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Suppressors 1911 quality?

Mr blasty

Mr blasty

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May 31, 2010
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I'm looking to get my first 1911 at the beginning of the year(a Springfield Armory lightweight operator). I eventually would like to have some work done to it down the road as well. From what I understand they have VERY good slide to frame fit and are well fitted. I'm not looking for a tighter than a 12 year old virgin nun moa capable comp or target gun but rather something that can handle mud, sand, dirt, rain etc...

So what makes $2-3k custom guns better than a customized Springfield that's had all of the MIM parts replaced and been customized by a reputable smith? Also what are peoples thoughts on having Wilson combat doing the work? I know some here think they are a bit expensive but how is there custom work? I'm really liking the looks of there work and IMHO 1911's are as much about aesthetics as they are about function. In addition to there work quality how good are there after market parts?

Thanks in advance.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

A custom gun means you get to pick everything. That means you decide what kind of sight cuts you want, what kind of cocking serrations, rail or not, stainless or not, ramped barrel or not, what brand and style of fire control components, what springs are used, how heavy the trigger is set, the hammer/sear will obviously be hand stoned by the gunsmith, etc.

Price the parts. You can't buy a springer and have it upgraded to the kind of parts that will come in a custom gun for what one costs.

Once you shoot the 1911 long enough, you will know what kind of parts you want. Until then, get yourself a fullsize, steel, 5" 1911 and start with that.

I am not even that much of a gun tinkerer, and I have refinished mine, changed all of the springs including the mag release spring, mainspring, recoil spring, etc., changed the front sight, grips, and trigger, etc.

If I was to order/build/have built a custom gun, I could tell you exactly what I'd want. Even then--I might end up changing something.

There's just no comparison between assembly line guns and full custom guns.

And, fwiw, the slide to frame fit on a Springfield that isn't a TRP or Professional is bound to be absolute shit. It probably doesn't matter either way, but the Brazil-made and fitted guns usually don't have that great a fit--anywhere.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

mr blasty, check out www.louderthanwords.us you will find the answer to those questions and many more.
the smiths that run the site are some of the best in the industry, and forum members are very knowledgable and willing to answer your questions.
you may also find a gun on the classified that fits your requirements for a lot less then running a new gun through a shop, kinda like finding a "name" rifle here that someone is moving up or need cash due to the economy etc.
good luck and have fun--cam
 
Re: 1911 quality?

There is a big difference between "tight" and "right".

I've shot Les Baer's that I couldn't rack by hand without cocking the hammer before...and they ran 100%. I've shot loose 1911's that ran 100% too. The tightness doesn't really impact performance, reliability wise. It's kind of an old wives tale. LAV did a "sand test" where he put a bunch of .45 pistols in a plastic bag full of sand, and shook them up. The tightly fitted 1911 performed better than the Glock 21 and the HK USP as it never let any sand in, in the first place.

Slide to frame fit doesn't really drive accuracy either. Barrel fitting does...both at the hood, bushing, and upper and lower lugs. If the barrel consistently locks up the same with the sights...it doesn't much matter what what the frame is doing.

What your paying for is a craftsman to make sure that all of those small little parts are interacting with each other perfectly, and harmoniously.

Springfields have a reputation of running well, out of the box...but they're not known for super tight fits. Kimber is, but they typically exhibit more problems. Trying to get everything fit tightly using a production line approach is just asking for trouble.

If you want a semi-custom, look at something like a used Les Baer or Wilson Combat. Otherwise, lots of different smiths can tune and build up a 1911 for you. Depending on how much you want to have done though, it'd probably be cheaper to buy a semi-custom from the start.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

Dane burns does great work also. Id pick up a kimber over SF.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

If you are planning on customizing and shooting it alot. I would not get a lightweight frame. They are great for carry, but the aluminum frames do not hold up to extensive reloading and shooting. I would get a steel frame vs. an aluminum frame.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

Like I said this will be my first 1911. I've shot 1911's but know very little about them. I will be looking for some quality 1911 dedicated forums to learn more as well. I want to stay around the $1k mark plus or minus a few hundred dollars for the base gun. I want a 5" barrel and a rail as well. My original plan was to get the Springfield and start having it worked on as I learned what I wanted/needed but you guys might be starting to sway my opinions. I'm perfectly fine with a semi custom gun if it has the quality/features I want. I'm still thinking of sending a Springfield to Wilson combat but I'd love to hear some more suggestions.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

True 2-3k guns start out as a whole bunch of parts, none of which fit together. All are oversized/require fitting.

