14.3 trillion debt--- America how do you pay that back---farrck i worry about paying a grand on the credit card. Police jobs will be cut/building roads and infrastructure---but will you keep giving millions to those countries of peace that are constantly waring
14.3 trillion debt
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Re: 14.3 trillion debt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">14.3 trillion debt</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">14.3 trillion debt</div></div>
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
We dont. Money exists as an Idea. As long as we have faith that this number and the paper associated with it are worth value, then we sail on smoothly.
Eventually it'll crash down, but in the mean time, live it up!
We dont. Money exists as an Idea. As long as we have faith that this number and the paper associated with it are worth value, then we sail on smoothly.
Eventually it'll crash down, but in the mean time, live it up!
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
Well if we stop giving out 52 billion a year and use that towards the debt we could pay it off in a decent amount of time.
Well if we stop giving out 52 billion a year and use that towards the debt we could pay it off in a decent amount of time.
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
Works out to $50,000 for each person in America, based on a population of 300 Million. Not per household, per person... regardless of age etc.
Works out to $50,000 for each person in America, based on a population of 300 Million. Not per household, per person... regardless of age etc.
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
Its very interesting and a little scary for all countries I am sure as your dollar losses value and ours rises for example against the US dollar our exports become way way less attractive .
Now in saying that I could have rejoiced in the fact I could buy loads of cheap gun stuff but the problem is I cant get it out of the US -- just cant win !
Oh High Binder you are way way to paranoid
Its very interesting and a little scary for all countries I am sure as your dollar losses value and ours rises for example against the US dollar our exports become way way less attractive .
Now in saying that I could have rejoiced in the fact I could buy loads of cheap gun stuff but the problem is I cant get it out of the US -- just cant win !
Oh High Binder you are way way to paranoid
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
$14,300,000,000,000
$1,430,000,000,000
$143,000,000,000
Its all in the zeros/decimal point placement. Slide the decimal 2 places to the left and things ar much more manageable.
Problem solved.
Any more questions?
$14,300,000,000,000
$1,430,000,000,000
$143,000,000,000
Its all in the zeros/decimal point placement. Slide the decimal 2 places to the left and things ar much more manageable.
Problem solved.
Any more questions?
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doug.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well if we stop giving out 52 billion a year and use that towards the debt we could pay it off in a decent amount of time. </div></div>
I agree with Doug. I could even get behind giving the same amount of foreign aid as the next highest donating country in the world. It's not even close.
Josh
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doug.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well if we stop giving out 52 billion a year and use that towards the debt we could pay it off in a decent amount of time. </div></div>
I agree with Doug. I could even get behind giving the same amount of foreign aid as the next highest donating country in the world. It's not even close.
Josh
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">14.3 trillion debt--- America how do you pay that back---farrck i worry about paying a grand on the credit card. Police jobs will be cut/building roads and infrastructure---but will you keep giving millions to those countries of peace that are constantly waring </div></div>
Actually, our unfunded liabilities (debt) is more like 115 trillion, if you include social security and medicare etc etc etc.
I'm curious how this appears to those from other nations? Lets proceed with CAUTION with this thread, as this could get political very quick.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">14.3 trillion debt--- America how do you pay that back---farrck i worry about paying a grand on the credit card. Police jobs will be cut/building roads and infrastructure---but will you keep giving millions to those countries of peace that are constantly waring </div></div>
Actually, our unfunded liabilities (debt) is more like 115 trillion, if you include social security and medicare etc etc etc.
I'm curious how this appears to those from other nations? Lets proceed with CAUTION with this thread, as this could get political very quick.
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
I think it's a number. There are other numbers as well.
Rather than freaking out over a perticular milepost on the road to indebtedness, let's take the time for a few observations.
It took us scores of years to get to this point, and anyone who tells you a few caucuses and a deal or two are going to produce any meaningful remedy is selling snake oil.
Deficit financing has been the financing method of choice for not just us, but for just about every other government as well, for probably centuries.
Just as much as folks tell us that inflation is a terrible thing, it is also the logical offshoot of deficit financing, and the underappreciated remedy to a lot of the pain associated with debt repayment.
I have Grandchildren whom I am not going to be able to watch and help as they labor to carry their inherited debt. I don't feel proud of the situation that my generation is leaving them, but by the same token, it was also my generation which shouldered a similar burden paying off WWII and the Marshall Plan.
Getting folks all lathered up at this stage sounds a lot like crying over spilt milk, and locking the door on a recently emptied barn. Essentially, all we're really saying is that we're still caught behind the curve. None of this is news, and anyone who tells you it is has a (perhaps) overly high degree of short sightedness, or maybe something more sinister in the back of their minds.
I'm not giving answers. If I had 'em, do you really think I'd be a retired middle class social security client? But I'm not gnawing my fingernails down to my elbows either.
A recession isn't a crisis of wealth, it's a crisis of confidence.
My wealth? Well, let's not go there; it's only capable of being dealt with sanely with a large helping of laughter.
My confidence? Same place it's always been.
I got nowhere to go, and no paddle that will get me there. As for governments, I think they were put on this Earth to keep things interesting; and by that yardstick, ours is about as good as any other.
Whadda you want anyway, governmental perfection? That was never, ever gonna happen. Ever. Fageddaboudit!
Greg
I think it's a number. There are other numbers as well.
Rather than freaking out over a perticular milepost on the road to indebtedness, let's take the time for a few observations.
It took us scores of years to get to this point, and anyone who tells you a few caucuses and a deal or two are going to produce any meaningful remedy is selling snake oil.
Deficit financing has been the financing method of choice for not just us, but for just about every other government as well, for probably centuries.
Just as much as folks tell us that inflation is a terrible thing, it is also the logical offshoot of deficit financing, and the underappreciated remedy to a lot of the pain associated with debt repayment.
I have Grandchildren whom I am not going to be able to watch and help as they labor to carry their inherited debt. I don't feel proud of the situation that my generation is leaving them, but by the same token, it was also my generation which shouldered a similar burden paying off WWII and the Marshall Plan.
Getting folks all lathered up at this stage sounds a lot like crying over spilt milk, and locking the door on a recently emptied barn. Essentially, all we're really saying is that we're still caught behind the curve. None of this is news, and anyone who tells you it is has a (perhaps) overly high degree of short sightedness, or maybe something more sinister in the back of their minds.
