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School me on the Vudoo

Show me a test! šŸ˜‚

Nah. You can never prove something to someone who doesn’t want to see it work and way too many tuner haters out there. Just a waste of ammo to hear ā€œno now I need 100 40 shot groups at 8 different yardagesā€. Lol Not my job to prove to anyone they work. I proved it to myself in the past 4 years of using them. šŸ˜‰
 
Nah. You can never prove something to someone who doesn’t want to see it work and way too many tuner haters out there. Just a waste of ammo to hear ā€œno now I need 100 40 shot groups at 8 different yardagesā€. Lol Not my job to prove to anyone they work. I proved it to myself in the past 4 years of using them. šŸ˜‰
I think it would be awesome if they did. And we learned exactly how….
 
I recently did my own tuner test. I think it was a total of 78 five shot groups. Average 5rd group size was .31. I don’t remember what the average 30rd group size was. With a random lot of center x. I was happy with that. As for the test, I picked the best and worst settings and re-shot them. They flipped…. Also ran a p test on the data and no difference was found.
A few details please. Barrel length and profile and tuner weight or type. Note that you only proved your tune was without merit, not that everyone else's are without merit.

Regards wanting proof as to the validity of tuning are you familiar with Dr. Kolbe, one time owner of Borden Barrels,UK.
 
The great part about tuner testing is taking the time to learn trigger and rifle control, which in itself is the better outcome as far as results on paper are concerned. Testing with a bipod and rear bag is worthless to see a real change, become a .22 bullet whisperer and you will see things you never thought possible ;)
Funny is that I've started my 22 journey shooting Small bore F class years ago before I moved to NRL22 PRS Rimfire..

20 minutes, 20 rounds unlimited sighters.
50 & 100 yards

Running my GEN2 V22 it taught me more about rifle and trigger control and when NOT to pull it than anything else...

Of course it was hard keeping up custom f class rifles with 30# sleds / tuners while shooting off of a bag and bipod..yet always ended up in top 5 each match.
 
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A few details please. Barrel length and profile and tuner weight or type. Note that you only proved your tune was without merit, not that everyone else's are without merit.

Regards wanting proof as to the validity of tuning are you familiar with Dr. Kolbe, one time owner of Borden Barrels,UK.
24ā€ MTU. EC v1 tuner. Note that nobody has yet to show a test proving it works on their gun….

I’m not familiar with him.
 
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Dr. Kolbe, one time owner of Borden Barrels,UK.
Not to induce a tangent, but I think you mean Border Barrels.
 
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Not to induce a tangent, but I think you mean Border Barrels.
You bet, thank you. I would have thought that was close enough for the HIDE. Thanks again.
 
Seems to me that vudoo is a pain in the ass when it comes to magazines and feeding issues. So why does everyone jump on the Vudoo band wagon?
Also you buy a Vudoo barreled action and then take the barrel off and replace it. So what makes the action any different than lets say a CZ457? I may be asking stupid questions but like I said, I'm new to this.
 
Seems to me that vudoo is a pain in the ass when it comes to magazines and feeding issues. So why does everyone jump on the Vudoo band wagon?
Also you buy a Vudoo barreled action and then take the barrel off and replace it. So what makes the action any different than lets say a CZ457? I may be asking stupid questions but like I said, I'm new to this.

It’s not at all. The problem is some people buy a barreled action and throw it in a stock or chassis and the fit isn’t right. The poly mags run great. Every .22 will have a feeding hiccup from time to time.

No you don’t replace the barrel as the barrel is a custom which is what you would be replacing the factory barrel on the CZ with. You also have a 700 footprint on the Vudoo so tons of trigger and stock options.
 
Seems to me that vudoo is a pain in the ass when it comes to magazines and feeding issues. So why does everyone jump on the Vudoo band wagon?
Also you buy a Vudoo barreled action and then take the barrel off and replace it. So what makes the action any different than lets say a CZ457? I may be asking stupid questions but like I said, I'm new to this.
Voodoo/Rim-x/Duece/ modified Bergara are real racecars. Don’t believe the ā€œthey all run greatā€ hype. If they are put together and function tested by an experienced pro Rimfire builder, yes, usually run well as long as it’s not the first Gen version. What we don’t say publicly is that most of our big $$$ customs that we put together took a lot more time, $$, and learning on our part to get running as well as an off the shelf CZ. Eventually the customs will perform better, but it’s embarrassing how much more resources are takes if you don’t buy the whole setup complete sans optics from a pro builder.
 
