If by strip you mean giving up that ass, then yes.
Now that I think on it, I’ve probably put several women through college.
- Thread starter pineoak
- Start date
Now that I think on it, I’ve probably put several women through college.
Why do I picture Boxer from Animal Farm saying that. (Not implying anything about you personally.)
You want your $2,000? Vote for me.*
You want your $20,000? Vote for my party.**
* Still had to steal the election
**Will have to steal another
You want your $20,000? Vote for my party.**
* Still had to steal the election
**Will have to steal another
Its not really any different, but where does it stop? At some point something breaks and this country goes into free fall.
Really short term
Free fall is where we free ourselves of all the freeloaders. They don’t think it be like it is, but it do.
Credit card debt is stressful. Mortgage, car and student loan debt really doesn't impact my stress levels. I get what you're saying though and I will be glad once the debt is finally gone.
And the college professors and administrators are just giddy over this. Watch as they raise tuitions across the board, along with their already bloated salaries and benefits packages.
Ask anyone that has paid off their mortgage how it feels to get that monkey off your back. You may not think that it doesn't cause stress but it does. Conscious thought of it may not be there but subconsciously it is. That's if the person is a decent moral upstanding character. Since you have been paying your debt when you did not have to. I will assume that you fall into that sect.
I alluded to that in my previous post and I agree with you. When the wife and I bought a tempurpedic mattress and finally paid it off it did feel good. In the process of paying it off I didn't think about it. It's almost like a monthly subscription.
Whether or not it is subconsciously increasing my stress levels...not sure. Work and kids do a better job of acutely raising those levels.
Welfare rats/Government employees, college students. colleges and universities, damn near every foreign country. These are the largest beneficiaries to socialist programs that I can think of. Probably a thousand more.
Not to sound like a broken record but anyone receiving a government check either through welfare or employment lives outside the system. They produce nothing. They only take and are a drain on those of us who do. Both are benefiting from socialistic policies of big government. A threat at this point. Neither of the two similar subgroups of people I just mentioned pay one cent in taxes. Any money they take and didn’t earn from a working man’s paycheck isn’t his money to begin with. Pretending to put stolen wages from the productive back into the kitty is not paying taxes.
it's bs
you take out a loan, you pay it off
the problem is the cost of education, attack that
you take out a loan, you pay it off
the problem is the cost of education, attack that
10k in loan forgiveness. Nope thats not "paying off" anyones student loans. Tech schools cost more than that. How about attacking the root of the problem instead of trying to cover up the symptoms. College costs way too fucking much money.
There are actually already loan forgiveness programs that will pay all your student loan debt. By doing things like working in a rural low income school district for x amount of years.
There are actually already loan forgiveness programs that will pay all your student loan debt. By doing things like working in a rural low income school district for x amount of years.
I'm going to say that it could easily be argued that in day to day life, during the good times, there isn't much of a difference in taking out a loan for things and paying it off vs. saving up and then buying it. In fact depending on the interest rate you get and the rate of inflation, it might actually be a bit cheaper theoretically.
HOWEVER the big difference is when hard times come, or things suddenly don't go as planned, or you decide your work isn't worth the hassle they put you through, or you decide you won't compromise your beliefs for a paycheck, a big load of regular payments that must be paid is a huge ball and chain and worry, (unless you also have plenty of savings).
Your company demands you get the DeathVaxx and agree to say you are a sinner because of the colour of your skin, well if you don't have a debt load and have some savings, you can say NO, time to walk away a whole lot easier than if there are a bunch of debt bills that must be paid each month.
Other things such as a house, it pays to take out a mortgage as if you rent and then try to save up enough to buy, you may find it almost impossible to do as your rent keeps going up, and the price of houses keeps going up and you are tossing away money to someone else each month.
You misunderstood the prompt. It is well-publicized at this point that there has been actual fraud in the reporting of prospective incomes. The Education Department has already canceled the debt of millions of students who were actually defrauded. Whether they were actually defrauded in each case or not, I have not researched. But the suggestion that if they were defrauded that they are responsible for that is reprehensible.
