I've been told here that such things are impossible to do during a match. Never mind that USPSA, IDPA, and the NRA all do it successfully.
But what do I know? LOL
- Thread starter vivdav
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I've been told here that such things are impossible to do during a match. Never mind that USPSA, IDPA, and the NRA all do it successfully.
But what do I know? LOL
Its much better to change results three days later.
Not sure why you don’t see how inefficient it is to check 8 rifles at the single most important match of the year.
The excuses are just that,
Ruger is Sponsoring the Rimfire Series for them, so clearly they want to make a good impression, I am sure it was a lot of money, probably a $50,000 price tag for that one too.
Ruger is Sponsoring the Rimfire Series for them, so clearly they want to make a good impression, I am sure it was a lot of money, probably a $50,000 price tag for that one too.
Helps marketing and advertising to have your new for 2021 rifle win the production class in 2020 too 
That was it?
I was discussing this with some friends when discussing traveling to Nebraska to shoot that Hunter match in February.
I wish you really could compete with an actual hunting rifle. You can't, it will be gamed all to hell, and the line will be filled with Match/Hunting chassis hybrids with ZCOs, ATACRs, and just a few ounces under the weight limit.
Production class is stupid except that you can now buy $2500 GAPs and MPAs, etc.
At this point, I'm shooting club matches in Laramie and Cody, maybe some Front Range stuff that piques my interest, and the Heart Mountain match Pete puts on.
I'm no longer willing to pay $300 to drive hours to watch the backstabbing and gaming that goes on at two day events.
I wish you really could compete with an actual hunting rifle. You can't, it will be gamed all to hell, and the line will be filled with Match/Hunting chassis hybrids with ZCOs, ATACRs, and just a few ounces under the weight limit.
Production class is stupid except that you can now buy $2500 GAPs and MPAs, etc.
At this point, I'm shooting club matches in Laramie and Cody, maybe some Front Range stuff that piques my interest, and the Heart Mountain match Pete puts on.
I'm no longer willing to pay $300 to drive hours to watch the backstabbing and gaming that goes on at two day events.
You can't limit a class by price, everything is expensive. Like it has been said, you have to limit the equipment and or shooter experience.
Matt may be newer in the rifle comps, but is/was a pro level archery shooter, as I was 20 years ago. Production class should be the largest# of competitors, just as Hunter class was years ago in the IBO for archery. Cater to your everyday guy and gal, they are the ones that will advance your sport to the next level.
Open/Pro: No weight limit, it would be fun to watch an idiot transition a 50lb rifle under time limits. Caliber restrictions I could see for the steel.
Limited: 20lb max at one time, 26" barrel
Hunter: 12lb max, 5 round mags, 15X max on scopes.
Senior: 55+ 12lb max. Extended stage time by maybe 10 more seconds.
Allison Zane: Just Allison, she hurts feelings, because she is that good and doesn't even realize it.
Matt may be newer in the rifle comps, but is/was a pro level archery shooter, as I was 20 years ago. Production class should be the largest# of competitors, just as Hunter class was years ago in the IBO for archery. Cater to your everyday guy and gal, they are the ones that will advance your sport to the next level.
Open/Pro: No weight limit, it would be fun to watch an idiot transition a 50lb rifle under time limits. Caliber restrictions I could see for the steel.
Limited: 20lb max at one time, 26" barrel
Hunter: 12lb max, 5 round mags, 15X max on scopes.
Senior: 55+ 12lb max. Extended stage time by maybe 10 more seconds.
Allison Zane: Just Allison, she hurts feelings, because she is that good and doesn't even realize it.
whats the weight limit?
Without looking again, it's 16 lbs and a power factor that includes 6.5CM IIRC.
My open class MPA with M24 profile 26" barrel and all the fixins' including a big ass ATACR 7-35X56 is 18.5lbs. lol
Very few people are dragging around 16lb rifles hunting elk, Mule Deer, or anything else you have to pack around to do.
I think the answer to production class, if the PRS wants to leave the amount of classes in place is really simple.
