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“How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

scamp62

scamp62

Private
Minuteman
May 31, 2010
8
0
62
L.A. California
I was reading an interview with one of the record holders that shoot for Savage Arms,
He states that he only cleans his barrel every 200 rounds. I clean mine far more often, so my question to you is “How often do you clean your barrel ??????
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

^ +1
when accuracy drops off
more barrels are ruined from over cleaning than from shooting
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

Went 800+ and only cleaned because I was going to start using HBn and needed to condition my bore first. That was about 300 rounds ago. I wipe down the outside of the rifle, clean the bolt, chamber and lug recesses.
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

Same here, 200 to 300 rounds and then it's out of guilt. One thing I don't use is harsh chemicals. After borescoping many barrels after cleaning, I've learned that no matter how many dry patches you run through the barrel their will always be some residue chemicals in the barrel along the lands.

JamieD

______________________________
Jamie Dodson
Wolf Precision
814-262-7994
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

Used to do every 100 or so but it sounds like that may even be too often!
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

I pull a Bore-snake thru mine before I shoot if the rifle has been sitting over a month. Just to clear any dust. Other than that, only when accuracy suffers.
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

I clean when I feel guilty that my rifle is really dirty. Usually 3-400 rounds.

Just don't be this guy.

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/p86HM0oZId0"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/p86HM0oZId0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

Warning: it's a total waste of your time watching this 5 minute video. There was another guy next to him that had a timer with him and would only take a shot every 10 minutes.
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

I went 2233rds between cleanings. The rifle shot 3/4moa before I cleaned it. After I cleaned (solvent, Sweets, etc) it shot 1.5moa and took 20rds to foul and shot....3/4moa. I'm not going to clean this barrel until the groups open up or I start getting fliers on my ColdBore. YMMV.
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

I clean it every time after the range.
Bore snake it prior to firing to ensure nothing in the bore.

Bore snake it after firing and then a wet patch with solvent, dry patches and one oiled patch for storage.

I just have a problem with leaving my rifles dirty!
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

You'll find a lot of opinions on this matter, but I am an LE sniper, and I can tell you I clean my barrel after every shooting session and I punch the bore before I start a new session to ensure that the bore is the same for every cold bore shot.
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

Bore snake after each shooting!

Real cleaning depends on rifle and caliber (from 40 to 400 rounds).
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: daveog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You'll find a lot of opinions on this matter, but I am an LE sniper, and I can tell you I clean my barrel after every shooting session and I punch the bore before I start a new session to ensure that the bore is the same for every cold bore shot. </div></div>

How many rounds are your shooting sessions?

You will find as an LE shooter, your records and care for your rifle comes into play for litigation purposes. What you are doing to your rifle is not necessarily the best care method.
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

Has anyone on here ever seen any actual court cases either criminal or civil where the cleaning techniques of a LE sniper came into question & actually made a difference in the outcome of the trial....? Just asking....
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mgd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Has anyone on here ever seen any actual court cases either criminal or civil where the cleaning techniques of a LE sniper came into question & actually made a difference in the outcome of the trial....? Just asking....</div></div>
Really? So you do not have to document ammo, lot, your practice time etc? I'm sure there are ample LE shooters on here that can chime in.

I know if there was a botched shooting and I was an attorney I would ask the force for CB shot records. Remember in a court of law you're not necessarily dealing with only facts, perception plays a role too.
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: daveog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You'll find a lot of opinions on this matter, but I am an LE sniper, and I can tell you I clean my barrel after every shooting session and I punch the bore before I start a new session to ensure that the bore is the same for every cold bore shot. </div></div>

Yes, you will find a lot of opinions on this matter.

However as an former Military Sniper, current LE Sniper and lifetime student of the rifle I will do what ensures the most consistent shot to shot performance from me and the rifle.

Not cleaning until the rifle calls for it gives me an absolutely repeatable "cold bore" shot that groups right with the rest of my warm bore shots.

