I know what it is, i know its a good suppressed round for a scilencer... but ballistically speaking... what fps do they run? What kinda of effective range does it have? Its a fun looking little round, but i just cant figure out where it fits to justify buying one to play with... i dont see it being capable of good knockdown power out too far... just wondering where they fit best... whats their nitch?...
- Thread starter Sniper260
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Supersonic, 110-120gr bullets mimic 7.62x39 ballistics. Hunting wise you'd be good 300-400 yards. For target shooting...people have shot them out to 1000 yards....but really id say 600-800 yards is around my max. FPS is ~2000-2200fps
Subsonic , 200-220gr bullets....Hunting wise i wouldnt shoot anything much past 100 yards. For target shooting it becomes a how much elevation does your scope/iron sights have. They drop like crazy after 200 yards. FPS being under 1050fps
Their nitch is definitely in the subsonic, suppressed realm. They are damn quiet but still have good knockdown power out to some distance. Their other nitch is the fact they are cheap and brass is easily made. Convert 223 brass and you have your 300blk brass
Subsonic , 200-220gr bullets....Hunting wise i wouldnt shoot anything much past 100 yards. For target shooting it becomes a how much elevation does your scope/iron sights have. They drop like crazy after 200 yards. FPS being under 1050fps
Their nitch is definitely in the subsonic, suppressed realm. They are damn quiet but still have good knockdown power out to some distance. Their other nitch is the fact they are cheap and brass is easily made. Convert 223 brass and you have your 300blk brass
This is an interesting perspective on 300BLK.
Also a great, efficient cartridge for short barrel rifles and AR pistols. 9" is about all you need to convert most of the powder energy into bullet speed (and not into flame and blast like with a 5.56).
That is a great point and the video holdstillplease posted mentions that too. Really that video covers a lot of the advantages of the caliber. They were hitting 750 meter with a ~9inch barrel (they never say exactly what it is if i remember right) which was pretty impressive.
Honestly its one thing im enjoying about the caliber. It works great in everything from being super quiet to shooting some good distances all depending on how you load it.
In a 16" barrel carbine 110 grain bullets can be loaded to 2350-2400 fps. M80 147 FMJ's run 1900-2000 fps. With 125 gr. bullets which are a good hunting weight for the 300 BLK they get around 2200 fps. In AR's you use standard mags and the only thing different is the barrel. It uses smaller charges of slow pistol powders, cases are cheaper than other special calibers and can be made from .223 brass. You can shoot most 30 caliber bullets up to 220 grains. Works well in pistol length or carbine length barrels. Makes a good short range hunting round out to 150 yards, wouldn't try anything longer. People use them for deer and wild hogs effectively. Versatility and availability of cheaper components are the main benefits. Recoil is very light and noise levels are even less than .223. Definitely a short range rifle but with good ballistic bullets they would be fun to play with at longer ranges, just not for hunting. Fun to shoot and fun to load!
I would say it is on par with the 30-30 and 7.62x39 (just a bit slower) but can be mag fed better Out of an AR and sounds cooler.
The concept has been around for more than 20 years. 221-300, 300 fireball and 300 whisper were the ones that paved the road and more or less the same thing. The 300blk just made a "standard" for the wildcat round.
In the gun world, to make money you have to make something new sometimes.
What if everyone realized that the 30-06, 30-30 and .22 swift could do anything the "new" rounds could do and date from the late 1800's all the way to 1936?
Makes for a pretty small collection doesn't it. That's not cool either.
The concept has been around for more than 20 years. 221-300, 300 fireball and 300 whisper were the ones that paved the road and more or less the same thing. The 300blk just made a "standard" for the wildcat round.
In the gun world, to make money you have to make something new sometimes.
What if everyone realized that the 30-06, 30-30 and .22 swift could do anything the "new" rounds could do and date from the late 1800's all the way to 1936?
Makes for a pretty small collection doesn't it. That's not cool either.
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They are very fun to shoot especially with a suppressor.
Like the gentleman above said it isn't anything new. It is funny how calibers come in waves with a new name but they are ballistically very close to the case they were based off.
Like the gentleman above said it isn't anything new. It is funny how calibers come in waves with a new name but they are ballistically very close to the case they were based off.
I didn't watch the video but have a few quick points:
1. With a 9' barrel, it is loud, even suppressed. I've owned a 10.5 (shortest I could run with my can) and even with a very quiet load it is nowhere near Hollywood quiet. Just be ready for that.