I do not think it's reasonable to expect 18 year olds to assess the lifetime value of higher education anyway, but if I did, and I wanted to defend that position, I would place serious consideration on the information that is published by schools about what is a realistic expectation if a person were to enter the school, complete the education, and get the average job that the education produces. The only way market participants can have any assessment of "value" is with information, and if the information is an intentional lie that baits the person into a decision that they would otherwise not have made, then holding the victim accountable for someone else's fraud is indefensible.
Of course this also puts aside that some people will never graduate or even be able to graduate from their programs. Those people attempted to make an investment in themselves and failed. Plenty of businessmen do the same thing. Banks loan money to people every day who they expected to be able to pay the money back, but for whatever reason, a small percentage of people are not able to pay the money back. In that situation, we recognize that when their liabilities exceed assets, or they are unable to earn sufficient income to pay the bills as they come due, that they are bankrupt (either of these definitions meet the legal definition of bankruptcy). And for better or worse, it has been the policy in our country throughout its history, to allow those people a fresh start. You may say it is important to make sure this is not abused, and of course I agree with that. But the suggestion that someone should hitch up to the plow for what is a bad business decision forever is absolutely not the policy we apply to any other business that has failed--ONLY student loans are treated in this manner. Those who think the current student loan situation is working just fine ought to ask themselves how these situations are different.
I don't think people really believe that there are physicians out there who would literally give their license up forever in exchange for being free of their debt. Those people are not asking to have their cake and eat it, too. Instead, they are asking the community to recognize that unlike murdering someone or some other horrific crime, being held accountable for the rest of your life for one bad decision is unconscionable.
I hope that we figure out a way to have a serious discussion about this that is actually nuanced and not just one side wanting to hand free money to people who do not need or want it. Believe it or not, this is the case of what happened to me yesterday, the $20k in forgiveness I'm going to get does not help me at all and I would gladly give it to someone else or forego it if that were an option, because it does nothing to improve my situation at all.
I will also point out that if you are reading this, whether you believe it or not, if I had a time machine, I would have never fathomed being in this situation in a million years. I joined the military before I graduated from high school and never had any intention of going to college. If I could go back 20 years and tell my younger self that I'd be in this situation, I doubt my younger self would even believe it. But it is real and I'm living it. I have a way out and in ~2 years or so, I will be free of this ball and chain, in exchange for my public service, which I will likely continue until I retire because what I do is a needed public service. But even after I get out of this hole myself, I will recognize that there are others in shitty situations and that they have to have some hope of getting out, because telling them to hitch up for a lifetime of hopelessness is not an answer no matter what your position is on their bad decision.
The military had a program (probably still does) that paid for college and gave the student a paycheck while going to school. After graduation their contract started for so many years. A similar program for big corporations should be looked into. They can guide the students in courses needed to help the corporation and the students won't have the debt or the employment uncertainty.
And a higher Inflation rate to Hyperinflation
I skimmed this wall of text and seen you stroke your cock with the whole working in “public service” myth and then again telling how important you are because of how much this public service is needed and that you will steal from the working man until you retire and then continue to steal until the day you die with your retirement benefits. You are another big gov’t socialist just like all the rest who make a living stealing from the public and pretending it’s service which in reality is nothing more than fucking your countrymen who actually produce.
When a person/group of people start a business and need capital they have to take a business plan to a bank. It's scrutinized by many bank officials to determine if it is viable for them to loan money and make a profit. They don't just hand out money with a payment schedule.
If you went over $200K in school debt without doing some research on the potential. That's on you. And unlike you the banks take the hit for the loss not the taxpayers. If it's true that you were defrauded I would bet that there's an attorney waiting to get rich with a class action.
Personal responsibility. Sometimes it's a tough medicine.