Which do you think is more defendable in court? A practice that ensures consistency or one that ensures deviation?

I clean my bore at 500-600 rounds. It has demonstrated over several thousand rounds that at that interval accuracy has just begun to wane. It has not even come close to "unacceptable".

Cleaning your bore after every shooting session is akin to changing the oil in your car after every drive. There is no need to do it just because it's dirty.

Most of us in the precision rifle game are more concerned with performance than perception. This is doubly so when someone's life is on the line.

 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

For LE shooters, it's not necessarily "how often," but "how consistently."

If you clean after every session and maintain accuracy and consistency and quals... and it's logged, great. If you clean every 4 months and maintain accuracy and consistency and quals... and its logged, great.

It's when you clean after every session and then suddenly you don't clean for 4 months... and don't have a reason why. Then you open yourself up. If you have an issue, an IAD investigator, attorney or prosecutor could make a big deal about the change in procedure (and how it could have contributed to the problem) if you end up in front of a shoot investigation or a jury.

FYI, I used to clean after every session. Now go much longer. And my cold bores are MUCH more consistent. For LE, that cold bore shot is the one that counts. I made note of the change in my log book after a class and based the decision on class training materials and lectures (and copies of both my notes and my class materials are in my personnel/training jacket). That's just part of maintaining the log. Noone can have an issues with your procedures when you have records and justification.

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mgd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Has anyone on here ever seen any actual court cases either criminal or civil where the cleaning techniques of a LE sniper came into question & actually made a difference in the outcome of the trial....? Just asking....</div></div>
Really? So you do not have to document ammo, lot, your practice time etc? I'm sure there are ample LE shooters on here that can chime in.

I know if there was a botched shooting and I was an attorney I would ask the force for CB shot records. Remember in a court of law you're not necessarily dealing with only facts, perception plays a role too. </div></div>

Where do you see me talking about not documenting ammo, lot & practice times out of my question?? Good grief, I simply asked about the cleaning procedures.... We document everything because we were told to do it....but no instructor was ever able to show me where it has actually made a difference in a trial about cleaning procedures, with a documented case.

If you put a round into your hostage instead of your suspect.....you really think it will make any difference in what your logs show? You think the prosecutor is going to say, "Oh, the Officer documented everything he was supposed to....so we won't charge him....."

Simply stated, you put a bullet into the wrong person & your gonna be toast.....ain't nothing in your log or training book gonna save your ass....
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mgd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Simply stated, you put a bullet into the wrong person & your gonna be toast.....ain't nothing in your log or training book gonna save your ass.... </div></div>

Then why document anything at all?
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mgd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Simply stated, you put a bullet into the wrong person & your gonna be toast.....ain't nothing in your log or training book gonna save your ass.... </div></div>

Then why document anything at all? </div></div>

I dealt with civil liability in different forms for 6 years and I'm gonna have to agree with Mike on this one. But then again wtf do I know, I'm not a sniper but I play one on the internet...
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mgd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Simply stated, you put a bullet into the wrong person & your gonna be toast.....ain't nothing in your log or training book gonna save your ass.... </div></div>

Then why document anything at all? </div></div>

Weird isn't it.....

I spoke directly to one of the State Investigators that would be called in if I was involved in a Police Shooting, (our Dept. uses the State agency to investigate all shootings....) I asked him to tell me what they would do or look for in a sniper related shooting. He's already investigated several police shootings....including 2 from our Dept.

He simply stated, "All we care about is if the officer/sniper was legally justified in using Deadly Force in the shooting incident....if not, then your screwed....if you do & you miss & hit someone else....your screwed....if you hit the right person, then fine."

If you hit the wrong person ain't no amount of training records or log books will save your butt. If you hit the right person & were legally justified in shooting, then no amount of training records or logbooks will suddenly negate that & get you into trouble.

