Re: .284 win?
Ray's recent Steel Safari wins were done using RE17 in .260 and 7 WSM.
Ray's recent Steel Safari wins were done using RE17 in .260 and 7 WSM.
- Thread starter YoungGun6mm
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Re: .284 win?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">am I correct in saying H4350 is the same powder as ADI 2213SC which I use safely with 57gr-no excess pressre signs </div></div>
Wow.....I don't know if I'd dare use that much pushing a 180
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">am I correct in saying H4350 is the same powder as ADI 2213SC which I use safely with 57gr-no excess pressre signs </div></div>
Wow.....I don't know if I'd dare use that much pushing a 180
Re: .284 win?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Michael Aos</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you really hit the nail on the head. The 284 Win is a good choice if you can't or don't want to run a brake / can. Or perhaps if your suppressor isn't rated for a magnum cartridge.
Otherwise, I think most would be better served with the SAUM / WSM.
Personally I've been struggling with my 284 Winchester:
30" Rock Creek 1:8.5" twist
50-51gr Reloder 17
Berger 180gr Hybrid, .01 off the lands. ~3.19" COAL
Lapua 6.5-284 brass necked-up.
Redding competition seater die -- hasn't been upgraded to the VLD insert.
Velocity is good, in the range of 2800-2875, and chrono (ES / SD) numbers are good and accuracy @100yds is good, but...
I keep having occasional pressure signs like stiff bolt lift and shiny spot on the brass. Maybe 1 in 5, and it doesn't seem to be related to the charge (50.0gr / 50.5gr / 51.0gr).
</div></div>
Michael,
I've been running a 284 for 5 or 6 years and had some of the same issues. The brass was stretching out in the web area after 3 or 4 firings. Stiff bolt lift, fine brass chips on bolt face. The ejector was turning on the rim of the shell instead of the shell turning. I bought a Redding small base die and haven't had the problems since. The brass that has been stretched out well go back to it's old memory but if you start using it with new brass it stops the problem. I'm on the ninth firing now with no problems.
Dennis
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Michael Aos</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you really hit the nail on the head. The 284 Win is a good choice if you can't or don't want to run a brake / can. Or perhaps if your suppressor isn't rated for a magnum cartridge.
Otherwise, I think most would be better served with the SAUM / WSM.
Personally I've been struggling with my 284 Winchester:
30" Rock Creek 1:8.5" twist
50-51gr Reloder 17
Berger 180gr Hybrid, .01 off the lands. ~3.19" COAL
Lapua 6.5-284 brass necked-up.
Redding competition seater die -- hasn't been upgraded to the VLD insert.
Velocity is good, in the range of 2800-2875, and chrono (ES / SD) numbers are good and accuracy @100yds is good, but...
I keep having occasional pressure signs like stiff bolt lift and shiny spot on the brass. Maybe 1 in 5, and it doesn't seem to be related to the charge (50.0gr / 50.5gr / 51.0gr).
</div></div>
Michael,
I've been running a 284 for 5 or 6 years and had some of the same issues. The brass was stretching out in the web area after 3 or 4 firings. Stiff bolt lift, fine brass chips on bolt face. The ejector was turning on the rim of the shell instead of the shell turning. I bought a Redding small base die and haven't had the problems since. The brass that has been stretched out well go back to it's old memory but if you start using it with new brass it stops the problem. I'm on the ninth firing now with no problems.
Dennis
Re: .284 win?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H_Cracka</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Michael Aos</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Reloader 17 is really cool stuff. If you can, the best way to go for finding the best load with it, is to use your chronograph. Since it is so temperature tolerant, it also has a 'soft' pressure ceiling.</div></div>
Most people say Reloder 17 is extremely temperature sensitive.
-- </div></div>
Mike the moderator here did RL17 testing with heavies in the 308 and found its ES unacceptable.</div></div>
I can tell you why that is too. The first thing everybody notices about RE-17 is "Wow!, look at these velocities". He was getting too much ES because he was loading too high with it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H_Cracka</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Michael Aos</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Reloader 17 is really cool stuff. If you can, the best way to go for finding the best load with it, is to use your chronograph. Since it is so temperature tolerant, it also has a 'soft' pressure ceiling.</div></div>
Most people say Reloder 17 is extremely temperature sensitive.
-- </div></div>
Mike the moderator here did RL17 testing with heavies in the 308 and found its ES unacceptable.</div></div>
I can tell you why that is too. The first thing everybody notices about RE-17 is "Wow!, look at these velocities". He was getting too much ES because he was loading too high with it.
Re: .284 win?