If you went over $200K in school debt without doing some research on the potential. That's on you. And unlike you the banks take the hit for the loss not the taxpayers. If it's true that you were defrauded I would bet that there's an attorney waiting to get rich with a class action.
Seems like you have come up with a lot of excuses and blame for your situation.
Personal responsibility. Sometimes it's a tough medicine.
Your response sounds like you haven't read what I've said at all.
If a bank makes a bad loan, the person goes bankrupt and either pays some of it or it is extinguished in bankruptcy. This is true in all commercial lending, whether it's for a shitty car or a giant corporation. There is no set of circumstances in our entire economy where a debtor who literally cannot pay has no avenue for relief, except for student debt. Whether you agree with that policy or not, all bankruptcy law is federal law and it happens literally every day. It is how our country works. We let people take risks with other people's money because the ones that are successful in that FAR outnumber those who fail. We're all better off in a system where entropeneurs can do so.
I don't know why I feel inclined to respond to insults, but was my military service on the public teat as well? While you were sitting at home in mommy's basement and I wrote a blank check to uncle sugar, was that just a welfare program to you?
In your world, do public servants, whether they are police officers, teachers, judges, firefighters, or whatever, do they produce anything? Are you seriously suggesting that these are not valuable public services that every civilized society has to have? Certainly there is waste and abuse, but you cannot possibly, in the year 2022, think that there are literally no government or nonprofit employees who provide a valuable benefit to society, could you? Are the people who work for the Cato Institute, Institute for Justice, JFPO, etc., who litigated the Supreme Court cases that vindicated our Second Amendment rights before the Supreme Court in Heller and McDonald are they all on the public teat as well?
I don't know how your state works, but both the federal pension and my state's pensions are paid for by the participant through a reduction from their paychecks. What definition of socialism would you operate under where a person's works for a benefit that they are required to pay for and then that is somehow a handout? Would you feel better if I was able to waive my pension? Because let me tell you, there were times in my life where I would have been much better off with the 9% they take from me in my paycheck rather than having that be taken from me.
It seems strange to me that we make policies, some of which are terribly misguided and stupid, and then blame the people who have to live in the world of those policies. If I had a magic wand, none of these policies would exist. But it seems like you would blame a single mother for going to get food stamps for her starving children rather than sign up for a program that maybe she didn't support or want? What kind of world does this sort of utter lack of critical thinking constitute the republican form of government that our Constitution guarantees?
The money withheld from your paycheck wasn’t your money to begin with. Your gov job whatever it is only exists because of the armed robbery of the producers in the working sector. It was taken by force under the threat of a gov’t hired gun from someone who produces then handed to you against their will. Now you just complained that you wanted even more of which you didn’t earn. Gross.
I'm not all that convinced that we need any more government meddling or subsidies for higher education. This would probably be far better than the current situation, but really the solution is that we need to get back to a sane level of spending on higher education so that the price can drop to something people can realistically pay. Right now it exists in some fantasy monopoly money world that is utterly unsustainable.
I would actually like to see more focus on trade school education. The data are pretty clear that we need technicians and tradesmen and these jobs pay well and go unfilled. I used to work in the trades and I've thought many times to go back to it and I may do so one day.
Are the communists still in control of Venezuela? How about the Chinese communists? Once the elites have power, they don't give it up. Don't think there will be a 'big' turning point. Just more grab and reach until those that conform work and those that don't disappear.
If you don't conform, you are unwanted and will be erased.
don't forget, 80% of the population is slated to be 'culled' or 'trimmed'. Bill gates and the WEF will see to that.
So it's your position that because you don't agree with the existence of government, that the government employees who performed public services are not entitled to be paid for those services? Like you seriously believe that the police officer patrolling the streets by your house is not only an entirely illegitimate armed robbery of you and your neighbors but also that he is not entitled to be paid for the service he is presently rendering to you?
