“Student debt” solution

[TurboTrout]

Allow them to be able to bankrupt out of them, just like a car or home loan.

Colleges should be cool with it, I mean if the degrees actually help the students professionally, they’ll just pay them off with all that money they are making with their expensive degree you sold them.

 

[acudaowner]

it's easy let them work it off as slave laborers three birds one stone .
companies get cheap , low wage labor also getting a person who will learn a job .
the kids will get work experience while getting to work off that crazy high tuition they accrued and actual real world experience in a field and maybe dig a few ditches along the way .
who can put a price on watching some snow flake work not just work but work hard to make them (by force) appreciate the value of a good hard days work paving roads and digging out houses sounds like a wonderful life lesson .

 

[Ruff 364]

Screw that. They made the deal, they pay it back. Doesn't matter if they weren't smart enough to know that living off student loans for years wasn't a smart idea.

Nobody is forgiving my debts, and I pay them off.

 

[eflyguy]

Nobody is forgiving my debts, and I pay them off.

Precisely. Go get a freaking job in their chosen field of expertise.

 

[Docsherm]

it's easy let them work it off as slave laborers three birds on stone .
companies get cheap , low wage labor also getting a person who will learn a job .
the kids will get work experience while getting to work off that crazy high tuition they accrued and actual real world experience in a field and maybe dig a few ditches along the way .
who can put a price on watching some snow flake work not just work but work hard to make them (by force) appreciate the value of a good hard days work paving roads and digging out houses sounds like a wonderful life lesson .

Can't we just ship them to Australia like the British used to do?

 

[TurboTrout]

nah, if you indoctrinated kids from kindergarten to buy your janky ass product, turned out it’s largely a scam, with little ROI, should be able to BK it like a used clunker car.

There would be a TON less African dance PHDs if that was the case.

Let your product stand on its merits, if it has any.


and get .gov out of “education”

 

[Matches Malone]

Either people need to be responsible for the loans they take out or they need to raise age limit of adult hood for everything. Because apparently the sheltering of children or some shit has lead to adults denying responsibility for anything.

It doesn’t help, when some of these fantasy driven idiots take out a loan for tuition, and get a degree in liberal arts majoring in basket weaving or some stupid shit. They dun find out that NOBODY cares right quick.

It’s why the military use to be so beneficial. You could fuck off while young, work, get a trade, get life experience, pay into your GI bill and later figure out with a semi mature mind what you might want to do. Hirers would recognize this generally, and have preference for people like this rather then some stupid fucking 20.5 year old moron who doesn’t even know what a women is.

 

[candyx]

I can see forgiving the loans in return for using them when the Troops are deployed to clear land mines with a rake to protect the Troops.

 

[softcock]

It's to late . the Trillions have been borrowed to pay for the forgiveness carrot on a string, to be dangled in-front of them when time comes, when the Votes are needed .
.

 

[GreenGO Juan]

F them. Don't take out loans you cant pay.

 

[TurboTrout]

I can see forgiving the loans in return for using them when the Troops are deployed to clear land mines with a rake to protect the Troops.

I don’t really blame victims of gov indoctrination

Nor do I support our recent BS politicians $ windfall “wars”

 

[TurboTrout]

Either people need to be responsible for the loans they take out or they need to raise age limit of adult hood for everything. Because apparently the sheltering of children or some shit has lead to adults denying responsibility for anything.

It doesn’t help, when some of these fantasy driven idiots take out a loan for tuition, and get a degree in liberal arts majoring in basket weaving or some stupid shit. They dun find out that NOBODY cares right quick.

It’s why the military use to be so beneficial. You could fuck off while young, work, get a trade, get life experience, pay into your GI bill and later figure out with a semi mature mind what you might want to do. Hirers would recognize this generally, and have preference for people like this rather then some stupid fucking 20.5 year old moron who doesn’t even know what a women is.

Giving all that tax money to a airforce plumber Is one of the reasons we are in the economic place we are in.

I think tax payer force funded college for troops should be limited to those with a Purple Heart, or people who could demonstrate how they protected main streets constitutional rights.

If you filed papers or repaired a HMMWV, congrats you did better than taking your other job offer at Walmart, but you must release from the tax payer tit.


Also

 

[anon]

Student loans were dischargeable in bankruptcy prior to 1976.

 

[gigamortis]

Don't forget the millions these useless degree offering universities have squandered away in their endowments. Leave the taxpayers alone. Liquidate the endowments.

