there have been studies here re 308 min barrel length. about 18" was the concencus. what about 223-in a bolt gun? my guess 16-20". but what does anyone know for sure?
223 min barrel length
- Thread starter mosin46
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Re: 223 min barrel length
you can go as short as you want and it can still be effective....the question is not how short, but how short for what purpose?
you can go as short as you want and it can still be effective....the question is not how short, but how short for what purpose?
Re: 223 min barrel length
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JCH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you can go as short as you want and it can still be effective....the question is not how short, but how short for what purpose?
</div></div>
For the purpose of staying out of Federal Prison, 16" is a good idea for how short to go...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JCH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you can go as short as you want and it can still be effective....the question is not how short, but how short for what purpose?
</div></div>
For the purpose of staying out of Federal Prison, 16" is a good idea for how short to go...
Re: 223 min barrel length
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jvencius</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JCH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you can go as short as you want and it can still be effective....the question is not how short, but how short for what purpose?
</div></div>
For the purpose of staying out of Federal Prison, 16" is a good idea for how short to go...
</div></div>
Not if it is a pistol receiver...see, different purpose.
I didn't see him as asking a length question as far as not having to be NFA.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jvencius</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JCH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you can go as short as you want and it can still be effective....the question is not how short, but how short for what purpose?
</div></div>
For the purpose of staying out of Federal Prison, 16" is a good idea for how short to go...
Not if it is a pistol receiver...see, different purpose.
I didn't see him as asking a length question as far as not having to be NFA.
Re: 223 min barrel length
My 16 inch 223 on a folding stock does exactly what I want it to do. Its compact even with the can on. I built it for urban settings where a shot would be 500 and in ... with Black Hills 69 grain at about 350/360, hold 2 mils and pull the trigger.
My 16 inch 223 on a folding stock does exactly what I want it to do. Its compact even with the can on. I built it for urban settings where a shot would be 500 and in ... with Black Hills 69 grain at about 350/360, hold 2 mils and pull the trigger.
Re: 223 min barrel length
well,here is my idea. looking to look into a bolt "CQB" gun. i am not going to clear an apartment in the hood or contest the local swat team in an ofice complex. thinking more on walking out the door armed in a katrina like deal. i really don't care for gas guns. the only 2 i really like are the ak-74 clones and the m1a types. the newer wide mag range scopes might make this doable and i would have 200+ yard capability,no prob. thinking t3 lite,or some such,cut down to 18" or so. comment or trash the idea,whatever.
well,here is my idea. looking to look into a bolt "CQB" gun. i am not going to clear an apartment in the hood or contest the local swat team in an ofice complex. thinking more on walking out the door armed in a katrina like deal. i really don't care for gas guns. the only 2 i really like are the ak-74 clones and the m1a types. the newer wide mag range scopes might make this doable and i would have 200+ yard capability,no prob. thinking t3 lite,or some such,cut down to 18" or so. comment or trash the idea,whatever.
Re: 223 min barrel length
The limitations are the legalities of what you decide to go with rather than the performance from a shorter barrel. I used to own two Sig 556 pistols with 10" barrels. They performed quite well out to 100 yd...never tried any further. If I hadn't moved back to Kalifornia, I'd still own them. I would not want to be on the wrong end of one of those unless I was <span style="font-style: italic">at least</span> 200-300 yds away. So you could stick with a 16-18" and not worry about any "extra" legality issues, you could go with an SBR setup with something more like the 9" or 10" up to 12" barrel length, or even something similar to the Sig 556 pistol. If all you want is something CQBish, ballistics shouldn't be a huge concern at ranges under 50 -100 yds, the shorter barrel will do the job. As you don't seem to be interested in a gasser, a 16-18" bolt gun would do everything you'd want out to 500 yd or more, with no legal issues above and beyond any normal gun purchase.
The limitations are the legalities of what you decide to go with rather than the performance from a shorter barrel. I used to own two Sig 556 pistols with 10" barrels. They performed quite well out to 100 yd...never tried any further. If I hadn't moved back to Kalifornia, I'd still own them. I would not want to be on the wrong end of one of those unless I was <span style="font-style: italic">at least</span> 200-300 yds away. So you could stick with a 16-18" and not worry about any "extra" legality issues, you could go with an SBR setup with something more like the 9" or 10" up to 12" barrel length, or even something similar to the Sig 556 pistol. If all you want is something CQBish, ballistics shouldn't be a huge concern at ranges under 50 -100 yds, the shorter barrel will do the job. As you don't seem to be interested in a gasser, a 16-18" bolt gun would do everything you'd want out to 500 yd or more, with no legal issues above and beyond any normal gun purchase.
Re: 223 min barrel length
I went 16.5 but with the QD/Brake its a little longer. I have been out to 400 with no problems.
I went 16.5 but with the QD/Brake its a little longer. I have been out to 400 with no problems.
