• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Rifle Scopes 1-4 for my ar-15

Dantrom

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 30, 2009
922
25
northwest ohio
I want to get a 1-4 for my ar, thinking of getting the Vortex PST, but don't know if I should wait for the new SS?
I want something that is going to have a Large And Clear sight picture! I know only a select few may be able to chime in about the SS. But would like to here some opinions or other options!

Thanks all
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

Check out the Nightforce 1-4. I have one, and while it's a bit expensive, it's pretty sweet..
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

i like my millett dms-1 but ive not gotten to shoot the rifle its on yet. its bright, its clear, its affordable. i bought one used from here. zoom ring was stiff. called bushnell, sent it in. a week later i had a brand new one. i wish the turrets were target, but i think the 18 MOA donut/dot will work out fine once i get some trigger time
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

The vortex razor is a great scope. I know a guy here on the hide who has a killer deal on one if you are interested. I have handled many 1-4x optics and for the AR I have would have to say the ones I liked most were the Vortex Razor, S&B shortdot, Elcan 1x,4x and the trijicon 1-4x are all great. The millet is one of the best scopes for the value. If you don't have six hundred to spend get the millet if you have a grand to spend buy the trijicon or Vortex, if you have two grand to spend buy the elcan or S&B. JMHO
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

I have to say, the new Vortex 1-4X Viper is here in my hand... it's a nice scope, really good glass, decent reticle, with super positive click adjustments.

The more I look at it, the more i like it. I haven't seen the SWFA 1-4X, if its anything like the new SS it will be good, but the Vortex is damn nice.

NF Is also very good, but the Vortex is listed at 1/3 the cost so that is hard to beat.
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

Personally I'm waiting on the SWFA SS 1-4 HD. It is the only scope I know of that offers what I call "Red Dot to Mildot" functionality in one package. The Vortex PST 1-4 is not a FFP optic so you get the same reticule in 1X or 4X. It does have mil/mil or moa/moa reticule/adjustment options. It is not the same quality as the SWFA SS 1-4 HD. ( to be fair I'm basing my judgement on the Vortex line on another Viper I own a 6.5-20X44) Check it out here http://swfa.com/Vortex-1-4x24-Viper-PST-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P44569.aspx.
The Vortex Razor 1-4 HD is similar in quality to the SWFA SS 1-4 HD and is FFP but has 1/4 moa adjustments. For Vortex to match the SWFA SS 1-4 HD they would have to put the features of the Viper into the quality of the Razor.
Price is also a factor. Viper 1-4 = $499.00. Razor 1-4 HD = $1,199.00 and SWFA SS 1-4 HD is tentatively priced at $799.00.
I have a field report on the SWFA SS 1-4 HD on the Hide if you have not read it, take a look http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2233075#Post2233075

I'm not slamming Vortex, I own them, but SWFA out did everyone on this one.
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My Bad it is not a FFP, I was wrong... thanks. then again, in a 1-4X it is not necessary. </div></div>

Sorry Boss but I have to respectively disagree with you on this one. Actually the FFP principal may prove to be the answer to the search for a dual purpose optic. Forget about the mildots remaining constant at any magnification and think of FFP as a "switch" like the Elcan or IOR Pitbull. It can be used to "switch" the size of the reticule to perform two different functions. One function is "red dot" the other is is mildot with .2 mil adjustments and 10 mils per rotation. I agree that the Vortex Vipers are nice, I own two, (not PST), but you'll have to get one of the SWFA SS 1-4 HDs in hand to appreciate the difference.

At 1X illuminated


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

At 4X no illumination


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

Honestly,

I see no reason to have the horizontal and vertical lines and I don't like them... not in this optic.

I like the floating circles better... the concept is right, the final execution is wrong. Not a fan of those lines, they block too much.

I dig everything SWFA is doing with the Line, they are great scopes, I don't like that reticle one bit... not compared to other offerings. In the reticle war, Vortex is certainly kicking ass.

$300 is a big difference for some, and the Vortex Viper is nice, is it great, I don''t know I haven't used it enough. I know I haven't seen the SWFA yet, but can tell you , the reticle is a big minus for me compared to the Vortex.

