Recently put a 22 Nosler on a AR15 Lower without changing the Buffer and my Brass is being gouged on the base and the ejector is leaving the rim rough. So I'm thinking I need a heavier buffer to correct the problem, would I be on the right track? BTW it's a 18" SS barrel and the receiver has a side charging handle.
- Thread starter Capt45
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Ejector or Extractor leaving the rim rough?
Picture of brass base?
Adjustable gas block?
Picture of brass base?
Adjustable gas block?
Answer to One; yes
What I have is a Stoner complete upper with a non adjustable gas block and that's a side charging upper.
And here's a pic:
At this point I think I have a over gas situation and possibly a buffer that's to light.
What I have is a Stoner complete upper with a non adjustable gas block and that's a side charging upper.
And here's a pic:
At this point I think I have a over gas situation and possibly a buffer that's to light.
Those are ejector swipes from pressure. One looks like a pierced primer also.
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I gave up on my 22 Nosler. It destroyed brass and I had an SLR adjustable gas block, heavy buffer, and heavy weight buffer spring. Tried Nosler and Dogtown brass. Load was pretty mild from the Nosler data. I was running 26 grains of RL15 and 77 SMKs.
A heavier buffer will not help with the pressure. If you are over pressure, you are over pressure. But, overgassing can "appear" as pressure signs on semi auto brass. And, yes, that looks like a pierced primer on the lower right.
Its chamber pressure, not gas system pressure.
Your brass is flowing into the ejector hole under pressure.
Your brass is flowing into the ejector hole under pressure.
Are these reloads?
What does the book say for charge weight?
What is your charge weight that you dropped in these cases?
Going to try BL-C2 @ 29gr next to see if the signs disappear.
Nosler reload data shows 29 ~ 31 gr of BL-C2 with a 62 gr bullet. I loaded 30 gr.
What was the Varget charge weight compared to what the book says?
Start low and work up. Im not sure where your at, but its hot out and that can cause pressure spikes.
29 gr with 55gr bullet.
My load was taken from Nosler Load Data for a 62 gr bullet. That lists BL-c2 from 29~31gr.; I loaded @ 29 gr.
FWIW... BLC-2 has always been spooky at MAX'ish charge weights for me... and it doesn't like higher ambient temperatures. Frankly, I don't use it anymore.
It might be the BLC-2 powder.
You have a lot of brass flow going on... into the ejector hole. And up against the back of the extractor claw.
I suggest you consider a quality Adj. GB as well. ... limiting gas volume used to extract , allows a slightly lower chamber pressure during extraction via the delay involved.
And, IMHO, a heavier buffer weight / recoil spring also "delays" the unlocking of the bolt... also allowing extraction at a lower chamber pressure.
What exactly do you mean? I've been reloading since 1974, rifle and pistol. If you care to bleat out any HELPFUL information I'm willing to learn.
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The topic has been covered before but the Nosler and Dogtown options, of which are the only two for this caliber have been known to be extremely soft. I was tearing brass apart like it was max plus charged and I was barely at the minimum WITH an SLR adjustable gas block. Some guys have had success going the Nosgar route for brass. It takes the rebated head away and gives more case head to recoil back on. If you haven’t looked that option up, you might want to and see what guys are doing.
Well, you don’t seem to understand the difference between gas system pressure and chamber pressure, or why you might start with a low powder charge and work up to the max load for your rifle. Or, or, or. But, whatever. Not my gun. Not my problem. I’d like to say “hope you get it sorted out” but I really don’t fucking care.
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Splain it time me then cause I’m still not sure why my 22 Nosler sucked ball sacks with all the tuning I did.
Sorry Rooster; that was a bit of sarcasm on my part. He seemed to think that I didn't know squat about reloading. I did everything I knew to do starting with cleaning; full length resizing and measuring each piece of brass to make sure it was within SAAMI including case gauging; weigh'd EACH pwd charge, loaded to a mid-range of pwd and seated with a light crimp. OAL was maintained within .002 ~ .005" of my goal of 2.260. I checked with a dummy round made using the steps above AFTER using a sharpie to make sure I WASN'T on the Lands, then proceeded to load 10 rounds to test. Pretty much got the message after the first 5. At any rate I'm back to the bench with IMR 4064 to see if it is more stable. From other posts here and on other sites it appears my choice of BL-C2 wasn't the best as far as being a stable pwd in heated situations. It was 95°'s when I was shooting. I like the 22 Nosler, just have to make it like me.
