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280 Ackley Improved Build

J

jjones88

Sergeant of the Hide
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 22, 2012
108
0
Well I'm getting the itch to get another rifle so I'm starting to work on getting all the parts together for a 280 AI build. This will be my first time messing with an Ackley so any thoughts or input would be appreciated. I plan on shooting the 162 A-max and possibly something a little heavier. My current build specs are listed below. All the work will be done by Predator Custom Shop in Knoxville Tennessee. One question I have is will a standard reamer be ok or will I need to order something different.

Remington 700 LA
Obermeyer 7mm AMU 8.4 twist 28&quot
Mcree G5 TMAG Folding Stock
Sako Extractor
Badger Bolt Knob


 
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Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

The 280AI is an awesome cartridge. You're gonna like it- a lot.
Stock up on Nosler brass, H4831SC, Fed210GMM primers, and those 162s.
wink.gif

That is if you can find 'em. Good luck with your build.
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

I just got my .280AI in October. I love it. Mine was built by APA. Stock up on brass while you can, it gets tough to find. I shoot 162 AMAX and am seeing average velocities of 2990-3000. The gun shoots lights out. Good luck with your build. PM me if you have any questions on anything
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

Sounds like a great build. You might want to consider a mini m16 extractor instead of the sako. A better system IMHO.
smile.gif


Regards,
Paul
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

Having had both....my thoughts are save the trouble and stick with a 280Rem. IMO the gains are not worth the effort.

The 280 alone is great but if you are looking for a certain speed number, there are other standard cartridges that will get you there.
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

I thought that I would try the ackley just because. No particular reason, it's just something that I haven't tried yet.
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

jjones88,

I have a 280AI and I did it, "just because". I wanted to mess around with fire-forming and wildcat "stuff". It's a great cartridge even though there are standard chamberings that compare. The rounds are, "sexy bitches"....
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 5Redman8</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Having had both....my thoughts are save the trouble and stick with a 280Rem. IMO the gains are not worth the effort.

The 280 alone is great but if you are looking for a certain speed number, there are other standard cartridges that will get you there. </div></div>

I have also had both at this point and gotta say go with the AI version.... Its really no extra trouble. You can run normal 280 rounds in it and you have the option to go ackley if you wish. If you go normal 280 then you'll wanna go ackley but you cannot without some smithing.....
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jjones88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought that I would try the ackley just because. No particular reason, it's just something that I haven't tried yet. </div></div>

That's a good reason to try anything.
grin.gif


I spent the extra and got Nosler 280AI brass. Mines a sporter hunting rig , Bugholes smithed it.
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

So far everyone has recommended Nosler preformed brass. Is this because it is easer or because its better than fire forming.
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jjones88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So far everyone has recommended Nosler preformed brass. Is this because it is easer or because its better than fire forming. </div></div>

theres no need to fire form first round I used nosler in my hunting rig and rem 280 brass in my ted rig
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

Cool
It is a great round
I run a Nosler TGR with the light 24" Pacnor barrel
It shoots one hole groups with the 140 Accubonds and hammers deer and pigs.

I have some 162 Amax, 160 Accubonds, etc I need to work up loads for but haven't got around to it just yet

I say go for it!

I should add:
I run Nosler brass. Fed match primers and my chrono readings are right in line with Nosler reloading manual. I also run Redding dies and neck size only.

My load with the 140 is just under max per Nosler and averages 3150 FPS
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jjones88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So far everyone has recommended Nosler preformed brass. Is this because it is easer or because its better than fire forming. </div></div>

There are 2 chamberings for 280AI and as I understand it there's the original Ackley Improved chambering and then the newer SAAMI chambering. You're only to use the Nosler 280AI brass in the newer SAAMI chambering.

I use the older version and fire-form Remmy brass with no problem.

http://gunsmithtalk.wordpress.com/2010/01/13/280-ackley-improved-alert/
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

image_zps959bbae1.jpg


Judging by the drawings above the saami spec cartridge is only slightly shorter in the shoulders. So my assumption is that this would be the the more versatile clambering given the fact the Nosler preformed brass can be used and 280 can be safely fire-formed in this chamber. Along with the use of factory ammo if the situation ever arises. So this all seems to be worth the minimal loss of case volume. What do y'all think?
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

There's also the question of where you intend to source your brass. If you plan to fireform from 30-06, that requires it's own reamer IIRC. If you intend just to buy brass then disregard.
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

GAP built my 280 Ackley and it was a tack driver.

