MARS-Lc Review & Order Link

[Evolution 9]

The MRF has the same rangefinder, established brand, and is lighter. Plus if you add a fixed 5mph wind in the box and turn 180 degrees hunting it will update a left vs. right hold.

If I need a computer to tell me that my hold is in opposite direction (left/right) when I shoot 180 degrees different than I was previously facing, it’s time to stay out of the woods

Regarding your PRS wins:

Please take this as an attempt to be genuinely helpful.

We are all impressed. That takes genuine knowledge and skill.

There are lots of other valid ways to acquire and/or demonstrate high levels of knowledge and skill in this area. Some of the members here are current or former police or military snipers. Some choose to attend (and excel at) training courses from the same schools that train our elite forces. Others were consummate experts long before PRS even became a thing.

Some of those men are in this thread, and while they should all respect your wins, many of them wouldn’t trade their credentials for a few PRS wins.

Your PRS wins demonstrate that you have the depth of knowledge to be taken seriously. They don’t, however, act as a trump card over other experiences or opinions.

 

[Dogtown]

And on that note, people seem to forget that we are air fish, living within a sea of air. Wind moves according to fluid dynamics, not simple vectors (direction & magnitude), though that is still the easiest way to calculate it as a force vector. My point is that because it's a fluid, you get eddys/vortices, turbulence and boundary flow around objects that you should consider when shooting in non-flat terrain.

This semi-useless fact brought to you by Navier-Stokes

 

[264Charlie]

If I need a computer to tell me that my hold is in opposite direction (left/right) when I shoot 180 degrees different than I was previously facing, it’s time to stay out of the woods

Regarding your PRS wins:

Please take this as an attempt to be genuinely helpful.

We are all impressed. That takes genuine knowledge and skill.

There are lots of other valid ways to acquire and/or demonstrate high levels of knowledge and skill in this area. Some of the members here are current or former police or military snipers. Some choose to attend (and excel at) training courses from the same schools that train our elite forces. Others were consummate experts long before PRS even became a thing.

Some of those men are in this thread, and while they should all respect your wins, many of them wouldn’t trade their credentials for a few PRS wins.

Your PRS wins demonstrate that you have the depth of knowledge to be taken seriously. They don’t, however, act as a trump card over other experiences or opinions.

I am certainly not the best shooter nor have I ever claimed to be. What I am saying is aero Jump, and spindrift are real things that require wind direction to help increase the accuracy of ballistics calculations. I was shooting long before the PRS as well. I can 100% say, shooter, ballistics, and rifle combos have a lot higher hit probability today vs. 1995 because of match shooting driving innovation.

Do you need a computer to tell you to shoot left or right? No, you don't, I agree with you. I also agree wind is fluid and not the same at the shooter as the down-range conditions. I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that. What we can do is leverage technology to get us closer to perfection.

To help me understand what you are disagreeing with. Are you saying it's a good thing for MARS to not have the feature advertised and generally available by other vendors? Regardless of whether one shooter vs. the other finds them useful and chooses to turn them off or on? If so, what would make you buy MARS over the MRFXe? I'm generally asking because I don't know and trying to figure out what I'm missing.

 

[Dogtown]

To help me understand what you are disagreeing with. Are you saying it's a good thing for MARS to not have the feature advertised and generally available by other vendors? Regardless of whether one shooter vs. the other finds them useful and chooses to turn them off or on? If so, what would make you buy MARS over the MRFXe? I'm generally asking because I don't know and trying to figure out what I'm missing.

Whoa whoa dude, slow down. This is the Hide, where people are supposed to go from zero to FUCK YOU within a couple responses. Get out of here with that reasonably objective attitude!

 

[4O6shootist]

@264Charlie do you have info where it's advertised for the mars to pull live wind from a kestrel and update on the fly as you get range and azimuth on targets down range?
Trust me I was hoping/expecting this unit to have it, especially for the price. My mars is shipping currently, it'll be an upgrade from my radius, but will it be a 10X price upgrade? Prob not.

 

[TheOtherAndrew]

Out of curiosity, have you used this method to win a national-level PRS or Hunter match

you can take it or leave it. But it is a helpful tool for me.

 

[TheOtherAndrew]

Out of curiosity, have you used this method to win a national-level PRS or Hunter match?

I too am curious - are you planning on running the MARS or any WM-LRF during a PRS match???

 

[264Charlie]

I too am curious - are you planning on running the MARS or any WM-LRF during a PRS match???

I don't see it that useful in the PRS as I have time to calculate dope in advance. NRL Hunter matches seem like a WM-LRF would be helpful.