He also gave this example...."let's say your Dept. finds itself responding to an active school shooter incident. Two of the patrol officers arrive at the school as the shooter is outside shooting at students. One patrol officer is a SWAT Sniper & grabs his rifle, the other is just a plain ole rookie cop. The sniper gets shot & goes down....the rookie grabs his rifle & takes a shot from 70 yards & hits the shooter....you gonna charge the rookie with anything? Nope.

Where are the training records for the rookie....? Where are the logbook for his shots..? His cleaning records...? Their ain't none & it wouldn't matter. Now, if he missed & hit an innocent person....he's screwed. Just like he would be if he missed with his Glock pistol.....

Now, I'm not arguing against keeping records or training logs or any of that....I do it because I was trained to do so & told to do it by my instructor. But when it comes to cleaning your barrel all I wanted to know is where will this come into play in a court trial? You either shot the right person legally or you didn't....nothing else really matters.
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

Bingo.....

The logs and such are good for several reasons:

1. Advancement of our training. You see where you are weak and where you need to improve.
2. Demonstrating to the brass what your capabilities are. Most Brass are not shooters or doorkickers. Unless they see it on paper that you are fully capable of taking a 200 yard head shot after a run and with a wind, they think you are just boasting.
3. Civil litigation. You can get sued for EVERYTHING, ANYTHING and even doing the RIGHT THING. Recording our capabilities and procedures demonstrates that your actions were or WEREN'T consistent with your training.

When it all comes down to it what mgd45 said is correct. If you shoot the right guy for the right reasons you are golden. If you kill the hostage no amount of documentation will save you. However if you kill the bad guys and get drug into court because his family thinks you did something wrong the documentation and expert witnesses may take the heat off.
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

I clean my guns about every three or four times out, if i feel frisky i may run a bore snake through between just for the hell of it, but all my guns shoot and run better a little dirty. most don't really start shooting well till they have 20-30 rounds through em.

it doesn't hurt em to leave em dirty. and yes you will do more damage then good cleaning them often like that. keep them lubed yes, prevent rust yes but a little fouling in the barrel is good. Even when i do clean em i like to put some fouling shots through em before i put em away
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

I clean my rifle once a year, whether it needs it or not.
wink.gif


It's kinda like bathing: a shower once a year; whether I need it or not.
laugh.gif


Documentation works in both directions. Department administrators insist on it because they are told that Plaintiffs can make unsubstantiated allegations of failure to train. But many administrators don't understand that more documentation is not necessarily better documentation. Best of all is having a well-trained person behind the rifle, with demonstrably good judgment, who knows what he is doing and can explain to a lay-person what he did and why. Awarding sniper positions as perks for political patronage is done at one's own peril.
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Awarding sniper positions as perks for political patronage is done at one's own peril. </div></div>

Very well said.
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Awarding sniper positions as perks for political patronage is done at one's own peril. </div></div> Very well said. </div></div>I only wish that I didn't have to say it.
smile.gif
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

Check out this court decision....

http://www.aele.org/long-honolulu.html

<span style="font-weight: bold">Long story short</span>: Police sniper kills man with a rifle....his family sues, claiming their son's 4th Amendment Rights were violated....case is decided by The United States Court of Appeals in the 9th Circuit...

The Court ruled that the Police Sniper was legally justified in the use of deadly force.....therefore he is entitled to Qualified Immunity. Because of this, the sniper didn't violate the deceased 4th Amendment Rights and can't be held liable.

None of his logbooks or cleaning procedures would've made a hill of beans to the Court....all that mattered was that he was legally justified in the use of Deadly Force...civil suit is dismissed.....
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

+1 for cleaning every 200-400 rounds, depending on barrel.

Love the Boretec Eliminator. Not harsh at all. I have a rifle that has only seen Eliminator in its barrel and it shoots lights out. Doesnt matter if it hasnt been cleaned in 200rnds or it was just cleaned.
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

Whenever it starts to lose accuracy, varies widely with the barrel. Some of my remington factory barrels would foul after about 20 rounds but most of my better barrels are good up to about 200-300 rounds before I notice the accuracy degrade.