 

[OldSalty2]

A choice of complete payback or 6 months in the frontlines fighting for ukraine sounds like a even trade.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

A choice of complete payback or 6 months in the frontlines fighting for ukraine sounds like a even trade.

That’s not an even trade and the only one winning on that is Ukraine.

Fuck ukraine.

 

[Matches Malone]

Giving all that tax money to a airforce plumber Is one of the reasons we are in the economic place we are in.

I think tax payer force funded college for troops should be limited to those with a Purple Heart, or people who could demonstrate how they protected main streets constitutional rights.

If you filed papers or repaired a HMMWV, congrats you did better than taking your other job offer at Walmart, but you must release from the tax payer tit.


Also

All that tax money is not that much for getting people who served back from being behind. To explain and an example: It’s why so many people in the .mil stick with federal jobs.

Unless you know someone, or you have some unusual resources, it’s hard to get out most .mil specific jobs at the age of 35 and simply do something else. I speak from experience. No one except private or federal contractors, training facilities and 3 letter agencies cared about my deployment history, credentials, clearances and qualifications. Making a lateral move into something completely different on your own tricky. So I stayed in what I know, because it turns out it cost money to live, and companies paid me a lot of money to do pipe hitter shit. I didn’t have the option to go home and “figure my life out” when I got out.

I’m trying to eat right now so I’m not watching the whole video, although I like Jordon Peterson, I’m not sure what IQ has to do with anything.

This is about people who are not well guided, or mature enough to make a adult decision that will effect their futures, then complain and want their money back. I’d argue that they are quite smart as they are trying to game the game. That doesn’t mean that they didn’t stupidly pick a dead end degree, or that they have any value to a specific job market.

 

[NY700]

Screw that. They made the deal, they pay it back. Doesn't matter if they weren't smart enough to know that living off student loans for years wasn't a smart idea.

Nobody is forgiving my debts, and I pay them off.

This perspective misses the larger point in several areas.
1. It is functionally better for the economy of the country to wipe out the debt. This loan forgiveness doesn’t wipe private loans. It’s talking about the federal backed loans. Ever dollar wiped becomes a dollar spent I. The economy. As a small business owner a person would love this that more money moving in the system.

2. They are targeting loans that were given based on false information provided by corrupt institutions. This isn’t a kid who went to Stanford and ten up $100k in loans and the. Didn’t land the $200k job they wanted. It’s the person who went to Everest to become a medical assistant or bill coder who was presented with boxes of fake info supporting BS job placement rates. They were an absolute scam. Even worse in many cases these places were federally vetted and missed it. Mostly they targeted vets u set the GI bill

 

[TurboTrout]

All that tax money is not that much for getting people who served back from being behind. To explain and an example: It’s why so many people in the .mil stick with federal jobs.

Unless you know someone, or you have some unusual resources, it’s hard to get out most .mil specific jobs at the age of 35 and simply do something else. I speak from experience. No one except private or federal contractors, training facilities and 3 letter agencies cared about my deployment history, credentials, clearances and qualifications. Making a lateral move into something completely different on your own tricky. So I stayed in what I know, because it turns out it cost money to live, and companies paid me a lot of money to do pipe hitter shit. I didn’t have the option to go home and “figure my life out” when I got out.

I’m trying to eat right now so I’m not watching the whole video, although I like Jordon Peterson, I’m not sure what IQ has to do with anything.

This is about people who are not well guided, or mature enough to make a adult decision that will effect their futures, then complain and want their money back. I’d argue that they are quite smart as they are trying to game the game. That doesn’t mean that they didn’t stupidly pick a dead end degree, or that they have any value to a specific job market.

IQ has a ton to do with everything, no fixing stupid no matter how much $$ you toss at “education”

And I have NOTHING owed to some airforce plumber for paying for their whole education and life and everything else, nor some dude who kicked in an goat farmers door half a world away, get off welfare.

 

[quietmike]

If you got a useless degree in a laughable field as a balm to your self esteem issues, fuck you for being a pathetic loser. Ask your mom why you don't know who your daddy is, and quit trying to live off others.

 

[JPC13]

A choice of complete payback or 6 months in the frontlines fighting for ukraine sounds like a even trade.

Why the fuck should anyone fight for a corrupt shithole like Ukraine?

