If you want a real challenge build a 22 hornet. Its a reloaders dream you are constantly searching for load that shoots good and .10 grain increments are huge change in velocity and accuracy.
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I know a guy running 22 saum lol
LOL 70gr solids over 4k fps.
I bet it fucks shit up, including the barrel's throat.
I currently have a 22-250 pretty well on its last leg, I am thinking of getting a fast twist barrel ( 1-8 ) in 22-250 again, I want to shoot 69-75 gr bullets and I have everything I need except a new barrel, a winter project I believe !!!
Reloader's dream or nightmare?
I want something a little less fussy and more forgiving. That is part of the reason I like 6BR - its pretty hard to find a load that don't work well.
Vote straight 223 with throat that uses all your magazine length with your longest projectile.
The Birth Of The .220 REDLINE – Coyote Stuff
coyotestuff.com The easy answer is the wylde chambering with its .062 freebore. Its basically the perfect 223 compromise unless youre trying to shoot the 90-95 sierras which are much better in a much longer throat.
Mine shooting 77 SMK's hangs right with my 6.5 CM to 600.
The Birth Of The .220 REDLINE – Coyote Stuff
The easy answer is the wylde chambering with its .062 freebore. Its basically the perfect 223 compromise unless youre trying to shoot the 90-95 sierras which are much better in a much longer throat.
Good to know.
I have been looking at barrel options and noticed a 223 Wylde offering so that would work well.
I dont plan to shoot anything that heavy (75gr & 77gr is what I am thinking as I have a ton on hand) so it would fit nicely.
The wylde is a perfect match for that bullet weight. Get it in at least an 8 twist, I did 7 myself since it wont hurt anything, and itll be smooth sailing to 1k with it if you want.
Twist rate was going to be my next question, I was thinking 7 or 8 (both are offered by the barrel manufacturer I'm looking at), leaning towards 7 twist. 7.5 would be a good compromise but I dont think they offer that (I could pick up a barrel elsewhere I suppose).
I just looked at bullet availability & pricing (I currently have a good stash of both 75gr Hornady & 77gr Sierra).
Looks like the Sierra are quite a bit pricier (I jumped on mine when they were on offer) so the best bet moving forward is 75gr Hornady BTHPs - cost (Canadian $):
Hornady 75gr BTHP / 1000 ~$320
Sierra 77gr HPBT / 1000 ~ $440
Interestingly the 95gr Sierras would cost almost the same as 105gr hybrids for my 6BR and I feel that I'd need more HP than a 223 could give to take full advantage of them anyways.
No valkyrie?
I have always loved the 22, have had and still have a couple. I have a 22-250, my first custom-ish build with a 1:7. It shoots 90gr bergers like nobodies business. RL26 pits them right at 3020fps, have several groups under 1/2moa at 800yds. Worst part is 22-250 feeds like dogshit out of a mag for me. I could probably have more success with an aw mag, but I'm hesitant to commit to hogging the bottom of my action out to accommodate it.
I have always loved the 22, have had and still have a couple. I have a 22-250, my first custom-ish build with a 1:7. It shoots 90gr bergers like nobodies business. RL26 pits them right at 3020fps, have several groups under 1/2moa at 800yds. Worst part is 22-250 feeds like dogshit out of a mag for me. I could probably have more success with an aw mag, but I'm hesitant to commit to hogging the bottom of my action out to accommodate it.
I'd go 8 twist. I have a 20" 9 twist 5R, and it stabilizes 80 eld-m's and 80.5 Bergers out to 1K.
What cartridge and MVs?
I have a 9 twist 223 with a 26" barrel that will stabilize 77s but haven't committed to to buying heavier stuff. I'm afraid it won't shoot them and then I'll be stuck with bullets I can't use.
^It's a Savage 223 Stealth Evo - not sure if they chamber their models differently, but COAL's 15 off are: 75 eld-m's 2.388, 80 eld-m's 2.396, running 2725-2750 fps.