 

[deepsea]

If anyone wants to know the level of support you will get after buying a 10k MARS from Envision-Tek. It's nonexistent, after three days they can't even acknowledge an email about the basic functionality of the unit.

Needs to be said - from personal experience this is completely wrong.

 

[Rhed]

Needs to be said - from personal experience this is completely wrong.

Is there a support phone number to call? Maybe try calling if there is.

 

[TheOtherAndrew]

Talked with Envision cpl day ago. Essentially saying dont expect your order in hand before Christmas......

 

[264Charlie]

Needs to be said - from personal experience this is completely wrong.

My experience with support was great before buying the product. Afterward, not so much. Preston was great though and handled most things.

 

[264Charlie]

Used the Vortex, Wilcox MRFxe at the Grind last weekend. Both support wind holds, so... the MARS is the only one that can't seem to do it right.

 

[Glassaholic]

@SkyScrapin how about a side by side pic of the Vortex Impact 4000 next to the MARS-Lc

 

[TheOtherAndrew]

Idk Ive been pretty solid supporter of the MARS system (mainly for size of digits and return to zero from attaching/detaching - so I hear). Not having these very basic aspects of ballistics included in this $10k doodad is annoying; now that they've pulled the delay/fake launch again (without telling anybody, even my vendor has a different story than Envision at this point as to what the problem is) Im wondering if I dont just cancel the damn order. These people have no backbones and flake the second you want help.

 

[264Charlie]

So, I have used the MARS for about 120 rounds of night shooting, mostly hunting. The RF is solid, the mount holds zero, and using it with the spin and jump turned off works well inside 500. An RF mode would be great for using ballistic reticles like an ACOG or Elcan.

I still need to send it in for a SW update, but so far, so good. I hope we see some updates and maybe a version with a Civ laser to help the NV guys find critters.

6MM ARC, TIG, SMRS2.

I saw nothing tonight, so I ranged a 16” plate at 927y and let the MARS sensors pull data. It returned 8.7 Mills. I had five mph @ 270 in the unit (the MARS will not change wind with a change in DOF). Held .7 left, as the wind was at 10:30, and connected off a tripod.
Honestly, I'm impressed. LR thermal shots have yet to be effortless for me. I would not take a bet that I'd make that shot again, but it does build some confidence in the rig.

Next, I will mount the RF over the scope, find my 20-round mags, get some turret glow stick, and call this build done.

 

[264Charlie]

 

[Dogtown]

Sexy combo

 

[SkyScrapin]

Update 12/14/23:

All open orders will be fulfilled by January.

We will have minimal inventory on the shelf. If you can checkout through our website, you are guaranteed a unit.

Thanks!
Preston

 

[264Charlie]

I just smoked three yotes with mine tonight. 227, 342, 285. 18" 6 ARC.

 

[Buck Lawman]

Nice! Other than the DOF thing you were disappointed with how are you liking the unit? I was wondering if it has the ability to display some form of anti cant level?

 

[Rhed]

Was there a update to fix DOF on the MARS?

 

[264Charlie]

Mine is due for an update but I have not sent it back yet. Not sure what they are updating as I have not be told anything more than “improvements”.

So far I’m happy with it outside of DOF, it will display cant via a bar, I’ll try and get a video up.

I do wish it had TracIR support.

 

[SkyScrapin]

Mine is due for an update but I have not sent it back yet. Not sure what they are updating as I have not be told anything more than “improvements”.

So far I’m happy with it outside of DOF, it will display cant via a bar, I’ll try and get a video up.

I do wish it had TracIR support.

@264Charlie

I was on an email thread where the President of Envision replied directly to you with the details behind the update. It was a few months ago or more that they requested it back with overnight labels provided. Shoot me a PM or Text and I’ll reshare if you missed it.

You’re (and so do most) misusing the word TracIR as a blanket statement for disturbed reticle and HUD. It’s simply a legacy OASYS term.

MARS has iBeam rev B and D which means it absolutely supports passing information to connected devices such as thermals. MARS software has Pixels preloaded as example. Summarizing, it for sure does HUD and Disturbed reticle with devices that support it. It’s even in some new .gov contracts

 

[SkyScrapin]

Was there a update to fix DOF on the MARS?

Not that I’m aware of.

Essentially what was raised is the wind direction doesn’t automatically adjust to your new heading if you re-orient the rifle in a new direction. The DOF is static based on a point in time which boils down to what military end users requested.

Envision is always innovating - the hardware is already onboard - it’s a matter of roadmap and prioritizes based on much larger demand centers.