At the end of every season, compile a list of rifles and model numbers that fit the criteria the PRS and it's MD committee establish. Vote on said list of rifle and model numbers. When the vote is completed, that list of approved model numbers is what comprise the "Production Division" for the subsequent season. If your rifle is not on the list, you're an "Open Division" shooter.
Yes it's a lot more work up front the first year or two but the amount of drama, like this weekend's, it would prevent would be worth it.
If you want to cut down on the upfront work, ask manufacturers to submit their rifles for approval.
At the end of every season, compile a list of rifles and model numbers that fit the criteria the PRS and it's MD committee establish. Vote on said list of rifle and model numbers. When the vote is completed, that list of approved model numbers is what comprise the "Production Division" for the subsequent season. If your rifle is not on the list, you're an "Open Division" shooter.
Yes it's a lot more work up front the first year or two but the amount of drama, like this weekend's, it would prevent would be worth it.
If you want to cut down on the upfront work, ask manufacturers to submit their rifles for approval.
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More or less. The rest of the rifles only have a speed limit and that’s just to protect the steel. Running 3300 won’t help you in this game.
ironically....the same person who created this $2,500 limit for PRS Production rifles
all roads lead back to him
You mean like USPSA?
LOL
The playbook is already written. It just needed some tweaks to fit.
@308pirate I've never shot USPSA so I would be way out of my lane commenting on how they do things.
Basically they have a approved, manufacture-submitted list of guns with a minimum amount of manufacture to play in Production class.
Sounds easy enough to implement to me
this is short term money from niche divisions - to make it long term and increase revenue, the bazillion hunters need to be focused on and converted. With that approach other companies and divisions not remotely interested the PRS today will become fans.
What I don’t understand is as an organization why wouldn’t you look at other shooting sports organizations and take the good and implement it? Is it laziness? Ego? Just seems like the drama is always something that should have been thought of long before a single round was ever loaded into a mag. Safety and division issues should never be an issue.
Ego.
In general there’s a lot of people in PRS type shooting who believe they know more than the other disciplines that have been around much longer.
That goes for shooters and organizations. We are 10yrs behind most things. Be it hand loading or running an organization.
This last statement isn’t directed at a particular person or organization as I’ve seen the behavior all over:
Real leaders admit when they are wrong and they almost always shoulder the blame even when it wasn’t actually them. It starts from the top down and you’re responsible for all of it.
This industry is littered with “it’s not my fault.”
And 10x behind the size of those other sports. Growing or not. This sport dwarfs the other normal ones in cost. Glock for SSP/Production $600 ready to go. Thats less than 1 barrel which doesn't even last a season
We could all buy a full open rig for the cost of one PRS production rifle. And another one for the cost of accessories. And 30k rounds of ammo for a season of PRS ammo
We could all buy a full open rig for the cost of one PRS production rifle. And another one for the cost of accessories. And 30k rounds of ammo for a season of PRS ammo
It was basically a comment about the idiocy of all these new shooting "sports" who do zero fucking research on best practices employed in similar pursuits.
The fact that lighting one off by mistake is still not a universal match DQ in every single PRS match blows my fucking mind.
That's all I'll say about that........
I don't understand the suggestions where limits progress upwards as you go from beginner to pro level. Open class should be 10 lbs maximum with optics and bipod/sling, and mandatory 30 caliber. I mean, are you a good shot or not?
Helps marketing and advertising to have your new for 2021 rifle win the production class in 2020 too
Somehow people didn’t hear Doug/Ruger did the exact same thing last year for 2019 finale, magically listing the 26 inch heavy barrel creed version that no one else could get (that he had also been shooting most of the year without it on ruger’s website) right before the finale.
there was just as much shady shit then as there is now, it’s not a fluke
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You know what I finally figured it out. If an organization is only after the current money; fuck it, the PRO class can only shoot Production class with stickers everywhere and pants that match the jersey. Jerseys can fly high, manufacturer's niche departments can be happy, and we all move forward. By the current logic, we'll all be so inspired to get a production rifle, soon sell our customs to join this "inspirational" class.