I used the Nosler 280 Ackley brass and would not ever use any other type. Why fireform if you do not have to?

I used Berger 180 VLDs and RL22.

You will not regret building a 280 AI.
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

Copper Creek just got us 2900+ from 24" bbl with 162amax in 280 ai
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .257</div><div class="ubbcode-body">GAP built my 280 Ackley and it was a tack driver.

I used the Nosler 280 Ackley brass and would not ever use any other type. Why fireform if you do not have to?

I used Berger 180 VLDs and RL22.

You will not regret building a 280 AI. </div></div>


Was your chamber set up for the saami spec 280 ai?
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

I have just got my 3rd one and I have had all kinds of trouble itch a load. Looks like I need to go back to 4831sc.
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

Not to hijack, but what are you all running for twist rates on your 280AI's? I am going to be ordering a barrel this week and am stuck on what to get. I want to shoot some of the heavier bullets (160-180gr) for long(er) range shooting. Thoughts?
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

From my research the 1:9 will stabilize the 180's but I wanted to go with 1:8.5 just to make sure. In the end I could not find one readily available so I got the 1:8.4 since it was in stock.
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

I'm shooting a 24" Broughton Matchgrade 5c 1:9 twist #5.5 contour. I have a load for 162 AMAX and it shoots lights out. I also am going to shoot 168 Bergers when I have time to work up a load
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

I have a 26" Bartlein medium palma 1:9 which handles the 162s and the 168s very well. I haven't tried anything else and don't see why I would need to
grin.gif
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

I run Nosler brass in my .280 AI. I've had it for about five years now and its been great on game. I can see no point in fire-forming for it simply because of cost and barrel wear. When you calculate cost, its cheaper to just buy Nosler brass and roll. That is unless you want to work up a load in unformed brass, figure out your dope, and use it until you have enough only to start the process over again once its all formed.
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

I have decided to go with the saami spec chamber so I will have the option to run nosler brass. Got the barrel and stock in today.

image_zpsff5aac20.jpg
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

i dont see why people think fire forming is a big deal just do the cream of wheat method. No bullets little powder and only takes a little bit of time. And the 280 AI is a great round, mine runs 168 and 162's at over 3000 fps and no pressure signs.
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

I've researched the supposed difference in the "two" 280 AI chamberings and I have come to the conclusion that there is no difference.

While I can't find the info when I need it (like now!), the difference in the drawings by the SAAMI guys are really a matter of semantics. I believe they are taking the measurements differently and if I recall correctly (maybe a long shot!) it has to do with the way a factory .280 gauge contacts the ackley chamber as opposed to taking the measurement off a SAAMI ackley 40* gauge (?) but the end result is that there is no difference. Again, I could be wrong with my recollection here. Just trying to give an idea what may be going on.

Here is a link to a good comparison of the SAAMI and the original AI gauges on youtube. Read the text under the video. -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vlskn2CE7-Y

Here is a post from ricksmith on 24hourcampfire -
I have loaded for three different 280AIs that were all made before Nosler starting making their brass. All my 280AIs were formed from Rem brass. When the Nosler brass became available, I switched to it in all three rifles. Never had a problem. I read the above on the Nosler site and then measured the headspace of unfired Nosler brass with fired neck sized brass. There was 0.009 difference. I have seen much more with belted mags. Never had a problem with the Nosler brass and will continue to use it. I hange the dimentions more when using Rem brass to form the AIs.Rick.

Here's another post you need to scroll to the bottom.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/5061125/3

There is still some very good info that clearly explains the reason for the apparent difference in the drawings and why there really isn't any practical difference. If I run across it I will add it.

I think you should be good to go with either the original AI or the SAAMI AI from what I have seen once I dug a little deeper.

I think I would like to build one someday. I hope you enjoy yours.
<span style="font-size: 14pt">
<span style="font-weight: bold">Ha! Found it! </span></span> It goes along with the youtube video but is more detailed.

https://gunsmithtalk.wordpress.com/2012/07/17/280-ackley-improved-emperical-headspace-test/

 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

Thanks for the information. When I order my reamer and gauge I will be going with the saami spec go gauge. All I have to do now is get a piece of 280 AI brass to mock up a round to sent to pt&g.

On a side note how far is everyone seating the 162 a-max off the lands and groves?
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

Use Nosler Ackley brass only....