Sandwarrior:
Thank you for your insight. My 284 oughtta be done soon, and I've acquired H4350, H4831SC and Re17 to try, but had already kind of written the Re17 off because of the anecdotal "evidence" of temp instability. Without your insight, I probably wouldn't give it a fair shake. I will for sure, now.
Now, if they'll just ship my frickin' barreled action back to me!!
Sandwarrior:
Thank you for your insight. My 284 oughtta be done soon, and I've acquired H4350, H4831SC and Re17 to try, but had already kind of written the Re17 off because of the anecdotal "evidence" of temp instability. Without your insight, I probably wouldn't give it a fair shake. I will for sure, now.
Now, if they'll just ship my frickin' barreled action back to me!!
Re: .284 win?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zak Smith</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ray's recent Steel Safari wins were done using RE17 in .260 and 7 WSM.
</div></div>
Got any particulars on the 7WSM? I didn't do so great with mine, but it's only a 24" barrel. Accuracy was good, I just went back to H-1000 because I was getting the velocity I wanted.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zak Smith</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ray's recent Steel Safari wins were done using RE17 in .260 and 7 WSM.
</div></div>
Got any particulars on the 7WSM? I didn't do so great with mine, but it's only a 24" barrel. Accuracy was good, I just went back to H-1000 because I was getting the velocity I wanted.
Re: .284 win?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cigarcop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">am I correct in saying H4350 is the same powder as ADI 2213SC which I use safely with 57gr-no excess pressre signs </div></div>
Wow.....I don't know if I'd dare use that much pushing a 180 </div></div>I bought that down from 58gr but that was 1 grain to hot .57 appears comfortable.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cigarcop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">am I correct in saying H4350 is the same powder as ADI 2213SC which I use safely with 57gr-no excess pressre signs </div></div>
Wow.....I don't know if I'd dare use that much pushing a 180 </div></div>I bought that down from 58gr but that was 1 grain to hot .57 appears comfortable.
Re: .284 win?
ch'e, I'm pretty certain you won't be shooting 57Grs of H4350 with the 180's
ch'e, I'm pretty certain you won't be shooting 57Grs of H4350 with the 180's
Re: .284 win?
no , your are correct it is the h4831 which is adi 2213sc -same powder I believe from same manufacturer
no , your are correct it is the h4831 which is adi 2213sc -same powder I believe from same manufacturer
Re: .284 win?
Was curious if I'd see any difference between Winchester 284 brass and necked-up Lapua.
30" barrel, 50.7gr H4350, CCI BR2, Berger 180gr Hybrid
Lapua Win
High 2802 2822
Low 2792 2789
ES 10 33
M 2796 2799
SD 4 13
The Winchester brass seemed to be shooting fine, but then I got a few of these weird fliers. I don't recall seeing anything like this before.
I was also having issues with the Winchester brass ejecting. It was getting hung-up in the action. It was extracting fine, just not ejecting.
Curiously, the fliers are both at about 10-o'clock.
Was curious if I'd see any difference between Winchester 284 brass and necked-up Lapua.
30" barrel, 50.7gr H4350, CCI BR2, Berger 180gr Hybrid
Lapua Win
High 2802 2822
Low 2792 2789
ES 10 33
M 2796 2799
SD 4 13
The Winchester brass seemed to be shooting fine, but then I got a few of these weird fliers. I don't recall seeing anything like this before.
I was also having issues with the Winchester brass ejecting. It was getting hung-up in the action. It was extracting fine, just not ejecting.
Curiously, the fliers are both at about 10-o'clock.
Re: .284 win?
When I left the range tonight, I was telling myself I'm just going to stick this 284 Winchester in the safe and go back to shooting my 260 Remington.
It occurs to me though that this was the first time I shot this lot (2ED91) of Winchester 284 brass and this is the first time I've had the issues with fliers and failures to eject. Not that I necessarily suspect the bullets, but this is also the first time I've used lot #3807 of the Berger PN 28407 180gr Hybrid.
It might be worth spending a little more time with it.
My 260 Remington sure was shooting good tonight though...
--
When I left the range tonight, I was telling myself I'm just going to stick this 284 Winchester in the safe and go back to shooting my 260 Remington.
It occurs to me though that this was the first time I shot this lot (2ED91) of Winchester 284 brass and this is the first time I've had the issues with fliers and failures to eject. Not that I necessarily suspect the bullets, but this is also the first time I've used lot #3807 of the Berger PN 28407 180gr Hybrid.
It might be worth spending a little more time with it.
My 260 Remington sure was shooting good tonight though...
--
Re: .284 win?
MA I'm not sure I can tell what difference your talking about? I see a group on one plate with a flier and no group on the other with a possible flier.