No need to try to get 80% of the market into PRS; hunters and casual range shooters don’t matter, who cares about math or economics
By the way, I’m a match shooter and a hunter!
No need to try to get 80% of the market into PRS; hunters and casual range shooters don’t matter, who cares about math or economics
By the way, I’m a match shooter and a hunter!
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I guess it really is always about money. Shit
what a cluster
I shoot these type of matches to have fun and enjoy the company while trying to improve and learn, not the drama.
Absolutely should have been all handled BEFORE the match. There is no excuse to cause a shitshow after the fact. If it was such a big deal, the shooter should have been told his gun of choice would be in Open class and had the chance to use a different rifle and he still would have kicked ass. Oh well, sucks it's a shitshow but they stepped in it it sounds like.
it would have been a non-issue if he got second
I put $5 on that, all day, every day.
it's because he smashed the competition, like he's been doing all year.
Wouldn't the point of a production rifle be so that others can compete using the same rifle, at the same time? That's without even arguing if it being a prototype (you know it wasn't one of the first 13 off the actual production line) is truly a production rifle.
The actual point as it sits is for manufacturers to showcase their cheaper rifles.
If it was for any other reason or even the reason stated in their rules, there would be more than like 8 people shooting it and their wouldn’t be this type of drama over something so trivial.
Hi,
So can we start a thread to discuss the fixes and a community generated "going forward" plan that grows our sport before attempting to grow the industry?
IF we grow the sport, the industry grows from it within itself. Attempting to grow the industry first just does not work out....and I am industry, lol.
Sincerely,
Theis
So can we start a thread to discuss the fixes and a community generated "going forward" plan that grows our sport before attempting to grow the industry?
IF we grow the sport, the industry grows from it within itself. Attempting to grow the industry first just does not work out....and I am industry, lol.
Sincerely,
Theis
Yes please
Do it. I’ll sticky it.
the sport grows outside of NRL/PRS/CD/RTC thank goodness
is there overlap between ranges and MDs? yes sometimes.
I like how their statement says that twenty something MDs voted on it and agreed with the outcome. As if there isn’t a conflict of interest. As If the series doesn’t already strong arm them into the types of events they can hold.
The way I read it for the new NRL hunter series is based off the Hornady Precision Hunter Steel Challege rules. 12# light hunter, 16# heavy hunter. This includes everything you can use attached to the rifle during the match. Bipods, suppressors, weights, etc. I’ve seen some contradictory listings as to whether an empty mag counts toward the weight limit. You can’t weigh in, then attach a 2# plate at the first stage. And yes you have to carry your pack and tripod the whole match.
I’m very interested in this series as I am a hunter, and mostly use PRS matches to make me a more efficient LR hunter anyway. My current PRS rifle weighs 15#12oz in 6.5 CM shooting factory ammo. I never bought into the super heavy impractical rifles to begin with.
I just wish we had more of these matches in the SE. They have one in TN, which I plan on shooting. I’m dismayed with the stranglehold PRS has on the Southeast. I’ve mentioned before that I truly enjoyed when we had “outlaw” matches around here. Then they decided to make them PRS “sanctioned” matches and doubled the match fee. But the matches were the exact same. The vast majority of the people shooting these matches don’t give a shit about PRS points.
From the NRL Hunter website:
What is the weight limit included? The weight limit for each class includes everything mounted to your rifle except for your magazine and ammunition. This includes scope, bipod, sling, or any other attachment that you wish to use on your rifle during the match.
***********
Suppressor and muzzle devices are included in the weight as well.
So basically everything but loaded mag.
What is the weight limit included? The weight limit for each class includes everything mounted to your rifle except for your magazine and ammunition. This includes scope, bipod, sling, or any other attachment that you wish to use on your rifle during the match.
***********
Suppressor and muzzle devices are included in the weight as well.
So basically everything but loaded mag.
Interesting that answer conflicts with the description of what they consider a rifle.
If anyone is interested, I’ll be making 8# tungsten magazine base plates and selling them out of a windowless panel van at all NRL matches.