 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

Thanks for all the hits guys, I agree with lowlight the ret does look very large. Deffinately leaning toward the vortex.

Just read an article in Shooting illustrated about the DPMS 3G1. The author used a prototype leupold CQBSS 1-8 probably way put of my price range but sounded pretty interesting also.
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

It is different, I look through it at the target rather than superimposing it on the target as with an Aimpoint. I tested it from 10 yards to 800 yards and I will be buying one.
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

I just got a bushnell elite 4200 1.25-4 and it has great glass IMO.

Since bushnell is closing the 4200 line the price has dropped at SWFA pretty significantly. My old man has a millet dms and my bushy is much better built and has better glass IMO.
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

The vortex and the SS look cool but I dont see a need for Mil/Mil big line reticle with target turrets in a 1-4x..?? Am I missing something? how accurate can you be with a 1-4x anyways?? I guess everyones got different purposes though..

I'm not a fan on BDC reticles in higher power scopes at ALL but I think in a 1-4x they are perfect.. Check out the Burris XTR or the Burris Tac30 LRS(I have an LRS on the way)
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

The Mil/mil combination at 4X works the same way it does at 10X. It gives you a means of estimating your range and adjusting for it. If you miss and saw the miss you measure how far you missed by using the mildot and adjust the number of mil to make your hit. Just more precision and flexability than "hold over reticules". I made "head" shots at 500 yards, near moa groups at 700 yards and hits on a 14" steel disk at 800 yards as mentioned in the review linked to above.
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

the NF 1-4x is a horrible scope for the money, or even half the money. Mine is mil/mil with zero stop, illuminated and I've owned it for 2 yrs. Currently sitting by itself in "timeout".
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

I'll take that junk 1-4 off your hands, I didn't think they made it with zero stops, mine is awesome, fine glass, perfect reticle FC-2, tough as nails, not to big or heavy, It'll be at home with ALL my other (junk) NF's
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

If you want a 1-4 wait for the PST, it looks very nice. It looks to me like it does everything you'd want a 1-4 to do and for only 500$, which puts it within reach of a lot of different buyers.

Not sure about the SS1-4 (PDD seems to like it). The reticle kind of bugs me as does the price, I thought it would be competitive with the PST.
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

was hoping someone would say that... pm inbound
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you want a 1-4 wait for the PST, it looks very nice. It looks to me like it does everything you'd want a 1-4 to do and for only 500$, which puts it within reach of a lot of different buyers.

Not sure about the SS1-4 (PDD seems to like it). The reticle kind of bugs me as does the price, I thought it would be competitive with the PST. </div></div>

The SWFA SS 1-4 HD is designed to compete at the level of the Vortex 1-4 Razor HD and NF scopes. I want to check out the Vortex Viper 1-4 PST but after using both models of the SWFA SS 1-4 HD on several rifles in all light conditions. I know I will get one. I fired just under 600 rounds from 10 yards to 800 yards, and the performance was higher than I expected.

I'm sure both scopes will have an impact on the SPR/DMR scope market. The are both designed to be dual purpose scopes but I see the FFP switching the size to be key to performance. The SS 1-4 HD is not dependant on illumination to function at 1X, the big lines draw your attention to the center just like an aperture rear sight. I'm not bashing the Vortex but the SS 1-4 HD is worth the price difference to me.
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Prairie Dog Dundee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The are both designed to be dual purpose scopes but I see the FFP switching the size to be key to performance. The SS 1-4 HD is not dependant on illumination to function at 1X, the big lines draw your attention to the center just like an aperture rear sight. I'm not bashing the Vortex but the SS 1-4 HD is worth the price difference to me. </div></div>

Yeah, I understand. The thing I'm wondering is how well the center dot in the PST looks at 1-2x. It looks like it is a 1min dot at 4X so if it stands out like an aimpoint at lower power to me it's perfect as I really like my aimpoint and vortex red dots. To have that kind of functionality (I'm hoping it works that way anyways) in a 500$ dollar scope sounds to me like a really good deal but we shall see.
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

I have the Burris XTR-14 on one of my AR15's. Bang for the buck, you can't go wrong with it. It also has the 5.56 BDC.