I'm not giving answers. If I had 'em, do you really think I'd be a retired middle class social security client? But I'm not gnawing my fingernails down to my elbows either.
A recession isn't a crisis of wealth, it's a crisis of confidence.
My wealth? Well, let's not go there; it's only capable of being dealt with sanely with a large helping of laughter.
My confidence? Same place it's always been.
I got nowhere to go, and no paddle that will get me there. As for governments, I think they were put on this Earth to keep things interesting; and by that yardstick, ours is about as good as any other.
Whadda you want anyway, governmental perfection? That was never, ever gonna happen. Ever. Fageddaboudit!
Greg
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
Don't care anymore, going to trade stocks, pay my 15% capital gains tax and hope to retire in a low tax area while the country goes to hell.....
What can you do?
Vote.
Don't care anymore, going to trade stocks, pay my 15% capital gains tax and hope to retire in a low tax area while the country goes to hell.....
What can you do?
Vote.
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Oh High Binder you are way way to* paranoid </div></div>
Paranoid? I don't think you caught my meaning.
I was actually trying to make light of the no-doubt limited life span of this thread due to the inherent political potential of the topic...
P.S.: too*
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Oh High Binder you are way way to* paranoid </div></div>
Paranoid? I don't think you caught my meaning.
I was actually trying to make light of the no-doubt limited life span of this thread due to the inherent political potential of the topic...
P.S.: too*
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Its all in the zeros/decimal point placement. Slide the decimal 2 places to the left and things ar much more manageable.
Problem solved.
Any more questions? </div></div>
Goldie 2012...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Its all in the zeros/decimal point placement. Slide the decimal 2 places to the left and things ar much more manageable.
Problem solved.
Any more questions? </div></div>
Goldie 2012...
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't care anymore, going to trade stocks, pay my 15% capital gains tax and hope to retire in a low tax area while the country goes to hell.....
What can you do?
Vote. </div></div>
I don't think voting even matters anymore.. There is a constitutional requirement that we cannot default so the debt limit will obviously be raised. I wonder what is really going on what with all the debt talks being at the forefront (smoke mirrors) I have to wonder what the other hand is doing in the background...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't care anymore, going to trade stocks, pay my 15% capital gains tax and hope to retire in a low tax area while the country goes to hell.....
What can you do?
Vote. </div></div>
I don't think voting even matters anymore.. There is a constitutional requirement that we cannot default so the debt limit will obviously be raised. I wonder what is really going on what with all the debt talks being at the forefront (smoke mirrors) I have to wonder what the other hand is doing in the background...
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doug.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well if we stop giving out 52 billion a year and use that towards the debt we could pay it off in a decent amount of time. </div></div>
Yep, 14.3 trillion divided by 52 billion, it will only take 275 years.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doug.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well if we stop giving out 52 billion a year and use that towards the debt we could pay it off in a decent amount of time. </div></div>
Yep, 14.3 trillion divided by 52 billion, it will only take 275 years.
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
Well throw in the money spent on shrimp research and we are making headway!
Or just funnel all the lobbyist/PAC/political consulting money into the unfunded obligations and we will have it done by lunchtime AND have shrimp races on ESPN!
Well throw in the money spent on shrimp research and we are making headway!
Or just funnel all the lobbyist/PAC/political consulting money into the unfunded obligations and we will have it done by lunchtime AND have shrimp races on ESPN!
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
I'm going to chime in here, because this is a topic that weighs heavy on my mind. Coming from a semi-business background I understand a lot of things that most people don't even think about.
1) Our entire monetary system is based on a 'fiat' form of currency. To sum it up .... the US dollar has no intrinsic value whatsoever. The US Government has already sold 1/2 of it's holdings in gold at Fort Knox to try and pay back other countries we are indebted to. So, basically, it's only worth something because our form of currency is the "US Dollar".
Sounds crazy doesn't it. But, unfortunately it's true. If Saudi Arabia, the European Union, and Russia stopped accepting US Currency for traded goods we would be in deep trouble overnight !
2) Saudi Arabia is looking to price oil in either the Euro or the new form of Chinese currency within the next 2 years. What will that do for the US? To sum it up, it would cause the US Dollar to devaluate to a staggering low. Basically, the world would stop using the US Dollar as a reserve currency. In other words ... we would be paying the Euro price of $8 US at the pump as opposed to $4 US at the pump. This would cause food shortages across the US, layoffs, and people working solely to eat. It would make the housing crash of 2008 look like a hiccup.
3) My last and final statement is somewhat extreme, but maybe it will allow you to see the depth of the trouble that we are in.
Our entire monetary system, lending, and savings institutions are based on one big pyramid scheme.
To say it a little easier for the layman to understand ....
If a bank receives a $10 deposit from someone then they can make a $100 loan based solely on speculation to another individual. How does that work? It's because there is no physical money that changes hands. It's only numbers on a computer screen that are tallied at the end of the day, and there is no physical currency to change hands!
These reasons are some of the ways that the US currency has been able to stand for as long as it has. If we run out ... we just print more!
I'm going to chime in here, because this is a topic that weighs heavy on my mind. Coming from a semi-business background I understand a lot of things that most people don't even think about.
1) Our entire monetary system is based on a 'fiat' form of currency. To sum it up .... the US dollar has no intrinsic value whatsoever. The US Government has already sold 1/2 of it's holdings in gold at Fort Knox to try and pay back other countries we are indebted to. So, basically, it's only worth something because our form of currency is the "US Dollar".
Sounds crazy doesn't it. But, unfortunately it's true. If Saudi Arabia, the European Union, and Russia stopped accepting US Currency for traded goods we would be in deep trouble overnight !
2) Saudi Arabia is looking to price oil in either the Euro or the new form of Chinese currency within the next 2 years. What will that do for the US? To sum it up, it would cause the US Dollar to devaluate to a staggering low. Basically, the world would stop using the US Dollar as a reserve currency. In other words ... we would be paying the Euro price of $8 US at the pump as opposed to $4 US at the pump. This would cause food shortages across the US, layoffs, and people working solely to eat. It would make the housing crash of 2008 look like a hiccup.