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oh definitely not your bad, I just didn’t see anything of real help that would have salvaged my 22 Nosler attempt from some of the replies either. I stuck with RL15 but wasn’t even close to max charge and even went .2 below on some to see where it went. I used every setting on my AGB and changed buffer and buffer spring weights. Checked seating depth with a hornady OAL gauge with modified case. Micro adjuster on my seating die to make sure I was consistent in seating. I used an auto trickler for powder throwing, but dumped any that went over. I verified my scale setting with a separate hornady scale to verify correct charge weight during setup.
I completely destroyed my first set of Nosler branded cases during load setup and rifle tuning. I bought a round of Dogtown and did one firing on them before I gave up. The dogtown all had minor swipe marks and some ejector imprint marks with 26.5 grains of RL15, which is the lowest printed load charge from Nosler. I wanted the cartridge to work for me, but In the end, I had a 223 barrel spun up and swapped. Maybe you will find a sweet spot and have good luck with it indeed.
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Try it with NO GAS. Move the gas block.
If it then looks like over pressure, it is over pressure.
If it then looks like over pressure, it is over pressure.
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Went from no gas to bleed off mode. Messed with seating depth. Never got mine to play nice so I scrapped it. Shot great but wasn’t worth tearing brass up consistently
Sorry your 22N didn't work out for you Rooster.
You didn't have one of those Midway barrels, did you?
I have a few different brands and my favorite is a 28" bull barrel with NO gas port.
6 fairly heavy firings and I start losing pockets.
You didn't have one of those Midway barrels, did you?
I have a few different brands and my favorite is a 28" bull barrel with NO gas port.
6 fairly heavy firings and I start losing pockets.
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It was a midway barrel. Don’t get me wrong, it would shoot 77g SMKs fantastic. The aftermath on the brass was my issue. I shot it all the way out to 600 yards on many occasions and it always performed if I did my part. I really wanted it to work as well. Luck has it though, I ran into a bartlein heavy service contour blank and a very competent gunsmith to turn it. I’m ok with the change and I still get to shoot my boxes of 77g projectiles.
Windy as Hell here today and temps ↑93° so I didn't shoot the new loads with IMR 4064 and 62 gr bullets. Maybe tomorrow.
Did it all in terms of brass prep; cleaned, FL sized/measured + all fit the case gauge; primer pockets made uniform and flash hole reamed. Pwd charges ALL metered and bullets seated to 2.260 + or - .010". Bolt taken down and sonic cleaned and ready to go.
Did it all in terms of brass prep; cleaned, FL sized/measured + all fit the case gauge; primer pockets made uniform and flash hole reamed. Pwd charges ALL metered and bullets seated to 2.260 + or - .010". Bolt taken down and sonic cleaned and ready to go.
I don’t know about the fix, but the timing is off
the round is being extracted while pressured/ brass has not cooled and contracted a bit.
As you reload, an adjustable gas block is an easy fix
light loads/ heavy loads/ light projectiles/ heavy/ fast burning powder/ slow burning powder- you can treat it like a FAL and adjust the gas down so the brass piles in the correct spot.
TULA was not working in some ARs as the powder was too fast and the guns had cycling issues.
My guess is that you can find a bullet and powder that runs well with the stock buffer.
even a super heavy buffer does not solve the issue of too much gas forcing things open too fast. It does slightly slow the initial bolt movement, it seems like the Rick Braun fix would be a different load/ bullet to work in an AR or an adjustable gas block so any load would work
I am often wrong but is the BLC powder a ball powder? If you have a longer grain extruded powder, I would be tempted to see how that works.
it takes longer to build up pressure and might run better with the platform
just a guess based upon some of the issues I’ve seen with 5.56
the round is being extracted while pressured/ brass has not cooled and contracted a bit.
As you reload, an adjustable gas block is an easy fix
light loads/ heavy loads/ light projectiles/ heavy/ fast burning powder/ slow burning powder- you can treat it like a FAL and adjust the gas down so the brass piles in the correct spot.
TULA was not working in some ARs as the powder was too fast and the guns had cycling issues.
My guess is that you can find a bullet and powder that runs well with the stock buffer.
even a super heavy buffer does not solve the issue of too much gas forcing things open too fast. It does slightly slow the initial bolt movement, it seems like the Rick Braun fix would be a different load/ bullet to work in an AR or an adjustable gas block so any load would work
I am often wrong but is the BLC powder a ball powder? If you have a longer grain extruded powder, I would be tempted to see how that works.
it takes longer to build up pressure and might run better with the platform
just a guess based upon some of the issues I’ve seen with 5.56
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With the sharp ring on the ejector mark, not a swipe I think we have pressure.
Even an adjustable gas block turned down can pass gas.
I have two barrels I turned the block around and one that doesn't even have a gas port.