 

[TheOtherAndrew]

Not that I’m aware of.

Essentially what was raised is the wind direction doesn’t automatically adjust to your new heading if you re-orient the rifle in a new direction. The DOF is static based on a point in time which boils down to what military end users requested.

Envision is always innovating - the hardware is already onboard - it’s a matter of roadmap and prioritizes based on much larger demand centers.

I don't need or want the DOF continuous update for wind - its initial target acquisition.

Ran a comp where they just say "targets at 235" - so you need to get out a compass, on the clock. Just hoped to integrate that part as a tiny number somewhere on screen of MARS

 

[SkyScrapin]

I don't need or want the DOF continuous update for wind - its initial target acquisition.

Ran a comp where they just say "targets at 235" - so you need to get out a compass, on the clock. Just hoped to integrate that part as a tiny number somewhere on screen of MARS

Right, I follow.

It’s a manual input at this point. It can be automated and likely will. Depends if and when it falls on the priority list.

Compass HW is already onboard.

 

[rlsmith1]

@264Charlie

I was on an email thread where the President of Envision replied directly to you with the details behind the update. It was a few months ago or more that they requested it back with overnight labels provided. Shoot me a PM or Text and I’ll reshare if you missed it.

You’re (and so do most) misusing the word TracIR as a blanket statement for disturbed reticle and HUD. It’s simply a legacy OASYS term.

MARS has iBeam rev B and D which means it absolutely supports passing information to connected devices such as thermals. MARS software has Pixels preloaded as example. Summarizing, it for sure does HUD and Disturbed reticle with devices that support it. It’s even in some new .gov contracts

Will the Mars speak to the Voodoo M then?

 

[264Charlie]

@264Charlie

I was on an email thread where the President of Envision replied directly to you with the details behind the update. It was a few months ago or more that they requested it back with overnight labels provided. Shoot me a PM or Text and I’ll reshare if you missed it.

You’re (and so do most) misusing the word TracIR as a blanket statement for disturbed reticle and HUD. It’s simply a legacy OASYS term.

MARS has iBeam rev B and D which means it absolutely supports passing information to connected devices such as thermals. MARS software has Pixels preloaded as example. Summarizing, it for sure does HUD and Disturbed reticle with devices that support it. It’s even in some new .gov contracts

Preston, sorry I misspoke; they did not say "improvements." It was a "reliability concern." No further details or release notes are available per my comms. I work in IT, so I am accustomed to releasing notes, allowing the user to decide if they want to upgrade when it requires downtime
I was specifically looking for support on UTM-X and UTC-XII, which is why I said TracIR, not iBeam.

 

[Buck Lawman]

Mine is due for an update but I have not sent it back yet. Not sure what they are updating as I have not be told anything more than “improvements”.

So far I’m happy with it outside of DOF, it will display cant via a bar, I’ll try and get a video up.

I do wish it had TracIR support.

Thanks for the info!

 

[SkyScrapin]

Will the Mars speak to the Voodoo M then?

Yes, we have them ordered,

Expecting cables to show up in Q1

Preston, sorry I misspoke; they did not say "improvements." It was a "reliability concern." No further details or release notes are available per my comms. I work in IT, so I am accustomed to releasing notes, allowing the user to decide if they want to upgrade when it requires downtime
I was specifically looking for support on UTM-X and UTC-XII, which is why I said TracIR, not iBeam.

Charles, all good, and understandable. Will give you a ring next week.

Tracking on your usage of TracIR. Thanks for the context. Short answer is, unlikely; long answer is, DoD isn’t actively pursuing Oasys program technology and thus it’s not a roadmapped item.

 

[SkyScrapin]

We have these on the shelf - finally!

MARS-Lc

MARS-Lc will begin shipping Summer of 2023. By purchasing this item, purchaser agrees to the lead time and Strictly Offensive Kit's no-refund policy. Please call before you order if you have questions: (214) 744-3589 Miniature Advanced Rangefinder System - Light commercial (MARS-Lc) MARS-Lc...

strictlyoffensivekit.com

 

[TheOtherAndrew]

I have some generally speaking [dumb] questions Im hoping for some input on:

1) "DONT overtorque 25inlb" - I get that its in ref to the MARS mount 'squishing/breaking' -
Q - does over tightening ~=~ changing the MARS unit between 3 guns/positions on a say 20x/yr basis (retorquing to say 22inlb tho every time). Is the integrity of the mount suspect to begin with so its like waiting to break thing or is it truly ONLY dependent on staying consistently below 25ibnlb?

