Re: 30 MOA Base for 10/22
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dogbone</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Dogbone,
So you decided to pop over to my link huh? </div></div>
LOL Well in a word yes.
Sorry to ruin yours and Aries line of facts and BS over here but the OP deserves another view point that is based on facts where he will not have to spend thousands to get a 10/22 to shoot accurately.</div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Dogbone</span>,
You quoted <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">YAOG</span></span>, and he has responded. However, since you addressed both of us and have inaccurately called us "BS"ers' I will respond to your BS as well.
<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">First of all</span></span>, something I have noticed about you is that <span style="font-weight: bold">YOU</span> frequently avoid replying to comments and answering questions that are asked of you - and that if and when you respond you will try to spin things your own way and/or change the subject, never addressing the substance of what is being discussed or producing any evidence against what others have said.
Not unlike
<span style="font-weight: bold"> <span style="font-style: italic">Post #1230776</span> </span>, which is four (4) posts above this one
<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">Secondly</span></span>, it is <span style="font-weight: bold">YOU</span> who is running a line of BS here. It is actually <span style="font-weight: bold">FACT</span> it is neither my (<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Aries64</span></span>) viewpoint nor <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">YAOG</span></span>'s viewpoint that it costs thousands of dollars to get a 10/22 to shoot accurately. Also <span style="font-weight: bold">FACT</span> is that neither I nor YAOG have said or implied that people "have to spend thousands to get a 10/22 to shoot accurately". Another <span style="font-weight: bold">FACT</span> is that I have never said V-Block-equipped 10/22s' are inaccurate - both here on the SH and over on RFC I have said that many accurate 10/22s' have been built on factory Ruger receivers using the standard V-Block and a regular, slip-fit barrel. I've said that with conviction and with several decades of shooting experience that includes shooting a bunch of stock and "modified" 10/22s' - this is also <span style="font-weight: bold">FACT</span>.
Some 10/22s', including <span style="font-weight: bold">YAOG</span>'s 10/22T shoot very well with a simple stock change (YAOG's 10/22T wears a Bell & Carlson Varmint / Tactical), while others need a lot more than that.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dogbone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Frankly YAOG you and Aries keep getting your threads closed not because what you are saying about threading the receiver and barrel are wrong but because both of you have been rude know-it-all jerks and tell everyone who does not follow your line to the T that they are idiots etc for not taking your rants as gospel.</div></div>
Oh, so it wasn't things like me saying:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
"<span style="font-style: italic">As a method of attaching a barrel and receiver together</span>, a threaded connection is superior to a V-Block system for a multitude of reasons:
Shot-to-shot, the receiver-to-barrel alignment will always be consistent and true
Shot-to-shot, the bolt face-to breech face will always be consistent and true
Shot-to-shot, the extractor slot will always be in exactly the same place shot-to-shot and in-line with the extractor
Shot-to-shot, the barrel angle will always be consistent a consistent zero (free of barrel droop)</div></div>
As long as proper machining procedures are followed (SOP for a professional gunsmith) these relationships will always remain consistent/static when a barrel and receiver are threaded together as a single, rigid unit. Obviously, the bolt face-to-breech face relationship is dynamic while the bolt is in motion.
Consistency in the above cannot be guaranteed when a V-Block, adjustable or not, is used.
Rude? Again, I was not (one of several) posters screaming insults while adding nothing constructive. People just can't stand hearing the truth - that from a engineering design standpoint the 10/22 has issues. Sure, its' a great, inexpensive plinker but there is a lot of room for improvement.
<a href="http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2398064&posted=1#post2398064[b" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><span style="font-style: italic">
<span style="font-weight: bold">"Understanding Barrel Droop"</span></span></a> was doctored to the disadvantage of <span style="font-style: italic">YAOG</span> and myself, locked, then we were both banned. So much for honest, open, and free discussion. Anyone who reads through the thread can see that I was very calm and rather polite - especially considering that I was under attack pretty much as soon as I replied to the first post.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dogbone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are some extremely talented engineers and gunsmiths over there who have put a lot into making the little 10/22 preform well beyond its intended design.</div></div>
I know, I had some machining work done by Randy at CPC. IMHO, the accuracy and consistency demonstrated by my MOA 10/22 is a testament to Randy's machining skills and well as how well a threaded barrel and receiver combination work when proper machining procedures are executed with precision by a professional with the right tools and equipment for the job.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dogbone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">there are also a good number of us at RFC that shoot these Hot Rodd 22's reliably and accurately at 100 yards and beyond with these engineered fixes that supposedly do not work according to you.</div></div>
"A good number" - hhmmm...I don't know what that number is, but from what I've seen people over at RFC who shoot to 100 yards, let alone beyond 100 yards, appear to be in the minority. Maybe there are more people who use multiple names between RFC and SH than <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Skeeter27Red</span></span>, (<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">aka HodRod9mm</span></span> here on the Hide'). <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Skeeter27Red/HotRod9mm</span></span> has been very quiet here about the RFC fiasco, as have I in an attempt to keep that BS from migrating here.
