- Thread starter NFshooter150
- Start date
So also what's a good rule of thumb for fire forming brass to ai? I've heard 10% more than 556 but not sure
These are the load development tables for what I use, for 80 and 88 gn ELD-M's. Both are with ADI brass and BR4 primers in a 25" 1:7" twist IBI barrel. Powder is ADI 2206H (H4895) for the 80's and Reloader 15 for the 88's. I fireform with 25 gn of 2206H and an 80 gn bullet, or just use factory buffalo river ammo (which uses ADI brass). They pop out perfectly with either. I use the 25.8 load for the 80's and the 26.3 for the 88's. Both are really accurate.
Attachments
Last edited:
Awesome stuff! And that chart is badass! Where can I get a downloadable copy
I loaded up 25.1 of n140 with Berger vld75 and lapua brass for fireforming. I'm curious though about some lapua brass I have.. its been fired 6x still looks great and I anneal everytime is it safe to fireform it to 223ai? Current chamber is 223 wylde
It's really handy. You can download it from http://www.65guys.com/load-development-analysis/
223 Ackley Improved
I saw an "All Ackey" thread, but nothing specific to just the 223AI. Fire Forming load LC Brass - 1x fired and prepped to FF CCI 450 IMR8208XBR @ 24.0gn Berger 80.5gn seated at 2.485" COAL 22" 7 twist Rock Creek #4 Defiance Deviant Jon Beanland built 5x @ 100yds measured 0.2455" CTC
www.snipershide.com I was getting 2850 with that XBR load. But it was hot. Some of these loads I can only shoot with Lapua brass as LC and others blow out. The n140 load can be a bit hot, but that h4895 is low pressure and just stupid accurate.
Here's 10 shots as fast as I could get them off. The barrel has 2k+ at this point and just as accurate as when I started.
Awesome I got a few boxes of the 88s and some lbs of h4895 can't wait to try em223 Ackley Improved
I saw an "All Ackey" thread, but nothing specific to just the 223AI. Fire Forming load LC Brass - 1x fired and prepped to FF CCI 450 IMR8208XBR @ 24.0gn Berger 80.5gn seated at 2.485" COAL 22" 7 twist Rock Creek #4 Defiance Deviant Jon Beanland built 5x @ 100yds measured 0.2455" CTC
I was getting 2850 with that XBR load. But it was hot. Some of these loads I can only shoot with Lapua brass as LC and others blow out. The n140 load can be a bit hot, but that h4895 is low pressure and just stupid accurate.
Here's 10 shots as fast as I could get them off. The barrel has 2k+ at this point and just as accurate as when I started.View attachment 7936306
Hey guys is it safe to use 6x fired lapua brass from a 223 wylde to fireform into 223ai? It's been annealed everytime
It should be. It wouldn't be any different as any other brass as long as the brass shoulder hasn't been set back too far for the crush fit.
So I tried chambering some last night and they will go but man it's tight.. I'm going to try a new piece of brass tonight I'm worried this new chamber is alot tighter then my old one
Just buy a couple hundred Lapua brass for your new barrel. Personally I wouldn't use 6x fired brass in a new chamber whether it had been annealed or not. A proper chamber should have , if my memory serves me correct, .003-.004 crush fit on new cases.
In my experience with Ackleys ( 223 AI, 22-250 AI, 243 AI) accuracy can be excellent with fireforming loads.
Reloading depot forum should have a multitude of data... search function top right of page.
I would also recommend that you DONT use others data. Start with data for the parent cartridge and find what YOUR firearm likes. YMMV
In my experience with Ackleys ( 223 AI, 22-250 AI, 243 AI) accuracy can be excellent with fireforming loads.
Reloading depot forum should have a multitude of data... search function top right of page.
I would also recommend that you DONT use others data. Start with data for the parent cartridge and find what YOUR firearm likes. YMMV
it should be tight on the neck/shoulder junction as long as you can close the bolt. It'll form really well without having to jam bullets or worry about cases stretching or separating. You definitely want to be able to feel some resistance to the bolt closing. If it won't close you could always bump the shoulder back a touch but unless that's the case, I'd close the bolt and shoot it.
Alright ya thanks I did pull a new guy move and forgot I left some reloads long coal and went to chamber one it was hard but closed but then when I ejected it I stuck the bullet and dumped 25 grains of n140 everywhere lol
Maybe I should've been more specific. Given a like chamber with mostly identical measurements and tolerances, you should be able to. If you shot the brass thru a loose chamber you'll have issues. You can small base resize, or like someone else suggested, buy new brass. My Lapua brass has 10x or more at least. I'd wager that. The pockets are still tight ish and they can take loads my lake city brass will blow out on. So it's worth the investment
Please work up to my loads if you haven't already. They can be spicy. You do not want to blow up your gun. Speed is not everything, so don't push your luck. I have found that the 223 Ackley is especially susceptible to minimal pressure signs due to the small case and Ackley angles. This means you'll typically be at higher pressure than you'll realize. Sometimes you won't see any signs until you blow a primer or have a head separation.
In a completely unrelated note, McMillan has a no questions asked, just pay the shipping, full replacement warranty. Definitely not related at all to my warnings above. Not at all...
