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Rifle Scopes 1st Mar Div -M40A1 with Picitiny rail and ring set

TWOMANATTACK

TWOMANATTACK

Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 9, 2010
2,422
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menifee california
Early 1990s, there were a hand full of M40A1s at 1st Mar Div outfitted with picitiny rail scope bases. I am trying to find out who manufactured those bases. Any OLD SCHOOL 8541s or BN armors out there remember these rifles? There were only a hand full of them set up this way. SS School @ Division Schools, Camp Margarita saw several of them and Horno had a hand full. If so any input would help as I am building my M40A1 and want to outfit it as correctly as possible.
 
Re: 1st Mar Div -M40A1 with Picitiny rail and ring set

Only a guess, but I'm betting D.D. Ross made them.
 
Re: 1st Mar Div -M40A1 with Picitiny rail and ring set

I have a couple pics of those and I think they only used them if they used the PVS-10. As to who made the base and rings I think thats going to be a hard one to answer. Wish I could help you.
 
Re: 1st Mar Div -M40A1 with Picitiny rail and ring set

If you buy George Gardner a 6-pack (FedEx works), he might ask his buddies at Quantico.
 
Re: 1st Mar Div -M40A1 with Picitiny rail and ring set

I haven't seen any myself, but I do remember seeing pictures here of the PMO using M40A1's with a rail rather than the Unertl base. This was from when the A3's were already fielded to all SS platoons and maybe even after the S&B's came along.
 
Re: 1st Mar Div -M40A1 with Picitiny rail and ring set

I saw one like this and it had a DD Ross Rail for a M40A3 on it.
The original base was fixe rings and built by Unertl

Hope this helps
 
Re: 1st Mar Div -M40A1 with Picitiny rail and ring set

Here is a pic of what is being talked about. It definitly is a picatinny rail but dont know who the maker of the mount it. If you look close at it this mount doesnt look as long front part that part of the mount that is now being used on the M40a5. I have seen one more pic of this same setup. I have not seen it with the picatinny rail and fixed rings that would house the Unertl scope. I have only seen the pic with the PVS-10 and not the Unertl. The other pic that I do remember seeing was with the same scope as well. Ill keep looking for it and if I see it Ill post it. I think that this pic was one that was posted on here about a year or 2 ago.
M40a1115.jpg
 
Re: 1st Mar Div -M40A1 with Picitiny rail and ring set

If you can't ID the maker of the original Picatinny rail, check out the Badger 306-06UX based lugged for clip slotted actions. I can't find an image on the BO website, but I have one and can take a picture if you'd like to see it. The clip slot design is the latest USMC spec, and historically there have been three clip slot specs. I think the current one is the same as the present Remington design.

Here's an image of my M40A1 just after it arrived from GAP with the Badger 306-06UX (it now has a Unertl). Note that the rail extends to the end of the action where it meets the recoil lug. I'll measure my DD Ross clip-slotted rail too and give you the length of the Badger and the Ross. The rail in USMC GRUNT's picture is definitely shorter; Marty at Badger might machine the length of his 306-06UX to your specification.

IMG_0131.jpg
 
Re: 1st Mar Div -M40A1 with Picitiny rail and ring set

Now that I have given this some thought and looked at some of my old pics. My rifle was outfitted with a SIMRAD scope mount and that explains the whole question. Now if I could just find out which base and ring set were used back in 1990-98 i could build what I want. Any advice helps.
 
Re: 1st Mar Div -M40A1 with Picitiny rail and ring set

Was it like the one in the picture that I was lucky enough to get at work? Original Unertl with Simrad attached. If not can you post some pics of what yours looks like.
DSCF0291.jpg
 
Re: 1st Mar Div -M40A1 with Picitiny rail and ring set

No mine was on a picitiny rail... i remember cleaning between the rails. My rifle did not have the Redfield style mounts. Back then I didnt pay much a attention to it. I just noticed that there were a hand full of other rifles like mine with picitiny rails. IF I remember correctly the rings were 4 screw both front and back. Unlike the newer edition with 4 and 6. All the input helps
 
Re: 1st Mar Div -M40A1 with Picitiny rail and ring set

FWIW back in the bad old days Redfields w/ welded rings were the norm but Crane MADE some 20 MOA bases that had 4 slots. IIRC they were set up to handle Loopy Ultras and the "NEW" AN-PVS-10's. There is a fella here who has one mounted on his 26" PSS from around 1992.

I got out of the game in 1994 and at that time there were doggone few "picatinny" or 1913 bases anywhere let alone anything other than "Weaver" cross bolt rings.

Cheers,

Doc
 
Re: 1st Mar Div -M40A1 with Picitiny rail and ring set

The base and ring set in the GAP images of the M40A1 is made by Badger. The difference between it and the one in the picture of my rifle is that the GAP setup has two 4-hole rings and I have a 4- and 6-hole ring set. You can buy a 30mm SIMRAD cap that will mount in place of the forward 4-hole ring cap. If you are using an MST-100, then you will need a set of Badger reducing rings as well.
 