 

[TurboTrout]

If you got a useless degree in a laughable field as a balm to your self esteem issues, fuck you for being a pathetic loser. Ask your mom why you don't know who your daddy is, and quit trying to live off others.

So you defend this we who sell those pointless degrees?

 

[Matches Malone]

IQ has a ton to do with everything, no fixing stupid no matter how much $$ you toss at “education”

And I have NOTHING owed to some airforce plumber for paying for their whole education and life and everything else, nor some dude who kicked in an goat farmers door half a world away, get off welfare.

It doesn’t. IQ has no specific standards first off. Which IQ? Stanford? Differential ability? Lol
They test specific things. Scoring median does not make you dumb. As a matter of fact, since you’re such a Jordon Peterson fan, IQ tends to go down with age…so are we taking IQ values in ones prime, or through an average age group?

You don’t owe me anything. Don’t pay the tax. If enough people agree, then let the military dwindle down make it policy. It’s not my problem really anymore.

If that’s the case, then I don’t want to pay into ANY programs that don’t suite me, since it’s all about me, right?

Fuck military defense fund. I don’t have beef with anyone. Fuck interest on federal debt, I didn’t make it.
Fuck unemployment programs…I got options.
Fuck education programs, if I can’t have a GI Bill then fuck your federal education grants and funding. Your education isn’t on me. Energy and environment…nope. Medical research, eh. When it’s my time it’s my time.
Agriculture…go grow your own food.

Greedy ass lazy fucks. Living off My 32% tax bracket.

 

[TurboTrout]

It doesn’t. IQ has no specific standards first off. Which IQ? Stanford? Differential ability? Lol
They test specific things. Scoring median does not make you dumb. As a matter of fact, since you’re such a Jordon Peterson fan, IQ tends to go down with age…so are we taking IQ values in ones prime, or through an average age group?

You don’t owe me anything. Don’t pay the tax. If enough people agree, then let the military dwindle down make it policy. It’s not my problem really anymore.

If that’s the case, then I don’t want to pay into ANY programs that don’t suite me, since it’s all about me, right?

Fuck military defense fund. I don’t have beef with anyone. Fuck interest on federal debt, I didn’t make it.
Fuck unemployment programs…I got options.
Fuck education programs, if I can’t have a GI Bill then fuck your federal education grants and funding. Your education isn’t on me. Energy and environment…nope. Medical research, eh. When it’s my time it’s my time.
Agriculture…go grow your own food.

Greedy ass lazy fucks. Living off My 32% tax bracket.

If I don’t pay tax to “educate” or rather indoctrinate the stupid, government men with guns will come to my door with violence

 

[quietmike]

So you defend this we who sell those pointless degrees?

If you're an idiot, get ready to be separated from your cash.

PT Barnum Would Trick People With A "This Way To Egress" Sign, But Why?

PT Barnum who would trick patrons with a sign that read "this way to the egress." PT Barnum is probably best remembered as one of the greatest entertainers

unrealfacts.com

These useless degrees didn't exist until government started subsidizing student loans.

 

[Texascbr]

Agreed, take a loan pay it back.

The answer to student loans is to get the interest rates to a realistic level. I know grads that are paying 7% interest (and more) on six figure loans but paying half that on home loans and auto loans are less than 2% (interest rates have recently changed as everyone should be aware but the premise remains). The lenders have a loan that cannot be extinguished by bankruptcy, is insured by the government against default and has little service or origination responsibility. These should be low interest loans not a meal ticket for lenders.

I would like to see an investigation into how student loan lenders were able to get such a sweetheart deal.

 

[quietmike]

I got a masters in underwater baketweaving and cant understand why I can't get a $250k/year job like my political science professor told me?
Whaaa! Someone else should pay my debt.

 

[quietmike]

Agreed, take a loan pay it back.

The answer to student loans is to get the interest rates to a realistic level. I know grads that are paying 7% interest (and more) on six figure loans but paying half that on home loans and auto loans are less than 2% (interest rates have recently changed as everyone should be aware but the premise remains). The lenders have a loan that cannot be extinguished by bankruptcy, is insured by the government against default and has little service or origination responsibility. These should be low interest loans not a meal ticket for lenders.

I would like to see an investigation into how student loan lenders were able to get such a sweetheart deal.

Leftys are parasitic hypocrites.

