30/06 for L/R shooting..... (1000 yards)

Eagle_Eye

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Ok..

I am wanting to build another precision rifle and am tossing up between 2 ideas.

Either Use my hunting rifle's action (Howa 30/06) and build it from there onwards, or fork out the ect. $$$ and go a new action in .338 Lapua.

I Know the .338 LM is a superior round though i am taking money into consideration, and weather or not i need another Large cal rifle.

(i have .300 WIN aswell)

comments please...............

[img:center]http://http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu312/Eagle___Eye/?action=view&current=paintjob.jpg&newest=1[/img]
 

bohem

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Re: 30/06 for L/R shooting..... (1000 yards)

I have no experience with a 338 LM, so I'll stick to the 30-06 (I wish I could get to shoot a 338 to see what the rage is all about...hint...anyone near Philly.)

Anyway.

My 30-06 is built from a k98 action. I am actually in the midst of taking it completely down to components and refinishing the whole thing since when I first built it I was so excited to have it in shooting condition that I never cleaned the military tooling marks and rough finish from the outside.

That being said, a 30-06 will easily get you to 1k, you can buy retail price Berger or JLK's and keep a reloaded round under 60 cents (barely) and you can walk into any store in the country that sells ammo and pickup a box of 30-06 that will kill a deer, elk or moose at 300 yards.

It's not a 1500 yard caliber, although I hear Montana Marine shoots his to 1800 (which is incredible), but it's a 1k caliber for sure. Don't believe that just look at the kills made in Vietnam with an M70 in 30-06

If you want to go smaller bore, you could go 6.5-06 and pickup the great ballistic qualities of a 6.5mm bullet and have an easy/inexpensive brass source compared to 6.5-284

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bohem

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Re: 30/06 for L/R shooting..... (1000 yards)

Nice stick. What is it?

I like my 30-06 better than my 308, it shoots heavy 180-190 class bullets significantly faster, so you have less drop and drift at those long ranges. With the right barrel, action, glass, etc etc I don't believe that there's an edge for 30-06 vs. 308 on "inherent accuracy" for 99.999% of the shooters in the world trying to go past 300 yards. The deciding factors will always be

How good/repeatable is the ammo
How good/repeatable is the glass and action and barrel combination

First and foremost, how good/repeatable is the nut that goes between the trigger and the butt cap.

The military went with the 308 instead of the 30-06 for 1 major reason. Cheaper manufacture and equivalent results with 150 grain FMJ's

The 308 does the same thing with 45 grains of powder that the 06 takes 53-55 grains to do on a 150 grain bullet (for the WC84x ball powders they use). Brass takes less raw material to make. The action is shorter so the MG's can have a higher rate of fire. The round weighs a little less and it's a little smaller so the average guy given a combat load of MG ammo can carry and extra 10 rounds.

The 308 is no slouch, and it's a very versatile round, but my experience, the loading data, and my "un" biased opinion is that it looses ground once you hit 165 grain bullets, after that is where the 06 really starts to shine. At 1k the extra 200 fps MV from a 190 is going to be a MAJOR difference, just look at how the 30-06 compares to a 300 Win Mag at those ranges. Same difference.
 

Eagle_Eye

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Re: 30/06 for L/R shooting..... (1000 yards)

thats actually why i bought the 30/06 over the .308 in the first place, the ability to use a wider range of projectiles (110-220) effectively.

I did however think that the .308 had it over the '06' in accuracy but have never stacked them up in the field, so i wouldnt know.

BTW it's a Howa Model 1500 with crappy custom spray job.

Its a great mountain rifle as it is light, so im a little hesitant to pull it down just for the action.

Have to make some decisions
smile.gif




 

bohem

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Re: 30/06 for L/R shooting..... (1000 yards)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eagle_eye</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thats actually why i bought the 30/06 over the .308 in the first place, the ability to use a wider range of projectiles (110-220) effectively.

I did however think that the .308 had it over the '06' in accuracy but have never stacked them up in the field, so i wouldnt know.

BTW it's a Howa Model 1500 with crappy custom spray job.

Its a great mountain rifle as it is light, so im a little hesitant to pull it down just for the action.

Have to make some decisions
smile.gif




</div></div>

Well, here's something to think about

Leave that 1500 as is and keep it as your go-to mountain rifle. It's light and does the job right? I say keep it as is.

Go get a Rem 700 stripped action or Savage 10 or if you want to spend the bucks, one of the many top grade customs. Build a rifle based solely for your goals with 1k in mind. That Howa isn't a precision rig, it could be turned into one, but at what cost and how's that compare to the money you'd fork over to have a whole second rifle that won't be pulling triple duty?

My k98 has a sister rifle in 308. My dad was getting into turning his hobby of gunsmithing into a business and we built 2 Mausers from $19 turkish k98 actions. I'm not the world's greatest shot, but I'm a fair shooter and out to 300 yards I can't tell a difference. I've shot the 30-06 out to 700 one time and once I figured out the drop and slight drift I was hitting grapefruits and rotten cantaloupe.

I think it would take something like a Surgeon or GAP in a $5000 custom build to figure out if there's an edge of the 308, because with 2 equally tweaked mauser actions, both shooting well under 1/2 MOA to 300y I haven't seen a difference whatsoever.

Back to the "what to do" (I think I have adult ADD...)

Go into the "For Sale" section here and pick up one of the many Rem 700 or Savage 10 or custom actions that are generally for sale. You can probably do it for less than what you'd go pay for a Howa (500 OTD) and might even be able to score a good trigger on it already. Pick your barrel of choice and build a rifle on that.