Re: 1st Mar Div -M40A1 with Picitiny rail and ring set

Found out the whole story on my rifle and why it was set up the way it was and who didn and what parts I will need to re do it, Thanks for the help
 
Re: 1st Mar Div -M40A1 with Picitiny rail and ring set

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lennyo3034</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do share </div></div>

+1
 
Re: 1st Mar Div -M40A1 with Picitiny rail and ring set

Yes please do share!
 
Re: 1st Mar Div -M40A1 with Picitiny rail and ring set

Resurrecting an old thread for more information. Two Man what was up with your rifle set up please do share. I am looking at building something a little different. Like a transition piece. The specs of your rifle or the one like in the picture above is what I am looking at doing. Did these newer M40A1's that were coming back through Quantico get fitted with the DD Ross bottom metal? Also did these have M24 triggers? Anyone? Thanks
 
Re: 1st Mar Div -M40A1 with Picitiny rail and ring set

After EXTENSIVE research and arduous tracking I found some answers, for those who are intersted keep reading .... All this information is second hand and may not be historically accurate depending on the quality of the source. Some of the people I spoke to were more helpful than others. According to several different reliable sources, these rails were ddross rails, I still dont know for sure who made the rings however 2 sources stated it was SIMRAD who built the rings???? I tried to verify that but could not. This is the important part, the top of the actions had a recess cut into them and base was fitted into that recess. This is a detail that I clearly remember. The spec demanded that the scope base would hold itself to the receiver without screws while the rifle was turned upside down. One of the sources that I spoke to had all the serial numbers of the 4 rifles my unit had and has the specs for that cut in the top of the action. He had an explanation for why the rifles had to be fitted this way. He explained that the bases were installed on my units M40s because of the SOC qualification the MEU required for deployment. To be SOC qualified we had to be able to detect, identify and engage targets at night. My unit only had 4 M40A1s that were built to this spec. The USMC was also starting to develop a device nick name INOD (intergrate night obesevation device) the mold for this was show cased to us at the advanced course in Quantico back in the late 90's. Had the INOD actully became part of the USMC's gear it would have mounted to the M40s on these rails. Hope that helps.
off the subject but if your interested keep reading...
One other detail about SPEC M40A1 rifles. I carried 2 different M40A1s over the years and neither of them had the current muzzle crown we are seeing on the rifles being built by most builders. Both of mine had a much more square cut recess crowns. All of the M40A1s that I used or saw had a different cut. I have heard pleanty of rumors over the years but the truth is, the crown was cut differently than the current speck. Mr. Gardner @ GAP had posted some pictures of these barrells at one point that showed what I mean. They pictures are no longer available on the hide. He may be able to repost them for you if you need to see that cut. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: birddogsx3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Resurrecting an old thread for more information. Two Man what was up with your rifle set up please do share. I am looking at building something a little different. Like a transition piece. The specs of your rifle or the one like in the picture above is what I am looking at doing. Did these newer M40A1's that were coming back through Quantico get fitted with the DD Ross bottom metal? Also did these have M24 triggers? Anyone? Thanks </div></div>
 
Re: 1st Mar Div -M40A1 with Picitiny rail and ring set

Many have said mine is incorrect. Is this what yours looked more like?
106.jpg

I've also been told it is right.
 
Re: 1st Mar Div -M40A1 with Picitiny rail and ring set

Yes the barrell in the picture is what ALL of the barrells I was affiliatded with looked like, except many had dings in the crown. I agree that the crowns we are seeing on GAP built and Mcmillan built rifles are sturdier, but I want my stuff to look the way it did when I was carring it around. I have heard that the cut of the recess crown depended on the riflesmith. Who ever told you, yours is incorrect may have never seen them any other way. Thanks you for posting that picture. I have seen several other pictures floating around that show a hand full of take off barrells from the RTE shop @ Quantico that look the same as yours. Your barrel is cut about the same as both of my issued rifles were. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chad3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Many have said mine is incorrect. Is this what yours looked more like?
106.jpg

I've also been told it is right. </div></div>
 
Re: 1st Mar Div -M40A1 with Picitiny rail and ring set

Two Man, I meant to PM you but your box is full. I have a contact that may help with any questions you have. Let me know if you're interested.
 
Re: 1st Mar Div -M40A1 with Picitiny rail and ring set

Send me a pm we can chat pretty good.
 
doc76251 said:
FWIW back in the bad old days Redfields w/ welded rings were the norm but Crane MADE some 20 MOA bases that had 4 slots. IIRC they were set up to handle Loopy Ultras and the "NEW" AN-PVS-10's. There is a fella here who has one mounted on his 26" PSS from around 1992.

I got out of the game in 1994 and at that time there were doggone few "picatinny" or 1913 bases anywhere let alone anything other than "Weaver" cross bolt rings.

Cheers,

Doc
Click to expand...

I know this is an old thread... but...

Doc,

Can you... or anyone... elaborate a bit more on this set-up... especially the 'Weaver" rings... were the Weaver rings called into service in the early days before the Picatinny rail and rings were common... thanks!
 
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