My last custom build, an STi 2011 with two complete top ends (9 and 40), had an $875 labor price tag along with all the parts. This includes no special sauce price add on (the premium some named smiths get for their work). Factor that out at $50/hour shop rate and you get 17.5 hours of labor. My guess is he had more time than that in it.

Les Baer is the biggest brand I know of that follows this method, along with a healthy dose of special sauce, but at least you are getting a quality firearm. Smith? Kimber? Sig? SAI? Uh-uh. Not the same.

Bottom line, if it is not worth it to you then it is not worth it. My "shooter" is a Series 70 Colt. That is a well made, quality component pistol, though not match grade accuracy or tricked out in any way with a bull barrel etc.

Throw it in the mud, wash it off with a hose, and it will still function though... something you can't expect from a true "custom match" 1911 pistol.

I've shot a few Thunder Ranch LBCs. Neat pistols. Shot real well. Would never carry one though. That whole match accurized full size carry 1911 thing is a bunch of hooie. A really bad idea. Once you get them to shoot 3" or less at 50 yards the whole reliability aspect goes out the window. Given that if you ever need to use it as a defensive pistol the shot needs to be at 20 feet or less or you and Bubba or Sparky are gonna get real friendly, a rattlin' Series 70 with a strong safety detent as its only mod is hard to beat.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

One thing is sure, you'll spend more buying a pistol that is not what you want and turning it into what you want. Wilson and Baer are not in the same class as Kimber and Springfield. I have a Baer TRS that I used to carry and now use for USPSA matches. After 20K rounds, it's just now beginning to feel like it's broken in a bit. Tightest dang gun I've ever handled. It runs 100% until the spring needs changing. Do that and it's 100% again. I carry a Wilson 4" with an aluminum frame. The slide fit is looser, but it is also a 100% gun.

BTW, ignore that earlier comment about not buying an aluminum frame. I had a Kimber 3" with an aluminum frame that got 18K rounds through it before I traded it. The wear marks on the frame didn't change after the first 500 rounds. Every other damn part broke on it, but the frame was solid.

If I were in your shoes, I'd look for a used Baer. They don't make the prettiest 1911's, but I think they are the best value for the dollar.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

^^ This^^

this past week there's been a gently used Baer for $1500 and a Brown SF for $1600. One lucky SOB picked up a Springfield railed Pro for $1550. This time of year is good to buy used as people are needing xmas money.

Why would you want to send something to Wilson Combat for customizing or upgrading, other than you've heard the name ? Put that money into getting a better 1911 to start with. (and I speak as a Wilson owner).
Look at the different 1911's and decide what you need and what's fluff. Don't start sticking shit in or on your gun just because. Or do, hey, it's your money.

Is it just for home defense or carry or both ?
If you need a railed gun, why do you want a lightweight one ? For carry ? you going to carry a railed gun with a flashlight ?

99.9% of the basic Kimbers or Springfields will do what you need, faultlessly. They will likely be inherently more accurate than your ability to shoot them. I just picked up a used Kimber Super carry (posted a short review on here and some other forums). 80% of the comments were" oooh, pretty". It is pretty, but the frontstrap treatment is useless and there's zero serious fitting. A new one costs the about same as a used Baer and frankly, you'd be loopy to not get the Baer instead.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I've shot a few Thunder Ranch LBCs. Neat pistols. Shot real well. Would never carry one though. That whole match accurized full size carry 1911 thing is a bunch of hooie. A really bad idea. Once you get them to shoot 3" or less at 50 yards the whole reliability aspect goes out the window. Given that if you ever need to use it as a defensive pistol the shot needs to be at 20 feet or less or you and Bubba or Sparky are gonna get real friendly, a rattlin' Series 70 with a strong safety detent as its only mod is hard to beat. </div></div>