Seems to me that vudoo is a pain in the ass when it comes to magazines and feeding issues. So why does everyone jump on the Vudoo band wagon?
Also you buy a Vudoo barreled action and then take the barrel off and replace it. So what makes the action any different than lets say a CZ457? I may be asking stupid questions but like I said, I'm new to this.
Notwithstanding the design flaw that is the Vudoo magazine, the answer of what is the difference between an r700 and a CZ is the Bolt and the r700 ecosystem. The vudoo bolt is a very high quality design. And you get bix/triggertech triggers.

The problem with the magazine is quite basic, and is more a quality-of-execution problem than anything else. It's persistance also seems to indicate is a business model problem (ie a feature not a flaw for the widget sellers).
 
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Seems to me that vudoo is a pain in the ass when it comes to magazines and feeding issues. So why does everyone jump on the Vudoo band wagon?
Also you buy a Vudoo barreled action and then take the barrel off and replace it. So what makes the action any different than lets say a CZ457? I may be asking stupid questions but like I said, I'm new to this.
I haven't had a feeding malfunction in my 1st-gen Vudoo in literally years and thousands of rounds fired, including a dozen or so matches each season.

Keep in mind that Vudoo's controlled-feed design ABSOLUTELY REQUIRES perfect fitment between action and stock/chassis. Whereas centerfire rifles with bottleneck calibers have a relatively gigantic hole into which the cartridge feeds, the Vudoo (and Rim-X) has to pick up the round from the magazine and insert the soft bullet nose into an opening of pretty much the same diameter - WITHOUT the bullet hitting anything on the way in. That's a pretty challenging thing to accomplish. Compare this to the usual ramp feed in CZ or pretty much every other design where the bullet nose hits a ramp and maybe the top of the chamber during the feed cycle - possibly deforming the bullet.

When my rifle was new, it would frequently fail to pick up the last round in the 10-round mag. Turns out I had about 3/16-1/4 inch of vertical play in the magazine. MPA sent me one of their then-new, now-standard adjustable magazine latches for the BA Comp chassis. Problem solved, reliability now 99+ percent (I'd never claim 100% on pretty much anything).
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I don't know what you mean by "... you buy a Vudoo barreled action and then take the barrel off and replace it." You get whatever barrel you want. If you want to replace the barrel, then replace the barrel. If you don't, then don't. I replaced my original 20" Kukri-contour Ace barrel with a longer Bartlein MTU barrel because I wanted to try it. Rob has gone to the 1.2" straight contour like a lot of people have (I don't want to deal with that much weight cuz I'm old&decrepit).
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There is no "design flaw" in the Vudoo mag - there are "design considerations" in the overall design in order to effect the controlled round feed. The "flaw" in the whole setup is that any deviation from required tolerance in fitment between action and stock/chassis manifests as misfeeds. In the Rim-X ecosystem, where 10-round mags cost freaking $125, rounds MUST feed from a magazine; no single-loading through ejection port. Incorrect action/stock fitment often manifests as the round stripping off the mag in front of the extractor and being jammed into the chamber. It is impossible, with its design, for the extractor to slide over the case rim. everyone I know who competes with a Rim-X has a little claw tool stuck on the rifle to clear this sort of misfeed.
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In 5+ years of Vudoo ownership (and 2+ of Rim-X ownership), I've seen guys get fed up with feeding issues on both platforms. Both REQUIRE perfect fitment of components. Feed issues are less common with less-expensive factory rifles. If feed issues scare anyone off, then just get one of those.
 
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Seems to me that vudoo is a pain in the ass when it comes to magazines and feeding issues.
Another viewpoint on Vudoo magazines: They must be loaded correctly.
  • See the photo - notice the staggered appearance of the cartridge column. If the mags are loaded correctly - by depressing the follower button just enough to slide a cartridge under the feed lips - the column will usually adjust itself properly.
  • If two cartridges do not orient in this staggered fashion, the shooter will likely experience a misfeed when these misaligned cartridges reach firing position.
  • Note the bullet orientation at the top of the column. If the bullet appears "flat" and its nose is at or below the front of the mag, a stoppage is likely.
  • If a shooter just presses the follower button down as far as it will go and drops cartridges in, rim lock and/or misalignment (first bullet) are likely.
Last year, a guy appeared at a match with a fairly new Vudoo, and he experienced stage-ending (for him) jams on first two stages. I asked him to show me how he was loading his magazines. He pushed the follower button all the way down and dropped in cartridges. Misalignment in this bunch, and he had had actual rim lock on one stage.

