strokes on a plastic brush. That's all you need. For any polish make absolutely sure you get all of the polish out of the barrel, especially on the crown! I use a mop soaked in isopropyl alcohol And make sure there is no residue left on the mop by feeling for grit with my fingers. Visually check your crown, Polisher residue will kill your barrel!
,
Been using it for about two months on 3 different rifles after ~200 rounds, sometimes less depending on the rifle and how bad each one gets, and so far I have not noticed any ill effects. It takes about 3-5 shots to dirty the barrels and get it back on target. Link (lots of user pics):

https://www.amazon.com/Simichrome-390050-Metal-Polish-Tube/dp/B0002YUQ4E

davethedog said:

That makes a lot of sense. I work in tribology research and recently the field has come to a growing consensus that there is such a thing is too smooth especially with lubricated components. You want a place for nano-impurities to rest away from the bearing surfaces and you also want a resovoir for lubricants or at the very least air to resist undue friction.

Click to expand...

This is Kind of the same thing we see when seating bullets in new brass with pristine necks. It takes more force bc the brass is “too clean.”

davethedog said:

That makes a lot of sense. I work in tribology research and recently the field has come to a growing consensus that there is such a thing is too smooth especially with lubricated components. You want a place for nano-impurities to rest away from the bearing surfaces and you also want a resovoir for lubricants or at the very least air to resist undue friction.

Click to expand...

This reminds me as almost the same thing as how really good 1911 hammer and sears are stoned/polished, the best gunsmiths leave them not too smooth on purpose so the “glass rod break” stays consistent for longer and is more crisp that way. If they’re stoned/polished too smooth they’ll slip and drag more inconsistently as they wear in and the triggers don’t end up as good.

And while I’m an advocate for using abrasives sensibly, I’m cautious about what I’m up to, there is such a thing as “too clean” IMHO. I only clean my barrels every ~300 rounds (so I know how they’ll predictably act with a match’s and a day or so of practice worth of rounds on them). If I was cleaning my stuff more frequently or every handful of rounds like some Benchrest guys do, obviously my cleaning regime would be different.

Tag

Very informative. Thanks for sharing the video, I had a great watch and learn couple of new techniques to add to mine.