Re: 223 min barrel length
ok,got it re longer range. what do you think is the fastest,smoothest BA? like maybe the old lee enfield smooth. ww1 germans thought the brits had auto loaders. smooth and fast. any modern eqivalent? T3 comes to my mind. what else?
ok,got it re longer range. what do you think is the fastest,smoothest BA? like maybe the old lee enfield smooth. ww1 germans thought the brits had auto loaders. smooth and fast. any modern eqivalent? T3 comes to my mind. what else?
Re: 223 min barrel length
One thing to keep in mind.. If you reload for 223 and use a 16" bbl, I would use the fastest burning powder that you can shoot accurately with your chosen bullet. You will burn a greater percentage of powder and that will help keep the velocity up.
One thing to keep in mind.. If you reload for 223 and use a 16" bbl, I would use the fastest burning powder that you can shoot accurately with your chosen bullet. You will burn a greater percentage of powder and that will help keep the velocity up.
Re: 223 min barrel length
I've fired a 7.5" barrel...rounds didn't stabilize. At about 11" is when the rounds would actually stabilize coming out of the barrel. I have no idea about different twist rates and bullet weights though that may allow the round to be stabilized at below 11".
--Wintermute
I've fired a 7.5" barrel...rounds didn't stabilize. At about 11" is when the rounds would actually stabilize coming out of the barrel. I have no idea about different twist rates and bullet weights though that may allow the round to be stabilized at below 11".
--Wintermute
Re: 223 min barrel length
Love the look of the shorter barrel huge and very nice USO then with the can it just seals the deal. In my opinion a 223 for my uses wouldnt be used or needed past 500 Ive got rife/cartridge combos much better suited for long range so a 16-18" barrel in a 223 makes perfect sense to me. Min length I guess ultimately depends on your purpose for the gun for CQB a 10.5" Ar makes more sense than a bolt gun with a 16" but for a nice compact bolt action I personally would go with 16.5" for my purposes.
Love the look of the shorter barrel huge and very nice USO then with the can it just seals the deal. In my opinion a 223 for my uses wouldnt be used or needed past 500 Ive got rife/cartridge combos much better suited for long range so a 16-18" barrel in a 223 makes perfect sense to me. Min length I guess ultimately depends on your purpose for the gun for CQB a 10.5" Ar makes more sense than a bolt gun with a 16" but for a nice compact bolt action I personally would go with 16.5" for my purposes.
Re: 223 min barrel length
A 16" LTR would be a great project. A 16" with a 2.5-10x scope in the 6-7 pound range, I want one, really bad. But I know it wouldn't superceed my gas guns if I had to go out the door Katrina style.
I think you'll have a hard time getting a better action for your project than the Tikka. Good luck with your project hope you keep us posted when its complete.
A 16" LTR would be a great project. A 16" with a 2.5-10x scope in the 6-7 pound range, I want one, really bad. But I know it wouldn't superceed my gas guns if I had to go out the door Katrina style.
I think you'll have a hard time getting a better action for your project than the Tikka. Good luck with your project hope you keep us posted when its complete.
Re: 223 min barrel length
Depends I guess. I plan on running 80 grain amaxs so I'll stick to around 20" maybe 22".
Depends I guess. I plan on running 80 grain amaxs so I'll stick to around 20" maybe 22".
Re: 223 min barrel length
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Re25</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A 16" LTR would be a great project. A 16" with a 2.5-10x scope in the 6-7 pound range, I want one, really bad. But I know it wouldn't superceed my gas guns if I had to go out the door Katrina style.
I think you'll have a hard time getting a better action for your project than the Tikka. Good luck with your project hope you keep us posted when its complete. </div></div> That's what mine is. R700 action, 16.25 lilja fluted #5 contour, tuned old style rem trigger, manners mcs-t with 90%CF and a Leupold 3.5-10x40 TMR M5 turrets.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Re25</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A 16" LTR would be a great project. A 16" with a 2.5-10x scope in the 6-7 pound range, I want one, really bad. But I know it wouldn't superceed my gas guns if I had to go out the door Katrina style.
I think you'll have a hard time getting a better action for your project than the Tikka. Good luck with your project hope you keep us posted when its complete. </div></div> That's what mine is. R700 action, 16.25 lilja fluted #5 contour, tuned old style rem trigger, manners mcs-t with 90%CF and a Leupold 3.5-10x40 TMR M5 turrets.
Re: 223 min barrel length
I read a German study on the relation between accuracy and barrel length. They were consecutively slicing the barrel by one cm and checked the impact on the accuracy every single time. in case of 223, they proved no adverse effect of barrel length reduction on accuracy provided the barrel was not shorter than 47 cm.
I read a German study on the relation between accuracy and barrel length. They were consecutively slicing the barrel by one cm and checked the impact on the accuracy every single time. in case of 223, they proved no adverse effect of barrel length reduction on accuracy provided the barrel was not shorter than 47 cm.