I showed him one of my loaded magazines and explained how to load. He finished the day without another misfeed.
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[This is NOT directed at OP; it's a general observation] Too fussy? Fine. Go buy a 10/22 with a bolt that flops around like a toothpick in a soda straw. Or an AK-47, which will feed with the action half-full of sand. You want optimal accuracy in a .22LR? you gonna have to learn your precision platform's idiosyncrasies, whether it's Vudoo or Rim-X or whatever.
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Edit: the photo below shows a cartridge column in a discontinued 15-round Vudoo mag. The staggered appearance is less pronounced in the 10-round mags, but is still visible.
IMG_3105 2.jpeg
 
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Glock, one of the largest pistol manufacturers (think lots of engineers) in the world has a video at the top right of this page on how to properly load a magazine,


Vudoo is very small in comparison but brought the .22 into the 21st century by introducing the V22 in a 700 footprint, keep in mind that they are not the 1st (Remington 40X was I believe.) But the keyword is making a very short rimfire cartridge work in a place designed for a centerfire (think long smaller diameter projectile feeding into a larger hole, even they had feeding issues early on ) When you are trying to insert a .222 projectile into a .226 hole timing and alignment are very critical. They are "Race rifles" if you will and when set up properly will run like a Swiss watch. Rim X paid attention and designed a better mouse trap in their magazine (Still has to be adjusted properly), Thankfully l3I built the angled aluminum magazine that stopped the rim lock but still has to be adjusted correctly to feed properly. Also keep in mind it's a number game, Vudoo is probably 10 to one of anything else at matches, so there will be more talk of problems than another brand. That also means they have a very proven track record.

Starting a new business during covid and it revolving around Vudoo would have been a very foolish mistake on my part if they did indeed have as many problems as some claim.
 
I commend you guys who have the patience to give your time to endlessly dispelling the misconceptions around Vudoo mag/feed issues.

I can only add that I have I'll probably have 100K rounds through my 360 next week and I'm patiently awaiting my second which will have a BR contour barrel. So either I'm having no issues or else I'm an idiot ... opinions vary.
 
I commend you guys who have the patience to give your time to endlessly dispelling the misconceptions around Vudoo mag/feed issues.

I can only add that I have I'll probably have 100K rounds through my 360 next week and I'm patiently awaiting my second which will have a BR contour barrel. So either I'm having no issues or else I'm an idiot ... opinions vary.
If we have learned anything the last 8 years is that keeping quiet and minding our own business will get us into more trouble than anything else. Simply look at the mess Trump and Elon are currently cleaning up. How did we get there? false information, the media lies and people regurgitate the lie until it becomes the norm. Forums and social media are no different. If those of us who truly know don't CORRECT the lies and misconceptions WE all lose.

misconceptions
  1. a view or opinion that is incorrect based on faulty thinking or understanding.
 
I commend you guys who have the patience to give your time to endlessly dispelling the misconceptions around Vudoo mag/feed issues.

I can only add that I have I'll probably have 100K rounds through my 360 next week and I'm patiently awaiting my second which will have a BR contour barrel. So either I'm having no issues or else I'm an idiot ... opinions vary.
My Vudoo Gen 1 runs flawlessly and with the poly mags, no less. I have lost track of how many rounds have gone through it. I must be in the idiot club, as well. If a Vudoo is a race car then my last name must be Verstappen or a very close relative : )
 
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I believe there was an update to the bolt between gen 1 and gen 2. Gen 3 is a 60deg bolt throw. Gen 1-2 is a 90deg bolt throw.

Yup the bolt was the major change. Look at post #6 in the thread below. That is Mike Bush the guy who made the Vudoo so he kind of knows a little about them šŸ˜‰

 
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Tuners work with skinny contoured barrels E.G 1in or less or tapered barrels ending 1in or less. These thread on tunners on 1.20"+ straight thick barrels, I haven't seen it do anything. Simply not enough weight to effect much

Spent enough time at Mesa Lapua's lot test center to see controlled results or lack of results with heavy contoured barrels and our popular muzzle tuners. Even used axel shaft collar stops and stick on wheel weights. Barrel quality is always key. If you have a picky rifle, you can spend nearly the same amount of ammo cost and your time, than just rebarreling it.