before i call"Hooie" on the bollocks above , i'm guessing that with all those Baers out there, getting shot in matches, you must have seen of/heard of a lot of them failing then ?
Rattle comes from the slide /frame fit and the grip safety/frame fit. Occassionally the trigger. By itself, rattle has almost zero bearing on reliability or accuracy. Ever think that maybe those loose tolerances might allow fine grit, mud, sand etc into your weapon ? And that things get in with much greater ease than they get back out ?
As that under 3" @50 yrd accuracy is 95% barrel to bushing and barrel hood to slide fit, your gun can rattle or not rattle like a coffee can full of nails, it gives no indication of anything other than it's a noisy gun.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

Well it seems clear that I don't know enough about the 1911 yet to make an informed decision. I think I'll just continue learning about them and wait till I can save up a bit more money so I can get exactly what I want.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

I knew what I wanted out of the box so I just saved up and waited for a nice used one to come up for sale.. and already broken in (smile)... Les Bear Thuder Ranch Special. If you can wait to get exactly what you want.. do that. Or order it directly from Springfield custom shop the way you want it and be done with it.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

Mr. Blasty

I just got int 1911's 2 weeks ago. All my buddies have Colts then send them to one smith or another and have them tuned to their liking. I planned on doing the same with a stock colt railgun....

I have a good friend that is a 1911 addict. He has 27 of them in one form or another......colt's, sti's, kimbers, springfields, les baer's, nighthawks, wilson combat and caspian's.....He pulled me aside and we went to the range with all of them....to be honest I could not tell you the best they all felt good and shot awesome.....but I could not get over how the $1000 kimber shot as compaired to the $2000 customs.... they were pretty darn close...yeah the customs were a bit better but not $1000....plus a pistol is not a bench gun.

Anyway, I ended up going with the Kimber tactical entry II....it had all the options I was looking for from the factory. It shoots like a dream and is all steel. I have not looked back and we have blown through 1500 rounds...it runs like a garden hose....have fun and good luck.....
 
Re: 1911 quality?

I've got a SS loaded springer full size. Only problem I've had that couldnt be narrowed down to running my can or a crap mag was the 2pc guide rod unscrewing. I've had it for around 5 yrs and love it.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

Is there anybody in the twin cities MN area who would let me try out there custom 1911's? I've handled and shot several stock lower end ones but I'd like to see just what exactly a custom one can do performance wise. Maybe then I could narrow down what it is I'm looking for.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr blasty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there anybody in the twin cities MN area who would let me try out there custom 1911's? I've handled and shot several stock lower end ones but I'd like to see just what exactly a custom one can do performance wise. Maybe then I could narrow down what it is I'm looking for.</div></div>

Don't take this as an insult, but unless you are a really gifted shooter, most can't tell the difference in how accurately they shoot. Most people can't out shoot even a poorly fitted 1911. Some can...maybe that's you. It took me a LONG time to even start to shoot well enough to appreciate things like a well fit 1911. A really long time.

Once you really study the inner workings of them, and you take a semi-custom apart...you really can see just what goes into fitting them.

I've had a good number of friends that owned semi-custom (and full custom) 1911's, who asked me to detail strip them and clean/lube them for them. Taking them down to nothing (save the plunger tube/ejector/sights/grip screw bushings) once you understand what interacts with what..you can really admire just how precisely things were fitted/ how much attention went into your gun.

If you want a railed Springfield...look at a TRP. You can replace some innards as time goes on, but they're great guns, out of the box. Other than that, look at a used Les Baer...you can always add a dawson rail if you really want it.