http://www.burrisoptics.com/xtrtactical1.html
http://www.burrisoptics.com/pdf/Ballistic%20556%20Gen2%20&%207.62%20Reticles.pdf

xtr1_05.jpg

xtrkit.jpg
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Prairie Dog Dundee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The are both designed to be dual purpose scopes but I see the FFP switching the size to be key to performance. The SS 1-4 HD is not dependant on illumination to function at 1X, the big lines draw your attention to the center just like an aperture rear sight. I'm not bashing the Vortex but the SS 1-4 HD is worth the price difference to me. </div></div>

Yeah, I understand. The thing I'm wondering is how well the center dot in the PST looks at 1-2x. It looks like it is a 1min dot at 4X so if it stands out like an aimpoint at lower power to me it's perfect as I really like my aimpoint and vortex red dots. To have that kind of functionality (I'm hoping it works that way anyways) in a 500$ dollar scope sounds to me like a really good deal but we shall see.

</div></div>

I understand. Hopefully some one who has seen the Vortex 1-4 PST can chime in regarding brightness. Keep in mind that both the Vortex and the SS HD, being scopes will not be parallax free like the Aimpoint. The Aimpoint will have the advantage when firing from odd positions where you may not get a good cheek weld. However I tested both the SS HD reticules at 25 yards and 50 yards (off hand), 100 yards (kneeling) and 150 yards (prone). Under 50 yards the scopes were identical in score to an Aimpoint. At 100 to 150 yards the scopes were more accurate. The Aimpoint was marginally faster. This was only one shooter so it is not a great test. It would be interesting to put the Vortex PST into the mix.
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

Trijicon Accupoint 1-4x with triangle reticle.

No batteries. Illumination in day and night.

The only scope I have seen that I might replace it with would be the SS 1-4x with that circle reticle.
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

Here is some quick and dirty on the fly images of the Vortex Reticle

reticle.jpg


And Lit
reticle2.jpg


Not mounted so they are upside down as they sat with the turrets facing down and crooked...
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

I would really like to shoot the Vortex PST 1-4, SWFA SS 1-4 HD and Vortex Razor 1-4 HD side by side. Vortex and SWFA SS are the two brands I think of first when I need a new scope because they both offer excellent value for the money.

Maybe it is because I have 60 year old eyes but I actually prefer the larger, bold reticule of the SWFA SS 1-4 HD. I also think it has the advantage if the battery dies. At 1X the SS attracted my eye to the center very quickly. Yet at 4X I was able to quarter a 4"X4" "head" and at 800 yards I could quarter a 14" disc with no problems.

[img

Uploaded with ImageShack.usimg]

I'll take the SWFA SS or the Vortex over Leupolds new $4,000 offering at 1X
[img

Uploaded with ImageShack.usimg]
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

I will be honest, from what I have seen I would love to have one of the new 1-8 Leupolds, but would not pay more that $1200-$1500 for it.

I think that SWAFA should disect it and when they offer a 1-8, hopefully within the next year, put out a scope that can compete with the Leupold on every level.
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LAR Dragoon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will be honest, from what I have seen I would love to have one of the new 1-8 Leupolds, but would not pay more that $1200-$1500 for it.</div></div>

Yeah, the price on those is hilarious. I saw another thread where some yahoo was saying "they'll only be 3k" rofl.

Merry Christmas!
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

I have used the Leupold 1-8X, again with the Horror Vision Reticle, as far as the scope, it's a leupold I actually like... it was very nice and the locking turrets I liked better than the S&B version.
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

I really liked the Vortex 1-4 they had a SHOT last year, don't know how much different it is now, but the one I saw was nice, and the reticle is very nice.

Hopefully after it's out for a minute it'll prove to be a nice scope, it sure is priced right.
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

I agree with Frank that I do not really see a need for an FFP 1-4x. I will say when 1-4x FFP has a reticle that you can pick up fast at 1x then it is not an issue.

The VorTex HD is a rock solid FFP 1-4x scope.
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/QQN-1xsj9j8"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/QQN-1xsj9j8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

I'm testing out the Leupold 1.1-8x FFP and I like how they run the FFP RET in it also. It's a little hard to describe. The RET has 3 TMR reticles in it so when the scope is at 1x you can see all 3 of them but at 8x you can only see the fist one and some of the second one. It works really well. Normally I'm not a fan of RET in FFP scopes under 10x but this one works well. We are also hoping to get a 1.1-8x with the H27 RET to play with also.