2. Many suppressor manufacturers have a minimum barrel length, and for many it is between 10-12'.
3. The 110-barnes bullets expand well and hit harder than I thought they would.
4. In subsonic, it is ALL about shot placement. ALL!
5. Having owned and used many 300WTFs, I prefer reticles with lots of drop on the reticle, as the bullet goes down like a cheerleader on prom night.
1. With a 9' barrel, it is loud, even suppressed. I've owned a 10.5 (shortest I could run with my can) and even with a very quiet load it is nowhere near Hollywood quiet. Just be ready for that.
2. Many suppressor manufacturers have a minimum barrel length, and for many it is between 10-12'.
3. The 110-barnes bullets expand well and hit harder than I thought they would.
4. In subsonic, it is ALL about shot placement. ALL!
5. Having owned and used many 300WTFs, I prefer reticles with lots of drop on the reticle, as the bullet goes down like a cheerleader on prom night.
I think the energy benefits alone make a very compelling argument. The improvement over 9mm and .45 ACP (including +P loads) with subsonic loads are very good. The benefits over 5.56 and 7.62x39 are not huge but are significant. I think there might be some compelling arguments for having the US military switch from 5.56 and the pistol caliber sub-machine guns. Either way, I'm keeping mine.
Those that say this round will do 1000 yards are jerking their roots. With a 150 grain they enter the transonic realm about 400 to 500 yards. After that, they are done. Most guys cant get 1000 yards out of a .308 and some say they shoot 1000 yards with a 300 Blackout?
Give me a fucking break. 1 minute of house does not count when saying a weapon is good to 1000 yards.
A 300 Blackout will allow you to shoot the heaviest bullet you will ever be able to put in a 223 mag. Period. It is the difference between shooting a golf ball and a bowling ball. You get much more terminal performance out of a heavy 30 caliber bullet than a fast 22 caliber one. That being said, a 300 blackout is hell on pigs in the 100 yard range and I would imagine if I was going door to door looking for zombies, it would be my round of choice. That is what it's good for, killing bad guys in CQC.
220 grain subsonics have one good use, killing people quietly at close range. The supersonic's up to 150 grains are great for shooting pigs and small deer and are still pretty quiet with the right suppressor, problem is you still hear the sonic crack from the round traveling supersonic. Your first shot and every pig you missed will be gone. I would not hunt with a subsonic 300 blackout because 220 grain bullets will not expand going less than 1000 fps. There is a difference between instantly dead and dieing from a gunshot wound. 220 grain subsonic's will leave a pig or deer to die from a gunshot wound in most cases where shooting them with a fast hitting 150 at 2000 fps in the head or heart will most often kill them instantly.
I have 3 of them, 2 rifles and a pistol, I enjoy the hell out of them, great fun to shoot and a good use for all my fired 223 brass.
Give me a fucking break. 1 minute of house does not count when saying a weapon is good to 1000 yards.
A 300 Blackout will allow you to shoot the heaviest bullet you will ever be able to put in a 223 mag. Period. It is the difference between shooting a golf ball and a bowling ball. You get much more terminal performance out of a heavy 30 caliber bullet than a fast 22 caliber one. That being said, a 300 blackout is hell on pigs in the 100 yard range and I would imagine if I was going door to door looking for zombies, it would be my round of choice. That is what it's good for, killing bad guys in CQC.
220 grain subsonics have one good use, killing people quietly at close range. The supersonic's up to 150 grains are great for shooting pigs and small deer and are still pretty quiet with the right suppressor, problem is you still hear the sonic crack from the round traveling supersonic. Your first shot and every pig you missed will be gone. I would not hunt with a subsonic 300 blackout because 220 grain bullets will not expand going less than 1000 fps. There is a difference between instantly dead and dieing from a gunshot wound. 220 grain subsonic's will leave a pig or deer to die from a gunshot wound in most cases where shooting them with a fast hitting 150 at 2000 fps in the head or heart will most often kill them instantly.
I have 3 of them, 2 rifles and a pistol, I enjoy the hell out of them, great fun to shoot and a good use for all my fired 223 brass.
How about the .458 SOCOM?
What energy benefits? A 230g 45 cal bullet going subsonic has more energy than a 220g .30 cal bullet at the same speed.