2 rezero - after a break in period for the [sponginess of the mount] to level off - any words on repeatability of MARS zero given great gear and identical hookup?

3 ZERO lol - what is the quickest and least likely to induce excess MOE for zeroing the MARS - Ive read 25/100/900 but damn, seems excessive.

 

[MOUNTIC]

Just received mine from Preston (SOK) @SkyScrapin . What a sweet little unit. If you're on the fence give him a call. Super pumped on this thing.

 

[SkyScrapin]

I have some generally speaking [dumb] questions Im hoping for some input on:

1) "DONT overtorque 25inlb" - I get that its in ref to the MARS mount 'squishing/breaking' -
Q - does over tightening ~=~ changing the MARS unit between 3 guns/positions on a say 20x/yr basis (retorquing to say 22inlb tho every time). Is the integrity of the mount suspect to begin with so its like waiting to break thing or is it truly ONLY dependent on staying consistently below 25ibnlb?

2 rezero - after a break in period for the [sponginess of the mount] to level off - any words on repeatability of MARS zero given great gear and identical hookup?

3 ZERO lol - what is the quickest and least likely to induce excess MOE for zeroing the MARS - Ive read 25/100/900 but damn, seems excessive.

@TheOtherAndrew
1. Like scope rings, they're ensuring you don't over torque for the integrity of the bolt strength, and more importantly the amount of clamping force needed. You can switch between rifles as much as you like - I do
2. I'm not sure I track. The mount is metal and I have not found any amount of sponginess. They lock up tight ever time. I would always re-zero every time you move it due to the tolerances of diving boards used. They are not all created equal.
3. MOE? I zero on the furthest target I can or the most convenient. For me, that's a 900 yard water tower. You can mess with a parallel zero, but i'm not seeing the benefit of it if I'm zero'ing at 900 because the laser will have the exact same shift from 0-900y as it does from 900y-1800y in the other direction.

Preston

 

[SkyScrapin]

Just received mine from Preston (SOK) @SkyScrapin . What a sweet little unit. If you're on the fence give him a call. Super pumped on this thing.

Thanks Jake. Appreciate the kind words.

 

[Bravo6niner]

Sweet compact unit!!!

SOK is great to work with.

 

[rlsmith1]

Sweet compact unit!!!

SOK is great to work with.

@Conqueror looks like 20” cables are in style these days

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

@264Charlie do you have info where it's advertised for the mars to pull live wind from a kestrel and update on the fly as you get range and azimuth on targets down range?
Trust me I was hoping/expecting this unit to have it, especially for the price. My mars is shipping currently, it'll be an upgrade from my radius, but will it be a 10X price upgrade? Prob not.

MARS-Lc runs on the AB Ecosystem. So it should in theory connect to the Kestrel 5700s in the AB Ecosystem. Kestrels outside the AB Ecosystem combability cannot be ensured.

 

[carbonbased]

@Conqueror looks like 20” cables are in style these days

All the better to hang myself with lol

Wilcox, this is fucking ridiculous

Really Wilcox? A 20” long thick-ass cable with an 8” bend radius and no 90° plug because you didn’t ask Fischer to make one? You’re telling me not a single one of your beta testers upgraded from a Raptar and was like “yo, this new Ergocto cable is a dumpster fire?” I call bullshit. 😂 Now to...

www.snipershide.com

 

[Conqueror]

@Conqueror looks like 20” cables are in style these days

At least the MARS cable looks flexible! The Wilcox one is like a damn tree trunk lol.

 

[SkyScrapin]

Custom cable lengths can be had
20" cables offer up the most flexibility for mounting locations. Some guys run them at the 12 o'clock near the muzzle and can see their dope through the lower settings on LPVOs and MPVOs. Sort of like a HUD, but different.

 

[BurtG]

Short answer is, unlikely;

 

[SkyScrapin]

More in stock.

 

[SkyScrapin]

Pixels on Target, MARS cables just added to the website. Offers a Disturbed reticle and HUD with the Voodoo S and M like up

 

[BurtG]

Pixels on Target, MARS cables just added to the website. Offers a Disturbed reticle and HUD with the Voodoo S and M like up

Hiss xlr ?

 

[SkyScrapin]

Hiss xlr ?

Keep waiting

 

[BurtG]

Keep waiting

 

[Dogtown]

 

[rlsmith1]

Pixels on Target, MARS cables just added to the website. Offers a Disturbed reticle and HUD with the Voodoo S and M like up

Any videos we can check out? Sounds legit!!