I always pull a bore-snake with CLP on it through after shooting though since most of my barrels are cromoly and I'm paranoid about rusting.
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: buffybuster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I went 2233rds between cleanings. The rifle shot 3/4moa before I cleaned it. After I cleaned (solvent, Sweets, etc) it shot 1.5moa and took 20rds to foul and shot....3/4moa. I'm not going to clean this barrel until the groups open up or I start getting fliers on my ColdBore. YMMV. </div></div>

I've had the same experience with an Adams & Bennet barrel from Midway I shot. It took about a box to settle down after being cleaned. The first two or three would be same hole, the next one way right (2"@100yd) like I had pulled it, and then over the rest of the box the group would slowy migrate back to point of aim. It was frustrating and took me a while to figure out what was going on.

I finally just stopped cleaning it and now it shoots to POA pretty well, I can keep it under 1 moa on a good day.

It was a cheap barrel and would probably benefit from being lapped or a tubbs final finish, but its plenty easy to just not clean it.
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mgd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Police sniper kills man with a rifle....his family sues, claiming their son's 4th Amendment Rights were violated....case is decided by The United States Court of Appeals in the 9th Circuit...The Court ruled that the Police Sniper was legally justified in the use of deadly force.....therefore he is entitled to Qualified Immunity. Because of this, the sniper didn't violate the deceased 4th Amendment Rights and can't be held liable.</div></div>Close. But two separate issues: The holding was that the officer did not violate the suspect's fourth amendment rights <span style="text-decoration: underline">and</span> that he is entitled to qualified immunity.

The case was decided by the trial court which granted summary disposition. The mother of the suspect appealed, but the appeals court upheld summary disposition for defendants City and County.

The issue was: even assuming the officer did not shoot, whether he is entitled to qualified immunity under the facts. The finding was that the officer had probable cause to believe that that suspect posed an immediate threat of serious harm to others. Therefore he was entitled to qualified immunity.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dareposte</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whenever it starts to lose accuracy, varies widely with the barrel. Some of my remington factory barrels would foul after about 20 rounds...</div></div>Why do you think that fouling is the cause of the poor accuracy here?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dareposte</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've had the same experience with an Adams & Bennet barrel from Midway I shot. It took about a box to settle down after being cleaned. The first two or three would be same hole, the next one way right (2"@100yd) like I had pulled it, and then over the rest of the box the group would slowy migrate back to point of aim. It was frustrating and took me a while to figure out what was going on...It was a cheap barrel and would probably benefit from being lapped or a tubbs final finish, but its plenty easy to just not clean it. </div></div>Why do you think that the quality of the barrel was the cause of the accuracy deviation here?
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

I am a LE Sniper Team Leader for a county wide team and have instructed at the state level... Just a little background.

In the beginning I bought into the idea of meticulously logging each shot and cleaning every 40 rounds. The cleaning aspect changed for me after I lost accuracy after 6k rounds through a 308. The barrel was literally cleaned too often. I adopted the same mentality that LowLight wisely told me a year or so before destroying the barrel... Clean every 300-400 rounds unless you plan on storing the rifle for a long period of time. Ever since then I have yet to have an issue with accuracy and my 308 barrels last to the 10k round mark or slightly farther.

Looking at the LE aspect. I have been instructing basic and advanced LE firearms for the past 8 years at all levels and I am always amazed why we hold snipers and scoped weapons to a different standard. What I have come to realize is from a documentation stand point all weapons are on the same level. There is no legal reason for anyone to keep a cleaning log for a scoped rifle or a data book for that matter. However, the need for maintenance logs and training records are paramount regardless of the weapon system. Many people in the LE community feel a need to go the extra mile when documenting scoped rifle training but much of it is not needed.