3) My last and final statement is somewhat extreme, but maybe it will allow you to see the depth of the trouble that we are in.
Our entire monetary system, lending, and savings institutions are based on one big pyramid scheme.
If a bank receives a $10 deposit from someone then they can make a $100 loan based solely on speculation to another individual. How does that work? It's because there is no physical money that changes hands. It's only numbers on a computer screen that are tallied at the end of the day, and there is no physical currency to change hands!
These reasons are some of the ways that the US currency has been able to stand for as long as it has. If we run out ... we just print more!
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
Yep civilized world is going down the drain with accelerating pace. Forget about economy or "raw" data, industries etc... What we've got is systemic failure of conscience, character and plain old honesty. People in general are fubared, too much of everything and too little decency when growing up made a huge amounts of greedy bastards willing to screw their family over for peanuts.
You want protection get a clue, read, learn, buy farmland and learn to grow your own food buy ammo and guns (that should come naturally
) and if you got any fiat (not Fiat
) left buy gold and stash it for your children (if you'll survive...).
Yep civilized world is going down the drain with accelerating pace. Forget about economy or "raw" data, industries etc... What we've got is systemic failure of conscience, character and plain old honesty. People in general are fubared, too much of everything and too little decency when growing up made a huge amounts of greedy bastards willing to screw their family over for peanuts.
You want protection get a clue, read, learn, buy farmland and learn to grow your own food buy ammo and guns (that should come naturally
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
Wellington - New Zealand's government debt rose to 71.6 billion New Zealand dollars (58.4 billion US dollars), or <span style="color: #FF0000">more than one-third of the country's gross domestic product</span>, Treasury officials said Tuesday.
The Treasury said gross debt by the end of April was 19.6 billion New Zealand dollars higher than at the same time last year and 4.2 per cent higher than forecast, fuelled by the near-record high Kiwi dollar and demand for government bonds.
Government net debt, which is the difference between gross debt and government financial assets, was stable at 41 billion New Zealand dollars, or 21 per cent of the 194-billion-New Zealand-dollar economy.
The government has been criticized for borrowing more than necessary, but Finance Minister Bill English defended the move, saying he was taking advantage of low interest rates that would lead to reduced borrowing in the future.
New Zealand has some issues too as it compares to the GDP of the country's economy.
Wellington - New Zealand's government debt rose to 71.6 billion New Zealand dollars (58.4 billion US dollars), or <span style="color: #FF0000">more than one-third of the country's gross domestic product</span>, Treasury officials said Tuesday.
The Treasury said gross debt by the end of April was 19.6 billion New Zealand dollars higher than at the same time last year and 4.2 per cent higher than forecast, fuelled by the near-record high Kiwi dollar and demand for government bonds.
Government net debt, which is the difference between gross debt and government financial assets, was stable at 41 billion New Zealand dollars, or 21 per cent of the 194-billion-New Zealand-dollar economy.
The government has been criticized for borrowing more than necessary, but Finance Minister Bill English defended the move, saying he was taking advantage of low interest rates that would lead to reduced borrowing in the future.
New Zealand has some issues too as it compares to the GDP of the country's economy.
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
Rooster Shooter:
What you say is correct, but one saving grace is that the US is not the only country in this bad shape. The value of the dollar may be propped up a little by the fact that the euro is an even bigger piece of crap.
As for your point three, that is where he are at right now. A large amount of debt is represented by a small amount of real money, so taking a loss on a mortgage blows a huge hole in the banks balance sheet. And there are a lot of bad mortgages. All that debt going "pop" is actually deflationary. The government is trying to make up for it by running up its credit cards, but anyone who has ever had a credit card knows how that ends.
Rooster Shooter:
What you say is correct, but one saving grace is that the US is not the only country in this bad shape. The value of the dollar may be propped up a little by the fact that the euro is an even bigger piece of crap.
As for your point three, that is where he are at right now. A large amount of debt is represented by a small amount of real money, so taking a loss on a mortgage blows a huge hole in the banks balance sheet. And there are a lot of bad mortgages. All that debt going "pop" is actually deflationary. The government is trying to make up for it by running up its credit cards, but anyone who has ever had a credit card knows how that ends.
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm going to chime in here, because this is a topic that weighs heavy on my mind. Coming from a semi-business background I understand a lot of things that most people don't even think about.
<span style="font-size: 11pt"> <span style="color: #FFFF66">1) Our entire monetary system is based on a 'fiat' form of currency. To sum it up .... the US dollar has no intrinsic value whatsoever. The US Government has already sold 1/2 of it's holdings in gold at Fort Knox to try and pay back other countries we are indebted to. So, basically, it's only worth something because our form of currency is the "US Dollar". </span> </span>
Sounds crazy doesn't it. But, unfortunately it's true. If Saudi Arabia, the European Union, and Russia stopped accepting US Currency for traded goods we would be in deep trouble overnight !
2) Saudi Arabia is looking to price oil in either the Euro or the new form of Chinese currency within the next 2 years. What will that do for the US? To sum it up, it would cause the US Dollar to devaluate to a staggering low. Basically, the world would stop using the US Dollar as a reserve currency. In other words ... we would be paying the Euro price of $8 US at the pump as opposed to $4 US at the pump. This would cause food shortages across the US, layoffs, and people working solely to eat. It would make the housing crash of 2008 look like a hiccup.
3) My last and final statement is somewhat extreme, but maybe it will allow you to see the depth of the trouble that we are in.
Our entire monetary system, lending, and savings institutions are based on one big pyramid scheme.
To say it a little easier for the layman to understand ....
If a bank receives a $10 deposit from someone then they can make a $100 loan based solely on speculation to another individual. How does that work? It's because there is no physical money that changes hands. It's only numbers on a computer screen that are tallied at the end of the day, and there is no physical currency to change hands!
These reasons are some of the ways that the US currency has been able to stand for as long as it has. If we run out ... we just print more! </div></div>
What the US does have to back it up is 15? Carrier Groups and they dont need no stinkin' oil. they run on uranium. Thats the new currency of record, at least in international politics. Gold is only for barter amongst business'.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm going to chime in here, because this is a topic that weighs heavy on my mind. Coming from a semi-business background I understand a lot of things that most people don't even think about.