You can tune your rifles performance better than what a tuner ever can do by playing with headspace and firing pin spring weights and chamber jam amount. Lot testing is always the best way to unlock your rifles performance and aquire ammo. Base your lot testing at 100m/yards and always check it at your applied distance you plan on shooting. 50 yard groups doesnt tell you enough

Just my expirence, but I always suggest to test it yourself or call the lot test centers and get their feedback on what they have seen
 
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You can tune your rifles performance better than what a tuner ever can do by playing with headspace and firing pin spring weights and chamber jam amount.
The assertion is that headspace variation, firing pin spring strength, and chamber length are more relevant to rifle performance than what a tuner can ever do.

Does this refer to only the heavier barrels? Or does it refer to good barrels in general?
 
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Does this refer to only the heavier barrels? Or does it refer to good barrels in general?
My assertion is a tuner cant fix a bad rifle setup or poor ammunition in regards to Rimfire accuracy. Their are more variables that effect performance that should be looked into before relying on a tuner. Centerfire, tuner results are way more effective. So im not saying they dont work, they just dont work enough to see effective change if your rocking a 1.20" or larger straight barrel in Rimfire.

headspace directly effects ignition as well as how your firing pin strikes. Its a big factor in all 22lr rifles in general and often over looked to replace firing pin springs. Match grade barrels or production, you can see the difference when changing these variables.

As I've seen during lot testing, change in firing pin springs or headspace drastically changed rifles performance and preference in the ammunition lot. You can get creative by adding spacers between firing pin springs, or order new ones from various spring manufacturers. Many CZ457 owners also play with bolt shims for headspace.

I've seen your input in the community and gladly have data to share proof both systems, tuner on thinner barrels or these variables both affect group size, with headspace and spring rate changes more effectively "tune" a rifle to perform better over various lots or ammo type
 
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My assertion is a tuner cant fix a bad rifle setup or poor ammunition in regards to Rimfire accuracy. Their are more variables that effect performance that should be looked into before relying on a tuner. Centerfire, tuner results are way more effective. So im not saying they dont work, they just dont work enough to see effective change if your rocking a 1.20" or larger straight barrel in Rimfire.

headspace directly effects ignition as well as how your firing pin strikes. Its a big factor in all 22lr rifles in general and often over looked to replace firing pin springs. Match grade barrels or production, you can see the difference when changing these variables.

As I've seen during lot testing, change in firing pin springs or headspace drastically changed rifles performance and preference in the ammunition lot. You can get creative by adding spacers between firing pin springs, or order new ones from various spring manufacturers. Many CZ457 owners also play with bolt shims for headspace.

I've seen your input in the community and gladly have data to share proof both systems, tuner on thinner barrels or these variables both affect group size, with headspace and spring rate changes more effectively "tune" a rifle to perform better over various lots or ammo type
Allow me to muddy the waters a little bit, this is on a Rim X with a Muller 1.250 13 twist at 25" with an EC tuner. Three 10 shot groups three different settings within a full revolution, I Do agree that a lot can be gained in head space and firing pin protrusion.
 

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So, let's talk about the REAL reasons there are feeding/cycling issues....

Largely, it's the 1) perpetuation of bad information, which is the greater of all offenses, 2) the failure of manufacturers to properly execute in the design phase, and 3) the "I want to carelessly load my magazine," mentality. So, let's start at the end of these things and work our way forward.

3) The, "I want to carelessly load my magazine" mentality. This is actually an easier one to resolve as depicted by @DownhillFromHere . It's an innocent misconception brought about by various mental components, but the best I can tell, it's largely perpetuated by reason number one. Also, one should see the look I get when I ask, "well, what else about handling your firearm are you currently careless about, or what else do you believe you can be or should be careless about?" That question is a wake up call and quickly resolves magazine loading issues.

2) This next one is a challenge and I won't hit it very hard because there's truly a lot of good stuff out there that interfaces with true-to-scale rimfire platforms. Also, not everyone's design intent is the same, and I don't claim to know all the reasons why one way of why something was done versus doing whatever it is, differently, so I won't speak with conviction about what I have no insight to.

What I do know though, when it comes to certain pieces of critical information, related specifically to AICS magazine and mag well dimensions and location, I personally offered up the actual Accuracy International print information to many chassis makers. I've spoken to this before, so I won't get into it again here, but there are no chassis systems and/or DBMs that are dimensioned the same and magazine fitment is all over the map. The ones I've measured are, well, not good.