I went with a 223ai for my varminting/plinking inside 600yds build. (just waiting on a ShortBus paint job now)
I wanted to run the 75gn bullet class with little fuss. And honestly would have been happy with traditional 223 rem but I worried about getting the hotter 75gn rounds stuffed into a Ar15 and creating a bad situation.
Hopefully the 223ai will be different enough to give pause if the gf happens to grab the wrong Ammo. The added speed is just a bonus. Coyotes/pdogs/paper/steel won’t know the difference.
I wanted to run the 75gn bullet class with little fuss. And honestly would have been happy with traditional 223 rem but I worried about getting the hotter 75gn rounds stuffed into a Ar15 and creating a bad situation.
Hopefully the 223ai will be different enough to give pause if the gf happens to grab the wrong Ammo. The added speed is just a bonus. Coyotes/pdogs/paper/steel won’t know the difference.
I would suggest going 1:7.5 or 1:7 twist. I made the mistake of going 1:10 twist on my first build for 69 gr bullets. Had a hard time finding 69-70 bullets I wanted to use and couldnt step up to 75+ grains. 1:7 twist and you can shoot anything up to 95 grain. I’m running 88-90 grain bullets now. I wouldnt want to limit myseld again on bullet selection by having too slow of a twist rate. My 2 cents….may be worthless to you. You may have a solid reason for selecting the 1:8 twist.
Over the summer I built a 6 Sherman short tactical…6SST…109 hybrids at 3585fps…I’d have to look back but pretty sure I had 105s at 3680-3700…only ran these speeds for 50-60 rounds of each…at 175-200 rounds it started blowing bullets up.
had to dropped speeds to 3300ish and at around 358 rounds it was blowing up bullets and quit shooting…chunks missing off the lands and fire cracking 12” into the barrel…
but man was it fun!!
Why not just step up to a 26”?
Wow, I was about to order a 6SST, figured I could run jacketed @ 3250 and leave solids for warp 7, but if I'm going to eat barrels in 350 rounds... f-that!
yeah almost 60g of powder through a 6mm hole equates to VERY short barrel life....i shot a 6creed a couple years ago with 105s at 3220....every 50-60ish rounds after the first 100 or so took another .005 off the lands at 850 rounds it quit shooting and had eroded between .050 and .060 off the lands and fire cracked 9-10" into the barrel.
if you want to do an SST id suggest you do a 6.5 or 7mm...if you ran a 6.5 at 3150-3200 i think you could get 1000 MAYBE 1500ish out of it and a 7mm i bet 1500+ depending on your accuracy expectations...i shot a 6.5SST around the same time as the 6...again id have to look back but im pretty sure i was running 130 hybrids at 3250 and that was on cruse control...i put over 400 rounds through that barrel before i pulled it and it would still shoot under a 1/2" at 100yds.
i love these hot rod cartridges and if i had the money id run one all the time but 4-5 barrels a year gets expensive.
Thanks, I have a 6.5 Max already
- maybe barrel will be toast by the time I finish load development!If you are going to build on a custom action, have you considered .224 valkyrie, throated to take advantage of the extra room?
I built a .22 Nosler as a fun gun, it does not feed well when you have more than 5 rounds in the mag, even the 6.8/.224/.22 nos mag I bought.
However, I get very good velocities, it was throated long so I could seat the bullets out to mag length.
80 grain bullets at 3100 is pretty easy.
The .224 would be just a bit behind, but components would be easier to source and you wouldn't have to worry about the rebated rim.
Not nearly the barrel burner as some of the other cartridges mentioned, you don't have to fireform brass like you do with the .223AI.
I'd run a 6.5 twist for the heavies.
I built a .22 Nosler as a fun gun, it does not feed well when you have more than 5 rounds in the mag, even the 6.8/.224/.22 nos mag I bought.
However, I get very good velocities, it was throated long so I could seat the bullets out to mag length.
80 grain bullets at 3100 is pretty easy.
The .224 would be just a bit behind, but components would be easier to source and you wouldn't have to worry about the rebated rim.