As a newish shooter I started this thread because of a genuine interest in the year end best of the best competition. Unfortunately it seems it has devolved into a pro wrestling like fiasco for the production class. I get it... nothing but a money grab. I signed up for my first PRS national event in Navasota but now wonder if I really want to. I signed up because I wanted to get better and compete. The reality is I do not have a chance of winning but I definitely will get better and learn from shooters that are much better than me. I wonder if I would be better off continuing with local matches and learning from some national level local competitors. I can shoot 6 to 8 local matches for the cost of one national match put on by PRS. Curious where it is all headed......
I would still continue with your plans and shoot the match. You will learn a lot regardless of the internal drama. Good luck!
Definitely continue with your matxh plans. It will be a learning experience if nothing else. I think the third match i shot was a two day. Its different than a local one day for sure. I always think the same way no chance of winning it but eager to learn. In my area there are a few pros that are going to start production class for what ever reason. Not sure why but i will keep doing me until i get better at it and then will continue to do me if i move to open. Dont pay any attention to the drama internally. Just go shoot and have fun and learn
Dude don’t be dissuaded, every thread here has a mind of its own and often goes a different direction than the TS intended. A lot of guys including myself complain about PRS but at the end of the day I’m addicted. I 100% say do a pro level match, I learned more from one pro match this year than I did the 5 one day matches I made it to. Just so happened it was an AG cup match to boot so it was especially challenging. I went back to my range with a clear picture of what I needed to practice!
Excellent advice and will plan on going. The learning curve is definitely straight up these days. I need some classes and more practice. DFAT sounds like a great way to dry practice. Just hope the drama subsides
Every single shooting organization has drama, it is certainly not the first and will not be the last. That is the territory of competition where people WANT to win, all the way from any local club matches to Olympic Biathlon.
Successful shooting sport organizations such as USPSA and IDPA have been through these types of situations. Both have been around a lot longer than PRS.
The common thing that keep these sports going and growing is being open and accessible to new shooters and keeping the dedicated competitor happy with competitive equity.
1. Clearly defined Division based on equipment type and features, not arbitrary dollar values. Caliber, mag capacity, weight, compensators and so on.
2. Shooter classification. Gives every skill level a chance to win against their class and see how they stack up against the rest of the field.
For PRS style shooting I like the idea of weight limits. Not sure what to make the weights but I think open, practical, and hunter make the most sense for divisions.
The common thing that keep these sports going and growing is being open and accessible to new shooters and keeping the dedicated competitor happy with competitive equity.
1. Clearly defined Division based on equipment type and features, not arbitrary dollar values. Caliber, mag capacity, weight, compensators and so on.
2. Shooter classification. Gives every skill level a chance to win against their class and see how they stack up against the rest of the field.
For PRS style shooting I like the idea of weight limits. Not sure what to make the weights but I think open, practical, and hunter make the most sense for divisions.
This topic of discussion came up in last night's podcast episode. Something has got to change. Im sure i ruffled some feathers but, i dont really give a shit. We are going to be holding some 1 day matches that dont fit the mold and won't be affiliated with any series and will have cash prizes.
Which podcast? I follow a few.
Episode 31: PRS Finale AAR and Finale Drama | Just Fn Send It Podcast
Jeff is back from the finale, of course, and we talk about his experience there. Along with that, we discuss the PRS drama, plans for Pactolus Precision, and a whole bunch of other shit. Jeff needs to get a new microphone. His volume records much lower than mine, so sorry for that. Great...
davidbakergli.podbean.com 
Sure there is plenty of drama in this sport, but I haven't ever competed in anything that didn't have drama at the end of the day.
Shooting it still fun!
I started shooting production this year because it seemed like a great way to get started. I probably should move up to "open" now but I am feeling slightly motivated to stay in the Production division.
Stay the course, go shoot that 2 day national match!
I shot my first match about 9 months ago, and absolutely got crushed! That match taught me what I needed to work, I went home, started working on those things, and was able to drastically improve for my next match a few weeks later.
Good luck at the match, forget about the drama, and you'll have an awesome time!
Shoot Straight
Matt Alwine