This is the single reason we have adjustable things we don't need. And what's worse is, at best, if there's an adjustment procedure provided, it's highly ambiguous, mostly because key dimensions pertaining to proper adjustment are unknown without the proper foundational information.

3) Now the doozy....

A lot of the perpetuation of bad information came from Vudoo Gun Works. Can't feed Eley ammo? Here's a follower we held to a belt sander by hand. At this point, one can refer to #2 above. Light strikes with Eley? "Oh yeah, Mike, we lowered barrel torque to 70 foot pounds because the barrels spin in the vise." They had no way to comprehend that my barrel torque spec was part of the headspace equation to ensure that it didn't matter if Lapua or Eley was in the chamber.

How about mag fitment issues and how to adjust them properly? Just watch the video where that says it's "okay if the magazine tilts forward, but if you load against a bag, you'll have a misfeed." Wouldn't this make it not okay if it tilts forward? Again, see #2 above.

Perpetuation of bad information from those not positioned to have a clue what they're saying is the cancerous source of the issues you guys have dealt with and the fact that the issues can be read in every corner of the internet proves how effective todays communications media are. I've been quiet about it until now.

So, my advice is to question the information first while always demanding a higher standard when it comes to everything else. And when you see those guys struggling with rim lock or other such very simple things; help them, it's how we police our own and how we take responsibility for this community. After that, the posers are obvious.

MB
 
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So, let's talk about the REAL reasons there are feeding/cycling issues....

Largely, it's the 1) perpetuation of bad information, which is the greater of all offenses, 2) the failure of manufacturers to properly execute in the design phase, and 3) the "I want to carelessly load my magazine," mentality. So, let's start at the end of these things and work our way forward.

3) The, "I want to carelessly load my magazine" mentality. This is actually an easier one to resolve as depicted by @DownhillFromHere . It's an innocent misconception brought about by various mental components, but the best I can tell, it's largely perpetuated by reason number one. Also, one should see the look I get when I ask, "well, what else about handling your firearm are you currently careless about, or what else do you believe you can be or should be careless about?" That question is a wake up call and quickly resolves magazine loading issues.

2) This next one is a challenge and I won't hit it very hard because there's truly a lot of good stuff out there that interfaces with true-to-scale rimfire platforms. Also, not everyone's design intent is the same, and I don't claim to know all the reasons why one way of why something was done versus doing whatever it is, differently, so I won't speak with conviction about what I have no insight to.

What I do know though, when it comes to certain pieces of critical information, related specifically to AICS magazine and mag well dimensions and location, I personally offered up the actual Accuracy International print information to many chassis makers. I've spoken to this before, so I won't get into it again here, but there are no chassis systems and/or DBMs that are dimensioned the same and magazine fitment is all over the map. The ones I've measured are, well, not good.

This is the single reason we have adjustable things we don't need. And what's worse is, at best, if there's an adjustment procedure provided, it's highly ambiguous, mostly because key dimensions pertaining to proper adjustment are unknown without the proper foundational information.

3) Now the doozy....and a few people are going to be upset about what I'm about to say, but I can't really feel myself caring much about that at all.

A lot of the perpetuation of bad information came from Vudoo Gun Works. Can't feed Eley ammo? Here's a follower we held to a belt sander by hand. At this point, one can refer to #2 above. Light strikes with Eley? "Oh yeah, Mike, we lowered barrel torque to 70 foot pounds because the barrels spin in the vise." They had no way to comprehend that my barrel torque spec was part of the headspace equation to ensure that it didn't matter if Lapua or Eley was in the chamber.

How about mag fitment issues and how to adjust them properly? Just watch Greg Romans video where he says it's "okay if the magazine tilts forward, but if you load against a bag, you'll have a misfeed." Wouldn't this make it not okay if it tilts forward? Again, see #2 above.

Perpetuation of bad information from those not positioned to have a clue what they're saying is the cancerous source of the issues you guys have dealt with and the fact that the issues can be read in every corner of the internet proves how effective todays communications media are. I've been quiet about it until now.

So, my advice is to question the information first while always demanding a higher standard when it comes to everything else. And when you see those guys struggling with rim lock or other such very simple things; help them, it's how we police our own and how we take responsibility for this community. After that, the posers are obvious.

MB
the internet bad information is such a huge thing when it comes to R700 rimfire platforms.

I've got a Vudoo and RimX. While I initially had some problems with the Vudoo, once I learned how to load the magazine correctly and got it set in my stock correctly, and stopped letting hit a bag on a barricade (tilting it backwards)I've had almost zero issues with it in several thousand rounds.