As for info sources, the Kuhnhausen books are the bible of technical info. The Sweeney books are a good overview, historical and general info. The Wilson Combat pistolsmithing DVD's are excellent at conveying parts interaction and the guts of them...but the best source of info would be getting yourself in a Vickers 1911 class.
http://vickerstactical.com/training-by-larry-vickers/training-courses-pistol/

Larry is one of the most sought after 1911 pistol shooters/smiths in the world, for good reason. If you really want to learn the 1911, training with Larry should be on your "to do list".
 
Re: 1911 quality?

I have a Wilson combat 1911 and my friend has a Taurus 1911. Both shot great groups and both fed thousands of rounds without a hiccup. Mine cost over 2k and his gun cost 600 bucks. The exponential increase in price is offering marginal benefits. The WC has better fit, looks cool, better finish...etc... but for 99% of what I do with a 1911, the Taurus is more than enough. And it will shoot better than I can. Basically, when you pull the trigger, both of them will go bang and hit the target.

Get a decent mid range 1911 and once you figure out what you need, go custom if that's what you really want.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

I have a Les Baer Premier II that is about a year old and an 10+ year old Springfield Loaded. After 10 years of shooting the heck out of the Springfield, I took it to a local smith to have it upgraded (slide-to-frame fit, match barrel, match bushing, flat trigger, cuts on the front strap, tuned, new front sight, etc.) Even after all of the work, it feels nothing like the Baer in terms of tightness and fit - the Baer feels amazing. That said, the Springfield has worked like a champion for the past 10 years and countless thousands of rounds. With the work done, I perceive that it shoots better, it is configured the way I want, and it is ready for another decade of use. Both guns serve as carry weapons, general range guns, and informal match guns. They are different in many respects, but that is why I like them both.

Good luck with your decision. You will find what you want; it just takes some time.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

Check out your local pistol clubs and ask if anyone knows somebody who builds a good bulls-eye guns. most of them can take a Springfield Milspec .45 and turn it into a real shooter for 500 -600 bucks. they will ask what type of bullet you want to shoot and bring you back a reliable shooter guaranteed to shoot 3" groups @ 50 yrds. or you can spend 2500 for a les baer. I think you can get one from http://www.champchoice.com/cat-Pistols-220.aspx for <&1700.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

I just picked up a dan wesson commander bobtail all stainless tight fit night sights good trigger. Nothing special but its 100% reliable and probably going to be my carry gun. My 9mm kimber has been giving me troubles since I got it, the factory mags were crap and it dosnt like HPs untill I smothed the crap out of the ramp.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: asiparks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">^^ This^^

this past week there's been a gently used Baer for $1500 and a Brown SF for $1600. One lucky SOB picked up a Springfield railed Pro for $1550. This time of year is good to buy used as people are needing xmas money.

Why would you want to send something to Wilson Combat for customizing or upgrading, other than you've heard the name ? Put that money into getting a better 1911 to start with. (and I speak as a Wilson owner).
Look at the different 1911's and decide what you need and what's fluff. Don't start sticking shit in or on your gun just because. Or do, hey, it's your money.

Is it just for home defense or carry or both ?
If you need a railed gun, why do you want a lightweight one ? For carry ? you going to carry a railed gun with a flashlight ?

99.9% of the basic Kimbers or Springfields will do what you need, faultlessly. They will likely be inherently more accurate than your ability to shoot them. I just picked up a used Kimber Super carry (posted a short review on here and some other forums). 80% of the comments were" oooh, pretty". It is pretty, but the frontstrap treatment is useless and there's zero serious fitting. A new one costs the about same as a used Baer and frankly, you'd be loopy to not get the Baer instead.

</div></div>

Do this with your Baer and report back please.

http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90
 
Re: 1911 quality?