 

[spamassassin]

and get .gov out of “education”

Since the vast majority of student loans are govt guaranteed and this is the exact reason why you can't BK your way out of them, allowing them to be BK dischargable would only equate to yet another cash transfer from those that already pay taxes to those that don't and never will. What you're suggesting is essentially a free education in African dance to all comers and all you have to do for it is fuck up your credit right out of college like every single college student does already anyway. The problem identification bit you nailed like a messiah to a cross but the solution suggested is beyond over-simplistic, completely not thought through fail sauce.

 

[n2ishun]

You would think they had learned better...
After all, they went to college.

 

[Tims]

There is no solution to the student loan debt problem.

If you look at it from the governments point of view its a win for them. You can't BK on the loan. It will take you 30 years to pay back your 100k loan with your communications degree. You are now a financial Slave. This is the end goal of all government to turn its citizens into slaves .

This is a problem the government has created you can't expect them to fix it when they are the problem.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

You would think they had learned better...
After all, they went to college.

They didn’t get smarted until AFTER college.

They signed the papers when they were still dumb.

No refunds.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

There is no solution to the student loan debt problem.

If you look at it from the governments point of view its a win for them. You can't BK on the loan. It will take you 30 years to pay back your 100k loan with your communications degree. You are now a financial Slave. This is the end goal of all government to turn its citizens into slaves .

This is a problem the government has created you can't expect them to fix it when they are the problem.

There is a solution and it’s pretty damn simple.

Pay your fucking debt.

I don’t give a shit if your liberal arts degree landed you a job stocking shelves overnight at the Adam and Eve store.

Not my problem.

 

[Bradu]

Some of them should have put some thought into their education and not picked worthless fucking degrees. Between that and the ones that went to college just to party and get out of work for a few more years, they can deal with the consequences of their shitty choices.

 

[wvfarrier]

My cousin got a degree, I shit you not, in philosophy!!! And she doesnt understand why fkn walmart wont hire her as a manager

 

[Fig]

Giving all that tax money to a airforce plumber Is one of the reasons we are in the economic place we are in.

I think tax payer force funded college for troops should be limited to those with a Purple Heart, or people who could demonstrate how they protected main streets constitutional rights.

If you filed papers or repaired a HMMWV, congrats you did better than taking your other job offer at Walmart, but you must release from the tax payer tit.


Also

It’s around $18,000 a school year if you serve 4 years you fucking dipshit. That would pay for college in 1968. It doesn’t even pay for one semester today. Every bit helps, but this is no fucking windfall, and is now a relic.

If you enlist for yourself you will be VERY fucking disappointed. That’s why it’s called SERVICE.

 

[supercorndogs]

How about a money back guarantee degrees? You don't want your degree anymore, return it for forgiveness of unpaid tuition. Not "student debt" you don't get to live off your student loan money college then get your money back. Or even better, how about we stop forcing places to hold a job ransom for a degree. The government didn't just guarantee the loans, they gaurteed the students by making laws that forced them to go to a college to work a particular job.

 

[roostercogburn98]

I think tax payer force funded college for troops should be limited to those with a Purple Heart, or people who could demonstrate how they protected main streets constitutional rights.

How do you prove the second part of that statement without any doubt? Take their word?

What about old school .mil guys who invested into a GI bill that was more than likely used as investment capitol, and made someone else money? Like me for instance, I paid into my GI bill over 20 years ago, that’s a long time for my money to be making someone else money, even if I have touched my end of it.

 

[OldSalty2]

That’s not an even trade and the only one winning on that is Ukraine.

Fuck ukraine.

Give it some more thought lol

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

Give it some more thought lol

Now I get it

But the taxpayer is still on the hoof for that debt.

They’ll just increase my taxes to recoup the loss.

 

[Trophy Case]

Jesse Kelley is absolutely on point in this podcast from a few months back.....it's not what your aspiring college bound student wants to hear as they are excited about going to college and need some help with their 4 year "indoctrination" but these are the cold hard FACTS pure and simple.
https://www.iheart.com/podcast/390-...962174/episode/hour-2-student-loans-96210937/
Please give this a listen...simple and brilliant!! Start at 16:25 through 20:15 mark.

 

[wade2big]

It’s around $18,000 a school year if you serve 4 years you fucking dipshit. That would pay for college in 1968. It doesn’t even pay for one semester today. Every bit helps, but this is no fucking windfall, and is now a relic.

If you enlist for yourself you will be VERY fucking disappointed. That’s why it’s called SERVICE.

What/who do the enlisted serve? Its not America, the people, or the constitution. Anyone who believes otherwise is a brainwashed fool. This serving your country lie has to stop.