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/e0x80c1jT0o"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/e0x80c1jT0o" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

Mike @ CST
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

I was informed by the man who took the picture of the Leupold reticule that it was of a very early prototype. I think it only fair to mention it. It may be a ground breaking design but at 4K I'll wait.

The development going on in the low power magnification, dual function scopes is exciting. There are over 30 models on the market and growing. Competition brings advancements. If WWI is remembered for introducing the 1911A1 and WWII saw the introduction of the M1 Garand the War on Terror may be remembered for the evolution of optics.
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

Mike @ CSTACTICAL
You do an excellent job with your videos.
They are actually better than being able to see and handle the optic, if you did not have anyone to highlight the features.
GOOD JOB!
grin.gif
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dantrom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would also like to hear how the 1-4 Burris XTR stacks up as well!! </div></div>

Me too.
I guess no one has one?
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wjwill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have the Burris XTR-14 on one of my AR15's. Bang for the buck, you can't go wrong with it. It also has the 5.56 BDC.

http://www.burrisoptics.com/xtrtactical1.html
http://www.burrisoptics.com/pdf/Ballistic%20556%20Gen2%20&%207.62%20Reticles.pdf

xtr1_05.jpg

xtrkit.jpg
</div></div>

The less expensive Burris Tac 30 is geatting great review by some of the Top guys in the 3-gun world such as Benny Hill. Its onsale at Midway right now for $299
Ret:
ballistic_cqreticle_dia.jpg

midwayusa link


One of a few reviews on Brian Eno's forum

I have a Swarovski z6i 1-6 on my current rifle. My next build (much smaller budget build) is getting the Tac30.
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

I'm loving all the new low powered optics coming out, but why isn't the March 1-10 getting more attention?
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

I wonder if we can even get the vortex pst 1-4 since the other pst's are all back ordered!
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

I don't think enough people give the Leatherwood enough credit. It tracks, it has a zero stop, BDC reticle, and it is illuminated. It is by no means comparable to a Nightforce or US Optics or any high dollar scope, but I would put it up against the Vortex Viper and SS 1-4 any day.

ea86d51b.jpg


f805df0b.jpg


ae99f61c.jpg


ecd6d1d0.jpg


I have this one is an SPR-E mount, and it holds zero very well. You can't see the green illumination in the daytime which is a drawback, but it's not bad for the price...about $250.

I have yet to test the holdover values with my Noveske Recon, but plan to do so with Hornady Match/TAP ammo.

I can definitely say the 1x is not a true 1x. It is fast to acquire, but not as fast as a red dot or a Trijicon's 1x4. Persoanlly the Trijicon would reign supreme with me if it had a different reticle.
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dantrom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would consider a USO, they are just out of my price range. </div></div>

Wait for the PST. The IOR 1-4 is good too but for 500$ the PST will be hard to say no to.
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dantrom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would consider a USO, they are just out of my price range. </div></div>

Wait for the PST. The IOR 1-4 is good too but for 500$ the PST will be hard to say no to.</div></div>

Do you have any experience with the Burris XTR 1-4 to compare?
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dantrom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would consider a USO, they are just out of my price range. </div></div>

Wait for the PST. The IOR 1-4 is good too but for 500$ the PST will be hard to say no to. </div></div>

I don't understand why it's a good choice to go after vaporware that hasn't been field tested. 1 Guy has it in his hands. 1.

Look at the Trijicon Accupoint 1-4x.
 
Re: 1-4 for my ar-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dantrom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Do you have any experience with the Burris XTR 1-4 to compare? </div></div>

Not the 1-4 but if it has the reticle I think it does I'd pass. That's just me though, if you like that reticle and want something in that price range I'm sure you'll be happy with it.

Why wait? Why not wait? If it turns out to be good then it was worth it, if not then all the other options will still be on the table.

edit: yeah I have used the XTR but not the Tac30 1-4, I thought the XTR was neat but a bit overpriced. A friend of mine has one, I think he paid 900 for it in a mount with a red dot on top. Just seemed like a lot to me for what it was.