The things you will have to defend in civil or criminal proceedings have to do with the following:

Probable Cause
Justification for the use of force
Failure to Train

Failure to train is the one that will bite most agencies. The supreme court has ruled that lack of funds is not a suitable defense for agencies but go to any training bureau and ask what holds them back from conducting the most basic of training classes and you will find lack of funds as the primary cause. Shooting groups at 100 yards form the prone once a month, filling out a data book and cleaning your rifle is not sufficient but that is what most agencies do most of the time.

Data books are important... More so to the shooter than anyone else. A cleaning routine and maintenance routine is just a important but there is no need to get crazy about it. I can assure you that the concept of detail weapons cleaning came from the military and the reason for it wasn't necessarily to have clean weapons, it was to occupy the troops time.
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

300-400 rds. My AR gets a little more b/c I shoot dirty ass Wolf ammo through it...
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

I am a delta force super high speed sniper and I clean after every round. How do you ignorant people have more than 10 posts on the hide and not know how to actually take care of your weapons? Bunch of chairborne rangers. Clean when accuracy degrades.
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cowboy_bravo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am a LE Sniper Team Leader for a county wide team and have instructed at the state level... Just a little background.

In the beginning I bought into the idea of meticulously logging each shot and cleaning every 40 rounds. The cleaning aspect changed for me after I lost accuracy after 6k rounds through a 308. The barrel was literally cleaned too often. I adopted the same mentality that LowLight wisely told me a year or so before destroying the barrel... Clean every 300-400 rounds unless you plan on storing the rifle for a long period of time. Ever since then I have yet to have an issue with accuracy and my 308 barrels last to the 10k round mark or slightly farther.

Looking at the LE aspect. I have been instructing basic and advanced LE firearms for the past 8 years at all levels and I am always amazed why we hold snipers and scoped weapons to a different standard. What I have come to realize is from a documentation stand point all weapons are on the same level. There is no legal reason for anyone to keep a cleaning log for a scoped rifle or a data book for that matter. However, the need for maintenance logs and training records are paramount regardless of the weapon system. Many people in the LE community feel a need to go the extra mile when documenting scoped rifle training but much of it is not needed.

The things you will have to defend in civil or criminal proceedings have to do with the following:

Probable Cause
Justification for the use of force
Failure to Train

Failure to train is the one that will bite most agencies. The supreme court has ruled that lack of funds is not a suitable defense for agencies but go to any training bureau and ask what holds them back from conducting the most basic of training classes and you will find lack of funds as the primary cause. Shooting groups at 100 yards form the prone once a month, filling out a data book and cleaning your rifle is not sufficient but that is what most agencies do most of the time.

Data books are important... More so to the shooter than anyone else. A cleaning routine and maintenance routine is just a important but there is no need to get crazy about it. I can assure you that the concept of detail weapons cleaning came from the military and the reason for it wasn't necessarily to have clean weapons, it was to occupy the troops time. </div></div>

Its not to occupy time! Look at the systems we use and the needs of said systems. If soldiers did not clean and maintain them then we would have lost a lot more soldiers to direct fire engagements!

Please gents, think before you post! Some dumbass might read this and get the wrong idea thinking it pertains to their said systems ie M4, M9, M240B, M249, M2HB etc etc vs the bore of the M24 or M40.
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TalkingBush</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am a delta force super high speed sniper and I clean after every round. How do you ignorant people have more than 10 posts on the hide and not know how to actually take care of your weapons? Bunch of chairborne rangers. Clean when accuracy degrades. </div></div>

You mean Delta Farce?
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

I just got out of the Army after 4 years. Guess how many times I was taught how to clean my M4? None. Granted I knew how from my civilian life. I have been to a lot of highspeed schools, have my EIB/CIB, got slotted for ranger, but decided to ETS and was an 11B my whole contract, but I still was never taught how to clean it. It was a time sinker to clean weapons for grunts and pogs alike.