<span style="font-size: 11pt"> <span style="color: #FFFF66">1) Our entire monetary system is based on a 'fiat' form of currency. To sum it up .... the US dollar has no intrinsic value whatsoever. The US Government has already sold 1/2 of it's holdings in gold at Fort Knox to try and pay back other countries we are indebted to. So, basically, it's only worth something because our form of currency is the "US Dollar". </span> </span>
Sounds crazy doesn't it. But, unfortunately it's true. If Saudi Arabia, the European Union, and Russia stopped accepting US Currency for traded goods we would be in deep trouble overnight !
2) Saudi Arabia is looking to price oil in either the Euro or the new form of Chinese currency within the next 2 years. What will that do for the US? To sum it up, it would cause the US Dollar to devaluate to a staggering low. Basically, the world would stop using the US Dollar as a reserve currency. In other words ... we would be paying the Euro price of $8 US at the pump as opposed to $4 US at the pump. This would cause food shortages across the US, layoffs, and people working solely to eat. It would make the housing crash of 2008 look like a hiccup.
3) My last and final statement is somewhat extreme, but maybe it will allow you to see the depth of the trouble that we are in.
Our entire monetary system, lending, and savings institutions are based on one big pyramid scheme.
If a bank receives a $10 deposit from someone then they can make a $100 loan based solely on speculation to another individual. How does that work? It's because there is no physical money that changes hands. It's only numbers on a computer screen that are tallied at the end of the day, and there is no physical currency to change hands!
These reasons are some of the ways that the US currency has been able to stand for as long as it has. If we run out ... we just print more! </div></div>
What the US does have to back it up is 15? Carrier Groups and they dont need no stinkin' oil. they run on uranium. Thats the new currency of record, at least in international politics. Gold is only for barter amongst business'.
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
What are we going to do about the 14.3 trillion debt? Default! Only question is, "When?"
BCJolly
What are we going to do about the 14.3 trillion debt? Default! Only question is, "When?"
BCJolly
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm going to chime in here, because this is a topic that weighs heavy on my mind. Coming from a semi-business background I understand a lot of things that most people don't even think about.
<span style="font-size: 11pt"> <span style="color: #FFFF66">1) Our entire monetary system is based on a 'fiat' form of currency. To sum it up .... the US dollar has no intrinsic value whatsoever. The US Government has already sold 1/2 of it's holdings in gold at Fort Knox to try and pay back other countries we are indebted to. So, basically, it's only worth something because our form of currency is the "US Dollar". </span> </span>
Sounds crazy doesn't it. But, unfortunately it's true. If Saudi Arabia, the European Union, and Russia stopped accepting US Currency for traded goods we would be in deep trouble overnight !
2) Saudi Arabia is looking to price oil in either the Euro or the new form of Chinese currency within the next 2 years. What will that do for the US? To sum it up, it would cause the US Dollar to devaluate to a staggering low. Basically, the world would stop using the US Dollar as a reserve currency. In other words ... we would be paying the Euro price of $8 US at the pump as opposed to $4 US at the pump. This would cause food shortages across the US, layoffs, and people working solely to eat. It would make the housing crash of 2008 look like a hiccup.
3) My last and final statement is somewhat extreme, but maybe it will allow you to see the depth of the trouble that we are in.
Our entire monetary system, lending, and savings institutions are based on one big pyramid scheme.
To say it a little easier for the layman to understand ....
If a bank receives a $10 deposit from someone then they can make a $100 loan based solely on speculation to another individual. How does that work? It's because there is no physical money that changes hands. It's only numbers on a computer screen that are tallied at the end of the day, and there is no physical currency to change hands!
These reasons are some of the ways that the US currency has been able to stand for as long as it has. If we run out ... we just print more! </div></div>
What the US does have to back it up is 15? Carrier Groups and they dont need no stinkin' oil. they run on uranium. Thats the new currency of record, at least in international politics. Gold is only for barter amongst business'. </div></div>
Yes, but do you think the service men and women who operate those carrier groups will stay on board once the government falls, and they aren't getting paid? A recent survey showed that the only reason that 60% of US Armed Forces men and women re-up is for job stability, and so they can pay there bills since there aren't any civilian jobs out there right now! What happens when the paychecks stop coming in? Do you think they will stay on a floating barge and fight, or will they go home to defend their families?
I think we all know the answer to that. Back in April or May US base commanders across the globe were doing everything they could to thwart a mass exodus from their posts. Our fighting men and women were threatening to leave their posts if they didn't get paid. Luckily, Congress got it's act together, and enabled the US Armed Forces to get paid regardless of the current 'civilian' state of affairs.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm going to chime in here, because this is a topic that weighs heavy on my mind. Coming from a semi-business background I understand a lot of things that most people don't even think about.
<span style="font-size: 11pt"> <span style="color: #FFFF66">1) Our entire monetary system is based on a 'fiat' form of currency. To sum it up .... the US dollar has no intrinsic value whatsoever. The US Government has already sold 1/2 of it's holdings in gold at Fort Knox to try and pay back other countries we are indebted to. So, basically, it's only worth something because our form of currency is the "US Dollar". </span> </span>
Sounds crazy doesn't it. But, unfortunately it's true. If Saudi Arabia, the European Union, and Russia stopped accepting US Currency for traded goods we would be in deep trouble overnight !
2) Saudi Arabia is looking to price oil in either the Euro or the new form of Chinese currency within the next 2 years. What will that do for the US? To sum it up, it would cause the US Dollar to devaluate to a staggering low. Basically, the world would stop using the US Dollar as a reserve currency. In other words ... we would be paying the Euro price of $8 US at the pump as opposed to $4 US at the pump. This would cause food shortages across the US, layoffs, and people working solely to eat. It would make the housing crash of 2008 look like a hiccup.
3) My last and final statement is somewhat extreme, but maybe it will allow you to see the depth of the trouble that we are in.
Our entire monetary system, lending, and savings institutions are based on one big pyramid scheme.
If a bank receives a $10 deposit from someone then they can make a $100 loan based solely on speculation to another individual. How does that work? It's because there is no physical money that changes hands. It's only numbers on a computer screen that are tallied at the end of the day, and there is no physical currency to change hands!