All that tax money is not that much for getting people who served back from being behind. To explain and an example: It’s why so many people in the .mil stick with federal jobs.

Unless you know someone, or you have some unusual resources, it’s hard to get out most .mil specific jobs at the age of 35 and simply do something else. I speak from experience. No one except private or federal contractors, training facilities and 3 letter agencies cared about my deployment history, credentials, clearances and qualifications. Making a lateral move into something completely different on your own tricky. So I stayed in what I know, because it turns out it cost money to live, and companies paid me a lot of money to do pipe hitter shit. I didn’t have the option to go home and “figure my life out” when I got out.

I’m trying to eat right now so I’m not watching the whole video, although I like Jordon Peterson, I’m not sure what IQ has to do with anything.

This is about people who are not well guided, or mature enough to make a adult decision that will effect their futures, then complain and want their money back. I’d argue that they are quite smart as they are trying to game the game. That doesn’t mean that they didn’t stupidly pick a dead end degree, or that they have any value to a specific job market.

So basically the military of a corrupt government creates life long statists who can’t survive unless on the gov tit funded by exhausted taxpayers which ever increases the size and power of said corrupt murderous gov’t. Who would of thought?

 

[P-Squared]

How about charging it back to the school/department who issued the degree? Just take it out of the school's federal funding for the amount of the loan. If you were able to tie it to the department, the various 'studies' degrees would soon eat up all that department's dollars and that degree would disappear.

Next, make the school carry the note without the ability to sell it off to a broker. They would have to start thinking about what degrees would be a good risk, and what degrees would not be a good risk. Good risk degrees get a better interest rate, and the 'sub-prime' degrees would get a higher rate because of the risk.

That's how it works out in the 'REAL' world. Suck it up buttercup, you're only special to you mom. (and you weren't really her favorite either)

 

[Matches Malone]

What/who do the enlisted serve? Its not America, the people, or the constitution. Anyone who believes otherwise is a brainwashed fool. This serving your country lie has to stop.



So basically the military of a corrupt government creates life long statists who can’t survive unless on the gov tit funded by exhausted taxpayers which ever increases the size and power of said corrupt murderous gov’t. Who would of thought?

You want to hear what you want to hear. I said it was harder. Because it is. It would be harder for ANYONE in any career. If you are a firefighter, and at 35 you randomly decide you want to move to a marketing and investment firm, how do you think that’s going to work? It’s easier to stay in the fire/emt world. Maybe, there’s a bridge in the medical world, but if you want NOTHING to do with firefighting….you’re behind at a late stage of your life.

That said, when conflict does happen, regardless of legitimacy, or perceived corruption, you’re suggestion is to take away all incentives, use people up in their prime, let them walk away physically fucked and uneducated. No ability to make a laterally career change. Sure.

Don’t be the asshole taking to the internet how everyone is a coward for not volunteering or having no interest in joining at that point. Which would lead to drafting. You remember Vietnam? The corrupt and murderous government hasn’t changed that much since then..

People don’t join for the insane paycheck, that’s for sure. I didn’t have time to do college IN the military…some did, I didn’t….so why have a military? Why join if there’s no benefit?

 

[wade2big]

You want to hear what you want to hear. I said it was harder. Because it is. It would be harder for ANYONE in any career. If you are a firefighter, and at 35 you randomly decide you want to move to a marketing and investment firm, how do you think that’s going to work? It’s easier to stay in the fire/emt world. Maybe, there’s a bridge in the medical world, but if you want NOTHING to do with firefighting….you’re behind at a late stage of your life.

That said, when conflict does happen, regardless of legitimacy, or perceived corruption, you’re suggestion is to take away all incentives, use people up in their prime, let them walk away physically fucked and uneducated. No ability to make a laterally career change. Sure.

Don’t be the asshole taking to the internet how everyone is a coward for not volunteering or having no interest in joining at that point. Which would lead to drafting. You remember Vietnam? The corrupt and murderous government hasn’t changed that much since then..

People don’t join for the insane paycheck, that’s for sure. I didn’t have time to do college IN the military…some did, I didn’t….so why have a military? Why join if there’s no benefit?

You will never here me call anyone a coward for not wanting to join the military. I do my best to persuade any young man not to. There is no honor in serving and possibly getting maimed and killed for bankers, oligarchs, and politicians while destabilizing and displacing innocent people across the globe. This is what soldiers in the US military do and I will not lie and say otherwise. I will play no part in brainwashing people or giving unwarranted prestige to someone who already is.