I've been caught in the "true custom" bag a couple of times before. Something most people don't think about is getting rid of it if the need arises. Most everyone has heard of and is fairly informed about the semi-customs (Baer, Brown Wilson etc), so they are usually fairly easy to move on a local basis if need be. A LOT of shooters have never heard of many of the top 1911 smiths and thus your marklet for re-sale is very much more limited. Sometimes, it requires going on line to sell high-end guns, especially the more expensive they are. Also, what you want on your custom 1911 may not be what everyone else is wanting, so again, you're behind the eight ball. Also, paperwork is ESENTIAL in selling a custom gun. A Vickers full house gun without the paperwork to verify it ( and all the work done on it) is worth 30-40 percent of what a documented gun is worth. So, be careful what you wish for. In my experience, you lose less resale value with a semi-custom than with a full house costom gun, on average.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do this with your Baer and report back please.

http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90</div></div> What's the point of comparing a LB to a G21?

What's the point of a "torture test"? Is that criteria meaningful in your selection of a handgun?
 
Re: 1911 quality?

Where's your report? You're so convinced that tight guns are good at sealing out the elements and are as good or better then loose guns, so let's see your report.

That is the point of comparing the LB to the G21.

Yes, expecting the gun to run in less than ideal conditions, including physical abuse that could result in damage, is a criteria for me in picking a CCW sidearm.

Please, if you are going to defend the use of tight 1911s for CCW, present some answers instead of more questions.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where's your report? You're so convinced that tight guns are good at sealing out the elements and are as good or better then loose guns, so let's see your report.

That is the point of comparing the LB to the G21.

Yes, expecting the gun to run in less than ideal conditions, including physical abuse that could result in damage, is a criteria for me in picking a CCW sidearm.

Please, if you are going to defend the use of tight 1911s for CCW, present some answers instead of more questions.</div></div>

http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/8653-not-weak-heart-1911-fans.html#post93512

The original thread which that came from (on Glocktalk) was deleted, AFAIK.

The bottom line though, is that what happens to guns in holsters and in use is far more important that what falls out of airplanes the best, or can run with rock salt in it.

So, what do you think a "torture test" reveals about a firearm that is critical about its performance as a weapon?
 
Re: 1911 quality?

Still looking for some harsh environment test results of tight 1911s there Jim. No shortage of such for the Glocks.

Let us know when you got something to support your position.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Still looking for some harsh environment test results of tight 1911s there Jim. No shortage of such for the Glocks.

Let us know when you got something to support your position.

</div></div>

Like what, their use in MARSOC or SFOD-D?

How does performance in Antarctica or Afghanistan relate to the needs of someone who legally carries a gun CONUS, in a concealed holster?
 
Re: 1911 quality?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looking to learn as always. Still waiting. Got anything Jim?</div></div> Nevermind, you're too interested in making snide retorts, and are apparently unwilling to answer the questions I have (which is ultimately an admission of not having any answer worth mentioning).
 
Re: 1911 quality?

Do you want an old school 45? Get the Remington or the Springfield 1991 Mil-Spec. Both are super cheap(as far as 45's go) and you can do everything yourself for upgrades with the exception of cutting the frame for different sights. A bit of black ink and a dremel tool will make it work great and you get to your finished product as you learn. Of course you will need a copy of Jerry Kuhnhausen's 'The Colt .45 Automatic' A Shop Manual.
It will get you where you want to go and if your not careful, you may learn something too.
You want new school? Get a Glock 21 and don't look back. Get the Guncrafters .50GI kit if you want to 'go large'.
Bottom Line though, you will have more fun working on your own gun and it's realy cool when you get to the finished end and have a seriously reliable shooter
 
Re: 1911 quality?

ps The MARSOC 45's have performed flawlessly for their Marine users in theater. The Marines and the .45 go way way back. In fact, my own issued Remington Rand .45 was one loose bitch and she always shot where I aimed and shot many many magazines without failure to feed, fire, or eject. It got carried in water, in the H46, and over Hawaii's sandy beaches more miles than I can remember. It never failed me once when it was time to shoot either whether dirty or clean. In my own experiment to laziness and little Lei Mei(my 45) I got it really dusty and dirty for about three months and it shot fine.