These reasons are some of the ways that the US currency has been able to stand for as long as it has. If we run out ... we just print more! </div></div>
What the US does have to back it up is 15? Carrier Groups and they dont need no stinkin' oil. they run on uranium. Thats the new currency of record, at least in international politics. Gold is only for barter amongst business'. </div></div>
Yes, but do you think the service men and women who operate those carrier groups will stay on board once the government falls, and they aren't getting paid? A recent survey showed that the only reason that 60% of US Armed Forces men and women re-up is for job stability, and so they can pay there bills since there aren't any civilian jobs out there right now! What happens when the paychecks stop coming in? Do you think they will stay on a floating barge and fight, or will they go home to defend their families?
I think we all know the answer to that. Back in April or May US base commanders across the globe were doing everything they could to thwart a mass exodus from their posts. Our fighting men and women were threatening to leave their posts if they didn't get paid. Luckily, Congress got it's act together, and enabled the US Armed Forces to get paid regardless of the current 'civilian' state of affairs.
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Our fighting men and women were threatening to leave their posts if they didn't get paid.</div></div>
I agree with most of what you posted, but this gets me. As one of those "fighting men" I can tell you that 99% of the military was attempting to get their finances in order in case the .gov did not pay us. Financial institutions were going to help those that didn't have savings to pay all their bills. There was no mutiny brewing. Our "fighting men and women" are better than that. Now, if 1-2 months turns into 6, then you might see some issues. I don't think it will ever come to that.
Again, we're better than that.
Period.
Josh
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Our fighting men and women were threatening to leave their posts if they didn't get paid.</div></div>
I agree with most of what you posted, but this gets me. As one of those "fighting men" I can tell you that 99% of the military was attempting to get their finances in order in case the .gov did not pay us. Financial institutions were going to help those that didn't have savings to pay all their bills. There was no mutiny brewing. Our "fighting men and women" are better than that. Now, if 1-2 months turns into 6, then you might see some issues. I don't think it will ever come to that.
Again, we're better than that.
Period.
Josh
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
Beat me to it! We wouldn't be happy but we would still do the job we swore to do. I guess people only make statements like that because of the media.. they suck.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MinorDamage</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Our fighting men and women were threatening to leave their posts if they didn't get paid.</div></div>
I agree with most of what you posted, but this gets me. As one of those "fighting men" I can tell you that 99% of the military was attempting to get their finances in order in case the .gov did not pay us. Financial institutions were going to help those that didn't have savings to pay all their bills. There was no mutiny brewing. Our "fighting men and women" are better than that. Now, if 1-2 months turns into 6, then you might see some issues. I don't think it will ever come to that.
Again, we're better than that.
Period.
Josh </div></div>
Beat me to it! We wouldn't be happy but we would still do the job we swore to do. I guess people only make statements like that because of the media.. they suck.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MinorDamage</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Our fighting men and women were threatening to leave their posts if they didn't get paid.</div></div>
I agree with most of what you posted, but this gets me. As one of those "fighting men" I can tell you that 99% of the military was attempting to get their finances in order in case the .gov did not pay us. Financial institutions were going to help those that didn't have savings to pay all their bills. There was no mutiny brewing. Our "fighting men and women" are better than that. Now, if 1-2 months turns into 6, then you might see some issues. I don't think it will ever come to that.
Again, we're better than that.
Period.
Josh </div></div>
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doug.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Beat me to it! We wouldn't be happy but we would still do the job we swore to do. I guess people only make statements like that because of the media.. they suck.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MinorDamage</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Our fighting men and women were threatening to leave their posts if they didn't get paid.</div></div>
I agree with most of what you posted, but this gets me. As one of those "fighting men" I can tell you that 99% of the military was attempting to get their finances in order in case the .gov did not pay us. Financial institutions were going to help those that didn't have savings to pay all their bills. There was no mutiny brewing. Our "fighting men and women" are better than that. Now, if 1-2 months turns into 6, then you might see some issues. I don't think it will ever come to that.
Again, we're better than that.
Period.
Josh </div></div> </div></div>
Sorry, but I got my information directly from a member of HQ at Ft. Campbell where I know several individuals who are based there.
The military does a really good job of controlling what goes on and for a good reason. However, it really went down a different way than what the enlisted and non-coms were being told.
Let's just say it got Washington's attention.
The impact of the problem went as far as present day operations in Afghanistan. Several units that were scheduled to go on missions and patrols were preemptively refusing because they didn't want to go out on patrol while their families were at home with the possibility of lost or non-receipt of benefits.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doug.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Beat me to it! We wouldn't be happy but we would still do the job we swore to do. I guess people only make statements like that because of the media.. they suck.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MinorDamage</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Our fighting men and women were threatening to leave their posts if they didn't get paid.</div></div>
I agree with most of what you posted, but this gets me. As one of those "fighting men" I can tell you that 99% of the military was attempting to get their finances in order in case the .gov did not pay us. Financial institutions were going to help those that didn't have savings to pay all their bills. There was no mutiny brewing. Our "fighting men and women" are better than that. Now, if 1-2 months turns into 6, then you might see some issues. I don't think it will ever come to that.
Again, we're better than that.
Period.
Josh </div></div> </div></div>
Sorry, but I got my information directly from a member of HQ at Ft. Campbell where I know several individuals who are based there.
The military does a really good job of controlling what goes on and for a good reason. However, it really went down a different way than what the enlisted and non-coms were being told.
Let's just say it got Washington's attention.
The impact of the problem went as far as present day operations in Afghanistan. Several units that were scheduled to go on missions and patrols were preemptively refusing because they didn't want to go out on patrol while their families were at home with the possibility of lost or non-receipt of benefits.
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I think we all know the answer to that. Back in April or May US base commanders across the globe were doing everything they could to thwart a mass exodus from their posts. Our fighting men and women were threatening to leave their posts if they didn't get paid. Luckily, Congress got it's act together, and enabled the US Armed Forces to get paid regardless of the current 'civilian' state of affairs. </div></div>
That is very interesting -what if the millatary didnt pay the troops and they left in protest would they be courtmartialed or would it be seen that the Governement had broken their contract with their men and had no power over them ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I think we all know the answer to that. Back in April or May US base commanders across the globe were doing everything they could to thwart a mass exodus from their posts. Our fighting men and women were threatening to leave their posts if they didn't get paid. Luckily, Congress got it's act together, and enabled the US Armed Forces to get paid regardless of the current 'civilian' state of affairs. </div></div>
That is very interesting -what if the millatary didnt pay the troops and they left in protest would they be courtmartialed or would it be seen that the Governement had broken their contract with their men and had no power over them ?