Not nearly the barrel burner as some of the other cartridges mentioned, you don't have to fireform brass like you do with the .223AI.
I'd run a 6.5 twist for the heavies.
I just had a 223 barrel made for my Zeus so far I’m really happy with it. Definitely saves powder and with the 80eld the dope is pretty close to my 6.5.
I have looked and looked at the 224valk or 22 grendel several times for a bolt rifle. I have never been able to get past the fact you get almost nothing over the 223ai. Plus if you are a reloaded the 22br brings SO much more to the table....
Now the one exception is in the howa mini or cz527.... I think a 22 grendel with a 16.1" 1:10 barrel, built to be light would make an AMAZING coyote gun. One is on my list to build.
Understood, but you wouldn't have to fireform
I never understood the fire form problem. I have done thousands of 223 to 223ai and never had any issues.
its just an extra step, wasted powder, wasted projectile, wasted primer
I guess it really depends on what you are fireforming and what you consider a waste.
I definitely would not consider fireforming my 6BRA a waste. It's essentially a 6BR first shooting - and my FF load has been insanely precise. I would have zero problems shooting my 6BRA FF loads in a match. I would definitely not consider those rounds a waste.
Yeah my 223 to 223ai loads are either training or local match loads. Definitely get something put of them. Now on the bigger speed demons that eat barrels ff can be a loss.... but no one should build those with out understanding barrel are expendable..
I have a custom brx that I shoot and I have to fire form using the cream of wheat method.... now that is a "waist" of primer and powder. But the ends make
It worth it for me.
I have a custom brx that I shoot and I have to fire form using the cream of wheat method.... now that is a "waist" of primer and powder. But the ends make
It worth it for me.
As others have said not actually a waste per say plus you should have a 100ish rounds through just about any new barrel before you actually start load development any way as that’s about where a barrel speeds up and starts to settle
Anyone know if a 7 or 8 twist is too much for 55gr bullets?
I have a ton of cheap plinking 55gr bullets that I use for 3 gun and got to thinking that I may want to try them in my bolt gun at some point.
I have a ton of cheap plinking 55gr bullets that I use for 3 gun and got to thinking that I may want to try them in my bolt gun at some point.
Milspec 5.56 barrels are 1:7 and they push the 55 past 3200FPS.
I've shot them in my bolt gun but they aren't that accurate compared to a match bullet.
I haven't researched it thoroughly, but the Valkyrie did cross my mind as a build b/c brass can be found.
If the Valkyrie offers nothing or next to nothing over the 223ai, where does it fall when loading 80gr bullets compared to a regular 223? 100 fps faster? or is it close than that?
Thank you
Yep about a 100ish faster. The reason a Valk shines in an AR is.you have to shove match bullets so far into 223 for them to work in the mag. You loose alot of case cap. A bolt gun doesn't have this problem. There is a reason high power guys single feed.
Look and how many bolt guns are made in Valk vs 223. Not many. Most people go 223 and if they want more fps they step up to 22-250....
I think there is another to consider, going in quite the other direction. The .221 Fireball. Small, very miserly with the powder and with a fast twist barrel can even shoot the heavies. No recoil, and not much noise.
We have been shooting a couple of Fireballs in XP-100’s. One is stock (since sold) and one is a full on custom. Though I must admit, it is not real happy shooting 80 grain Berger VLD’s it shoots them accurate and with enough momentum to take down 65 pound Rams at 200 meters. It loves 69 grain Sierra’s.
We use a 15 inch barrel and I suspect a 20 barrel would do nothing but enhance all of its qualities. Then add a suppressor and it would be a fun gun that would be just perfect out to 400 yards.
We have been shooting a couple of Fireballs in XP-100’s. One is stock (since sold) and one is a full on custom. Though I must admit, it is not real happy shooting 80 grain Berger VLD’s it shoots them accurate and with enough momentum to take down 65 pound Rams at 200 meters. It loves 69 grain Sierra’s.