Correct. I’m forced to pay for services that aren’t necessary and that I and millions like me don’t want. I would argue that most aren’t services at all just like in the example of police you spoke of. Their job is to protect the state, not us. There is nothing the gov’t sector can do and no decision anybody inside can make that men who want to be left the hell alone couldn’t do or make better themselves. This is true no matter how hard you shill and partake in big gov’t socialism.
Last edited:
Okay, so you're an anarchist. I have many friends who are anarchists, so I'm not disparaging your position, but there's literally nothing that could be said that would make a difference for you, because apparently no matter how small the government is, it is, to you, "big gov't socialism."
Even if your utopian vision was reality, which obviously I disagree with but you might be surprised that we agree more that we disagree, we do not live in a world that has no government. We live in a world that has a government, where the public relies on the fact that we have certain government services, among those being the military, police, fire, ambulance in some communities, etc., not to mention courts to resolve disputes. So in that real world, where those people are providing actual services to you, from which you benefit, those people are entitled to be paid. They are not slaves. They are not guilty of creating the system you despise. They are simply responding to the world of incentives that actually exist, rather than the ones you (and maybe I, too), wish existed.
I usually don't take out a loan unless it's 0% interest. Obviously this doesn't include the mortgage or student loans. More recently i've heard they have done away with this option for cars so it will include my next vehicle as well.
You are correct though, all debt is an imprisonment and reduces one's capacity to act as a free individual.
Sometimes things are a bit funny.
I took out a small car loan this year for a new vehicle to keep a bit more cash liquid while waiting for the government to send me some money.
(I could fully pay it off if I wanted to).
The interest rate was 2.25% (which was a bummer as in December it was 1.6%) But then 3 months later, the same bank that holds the loan was sending me offers of 3% interest payment for CDs and that was before the latest round of hikes.
Almost a bit tempting to not pay it off in a hurry, and just park the payoff money back with them and keep the difference on interest, but I'll probably just go ahead and pay it off as not having a loan means I can have a higher deductible which will probably save me a bit more than the split between the interest rates after you factor in taxes on the interest.
I understand the world we live but I nevertheless look down on those that willingly take part in what I fundamentally believe is not only wrong but evil. I don’t know if you believe or not in the story of Adam and Eave, but we can learn a little either way. Just because something exists and it is enticing doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do or partake in.
And now the guys like me who were smart and went to a community college immediately college that I paid for my damn self get to foot the bill for all of these fuck mooks who decided that they need to get a loan for 200k to get that degree in feminist dance study, or the ones that acupuncture did a good degree for something smart but still cost them way too much because the government got involved a long time ago and guarantee these fucking loans.
Just one more way to divide the holy hell out of this country and make us hate each other even more
Just one more way to divide the holy hell out of this country and make us hate each other even more
Yea, not a bad idea. I would have a higher deductible if my wife didn't think she was constantly in a demolition derby.
The "False Idols" started early and are still going strong....... Evil
When you can find two American's in agreement, post a photo. Like Hen's Teeth.
Then choose to not hate. No matter what you do the government will misuse your money. Whether it is for college loans, welfare...whatever program it will get used in a way you didn't intend or want.
Just be happy you are debt free and pass that knowledge of your experience onto those who will listen.
I tell kids my story all the time and tell them get your first two years done at a CC. Then go to a state school and finish. My story is more of a story on what not to do (private school then finish at a state school).
The information is the same no matter where you go; college is what you put into it. Where it differs is the connections you garner (Ivy's).
Well, I don't think having a police department is immoral. In fact, I think that's exactly what progressives do. They moralize everything. Having a police department is a policy judgment that the people get to decide through their elected representatives (remember that republican form of government?). Having a police department is morally irrelevant. You can say taxation is theft or extortion if you want, but the reality is that anarchistic societies don't have very functional markets at all. The idea that you'd have whatever resources you have in the absence of the rule of law is, in my view, false. And either way, you've paid for the services they're rendering, so even if you wouldn't have otherwise bought them, you deserve the protection just like everyone else, and those who provide it deserve to be paid.