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I think we all know the answer to that. Back in April or May US base commanders across the globe were doing everything they could to thwart a mass exodus from their posts. Our fighting men and women were threatening to leave their posts if they didn't get paid. Luckily, Congress got it's act together, and enabled the US Armed Forces to get paid regardless of the current 'civilian' state of affairs. </div></div>
That is very interesting -what if the millatary didnt pay the troops and they left in protest would they be courtmartialed or would it be seen that the Governement had broken their contract with their men and had no power over them ? </div></div>
I actually had a long winded talk with our SNCO's in our shop when it came to dealing with the whole "broken contract thing"
Technically, we never signed the dotted line for "pay", evidently pay is a bonus thats tacked on. The military could, in theory, make us work without payment. Which is kinda fucked up if you think about it.
When that financial thing happened, we had a betting pool going on how long until people started to leave in mass. I gave it a solid 3 months, and people would start leaving.
6 months, good fucking luck...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I think we all know the answer to that. Back in April or May US base commanders across the globe were doing everything they could to thwart a mass exodus from their posts. Our fighting men and women were threatening to leave their posts if they didn't get paid. Luckily, Congress got it's act together, and enabled the US Armed Forces to get paid regardless of the current 'civilian' state of affairs. </div></div>
That is very interesting -what if the millatary didnt pay the troops and they left in protest would they be courtmartialed or would it be seen that the Governement had broken their contract with their men and had no power over them ? </div></div>
I actually had a long winded talk with our SNCO's in our shop when it came to dealing with the whole "broken contract thing"
Technically, we never signed the dotted line for "pay", evidently pay is a bonus thats tacked on. The military could, in theory, make us work without payment. Which is kinda fucked up if you think about it.
When that financial thing happened, we had a betting pool going on how long until people started to leave in mass. I gave it a solid 3 months, and people would start leaving.
6 months, good fucking luck...
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alderleet</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I think we all know the answer to that. Back in April or May US base commanders across the globe were doing everything they could to thwart a mass exodus from their posts. Our fighting men and women were threatening to leave their posts if they didn't get paid. Luckily, Congress got it's act together, and enabled the US Armed Forces to get paid regardless of the current 'civilian' state of affairs. </div></div>
That is very interesting -what if the millatary didnt pay the troops and they left in protest would they be courtmartialed or would it be seen that the Governement had broken their contract with their men and had no power over them ? </div></div>
I actually had a long winded talk with our SNCO's in our shop when it came to dealing with the whole "broken contract thing"
Technically, we never signed the dotted line for "pay", evidently pay is a bonus thats tacked on. The military could, in theory, make us work without payment. Which is kinda fucked up if you think about it.
When that financial thing happened, we had a betting pool going on how long until people started to leave in mass. I gave it a solid 3 months, and people would start leaving.
6 months, good fucking luck... </div></div>
Yes, but in your defense, it wouldn't take the lawyers long to figure out that the contract was null and void once they stopped paying. After all ... when you went to MEPS didn't you sign a form stating your rank and rate of pay? It's all in the same packet of papers that you have to sign your name to. Not everyone reads the forms after the first 5 or so, but I read every one!
After all ... that would constitute a militia, and would automatically default back to state law of original residence, or the state at which you went to MEPS.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alderleet</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I think we all know the answer to that. Back in April or May US base commanders across the globe were doing everything they could to thwart a mass exodus from their posts. Our fighting men and women were threatening to leave their posts if they didn't get paid. Luckily, Congress got it's act together, and enabled the US Armed Forces to get paid regardless of the current 'civilian' state of affairs. </div></div>
That is very interesting -what if the millatary didnt pay the troops and they left in protest would they be courtmartialed or would it be seen that the Governement had broken their contract with their men and had no power over them ? </div></div>
I actually had a long winded talk with our SNCO's in our shop when it came to dealing with the whole "broken contract thing"
Technically, we never signed the dotted line for "pay", evidently pay is a bonus thats tacked on. The military could, in theory, make us work without payment. Which is kinda fucked up if you think about it.
When that financial thing happened, we had a betting pool going on how long until people started to leave in mass. I gave it a solid 3 months, and people would start leaving.
6 months, good fucking luck... </div></div>
Yes, but in your defense, it wouldn't take the lawyers long to figure out that the contract was null and void once they stopped paying. After all ... when you went to MEPS didn't you sign a form stating your rank and rate of pay? It's all in the same packet of papers that you have to sign your name to. Not everyone reads the forms after the first 5 or so, but I read every one!
After all ... that would constitute a militia, and would automatically default back to state law of original residence, or the state at which you went to MEPS.
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
This thread reminds me to thank Gunfighter (or was it Mo_Zam?) for the book recommendation, The Creature from Jekyll Island by G. Edward Griffin. Great book. Couldn't put it down. Thanks for recommending it a few weeks back.
This thread reminds me to thank Gunfighter (or was it Mo_Zam?) for the book recommendation, The Creature from Jekyll Island by G. Edward Griffin. Great book. Couldn't put it down. Thanks for recommending it a few weeks back.
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Sorry, but I got my information directly from a member of HQ at Ft. Campbell where I know several individuals who are based there.
<span style="color: #FF0000">I have found that the people that work at the HQ are the most out of touch with boots on the ground and sailors at sea.</span>
The military does a really good job of controlling what goes on and for a good reason. However, it really went down a different way than what the enlisted and non-coms were being told.
<span style="color: #FF0000">We didn't hide anything from our enlisted. The information I got and the rest of the O's got went down to the masses without any sugar coating. Do you think we are going to make it sound better just so they don't worry as much? I would much rather they started chatting with their families and landlords/lenders/etc to work out a plan</span>
Let's just say it got Washington's attention.
<span style="color: #FF0000">Let's be totally honest and admit that this was not even in the top 10 reasons why a compromise was passed. Period</span>
The impact of the problem went as far as present day operations in Afghanistan. Several units that were scheduled to go on missions and patrols were preemptively refusing because they didn't want to go out on patrol while their families were at home with the possibility of lost or non-receipt of benefits.