Weird about the brass not ejecting, If it was the Lapua brass I'd say maybe it was getting caught on the extractor since the rim is thicker than the Winchesters.
MA I'm not sure I can tell what difference your talking about? I see a group on one plate with a flier and no group on the other with a possible flier.
Weird about the brass not ejecting, If it was the Lapua brass I'd say maybe it was getting caught on the extractor since the rim is thicker than the Winchesters.
Re: .284 win?
I had my sole 308-class suppressor on the 260 Remington when I got to the range. I swapped it over to the 284 Winchester. Shot 5 rounds over the chronograph.
Set up a target @ 100yds. Shot a few groups that were reasonable and set / confirmed my zero.
Moved the suppressor back to the 260 Remington. Shot a couple groups and set / confirmed my zero.
Moved it back to the 284 Winchester, just to see if all this swapping-around would change anything. First shot was a little high, then it seemed to settle right back in. Then on the target pictured above, the first shot was at that 10-o'clock position. That's WAAAAAAY far away from where I was aiming. Then the next 4 shots were in the (~3/4") bull. Reloaded the magazine, and again the flier at the 10-o'clock position. So in both cases it was the first-round off a fresh magazine.
There appeared to be something seriously wrong, so I just quit there.
FYI, I'm running a brake-attach Jet suppressor. Long-action AICS, with Accurate Mag 300WM magazines.
--
I had my sole 308-class suppressor on the 260 Remington when I got to the range. I swapped it over to the 284 Winchester. Shot 5 rounds over the chronograph.
Set up a target @ 100yds. Shot a few groups that were reasonable and set / confirmed my zero.
Moved the suppressor back to the 260 Remington. Shot a couple groups and set / confirmed my zero.
Moved it back to the 284 Winchester, just to see if all this swapping-around would change anything. First shot was a little high, then it seemed to settle right back in. Then on the target pictured above, the first shot was at that 10-o'clock position. That's WAAAAAAY far away from where I was aiming. Then the next 4 shots were in the (~3/4") bull. Reloaded the magazine, and again the flier at the 10-o'clock position. So in both cases it was the first-round off a fresh magazine.
There appeared to be something seriously wrong, so I just quit there.
FYI, I'm running a brake-attach Jet suppressor. Long-action AICS, with Accurate Mag 300WM magazines.
--
Re: .284 win?
OK I'm understanding now!
OK I'm understanding now!
Re: .284 win?
honestly, i don't think that's an ammo issue you have there. there's something mechanical going on in my opinion.
as far as extracting, i haven't tried lapua brass with my reamer but i do small base size my winchester brass. i could probably get away with doing it every other firing but i do it every time i size it to stay consistent.
i'm sticking with winchester brass, h4831sc and 175 smks for my 284. no matter what i do, it works damn good in all weather.
these are the first 5 rounds down my new 31" brougthon 9 twist barrel.
the top right hole is the very first round down the barrel. i made an adjustment and that is the middle left shot. i made one more adjustment and the next three rounds went into the hole in the lower right of the dot.
i made one more adjustment and the next 5 rounds were in the lower dot.
by the way, this was with 11x fired, never annealed, dirty/non-tumbled brass.
i'm going to stretch it's legs to 1k tomorrow and see how the new barrel performs. i am going from a 27" barrel that had 3k rounds through it and was still shooting good to a new 31" barrel. i'm curious how much velocity i will gain.
honestly, i don't think that's an ammo issue you have there. there's something mechanical going on in my opinion.
as far as extracting, i haven't tried lapua brass with my reamer but i do small base size my winchester brass. i could probably get away with doing it every other firing but i do it every time i size it to stay consistent.
i'm sticking with winchester brass, h4831sc and 175 smks for my 284. no matter what i do, it works damn good in all weather.
these are the first 5 rounds down my new 31" brougthon 9 twist barrel.
the top right hole is the very first round down the barrel. i made an adjustment and that is the middle left shot. i made one more adjustment and the next three rounds went into the hole in the lower right of the dot.
i made one more adjustment and the next 5 rounds were in the lower dot.
by the way, this was with 11x fired, never annealed, dirty/non-tumbled brass.
i'm going to stretch it's legs to 1k tomorrow and see how the new barrel performs. i am going from a 27" barrel that had 3k rounds through it and was still shooting good to a new 31" barrel. i'm curious how much velocity i will gain.
Re: .284 win?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Zak assures me that a Thunderbeast 30P-1 should work just fine with a .284.
It had better work...
</div></div>
Mine works great. It is a match made in heaven
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Zak assures me that a Thunderbeast 30P-1 should work just fine with a .284.
It had better work...
Mine works great. It is a match made in heaven
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