We use a 15 inch barrel and I suspect a 20 barrel would do nothing but enhance all of its qualities. Then add a suppressor and it would be a fun gun that would be just perfect out to 400 yards.
Attachments
221 fireball is a cool case.... finding brass is fun... and making it out of 223 is even more fun!
what powder for heavier bullets on the 221?
let's say a 60gr vmax and then 75gr eld?
let's say a 60gr vmax and then 75gr eld?
Been there, found that turning the necks never worked to my satisfaction and the cases I was using almost always seemed to be within spec before I turned them. However, the ease of making 300 Whisper/Blackout cases from .223, using expensive Fireball cases no longer a consideration.
Yeah little sarcasm in that post.... I have done the whole 223 to 221 to 20vt with turn neck...... yeah that is a LOT of work....
My mentor once told me their are two types of people those that reload to shoot more and those that shoot to reload more.
Some of these cases are very work involved....
My mentor once told me their are two types of people those that reload to shoot more and those that shoot to reload more.
Some of these cases are very work involved....
I believe it, I know the 55gr bullets that I have are far from match but I do fancy trying to push them at the higher speeds mentioned to see what happens
If I did buy a twist that was too aggressive for them what would happen? I'm guessing they would disintegrate from the excessive RPM (I haven't ever seen that for myself but I have heard about it)?
You’re not gonna spin bullets apart with a 223, a 7 twist works fine with them.I believe it, I know the 55gr bullets that I have are far from match but I do fancy trying to push them at the higher speeds mentioned to see what happens
If I did buy a twist that was too aggressive for them what would happen? I'm guessing they would disintegrate from the excessive RPM (I haven't ever seen that for myself but I have heard about it)?
I have used
As reported, the 69 grain Sierra shot great with no issues at all. 75 grain ELD’s might be pushing it but I was shooting bullets in the 80 to 90 grain range. The little case jsut was not real happy starting that much bullet into that fast twist.
So
Be Real Careful.
IMR 4227 and never had a problem. If one decides to go with very heavy bullets in the Fireball, The Fireball goes super critical very quickly. The load density between not enough (to properly cause the case to expand and grab the chamber) and too much (Very sticky extraction and excessively flattened primers) was 0.3 grains.
As reported, the 69 grain Sierra shot great with no issues at all. 75 grain ELD’s might be pushing it but I was shooting bullets in the 80 to 90 grain range. The little case jsut was not real happy starting that much bullet into that fast twist.
So
Be Real Careful.
IME I found my 223AI project using 88's to be a waist of $ compared to just sticking with and shooting my 6mmBR. Wish I had not spent the time and money on the 223AI and taken that $$$$ to buy components for the 6mmBR instead.
Unfortunately I started having 88gr bullets blowing up with my 223AI using a 7 twist so I had to go to 75gr instead which wasn't why I built the rifle.
IMHO the "6mm"BR family is so good that its very hard for me to consider anything else anymore for sub 1000Y!
Most of the cartridges mentioned typically will not approach the "6mm"BR family in low ES, outright precision, barrel life, or ease of tune. Those attributes make life so much easier!
I remember being disgusted that my 6x47L barrels were losing velocity by 1200 rounds, lol. I'm glad I won't have to think about getting another barrel for my 6mmBR for about twice that amount!
Yeah 6mmBR is boring but that's part of the joy as well, a no screwing around get the job done cartridge!
I'm getting OT but my 20 FBI which is a 20VT AI, is the coolest "little" trouble free cartridge I've messed with. Pretty easy hitting a 1' plate at 500Y with 32's at 3750 fps even though those bullets only have a .210 BC. I thought about doing another gun using 55's for the fun of it but - 6mmBR is too easy.
It's very unlike a 22 hornet, very easy to find a load for, it reminds me of a mini 6mmBR, actually probably more like a 6mmBRA.
It's very unlike a 22 hornet, very easy to find a load for, it reminds me of a mini 6mmBR, actually probably more like a 6mmBRA.