<span style="color: #FF0000">Again, being pissed about benefits and not doing your job are totally different. Please refer to response #1 about the HQ having little idea about the morale of boots on the ground. It's sad, but it's true. It is one more reason why I have no desire to make it high enough that I have to sit behind a desk, away from troops, romancing lawmakers.
If it had happened you would have seen the men and women of the armed forces continue to fight...at least for about 3 months as stated above.</span>
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Sorry, but I got my information directly from a member of HQ at Ft. Campbell where I know several individuals who are based there.
<span style="color: #FF0000">I have found that the people that work at the HQ are the most out of touch with boots on the ground and sailors at sea.</span>
The military does a really good job of controlling what goes on and for a good reason. However, it really went down a different way than what the enlisted and non-coms were being told.
<span style="color: #FF0000">We didn't hide anything from our enlisted. The information I got and the rest of the O's got went down to the masses without any sugar coating. Do you think we are going to make it sound better just so they don't worry as much? I would much rather they started chatting with their families and landlords/lenders/etc to work out a plan</span>
Let's just say it got Washington's attention.
<span style="color: #FF0000">Let's be totally honest and admit that this was not even in the top 10 reasons why a compromise was passed. Period</span>
The impact of the problem went as far as present day operations in Afghanistan. Several units that were scheduled to go on missions and patrols were preemptively refusing because they didn't want to go out on patrol while their families were at home with the possibility of lost or non-receipt of benefits.
<span style="color: #FF0000">Again, being pissed about benefits and not doing your job are totally different. Please refer to response #1 about the HQ having little idea about the morale of boots on the ground. It's sad, but it's true. It is one more reason why I have no desire to make it high enough that I have to sit behind a desk, away from troops, romancing lawmakers.
If it had happened you would have seen the men and women of the armed forces continue to fight...at least for about 3 months as stated above.</span>
</div></div>
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Saw the price of gold break $1600 yesterday.
</div></div>
I remember when it was $200 an ounce.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Saw the price of gold break $1600 yesterday.
</div></div>
I remember when it was $200 an ounce.
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">14.3 trillion debt--- America how do you pay that back---farrck i worry about paying a grand on the credit card. Police jobs will be cut/building roads and infrastructure---but will you keep giving millions to those countries of peace that are constantly waring</div></div>
Yeah it sucks, but keep in mind USA's GDP. Greece is in such a bind because their debt is a much higher portion of their GDP.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">14.3 trillion debt--- America how do you pay that back---farrck i worry about paying a grand on the credit card. Police jobs will be cut/building roads and infrastructure---but will you keep giving millions to those countries of peace that are constantly waring</div></div>
Yeah it sucks, but keep in mind USA's GDP. Greece is in such a bind because their debt is a much higher portion of their GDP.
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
Everybody is in trouble. If you borrow money at a rate which is higher that the rate of making money it's only matter of time before you go bust. It's the same for persons as is for govs. Thieving bastards who run things just cant help themselves, they've been caught with hands in a cookie jar many times and they just keep doing it and the stick to slap them with has been long gone.
With so many megalomaniacs, kleptomaniacs and plain old psychos in power there is no where but down.
As for soldiers i think many will have a hard reality check of whats important in mans life is it an oath to something long gone or well being of ones offsprings/family. Here in EU the major sentiment is that fat lady is not just singing but also shouting from the top of her lungs...
Everybody is in trouble. If you borrow money at a rate which is higher that the rate of making money it's only matter of time before you go bust. It's the same for persons as is for govs. Thieving bastards who run things just cant help themselves, they've been caught with hands in a cookie jar many times and they just keep doing it and the stick to slap them with has been long gone.
With so many megalomaniacs, kleptomaniacs and plain old psychos in power there is no where but down.
As for soldiers i think many will have a hard reality check of whats important in mans life is it an oath to something long gone or well being of ones offsprings/family. Here in EU the major sentiment is that fat lady is not just singing but also shouting from the top of her lungs...
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
There are so many ways to cut money but people like the easy way out and just like to put HUGE cuts in one place then they realize 10 years later that it was a mistake and cut something elsethe same way... its a stupid cycle.
I dont think there is a magic pill to fix this. There are a lot of cuts that can be made out there or even just ways to improve on the stuff we have already... but there isn't anyone out there that wants to do it because they won't be re-elected.
There are so many ways to cut money but people like the easy way out and just like to put HUGE cuts in one place then they realize 10 years later that it was a mistake and cut something elsethe same way... its a stupid cycle.
I dont think there is a magic pill to fix this. There are a lot of cuts that can be made out there or even just ways to improve on the stuff we have already... but there isn't anyone out there that wants to do it because they won't be re-elected.
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">14.3 trillion debt--- America how do you pay that back---farrck i worry about paying a grand on the credit card. Police jobs will be cut/building roads and infrastructure---but will you keep giving millions to those countries of peace that are constantly waring </div></div> We don't give millions, we give billions
here is some interesting info:
http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/history/history.htm
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt.htm
The lowest our debt has ever been was $33,733.05 in 1835
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">14.3 trillion debt--- America how do you pay that back---farrck i worry about paying a grand on the credit card. Police jobs will be cut/building roads and infrastructure---but will you keep giving millions to those countries of peace that are constantly waring </div></div> We don't give millions, we give billions
here is some interesting info:
http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/history/history.htm
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt.htm
The lowest our debt has ever been was $33,733.05 in 1835
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Saw the price of gold break $1600 yesterday.
</div></div>
I remember when it was $200 an ounce.
</div></div>
Glad I started buying inat $950.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Saw the price of gold break $1600 yesterday.
</div></div>
I remember when it was $200 an ounce.
Glad I started buying inat $950.
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
I am trying like a bastich to maintain my lifestyle and financial activity in as much as possible a similar manner as I've been all along. Doing otherwise would be to join in the aberrant behavior most folks have been performing, and in so doing, have been feeding this crisis of confidence that's at the core of all of this. It's my opinion that if I'm not part of the solution, I'm part of the problem; and I think this is the most likely method at my disposal that will contribute, albeit incrementally, to resolving what's happening around us all.