My hand fitted Springfield slide on a Safari Arms frame is tight as hell. After it was broken in it shot and still shoots flawlesly, but then it is always clean and has only seen the occasional shoulder holster carry and nice clean range time
 
Re: 1911 quality?

The OP said that this will be his first 1911. The 1911 is a hard gun to shoot well and there are so many models and manufacturers available it would be hard to pick one out without a lot of time on the trigger. My recommendation would be to find a good pre 80 Series Colt as a starting point. These guns are steadily appreciating and if he buys carefully he would be hard pressed to lose money. This will give him an opportunity to develop the skills that are required to evaluate the higher end models. If you aren't a fairly accompolished shooter, you can't appreciate the differences anyway (except sights).

That being said, CDNN has TRPs (no rail) at just a little over his budget.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[

Do this with your Baer and report back please.

http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90 </div></div>

Are you simple ? WTF does a Glock have to with anything ? I own three of the little plastic fuckers.
You are bragging on the superior reliability of <span style="font-weight: bold">your Colt</span> afforded by it's rattly fitting,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My "shooter" is a Series 70 Colt. That is a well made, quality component pistol, though not match grade accuracy or tricked out in any way with a bull barrel etc.

Throw it in the mud, wash it off with a hose, and it will still function though... something you can't expect from a true "custom match" 1911 pistol.</div></div>

so hows about you do that with your Colt, then report back....

a 1911 is not harder to shoot than any other gun. If anything, it's generally excellent trigger, good ergonomics and heft, make it a reasonably easy and enjoyable pistol to shoot
 
Re: 1911 quality?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BPAWoodwalker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you're looking for a GOOD Pistolsmith, you can't go wrong with Don Williams at The Action Works.
Don is a one man shop and he has built 3 Full House Customs for me and his work is outstanding.


http://www.theactionworks.com/</div></div>

+1
Don, has worked on my Kimber Stainless Classic a couple of times. The reason I trusted him to work on my pistol is becuase I called him with a question about premature slide lock backs and he offered to reshape my slide release, and he did it for free. Since then he has changed out a rear and front sight, and recrowned my 1911 barrel. Great guy to deal with.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

Mr. Blasty - a Springer LW Government would be a great gun. Might even be the last one you get. As for customs yada - get your hands on a lot of 1911s built or inspired for what you want. Take notes of the little things - how wide you like your thumb safety, what type of MSH you like (flat or arched), the type of grip safety you like (how high you can hold, size of the pad at the bottom), high cut or standard under the trigger, what type of sights you like, etc. The rest is just ginger bread.

As for the rest of it, 1911 bickering is always fun to watch...

I have carried an LB TRS as a near daily driver for almost 10 yrs. It has around 50k on it, has gone to 2k+ with no cleaning, had hammer follow out of the box (a 5 minute fix) and has never missed a beat since. I carry it dirty (it might shock some of you just what that means). I have taken it to Lakeview. I trust it.

Les' guns take a beating by the 1911ers b/c of those that don't own them, those that own something different, and mostly b/c Les himself is a dick.

Accuracy largely comes from the fit of the barrel - not the slide and frame. Accuracy is overrated. Yeah, it is nice to stack them in the same hole but if it is as accurate as a Glock - that is all that is needed.

Reliability is the sum of all parts. As for fit, loose guns allow for operation even with some goo in between (before anyone goes off the edge - look at the barrel lug fit of any 1911 in full lock up and slide to hood fit - then ask how much goo that can reasonably be). Tight guns keep the goo out. Both can be made reliable.

As for civi carry, if you keep anything that is well made lubed - regardless of how 'dirty' it gets in civi mode - it will run. This discussion like most related to the 1911 is a lot of hot air.

In general - know that if you are buying a high end 1911 - you're paying for ginger bread and a name. A stripped down basic gun with good parts is all that is needed.