My interest is F-Class paper @ 600 (slow fire prone), and one day post COVID @ 1000
With the reduced head contact area with the rebated rim the lower 22N pressure (55k) compared to the same contact area with a 5.56 (62k) I get very slight marks. But, most of my shooting is with 80, 88, and 95 gr bullets using a slower IMR4350 or more recently SB6.5. I have used CFE223 which is similar to BL(C)-2 for lighter bullets.
I've shot the HAGAR (Nosgar) brass with a 6.8 bolt but with the reduced capacity have not developed a good load yet.
I bought the LAST 300 cases from the previous Hornady run. Saving them for later.
Even an adjustable gas block turned down can pass gas.
I have two barrels I turned the block around and one that doesn't even have a gas port.
My interest is F-Class paper @ 600 (slow fire prone), and one day post COVID @ 1000
With the reduced head contact area with the rebated rim the lower 22N pressure (55k) compared to the same contact area with a 5.56 (62k) I get very slight marks. But, most of my shooting is with 80, 88, and 95 gr bullets using a slower IMR4350 or more recently SB6.5. I have used CFE223 which is similar to BL(C)-2 for lighter bullets.
I've shot the HAGAR (Nosgar) brass with a 6.8 bolt but with the reduced capacity have not developed a good load yet.
I bought the LAST 300 cases from the previous Hornady run. Saving them for later.
Those are some of the worst ejector marks I’ve ever seen. If it’s not bad/soft brass you should be backing way off. I think you said you had a lighter load that was not getting the ejector marks. If so it’s pretty clear that the hotter load is too hot. I can’t imagine port pressure alone causing ejector marks like that.
I have loaded some up with IMR 4064 and hope the wind goes down a bit to give them a try, 4064 is a stick pwd. My Upper doesn't have an AGB but probably will in the near future. Thanks everyone for the input and suggestions, they've been very helpful.
A little context; I only loaded 5 rounds with that pwd charge and was "looking" for a load that would work. I hope to get my 3rd trial with IMR 4064 on target today. I have some 70 and 77 gr FMJ's to try as well.
Watch for free shipping at Midway or Midsouth and get one box of 77gr factory.
From my experience, that is the hottest load sold. Not super accurate, but hot for a factory round.
Might as well post a cherry picked group.
Just look at the first 3 shot group, or maybe the first 5.
From my experience, that is the hottest load sold. Not super accurate, but hot for a factory round.
Might as well post a cherry picked group.
Just look at the first 3 shot group, or maybe the first 5.
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Got to shoot this morning and I must say, I'm closer to getting there. The brass was "pre" fired x 1 and now shows where the extractor smacked the painted (sharpie) case head, but NO INDENTATION! I used IMR 4064 @ 26.6 (silver) and 27gr (black). I plan to load and test some H335 tomorrow. Going to retire these pieces of brass and break into my new ones.
Attachments
Looking better. A chronograph would be a little helpful.
Look closely at the extractor marks on the rim. Sometimes it's snap over from a stiff spring/O-ring and has nothing to do with pressure/gas.
Look closely at the extractor marks on the rim. Sometimes it's snap over from a stiff spring/O-ring and has nothing to do with pressure/gas.
Interesting - IMR 4064 is #101 on the burn rate chart and H335 is #86. Curious as to why you’re going to try a faster powder?
OFG
The problem with the .22 nosler is the fact that it is a rebated rim case. The fatter case means more bolt thrust. The debated rim means less surface area where the bolt thrust is impinging. Pressure is still there as bolt unlocks.
It works just fine out of a bolt gun, not so much in an AR. FWIW dogtown brass is made by nosler.
It works just fine out of a bolt gun, not so much in an AR. FWIW dogtown brass is made by nosler.
The fatter case, lower pressure (than 5.56) less surface area and bolt THRUST is OK for bolt guns but the bolt thrust is NOT OK for ARs? The problem with ARs is the gas system. Nobody can seem to get the gas system to work.
Dogtown brass is made by Nosler. It is a little lighter and the neck thickness is less than Nosler Branded brass.
Modified 6mm Hagar brass is heavier and has a 6.8/Valk sized case head.
I can run some pretty stiff loads with a slower powder and heavy bullets without brass damage in a NO-GAS AR.
So, where is the problem?
Here's the brass from one 600 yd F-Open match. Lost 2 cases somewhere. Color coded the brass.
Dogtown brass is made by Nosler. It is a little lighter and the neck thickness is less than Nosler Branded brass.
Modified 6mm Hagar brass is heavier and has a 6.8/Valk sized case head.
I can run some pretty stiff loads with a slower powder and heavy bullets without brass damage in a NO-GAS AR.
So, where is the problem?
Here's the brass from one 600 yd F-Open match. Lost 2 cases somewhere. Color coded the brass.
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