RimX is the same. Get it set correctly and load it properly and it runs fine.

Every time I hear people complain about either, esp. people who've never run one or done any research on how to properly use them, I just roll my eyes. Lots of lazy people want to push the easy button and run a high end mechanical device yet refuse to even attempt to learn how to work it correctly. I mean, the guy who just shot and cleared that stage had no problems therefore I'll do the same. All while completely ignoring that guy who just cleared that stage figured out how to make it all work correctly several thousand rounds ago.
 
the internet bad information is such a huge thing when it comes to R700 rimfire platforms.

I've got a Vudoo and RimX. While I initially had some problems with the Vudoo, once I learned how to load the magazine correctly and got it set in my stock correctly, and stopped letting hit a bag on a barricade (tilting it backwards)I've had almost zero issues with it in several thousand rounds.

RimX is the same. Get it set correctly and load it properly and it runs fine.

Every time I hear people complain about either, esp. people who've never run one or done any research on how to properly use them, I just roll my eyes. Lots of lazy people want to push the easy button and run a high end mechanical device yet refuse to even attempt to learn how to work it correctly. I mean, the guy who just shot and cleared that stage had no problems therefore I'll do the same. All while completely ignoring that guy who just cleared that stage figured out how to make it all work correctly several thousand rounds ago.

I hear ya, but I don’t blame the guys shooting the matches, those are the guys I’m trying to help and reduce their level of frustration after spending a ton of money and issues abound. The research they do has actually fed the problems, not eliminated them.

I’ve not said much about this topic for roughly seven years of listening to people blame the Nylon magazines for the varied feeding issues. Hence, the likely obvious intensity of my comments above, which some are likely to consider something other than the ā€œhigh road,ā€ but it’s time to put blaming the magazines to rest and shift focus to the real reasons.

And, based on the diagrams and explanations posted in many places showing the tilting, rolling and need for an adjustable gadget of some sort, it’s not that the issues aren’t known, but not many will step up and address it openly.

At any rate, you’re 100% correct. Proper setup is key, but you shouldn’t have to care if your magazine hits a bag. The rifle should still run like a Swiss watch. šŸ‘ŠšŸ»

MB
 
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the internet bad information is such a huge thing when it comes to R700 rimfire platforms.

I've got a Vudoo and RimX. While I initially had some problems with the Vudoo, once I learned how to load the magazine correctly and got it set in my stock correctly, and stopped letting hit a bag on a barricade (tilting it backwards)I've had almost zero issues with it in several thousand rounds.

RimX is the same. Get it set correctly and load it properly and it runs fine.

Every time I hear people complain about either, esp. people who've never run one or done any research on how to properly use them, I just roll my eyes. Lots of lazy people want to push the easy button and run a high end mechanical device yet refuse to even attempt to learn how to work it correctly. I mean, the guy who just shot and cleared that stage had no problems therefore I'll do the same. All while completely ignoring that guy who just cleared that stage figured out how to make it all work correctly several thousand rounds ago.
This ā˜ļø

Shooting matches has taught most of us that feeding seems to be an issue with most rimfire rifles.....until you work them out! I have been running 2-10 round and 1-15 round original Vudoo aluminum magazines for years and would not switch for anything.
 
I hear ya, but I don’t blame the guys shooting the matches, those are the guys I’m trying to help and reduce their level of frustration after spending a ton of money and issues abound. The research they do has actually fed the problems, not eliminated them.

On the other hand, just because someone shoots a lot of matches doesn’t mean they’re qualified as a technical consultant (which isn’t what I hear you saying at all). I know a lot of pilots that fly airplanes, but none of them can tell ya how to build it.

I’ve not said much about this topic for roughly seven years of listening to people blame the Nylon magazines for the varied feeding issues.

Hence, the likely obvious intensity of my comments above, which some are likely to consider something other than the ā€œhigh road,ā€ but it’s time to put blaming the magazines to rest and shift focus to the real reasons.

And based on the diagrams and explanations posted everywhere showing the tilting, rolling and need for an adjustable gadget of some sort, it’s not that the issues aren’t known, but not many will step up and address it openly.

At any rate, you’re 100% correct. Proper setup is key, but you shouldn’t have to care if your magazine hits a bag. The rifle should still run like a Swiss watch. šŸ‘ŠšŸ»

MB
I had a Foundation Centurion with a Vudoo bottom metal that fed flawlessly with a properly loaded magazine. See above post about the Glock 22