Good luck

 
Re: 1911 quality?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hattori Hanz&#333;</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
before you go off calling fellow members "simple," you may want to actually read through every post. The glock example absolutely applies to the argument being made that a super tight fitting gun will perform more reliably when full of sand & water than a loose fitting one. </div></div>

I'm sorry, i must have completely missed the " glock vs 1911" part of the title when i clicked on the thread.
He claims his series 70 rattle can is, because of looseness of tolerance, inherently more reliable than a Baer. He than backs that up with a link to a Glock test rather than address his own argument. So yes, that is "simple".
 
Re: 1911 quality?

go STI and never look back.

custom quality, production type pricing.

insane accuracy and reliability.

I have a 40S&W that holds 22 rounds in a mag, uses standard holsters, and is thinner than a factory 1911 with normal grips.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aggiesig</div><div class="ubbcode-body">go STI and never look back.

custom quality, production type pricing.

insane accuracy and reliability.

I have a 40S&W that holds 22 rounds in a mag, uses standard holsters, and is thinner than a factory 1911 with normal grips. </div></div>

What kind of STI is that?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: asiparks</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hattori Hanz&#333;</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
before you go off calling fellow members "simple," you may want to actually read through every post. The glock example absolutely applies to the argument being made that a super tight fitting gun will perform more reliably when full of sand & water than a loose fitting one. </div></div>

I'm sorry, i must have completely missed the " glock vs 1911" part of the title when i clicked on the thread.
He claims his series 70 rattle can is, because of looseness of tolerance, inherently more reliable than a Baer. He than backs that up with a link to a Glock test rather than address his own argument. So yes, that is "simple". </div></div>


Simple my ass. It should be common sense why a looser gun (to a point) is more reliable than a tighter one.

Some custom guns, Baer included, are so tight that they're hard to rack. Even carbon fouling could stop a gun that locks up that tight.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tango 396</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mr. Blasty

I just got int 1911's 2 weeks ago. All my buddies have Colts then send them to one smith or another and have them tuned to their liking. I planned on doing the same with a stock colt railgun....

I have a good friend that is a 1911 addict. He has 27 of them in one form or another......colt's, sti's, kimbers, springfields, les baer's, nighthawks, wilson combat and caspian's.....He pulled me aside and we went to the range with all of them....to be honest I could not tell you the best they all felt good and shot awesome.....but I could not get over how the $1000 kimber shot as compaired to the $2000 customs.... they were pretty darn close...yeah the customs were a bit better but not $1000....plus a pistol is not a bench gun.

Anyway, I ended up going with the Kimber tactical entry II....it had all the options I was looking for from the factory. It shoots like a dream and is all steel. I have not looked back and we have blown through 1500 rounds...it runs like a garden hose....have fun and good luck.....
</div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tango 396</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mr. Blasty

I just got int 1911's 2 weeks ago. All my buddies have Colts then send them to one smith or another and have them tuned to their liking. I planned on doing the same with a stock colt railgun....

I have a good friend that is a 1911 addict. He has 27 of them in one form or another......colt's, sti's, kimbers, springfields, les baer's, nighthawks, wilson combat and caspian's.....He pulled me aside and we went to the range with all of them....to be honest I could not tell you the best they all felt good and shot awesome.....but I could not get over how the $1000 kimber shot as compaired to the $2000 customs.... they were pretty darn close...yeah the customs were a bit better but not $1000....plus a pistol is not a bench gun.

Anyway, I ended up going with the Kimber tactical entry II....it had all the options I was looking for from the factory. It shoots like a dream and is all steel. I have not looked back and we have blown through 1500 rounds...it runs like a garden hose....have fun and good luck.....
</div></div>



I like kimber and own one, but understand that most are not right out of the box. Kimber has good customer service and will make it right, but you are the quality control. Mine had to back to get the Chamber reamed out, it was cut too tight. It also pre-mature slide lock backs, and surprisingly they knew about and offered to send me a modified slidelock. Mine now has 10k+ rounds and runs great all the time, but it had growing pains.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

Having owned a few springfield 1911's I'd say they're a good introduction to the type. Mine always seemed too loose for my tastes, but they functioned well. Not the most accurate 1911's out there, but not bad.