Edit: Yes, delta farce, sorry my satellite phone has rigid buttons. I'm out here in dirkadirkastan on the hide.
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stefan73</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Please gents, think before you post! Some dumbass might read this and get the wrong idea thinking it pertains to their said systems ie M4, M9, M240B, M249, M2HB etc etc vs the bore of the M24 or M40.</div></div>

If he cannot distinguish the context of this discussion, he shouldn't be in charge of a weapon in the first place.
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If he cannot distinguish the context of this discussion, he shouldn't be in charge of a weapon in the first place. </div></div>Take it you haven't met many military guys. I'm sure you have, but you are giving them way way too much credit.
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stefan73</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Please gents, think before you post! Some dumbass might read this and get the wrong idea thinking it pertains to their said systems ie M4, M9, M240B, M249, M2HB etc etc vs the bore of the M24 or M40.</div></div>

If he cannot distinguish the context of this discussion, he shouldn't be in charge of a weapon in the first place. </div></div>

I'm not knocking my fellow soldier. Some of the kids I had met grew up in the city and do not have much for weapons experience. We have seen first hand what happens to "support/rear echelon troops" who do not maintain their weapons (she became famous as did the rest of the unit that day).
I have seen some stupid stuff, sometimes the result of being tired, not eating right or sometimes the result of their leaders not investing the time or not having the time to invest in them!!
These are challenging times, some soldiers finish their training to go strait into a deployment and/or meet their first unit in theater!! Not an easy thing to do!

Either way, if they are here they are probably here to learn and better their skills and themselves so they can't be all too bad!

BTW, my soldiers almost as important to me as my wife and children are! I would gladly sacrifice my blood for theirs if it ment them comming home!

So I say this with the utmost respect for my soldiers!

Just my .02
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stefan73</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BTW, my soldiers almost as important to me as my wife and children are! I would gladly sacrifice my blood for theirs if it ment them comming home!</div></div>
If there were more of you, this guy would have reenlisted. I only saw two of these NCOs in 4 years.
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TalkingBush</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stefan73</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BTW, my soldiers almost as important to me as my wife and children are! I would gladly sacrifice my blood for theirs if it ment them comming home!</div></div>
If there were more of you, this guy would have reenlisted. I only saw two of these NCOs in 4 years. </div></div> I'm an O4. I only stayed in because of the soldiers! They made the job worth it and I feel that I have something to offer them and can prepare them for war which is why I'm still in!
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

Most of the good guys get passed up and then turn to shit bags once they realize trying isn't getting them anywhere. Anyhow, enough about that. [/offtopic]

Edit: You're an O4, that explains you having enough of a brain to post competent sentences. Now go chew out some bad NCOs.
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TalkingBush</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most of the good guys get passed up and then turn to shit bags once they realize trying isn't getting them anywhere. Anyhow, enough about that. [/offtopic] </div></div>
Last thing I'll post on here off topic.

Some people turn into careerists and forget that it is the soldiers that make them. It is easy to get caught up in the politics (at the 05 and up level it gets worse)! Some people just loose site of who they are and where they come from!

I still do plenty of stupid stuff!!! I just had some good NCO's and fellow soldiers to straiten me out. Its not about the individual its about the team!

Just my .02
 
Re: “How often do you clean your barrel ??????”

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cowboy_bravo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shooting groups at 100 yards form the prone once a month, filling out a data book and cleaning your rifle is not sufficient but that is what most agencies do most of the time.</div></div>Or, in some cases they do even less because that is all they know how to do.

The training curriculum should have priorities and goals, and specify training tasks by sub catageory. The training record should have documentation of each officer's performance of tasks known to be specific to the duties of the team member.

The problem is that few departments know what the duties of a sniper are, never mind what specific tasks are elements of those duties.

And how many departments calibrate their SFP scopes against the hard stop? One doesn't have to have a range, or ever fire a shot, to do that, but most departments don't do it because they don't know how to do it or why it is important.
 
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