Re: 223 min barrel length
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mike f</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well,here is my idea. looking to look into a bolt "CQB" gun. i am not going to clear an apartment in the hood or contest the local swat team in an ofice complex. thinking more on walking out the door armed in a katrina like deal. i really don't care for gas guns. the only 2 i really like are the ak-74 clones and the m1a types. the newer wide mag range scopes might make this doable and i would have 200+ yard capability,no prob. thinking t3 lite,or some such,cut down to 18" or so. comment or trash the idea,whatever. </div></div>
If a 16" bolt 223 floats your boat go for it. I think an AR would be a better choice for your 223 hurricanopacolypse CQB rifle though.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mike f</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well,here is my idea. looking to look into a bolt "CQB" gun. i am not going to clear an apartment in the hood or contest the local swat team in an ofice complex. thinking more on walking out the door armed in a katrina like deal. i really don't care for gas guns. the only 2 i really like are the ak-74 clones and the m1a types. the newer wide mag range scopes might make this doable and i would have 200+ yard capability,no prob. thinking t3 lite,or some such,cut down to 18" or so. comment or trash the idea,whatever. </div></div>
If a 16" bolt 223 floats your boat go for it. I think an AR would be a better choice for your 223 hurricanopacolypse CQB rifle though.
Re: 223 min barrel length
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jvencius</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JCH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you can go as short as you want and it can still be effective....the question is not how short, but how short for what purpose?
</div></div>
For the purpose of staying out of Federal Prison, 16" is a good idea for how short to go...
</div></div>
And not if he registers the bolt gun as an SBR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jvencius</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JCH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you can go as short as you want and it can still be effective....the question is not how short, but how short for what purpose?
</div></div>
For the purpose of staying out of Federal Prison, 16" is a good idea for how short to go...
And not if he registers the bolt gun as an SBR
Re: 223 min barrel length
I know I am old fashioned, but I like 18-20" for a .223 bolt gun. Shooting the 75 amax it makes for a handy, and somewhat potent combination. Also it is very cheap to shoot, which is critically important for a poor college kid like myself.
I know I am old fashioned, but I like 18-20" for a .223 bolt gun. Shooting the 75 amax it makes for a handy, and somewhat potent combination. Also it is very cheap to shoot, which is critically important for a poor college kid like myself.
Re: 223 min barrel length
lets irritate everyone. 16" in a 5.56mm will hit a silhoutte at 800 yards all day long; yes you need a spotter to get on but same with nearly any caliber at this distance. While I was cracking at 960 yards with an FN 7.62 I had a female EOD contractor next to me doing same with a 16" DPMS. Ballistics were eerily similar and I at the time had a 24" barrel on mine. If legal where you are would go with 12-14" barrel but for most of us legal= 16" and again this is completely adequate way beyond our shooting ability unless we have a spotter to help us wayyyy out there. As for "terminal ballistics" there is an old fashioned crowd that demands minimum 20" barrels and prefers 24-26" and just to put it gently they're wrong. No time to elaborate, good luck, go 16" maximum!
lets irritate everyone. 16" in a 5.56mm will hit a silhoutte at 800 yards all day long; yes you need a spotter to get on but same with nearly any caliber at this distance. While I was cracking at 960 yards with an FN 7.62 I had a female EOD contractor next to me doing same with a 16" DPMS. Ballistics were eerily similar and I at the time had a 24" barrel on mine. If legal where you are would go with 12-14" barrel but for most of us legal= 16" and again this is completely adequate way beyond our shooting ability unless we have a spotter to help us wayyyy out there. As for "terminal ballistics" there is an old fashioned crowd that demands minimum 20" barrels and prefers 24-26" and just to put it gently they're wrong. No time to elaborate, good luck, go 16" maximum!
Re: 223 min barrel length
sorry I screwed up when I read your responses; for a bolt gun go with 16" minimum thought we were on AR or m4 units. But now I have to ask if you are limited in the amount of rifles you can acquire and are adamant you want a bolt gun why a .223? same weight for all intensive purposes would be the same gun in a .308 and it would be alot more versatile. Again a 16" barrel is great with a max of 20". If you can only get one gun and are stuck on a .223 why get a bolt? With today's guns you're not trading up in accuracy with a bolt vs a well built AR and prices are comparable, while you have alot more versatility with the AR.
sorry I screwed up when I read your responses; for a bolt gun go with 16" minimum thought we were on AR or m4 units. But now I have to ask if you are limited in the amount of rifles you can acquire and are adamant you want a bolt gun why a .223? same weight for all intensive purposes would be the same gun in a .308 and it would be alot more versatile. Again a 16" barrel is great with a max of 20". If you can only get one gun and are stuck on a .223 why get a bolt? With today's guns you're not trading up in accuracy with a bolt vs a well built AR and prices are comparable, while you have alot more versatility with the AR.