Why fireform, waste of time and money.

Plenty of top shelf smiths have 280 Ackley reamers. Some smith like to headspace off a new price of unfired brass. Not go/no go gauges. Either way both ways are safe whatever some supposed guru tells you. He'll my head hasn't exploded yet from unsafe chambers.

Not sure what spec the reamer was that GAP used on mine. All I shot was 180 Bergers and it shot .25 moa all the time. Still got some bughole targets from that sweet rifle.

GAP
APA
Gradous

All build hammer 280 Ackleys.
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

Do it. Like .257 said use Nosler brass and dont look back. 280AI is a great round and I have Gradous building me one right now. If I get the rifle in the next month or two I will send you a pm and maybe we can go shooting in Tenn. I will be coming to Tenn in the next month or two. That way you can see Gradous work first hand. Good luck with the build.
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .257</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Use Nosler Ackley brass only....

Why fireform, waste of time and money.....</div></div>

Only one reason, logistics. Have all your rifles set up with cartriges that use 30-06 as the parent case and then buying 30-06 brass in bulk and fireforming makes sense. I'm plannning a 30-06 AI, a 280AI and a 6.5-06 AI, all because 30-06 brass is cheapish and easy to get. Good for a switch-barrel.
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

Great Round!!

I have one with a Kreiger 1:9 twist. Absolute hammer with 140 accubonds, 168 VLDS. I just got 200 162 amaxs I want to try out.

I use Nosler and Rem fireform brass.
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .257</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Use Nosler Ackley brass only....

Why fireform, waste of time and money.

Plenty of top shelf smiths have 280 Ackley reamers. Some smith like to headspace off a new price of unfired brass. Not go/no go gauges. Either way both ways are safe whatever some supposed guru tells you. He'll my head hasn't exploded yet from unsafe chambers.

Not sure what spec the reamer was that GAP used on mine. All I shot was 180 Bergers and it shot .25 moa all the time. Still got some bughole targets from that sweet rifle.

GAP
APA
Gradous

All build hammer 280 Ackleys.

</div></div>

Jered built mine, it's a nail driver. Good enough to make my BIL switch from his .284 to .280AI when it's time to re barrel his stick
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lhouston78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i dont see why people think fire forming is a big deal just do the cream of wheat method. No bullets little powder and only takes a little bit of time. And the 280 AI is a great round, mine runs 168 and 162's at over 3000 fps and no pressure signs. </div></div>

Fireforming with the CoW is incredibly hard on barrels. I've done it and I've done pre/post inspections of throats.

You're basically aiming a sand-blaster down the throat.



It's very easy to fireform without CoW, the best way that I've seen in all the wildcat forming I've done is this:

Take the parent brass and get the case die-formed close enough you are ready to fireform.

Neck up 1 size over the final bore you want, then neck ~90% of the neck back down to the right size leaving a false shoulder in the neck.

Load some medium loads and go shoot freshly annealed, false shouldered brass.

Done.

You get trigger time, similar or less barrel wear than the CoW exhibits and perfectly formed brass.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jarhead_h</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .257</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Use Nosler Ackley brass only....

Why fireform, waste of time and money.....</div></div>

Only one reason, logistics. Have all your rifles set up with cartriges that use 30-06 as the parent case and then buying 30-06 brass in bulk and fireforming makes sense. I'm plannning a 30-06 AI, a 280AI and a 6.5-06 AI, all because 30-06 brass is cheapish and easy to get. Good for a switch-barrel. </div></div>

A word of caution: 280 uses 270 Win brass as a parent and the shoulder is 0.052" farther forward than the 270.

It doesn't use the same 30-06 but it's close. Trim length is about 0.040" different between 30-06 and 270/280.

280 has its own base-shoulder dimension, 30-06 and 270 share that dimension.
 
Re: 280 Ackley Improved Build

I have ordered a pack of 50 Nosler preformed 280AI, and also a 100 pack of Remington 280 brass. For fire forming I intend to use the 162 A-max's to help start barrel brake in and to help zero in the scope. I'm still waiting to hear back from Dave at PT&G about how I want my reamer ground.(I know Shot Show and all) So any input on reamer specs concerning the amax's would be awesome.
 
Nosler Brass, CCI BR2s, RL22 and 160gr Accubonds made 1/2MOA and 3000fps in a 24" tube. I like it.
 
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