Ya I'm wondering if that's the case because it will close but you really gotta reef on it to get it to close... the other thing is I had a whidden die made on reamer specs so I could probably run brass through that also and try it. Worst case though I have 5 fresh boxes of lapua and like 400 new Norma and about 1200 new starline
Lol nope not at all no relation... got it.. but ya I'm a pretty experienced reloader now I also got nerded out by the grt program so I use it for any load development and if nothing else just to document the loads. I've had the 223 wylde bolt action and ar dialed in now I just need to figure out where to start for the ackley especially since now my jam point is about .060 though shorter then where my old barrel was and I know seating that much deeper can definitely increase the pressure.
I'm assuming you're talking about your freebore? Yeah definitely will effect your pressure lol.
Yes and ya unfortunately I put a new piece of lapua in and it closed with no problem so I guess I will just be retiring the 6x lapua to the ar15s
There’s a reason that the label on XBR is gold.
If you can find it go there with 75’s. In my experience 75’s is the sweet spot for the given case capacity.
If you are chasing speed 4895, if you are going for the common standbys use Varget.
If you can find it go there with 75’s. In my experience 75’s is the sweet spot for the given case capacity.
If you are chasing speed 4895, if you are going for the common standbys use Varget.
75 eld m
26.5g varget
Cci 450 lapua brass
3050 from 20" bartlien
80g eldm
26.6g varget
450
2950ish same gun both one hole loads. Shot my first 5 prs matches with the 75s
Gah damn what's your col answer cbto?
I settled on 25.3gr 8208 with 80SMK. Gets me 2950 out of a 24" proof. It was a little higher than I wanted to go but it was by far the most accurate load and had the lowest vertical at 300yds, so I stuck with it. It's not a killer load or anything, but I didn't play with it too much.
Definitely want to try 75 and 80 ELDM with some H4895 and 8208. Both are great powders.
Definitely want to try 75 and 80 ELDM with some H4895 and 8208. Both are great powders.
Id have to measure. Boat tail is above yhe bottom of the shoulder. Been a stellar preformer for 2500 rounds so far in all kind of weather conditions including rain
I found
I don't know if alot of guys are using it in 223ai but man with heavy bullets n150 is really hard to beat in my experience with a 223wylde for accuracy SD and es and good velocity as well
I had to fire form then fire a full power load before my sd mellowed out. One firing probably wont get everything perfect unless youre pushing it and then brass wont last very long.
So what kind of load did you use for the initial firing and then the full firing if you don't mind? I'm not going to use them but just a reference point to gauge
I dont remeber exactly. It was a near 556 max load with sw match rifle and 75g hornady hpbt. If memory serves me it was 23.5 or 24g. Second firing was full power load above. The sds were just higher then the 3rd firing.
Alright thanks ya thats kind of what I've heard for fireforming is using a 556 close to max load
Alright guys so I'm working up some loads to break in and fire form my new brux barrel. I have 50 rounds of smk 77 lapua new brass, cci 400, and AA2520. 25 rounds are 24.5 and 25 rounds is 25.2. Then I have 25 Berger FBT 80.5 N140 at 25.1 and 25 of N150 at 25.5. The bergers are pretty close to starting to compress but can still here some powder move. Do you guys think these will be safe or am I too high?
I think theres a good chance you'll pierce the 400s. I did. 450s or 41s are much better for this application
I second the 400's not being enough. Maybe if you had a downloaded load for FF, but not with full loads like that. I've successfully used 400's in mid-book loads, but once I got closer to max, say 80-90% they started flattening real hard. Never pushed beyond that to piercing.
Also, a compressed load doesn't mean it's going to be high pressure. That depends on the burn rate. A full case of TAC and you might blow your face off, but a full case of H4350 and you won't even get close to high pressure.
With those VV loads, I'd be very surprised if you didn't blow some primers. Those are both over max for standard 223 for the 80.5 according to VV's load data. Is there a reason you went that high just for fire-forming?
Ya I haven't actually loaded the bergs yet that's just what I have picked based on loads I have shot through the old barrel with a 223 wylde chamber. I also used GRT and those loads were about 59k pressure based on my old wylde chamber. I also looked at sierras load data for 223ai and they had a max with 540 and the 80 at around 26. But I have no problem backing it down I just have heard you also don't want to be too light
Another thing to keep in mind.. so viht app has the 80.5 with a max load of 24.4 with n140 but their coal is 2.244. So that's over 200 thou shorter then what I'm loading them too and n150 is 24.7 but also same coal
I think I will end up drop the load down a bit probably 24.2 for n140 and 24.7 for the n150 just to make sure and stay under
I ended up getting out to the range and got 101 rounds fireformed for the brux 223ai. Sight n see is the first 25 rounds in a break in cleaning regimen. Then the group shown was toward the end.. I'm pretty excited to get some loads worked up for this.
Attachments
Hey so is it normal for 223ai brass to shrink when fire forming? Brand new lapua 223rem brass was 1.748 and after firing its 1.736 in avg.
Mine did. I’m assuming that the chamber being 4 thou shorter, plus the brass expanding into the new chamber dimensions, reduces length. There’s a finite amount of brass but an increased volume area. Only one way for the brass to go
Do you know what your measured case capacity in water is for the ai? Mine was about 32.1 grains of water
Anyone have any good loads with N135 or reloader 15.5 with 75elds, 80s, 80.5s? I have two 8lb jugs of those powders.
I didn't have great luck with 15.5 but with n135 and the 75 Berger vlds I did
N135 looks to be a similar burn rate to H4895. Hopefully it gives similar speeds.
Wow that’s really good speed. Looks like I should try TAC.
I went up to 25.5 with that n135 and 75 vld and got just over 3100 out of a 26 inch brux barrel. Tac is really good stuff especially for a ball powder