Also, I haven't said that adjustable V-Blocks don't work. However, I have said that they are bandaides and that "<span style="font-style: italic">As a method of attaching a barrel and receiver together</span>, a threaded connection is superior to a V-Block system for a multitude of reasons:..."
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dogbone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When both you and Aries were asked to prove that these other fixes did not work by an engineer neither of you could.</div></div>
IIRC, that was after <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Skeeter27Red/HotRod9mm</span></span> stated that his Adjustable V-Block is more consistent, accurate, and reliable than a threaded barrel/receiver combination, and that threading a barrel and receiver together actually introduces problems. Of course, in a pre-emptive measure a refusal was made to even mention any of these "problems" alledgedly introduced by threading a barrel/receiver together. YAOG was told to <span style="font-style: italic">"Go pound sand"</span>.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dogbone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Instead you just write incredibly long winded post with no facts.</div></div>
No facts? Your comprehension and view of "facts" is truly selective. Physics, mechanical certainty, and an examination of the 10/22's design bear out many facts in my <span style="font-style: italic">"incredibly long winded post with no facts".</span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dogbone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You attempt to try and force your point of view on everyone by tearing apart other peoples post and propping them up to force your point or you simply bash them because they did not tow the line to your whim.</div></div>
Actually, I like to break posts into individual statements and ideas and respond to those statements and ideas in turn, rather than running everything together. This makes it clear who I am addressing, what part or parts of a post I am referring to, and makes it easier for everyone, <span style="font-style: italic">including the person I am addressing</span> to follow the reasoning and train-of-thought, should they actually read the post.
If it makes someone uncomfortable to see their own words quoted and responded to thats' their issue, not mine. - <span style="font-style: italic">"The truth does not fear investigation"</span> -
<span style="font-weight: bold">HuDisCo</span> web site
Quoting someone directly is also better than generically replying to a thread because it prevents replies from being directed to the wrong person or persons in a thread. This is very common on web sites and is more often than not the rule rather than the exception, including the SH and RFC.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dogbone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are a true internet bully.</div></div>
I don't know whether you are addressing <span style="font-style: italic">YAOG</span> or me, (<span style="font-style: italic">Aries64</span>) - but once again you are confused by your own BS. Neither <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">YAOG</span></span> or I (<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">Aries64</span></span>) took cheap shots at others, and cleaned-up posts, then locked threads so we could not respond. Someone with ADMIN powers did that. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Admin3</span></span>.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dogbone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The other thing I have noticed, you are pretty good at taking other peoples post and making the valid points they make look like your own, I'm almost impressed.</div></div>
Again, I don't know whether you are addressing <span style="font-style: italic">YAOG</span> or me, (<span style="font-style: italic">Aries64</span>) but here is more of your BS - neither <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">YAOG</span></span> or I (<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">Aries64</span></span>) do this. We speak our own words which is why we got banned for speaking the truth. If we do use someone else's words we quote them.
Something I have noticed is that you frequently avoid replying to comments and answering questions that are asked of you, such as four (4) posts above this one
<span style="font-weight: bold">(<span style="font-style: italic">Post #1230776</span>)</span>.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dogbone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry Death but you deserve another view on your problem that is not so incredibly slanted. I encourage you to research. look at all the options available to you and find your own way on this, only then will you make a knowledgeable decision. I would ask you to contact skeeter
HERE for a start and ask him all the questions you want. He will give you honorable straight forward answers based on years and several <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="color: #FF0000">HUNDRED</span></span> builds of experience. </div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">DEATH</span></span>, maybe <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">Skeeter27Red/HotRod9mm</span></span> will tell you about some of the problems that are introduced when high-end action parts are used and proper, precise machine work is performed by a skilled professional when a 10/22 receiver and barrel are threaded together. More likely, he'll tell you to <span style="font-style: italic">"Go pound sand"</span> or something else along those lines.
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Dogbone</span></span> - there is a distinction that needs to be drawn between a cheap, kluge bandaid add-on that is sold to hapless 10/22 owners under the guise that this simple $23.95 part is actually superior to a properly machined & threaded 10/22 barrel/receiver unit. It is this distinction that you conveniently exclude so often. So, why don't <span style="font-weight: bold">YOU</span> start using facts instead of trying to spread more of your BS around.
Keith