Not only that but you don't even have to reload to get a 255g SS 45 acp load.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/24...acp-p-255-grain-hard-cast-flat-nose-box-of-20
That also brings up another point, 30 cal bullets designed for speeds around 2800fps don't work as intended at slow speeds, might as well be FMJ's at subsonic speeds.
The only way to gain energy once you put a subsonic speed limit inplace is with mass. As Pinecone noted the 458 socom is king in that area 400, 500+grain bullets are something you just can't get in .30 cal.
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My +P defensive 45 ACP loads are 220gr going 990, faster than typical .45 ball ammo, but still slower than a subsonic blackout round of the same bullet weight going 1050 or a bit more. Terminal ballistics is another topic, one I know little about, but a lot of hog hunters get by just fine on subsonic 30BLK.
Sure, 458 SOCOM has more energy than 300BLK, but it has downsides that the blackout doesn't, such as reduced mag capacity, high recoil, and it's more difficult (almost impossible?) to stay on target in full auto.
Sure, 458 SOCOM has more energy than 300BLK, but it has downsides that the blackout doesn't, such as reduced mag capacity, high recoil, and it's more difficult (almost impossible?) to stay on target in full auto.
I find the 300 blk to be good for close range hog blastin. Not perfect, but very good. Very mild recoil makes for fast follow up shots, fair terminal performance from the 125 grain bullets (ballistic tip, accubond, TNT), less "snap" (if that makes sense) than the 223 and much better penetration. If you want to mortally wound and preferable kill outright as many pigs in the group as possible the blackout is hard to beat. The Grendel, SPC, and x 39 all are good too but have other issues
Also subsonics are very fun!
Also subsonics are very fun!
Problem with 45 ACP is long range accuracy. Bullet is not designed to go far. BC for a XTP 240 grain is .16, BC for a 240 Sierra BTHP is .71. You are going to get a lot more distance out of a HP 30 caliber bullet than you are a blunt nosed 45 HP.
Now I know you are going to want to refer back to this:
But you need to clarify that statement. How will they not work as intended? They are intended to be consistently accurate, nothing more. They are not a hunting bullet by design, but they will certainly kill something. Even at slow speeds, as long as they do not break the sound barrier and destabilize, they are more accurate than a FMJ simply because their aerodynamics and BC surpasses that of a FMJ.
So in the end, because of the high BC a boat tail hollow point maintains at 100 yards, it will deliver more energy at that distance than a 45 will. Even at 25 yards it will deliver more energy because it retains more at that distance than a 45 does if both were fired at the same velocity.
BC trumps equal weight and equal muzzle velocity.
#1, Kinetic energy never killed nobody. Anybody tells you they can tell you with any certainty how much kinetic energy a bullet needs to kill something/anything is blowing smoke up your skirt. You kill shit by either letting out enough blood to deprive the brain of oxygen or breaking some critical component of the organic life support system. Unlike momentum, there is no principle of physics dictating that KE must be conserved. Penetration favors mass because momentum must be conserved. Professor Newton told us so. Momentum is for killing. Kinetic energy is for ad campaigns.
#2, There is no hydrostatic shock at subsonic velocities to create tissue crush injuries (the "temporary" wound cavity), so either objective (from #1, above) is best accomplished by drilling the widest, deepest hole (permanent wound cavity) you can. If two holes are of equal depth, the wider hole wins. Every time.
#3, At subsonic velocities, the vast majority of conventional CF rifle bullets do not expand reliably. This is the .300AAC's particular Achilles' heel: lack of suitable commercially-available projectiles. If they don't expand or experience upset (resulting in tumbling), all you'll get is an ice pick wound. And upset is less likely because dedicated subsonic barrels always have a tighter twists than "regular" (1:8 in the case of the .300AAC). So the bullet will have better stability on penetration than if fired from a "regular" barrel, reducing the tendency to tumble.
That might yield better penetration, but with an extremely narrow wound channel. Which reduces the statistical probability of encountering a vital organ. It's even possible for vital organs to be directly in the bullet's path, but only get gently pushed aside undamaged by glancing off the ogive. Less likely with a blunt bullet. Even in bullets of the same caliber, at SSS velocities, blunt ogives have been demonstrated to cause more extensive tissue damage than pointy ones. And, as in this case, if the blunter bullet also happens to be of a larger caliber, that just magnifies it potential advantages because it will be plowing the wider furrow, and stands a higher statistical probability of breaking something vital.