Here's a quick cost comparison in just steps necessary, not numbers

<span style="font-weight: bold">Cannibalizing the Howa</span>
Gunsmith pulls down the rifle to a bare action, tru's the whole thing up
New barrel, chamber, headspace, fitment, etc
New stock
Bed everything in place
New glass? Or keep of what's on it already?
Trigger

<span style="font-weight: bold">New build</span>
Gunsmith has bare action in hand, probably already tru'd depending on what you get from here
New barrel, chamber, headspace, fitment, etc
New stock
Bed everything
New glass
trigger

You're only saving the money on getting the action and whatever you'd choose with the glass. On the low side you can save 500 bucks, so ask yourself if that Howa you already have is worth 500 bucks to you to have a second rifle that you're not worried about beating on a little bit.

I'm somewhat in the same boat as you. I have a long action Parker and Hale in 308 that I just got and came to the sore realization that I can't shoot it. I'm a lefty, I bought it as a shooter that has the classic late 60's look, and it's setup for a right handed shooter. I bought the rifle for the classic look and feel of a wood monte carlo stock and light hunting rifle that's known to shoot 1/2 MOA inside 400 yards. I'm not sure what to do about it just yet, since I love how it looks, feels, and is reported to shoot. I don't want to separate the stock and put a new stock on it because it's an all original setup in wonderful condition.
 

MontanaMarine

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Re: 30/06 for L/R shooting..... (1000 yards)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...although I hear Montana Marine shoots his to 1800....</div></div>

Just to be clear, I've had it out past 1800 in what I'd call playtime plinking. I'm not endorsing the 30-06 as a viable 1800 yard tool for serious endevours.

It is a very viable 1000 yard chambering, with a number of bullets.
 

MontanaMarine

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Re: 30/06 for L/R shooting..... (1000 yards)

Accuracy differences between the 308 and 30-06 are indistinghuishable in the realm of tactical rifles/ammo.

In the BR world, maybe, but that's a whole different animal.

My 30-06 shoots .5 moa with pretty much everything I've ran through it from 110gr VMax up to 240gr Matchking. That's with a Douglas barrel, which isn't even considered a top-shelf barrel.

Some of my 308/30-06 targets:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v461/montanamarine/Targets/?start=all

 

USMCj

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Re: 30/06 for L/R shooting..... (1000 yards)

Here is an idea, if you want something for serious long range, why not build a 7WSM? It will keep up with the .338 Lapua, but it will not cost as much to shoot, and it will not have the recoil the .338 does.
 

cypriss32

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Re: 30/06 for L/R shooting..... (1000 yards)

I did the 30-06 thing. I really like it, gave me better performance then a 308 does without stepping up the the winmag. I will build another on a long tubb gun with a 284win switch barrel rifle some day...

Looking 284win or 280AI. High BC bullets that can be shot faster.
 

chpprguy

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Re: 30/06 for L/R shooting..... (1000 yards)



Next to your pic, just copy the block that says
<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">IMG code</span></span>

and voila....

paintjob.jpg
 

bohem

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Re: 30/06 for L/R shooting..... (1000 yards)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...although I hear Montana Marine shoots his to 1800....</div></div>

Just to be clear, I've had it out past 1800 in what I'd call playtime plinking. I'm not endorsing the 30-06 as a viable 1800 yard tool for serious endevours.

It is a very viable 1000 yard chambering, with a number of bullets. </div></div>

I knew I'd read something to that effect before with impressive results. Thanks for clearing that up, I didn't want to say something totally off base regarding it.


9Hotel- That tube rifle is interesting to say the least, thanks for that link, I'm going to have to read it again at home when I don't have to look over my shoulder for what's up on the screen.
 

trotchye

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Re: 30/06 for L/R shooting..... (1000 yards)

Just checked out your gallery! Totally impressed!
 

doc76251

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Re: 30/06 for L/R shooting..... (1000 yards)

I'd put my 30-06 up against any 308 day for day and we'll keep walking backwards till the 308 dies, then I'll keep walking.

OBTW I drive 210 bergers at 2800fps w/ ES's in the low teens. The whiz bang machine says I'm at the supersonic break point at 1750 yards at sea level. I'm thinking I might get 10 more yards for the mile shot
laugh.gif


Not too much to dislike about magnum performance with no belt and long barrel life.

Cheers,

Doc
 

bohem

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Re: 30/06 for L/R shooting..... (1000 yards)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd put my 30-06 up against any 308 day for day and we'll keep walking backwards till the 308 dies, then I'll keep walking.

OBTW I drive 210 bergers at 2800fps w/ ES's in the low teens. The whiz bang machine says I'm at the supersonic break point at 1750 yards at sea level. I'm thinking I might get 10 more yards for the mile shot
laugh.gif


Not too much to dislike about magnum performance with no belt and long barrel life.

Cheers,

Doc </div></div>

Yes sir, people seem to get lost in the hype of new cartridges (I did for the 17 HMR) but I wouldn't trade my 06 up for anything, for all those reasons and more. Everyone should own a 30-06 IMO
smile.gif
 

Eagle_Eye

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Re: 30/06 for L/R shooting..... (1000 yards)

HAHA

im impressed with the '06' devotees comments.

I love mine for hunting purposes, it never lets me down. Have shot alot of game with it, but nothing over 300 meters

I just finished a long range project in .300 WM but i wanted to build a another long range rifle with a Bell ANd Carson stock that i have fallen in love with and my new rifle is a Tikka which doesnt fit.

So if i bight the bullet it will be a Howa action or most likely a remington action.

with regards to new cartrides, well there wasnt anything wrong with the old ones! (IMO)