Is a Les Baer worth twice the money? Yes, for my money it is, and that's why I'm buying another one and not buying another springfield.

As far as the glock vs. 1911 sidetrack, I own and will carry either, they've both got their place. For a plain old defensive sidearm so long as it goes bang when I tell it too and sends bullets in something that resembles a straight line nothing else really matters. You don't need a $2000 pistol to accomplish that.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr blasty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well it seems clear that I don't know enough about the 1911 yet to make an informed decision. I think I'll just continue learning about them and wait till I can save up a bit more money so I can get exactly what I want. </div></div>A wise method. You have a PM.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elcam</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like kimber and own one, but understand that most are not right out of the box. Kimber has good customer service and will make it right, but you are the quality control. Mine had to back to get the Chamber reamed out, it was cut too tight. It also pre-mature slide lock backs, and surprisingly they knew about and offered to send me a modified slidelock. Mine now has 10k+ rounds and runs great all the time, but it had growing pains.</div></div>

The "modified" slide stop they sent you was a .45ACP part...the one that should be in the gun in the first place. They are well known for shipping guns with 9mm/.38Super slide stops.

http://10-8performance.blogspot.com/2010/07/kimber-warrior.html

Just for shits and giggles, take a look at some of the 1911 forums where there are posts back in 2007 (and before) where people complain about the same thing...and Kimber keeps on doing it, even today.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elcam</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like kimber and own one, but understand that most are not right out of the box. Kimber has good customer service and will make it right, but you are the quality control. Mine had to back to get the Chamber reamed out, it was cut too tight. It also pre-mature slide lock backs, and surprisingly they knew about and offered to send me a modified slidelock. Mine now has 10k+ rounds and runs great all the time, but it had growing pains.</div></div>

The "modified" slide stop they sent you was a .45ACP part...the one that should be in the gun in the first place. They are well known for shipping guns with 9mm/.38Super slide stops.

http://10-8performance.blogspot.com/2010/07/kimber-warrior.html

Just for shits and giggles, take a look at some of the 1911 forums where there are posts back in 2007 (and before) where people complain about the same thing...and Kimber keeps on doing it, even today.</div></div>


Might of been the wrong slide lock. The one they sent me looked as if it had been ground slightly, similar to what Don Williams from "Actionworks" did to the one that originally came with the gun.

Knowing what I know now, I would not have bought the Kimber 10 years ago, however, that being said it is a fine pistol now that I have invested the time and energy to make it right. I would probably go with an STI, Les Baer, or Ed Brown.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elcam</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Knowing what I know now, I would not have bought the Kimber 10 years ago, however, that being said it is a fine pistol now that I have invested the time and energy to make it right. I would probably go with an STI, Les Baer, or Ed Brown.
</div></div>

I'd put my 10 year old Kimber up against any gun that costs less than $1500 today.

It's every bit as nice, and as feature-packed, as a Springfield TRP.

Kimber might have lost it now, but 10 years ago, they offered something that nobody could even touch in their price range.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

Thanks everybody for you're opinions. I've since joined some 1911 forums and have been learning a lot. All of you have given me more to think about so it might be a bit before I decide what I want now anyways.
 
Re: 1911 quality?

Mr B, go with the entry level 1911 or 'go big'. A mil-spec model is a nice gun and will shoot. FOrget about what anyone says about a 1911 being hard to shoot. If the Marines could take country boys, city kids, and rednecks and have them shooting .45's in one day, you can do it just as easily. If you want lightweight, smooth finish and operability in a small package, it is awful hard to beat the STI Escort or similiar model. That is my version of 'going big'.
A box stock Springfield Mil-Spec or other entry model, or the new Remington will serve you well AND let you learn the ropes of a .45 as you make improvements to make it fit you better or do, look, whatever how you want it a step at a time.
45's are killer.

Why did the name Glock even come up here, it has no bearing on a model 1911 .45. This isn't about anything other than 1911's so there is no interest in anything else in this thread. You like Glocks and other plastic guns, there are many more threads dedicated to that in this forum
 
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