I have no gold, and would be hard pressed to figure out how to make use of it should the local economy go to the basis of barter. I can't eat it, or put it to any practical craft, and if currency "goes Dodo", I really don't see how folks are gonna want gold in its place. Like currency, gold has no intrinsic value; only an arbitrary one based on confidence.
I see it as "fool's gold".
IMHO, gold only has value within a scenario where there are markets for it, and markets are an attribute of a functioning economy. It would seem to me to be more a form of bait for scavengers, who have some mistaken notion that it might have a value someday. I'd actually rather just hand mine over and let them carry the burden of protecting a useless, heavy commodity.
I would fight for whatever else I possess. But gold? Naah.
Besides, based on the above; what little gold I may actually possess wouldn't amount to anything all that attractive anyway.
Come an Apocalypse, the wealthy man cannot buy his way into heaven. While life and breath remain; food, clothing, and shelter will be a more realistic medium of exchange and survival.
Greg
I am trying like a bastich to maintain my lifestyle and financial activity in as much as possible a similar manner as I've been all along. Doing otherwise would be to join in the aberrant behavior most folks have been performing, and in so doing, have been feeding this crisis of confidence that's at the core of all of this. It's my opinion that if I'm not part of the solution, I'm part of the problem; and I think this is the most likely method at my disposal that will contribute, albeit incrementally, to resolving what's happening around us all.
I have no gold, and would be hard pressed to figure out how to make use of it should the local economy go to the basis of barter. I can't eat it, or put it to any practical craft, and if currency "goes Dodo", I really don't see how folks are gonna want gold in its place. Like currency, gold has no intrinsic value; only an arbitrary one based on confidence.
I see it as "fool's gold".
IMHO, gold only has value within a scenario where there are markets for it, and markets are an attribute of a functioning economy. It would seem to me to be more a form of bait for scavengers, who have some mistaken notion that it might have a value someday. I'd actually rather just hand mine over and let them carry the burden of protecting a useless, heavy commodity.
I would fight for whatever else I possess. But gold? Naah.
Besides, based on the above; what little gold I may actually possess wouldn't amount to anything all that attractive anyway.
Come an Apocalypse, the wealthy man cannot buy his way into heaven. While life and breath remain; food, clothing, and shelter will be a more realistic medium of exchange and survival.
Greg
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
note to self: wait for gunman_7 to hit greg's place then debo his ass when he exfils.
note to self: wait for gunman_7 to hit greg's place then debo his ass when he exfils.
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
Note to self....skip Gregs place and stop BoltOveride from doing gunman 7, then follow him to the stash house and take care of business.
Next
Note to self....skip Gregs place and stop BoltOveride from doing gunman 7, then follow him to the stash house and take care of business.
Next
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
Well...they are just numbers in the air.
We live in the land of plenty.
No other place compares.
Well...they are just numbers in the air.
We live in the land of plenty.
No other place compares.
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
From the land of plenty to plenty of land can be a matter of seconds....what does that red button do i wonder???
Greg: Gold is store of value nothing more nothing less. All that is in the stars is the level to which this society will degenerate to. IF we're talking extremes (those armageddon style) then water/food/shelter/biggest club on the block to keep first three. All the rest is gravy as when (if) you exit armageddon days gold will again have value due to it being a commodity of pretty much limited amount. The less the armageddon scenario the more gold matters vs before mentioned necessities of life. Still there is no magic recipe but i think if SHTF then biggest asset is rural area, friends aka community and plenty of guns&ammo.
Today was a joke in EU as they've decided on another bailout "solution" for Greece in effect cloning TARP and bypassing basic rules upon which EU was founded (ECB has no right to intervene on markets buying up bonds directly so what do the sickos do, create another entity EFSF (The European Financial Stability Facility aka LOL!) which will do their bidding. Basically tracks are laid (downhill to hell), wagons are loaded, brakes (we dont need no stinkin brakes!!!!) were once, engine started and engine master kicked off, yipeee enjoy the ride....
From the land of plenty to plenty of land can be a matter of seconds....what does that red button do i wonder???
Greg: Gold is store of value nothing more nothing less. All that is in the stars is the level to which this society will degenerate to. IF we're talking extremes (those armageddon style) then water/food/shelter/biggest club on the block to keep first three. All the rest is gravy as when (if) you exit armageddon days gold will again have value due to it being a commodity of pretty much limited amount. The less the armageddon scenario the more gold matters vs before mentioned necessities of life. Still there is no magic recipe but i think if SHTF then biggest asset is rural area, friends aka community and plenty of guns&ammo.
Today was a joke in EU as they've decided on another bailout "solution" for Greece in effect cloning TARP and bypassing basic rules upon which EU was founded (ECB has no right to intervene on markets buying up bonds directly so what do the sickos do, create another entity EFSF (The European Financial Stability Facility aka LOL!) which will do their bidding. Basically tracks are laid (downhill to hell), wagons are loaded, brakes (we dont need no stinkin brakes!!!!) were once, engine started and engine master kicked off, yipeee enjoy the ride....
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
Yeah, well; my gold will be on a small table in the middle of a large field with a big sign saying "Please steal me!". I will be about 400yd away standing overwatch with my .280 Rem. So feel free...
As far as my home goes, my neighbors are good friends; and when the poop goes airborne, I will have already equipped and trained them as my inner perimeter.
Fools can always be found going for the 'easy bait'. Be certain to bring your really nicest, bestest goodies with you; we always appreciate a decent targets of opportunity/field expedient resupply.
Please, please try me...
Greg
Yeah, well; my gold will be on a small table in the middle of a large field with a big sign saying "Please steal me!". I will be about 400yd away standing overwatch with my .280 Rem. So feel free...
As far as my home goes, my neighbors are good friends; and when the poop goes airborne, I will have already equipped and trained them as my inner perimeter.
Fools can always be found going for the 'easy bait'. Be certain to bring your really nicest, bestest goodies with you; we always appreciate a decent targets of opportunity/field expedient resupply.
Please, please try me...
Greg
Re: 14.3 trillion debt
Just to put into perspective of how much 14 Trillion really is. you all should look at this!
A visualization of USA Credit card bill.
Just to put into perspective of how much 14 Trillion really is. you all should look at this!
A visualization of USA Credit card bill.