The people decided to have a police department a long time ago and there is no political will to change that. Even if you regard that decision as illegitimate, you could still recognize that it's never going to change and behave accordingly. And if you thought enjoying the protection of the police or military was immoral, rest easy tonight. Civilization exists partially because of these things and there is no moral issue at all to battle with here. And our system is such that you can petition your fellow citizens to get rid of the police department if you think that's a productive use of your time.
The real world has a nasty habit of making it impossible to have a perfect system.
This country didn't have much of any standing military at first but found out before long that you needed a navy that could go kick ass on the other side of the pond if you didn't want to spend over 10% of your GDP on dealing with blackmail.
It's probably not possible these days to have a country without a standing military of sorts unless you like pay someone else to be your army or such.
Also with crime and such, the whole doing it yourself works well in small settings but once you get to big towns and cities, you have to pay somehow for some kind of dedicated folks to keep criminals from roaming around and getting away.
Then of course someone wants money for administrating all that and somebody to help run things and before you know it, you are stuck back into having a government of sorts and then if you allow that voting thing well next thing you know your stupid descendants will be voting for a bigger government to "help them".
That's why our founders wanted limited government. But they didn't want no government. They tried that with the Articles of Confederation.
I do find it interesting that the insults continued even where I said I'd stay in public service past the 10 years though. A good friend of mine quit and he's making double what I make for a job that is easier than mine in the private sector. Who, in my position, would stay, if they could make double elsewhere? The answer is that there are people who are actual public servants who sacrifice their own benefits for the good of others, just as I did when I joined the military. Obviously it isn't priceless, but sometimes doing a good job for the benefit of the public has its rewards. The anarchists here may not understand that, and that's fine too. If what I did was pointless bureaucratic bullshit, I might feel differently, but it isn't.
Is this still available?
Yes. It was passed into law in 2007. And it isn't just 10 years--you have to make 120, on time payments while in public service, which includes private nonprofit work.
Pfft probably lucky if it's that low.
going to try writing off my loan for 100 million dollars for a tank that thinks it's a student loan .
I’ll quit picking on you after this.
I don’t know that I am an anarchist. I do know that I am against everything this gov’t is and ever could be. Some like to use the saying “don’t throw the baby out with the bath water” but can never further explain how what is obviously not only corrupted but pure satanic evil could ever be reformed and restored to anything resembling a benevolent system? Many such as yourself believe that good guys on the inside make a difference. That’s akin to me joining MS13 expecting to become something similar to the girl scouts. This thinking is nothing more than a therapeutic coping mechanism used to convince one’s self that we are somehow not controlled and enslaved by evil men. It’s a lie and dishonest. Do you think organizations such as MS13, the mexican drug cartel, or even the middle east extremists combined hold a candle to the violence, poverty, and deaths as a direct result of a few evil men at the top of governments controlling millions of useful idiots by hypnotizing them using terms such as patriotism, public service, protecting the motherland, amongst others?
Unnecessary wars based on lies, Nation building (money laundering), covid attack, over taxation, intentional inflation, open borders, political prisoners, election fraud, weaponized and militarized law enforcement, selective prosecution, two tier justice, activist judges, massive welfare both foreign and domestic, illegal surveillance of citizens using phony warrants or none at all, grooming of our children, child mutilation and sterilization, political and racial discrimination, destruction of Christianity, and the destruction of families. These are a few things that government is GUILTY of that I came up with without having to stop typing and think. I could easily double the list with a few minutes of thought.
There is no good guy capable of changing this shit from the inside. He is only adding lower to the system itself. I view all in government including the low level employee as being either active conspirators, complicit of it once recognized, or ignorant to the realities. Either way the end result is tyranny. Every single person in all institutions work together with directives starting at the top and carried out towards the bottom. I can not look past the man that is “just doing his job” working for this Satanic behemoth of a gov’t.
I agree