There should be no benefits to taking a government job. 24 million men and women work are on the gov’t tit and that’s not counting the welfare rats. That’s 24 million people working for gov who don’t pay taxes themselves and are a drain on the rest of us that do.

The .gov can shove that draft right up there ass. It would be costly for any man coming for my son or nephews. I wished the same would have happened during the Vietnam draft. I think the public was blinded and dumbed by the “serving your country” propaganda for a needless war and many men who wanted nothing of it paid the price. I would like to think that people are wiser today although I’m not certain of it.

 

[Animal357]

Idiot Husband of my wife’s idiot friend has a doctorate in ancient Asian religions. The only job in his field is teaching ancient Asian religions

 

[Matches Malone]

You will never here me call anyone a coward for not wanting to join the military. I do my best to persuade any young man not to. There is no honor in serving and possibly getting maimed and killed for bankers, oligarchs, and politicians while destabilizing and displacing innocent people across the globe. This is what soldiers in the US military do and I will not lie and say otherwise. I will play no part in brainwashing people or giving unwarranted prestige to someone who already is.

There should be no benefits to taking a government job. 24 million men and women work are on the gov’t tit and that’s not counting the welfare rats. That’s 24 million people working for gov who don’t pay taxes themselves and are a drain on the rest of us that do.

The .gov can shove that draft right up there ass. It would be costly for any man coming for my son or nephews. I wished the same would have happened during the Vietnam draft. I think the public was blinded and dumbed by the “serving your country” propaganda for a needless war and many men who wanted nothing of it paid the price. I would like to think that people are wiser today although I’m not certain of it.

Employees pay tax. Mil pays tax. State and fed where it applies while conus.

I just don’t see it the same way. As a federal employee you work like anywhere else. The benefits are roll overs for retirements and preferences that exist from military service, but other that, it’s a job as far as jobs go.

The issue was the GI bill… people like you would put into policy no benefit to person “who wanted nothing to do with it” who would be the person to fight the war regardless of political ideology of conflict.

If you don’t want unnecessary conflict, then your beef is with Congress and the seat of the presidency. I don’t see how screwing over the people who “pay the price” makes sense. Saying they could shove the draft up their ass is cool but it doesn’t address the reality of not having able bodies to do military shit, regardless of righteousness. Again, you would put into policy no incentive to/for anyone to choose to do this….and around we go.

 

[wade2big]

Employees pay tax. Mil pays tax. State and fed where it applies while conus.

I just don’t see it the same way. As a federal employee you work like anywhere else. The benefits are roll overs for retirements and preferences that exist from military service, but other that, it’s a job as far as jobs go.

The issue was the GI bill… people like you would put into policy no benefit to person “who wanted nothing to do with it” who would be the person to fight the war regardless of political ideology of conflict.

If you don’t want unnecessary conflict, then your beef is with Congress and the seat of the presidency. I don’t see how screwing over the people who “pay the price” makes sense. Saying they could shove the draft up their ass is cool but it doesn’t address the reality of not having able bodies to do military shit, regardless of righteousness. Again, you would put into policy no incentive to/for anyone to choose to do this….and around we go.

The paychecks of government employees are made from taxes. They are not paying into the system. Anyone who takes a government check whether salary or welfare are not paying taxes. They are beneficiaries of the taxes stolen from the test of us.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

I beleive everyone here is missing the point.

its not about helping pay off “unpayable debts.”

Its about buying votes, pure and simple.

 

[Matches Malone]

The paychecks of government employees are made from taxes. They are not paying into the system. Anyone who takes a government check whether salary or welfare are not paying taxes. They are beneficiaries of the taxes stolen from the test of us.

If they are paying into the system too, then aren’t they paying at least a part of their own salary? Either way, paying taxes is putting it “into the system.” Mil and fed do indeed. Paying taxes is paying taxes man. It’s such a self inflated notion that your tax money spent is more important than a military members tax money…it’s the same tax.

Your whole argument premises on the idea that idea that you don’t like the government, and thus you don’t want to pay tax. I agree to a extent, but, I would like how you all fair with no military, no defense, and no agencies or institutions….especially with the amount of the world that would love to see the US fail completely.

There’s no simple answer for a complex problem of balance between government power and a uneducated and cowardice population.