A cylinder .452" in diameter has a cross-sectional area a bit more than twice that of a cylinder .308" diameter. Therefore the permanent wound channel created by a non-expanding .45 ACP bullet typically will involve twice as much tissue as a non-expanding .308 Win bullet (stipulating equal penetration). Which equals twice the odds of inflicting a lethal injury.
#4, There is dramatically less drag at SSS velocities (no supersonic "wave form" drag), which minimizes differences in aerodynamic efficiency. In this application, the CF rifle bullet's slim aerodynamic advantage doesn't come anywhere close to making up for its terminal effects disadvantages to a blunter, larger caliber bullet of similar weight.
If both bullets have a 900 fps MV, sure enough, a 220 grain SMK will have 5.5% more retained velocity @100 yards than a 230gr .45 ball (according to JBM), but the 230-grainer still gets to more than 200 yards before it falls below 750 fps. That's still a ferocious force, and still will stomp anything it made sense to hunt with a .45 to begin with. With a 100-yard zero, there's only 2" difference in the drop of the two bullets @200 yards. Not exactly earth-shattering.
5. Except for implications to danger space and wind drift, BC does not influence accuracy.
Which is why my next AR will be a .450 Bushmaster. Which, BTW, shoots a bullet nearly 3x as heavy as anything you can stuff into a .300 AAC. From regular AR mags. Yeah, you lose magazine capacity, but wadda ya want for nothing? Rubber biscuit?
Bonus points, the .450 Bushy shares the same bolt face as the .30 Remington AR, which has substantially better supersonic performance than the .300 AAC, about 600 fps more MV with 125-grainers. And it also uses AR mags. It's not a round that's in good commercial health, but that has more to do with the company than with the cartridge. And since I reload, all I need to is stock up on brass and I'm set for life, even if it vanishes from store shelves.
Both the .458SOCOM and the .300AAC were created after 18 May, 1986 so there are no legally transferable fully-automatic examples of either in existence. None. That's this many: 0. So other than clutching at straws (or maybe post-purchase rationalization), I fail to see what your point is.
#2, There is no hydrostatic shock at subsonic velocities to create tissue crush injuries (the "temporary" wound cavity), so either objective (from #1, above) is best accomplished by drilling the widest, deepest hole (permanent wound cavity) you can. If two holes are of equal depth, the wider hole wins. Every time.
#3, At subsonic velocities, the vast majority of conventional CF rifle bullets do not expand reliably. This is the .300AAC's particular Achilles' heel: lack of suitable commercially-available projectiles. If they don't expand or experience upset (resulting in tumbling), all you'll get is an ice pick wound. And upset is less likely because dedicated subsonic barrels always have a tighter twists than "regular" (1:8 in the case of the .300AAC). So the bullet will have better stability on penetration than if fired from a "regular" barrel, reducing the tendency to tumble.
That might yield better penetration, but with an extremely narrow wound channel. Which reduces the statistical probability of encountering a vital organ. It's even possible for vital organs to be directly in the bullet's path, but only get gently pushed aside undamaged by glancing off the ogive. Less likely with a blunt bullet. Even in bullets of the same caliber, at SSS velocities, blunt ogives have been demonstrated to cause more extensive tissue damage than pointy ones. And, as in this case, if the blunter bullet also happens to be of a larger caliber, that just magnifies it potential advantages because it will be plowing the wider furrow, and stands a higher statistical probability of breaking something vital.
A cylinder .452" in diameter has a cross-sectional area a bit more than twice that of a cylinder .308" diameter. Therefore the permanent wound channel created by a non-expanding .45 ACP bullet typically will involve twice as much tissue as a non-expanding .308 Win bullet (stipulating equal penetration). Which equals twice the odds of inflicting a lethal injury.
#4, There is dramatically less drag at SSS velocities (no supersonic "wave form" drag), which minimizes differences in aerodynamic efficiency. In this application, the CF rifle bullet's slim aerodynamic advantage doesn't come anywhere close to making up for its terminal effects disadvantages to a blunter, larger caliber bullet of similar weight.
If both bullets have a 900 fps MV, sure enough, a 220 grain SMK will have 5.5% more retained velocity @100 yards than a 230gr .45 ball (according to JBM), but the 230-grainer still gets to more than 200 yards before it falls below 750 fps. That's still a ferocious force, and still will stomp anything it made sense to hunt with a .45 to begin with. With a 100-yard zero, there's only 2" difference in the drop of the two bullets @200 yards. Not exactly earth-shattering.
5. Except for implications to danger space and wind drift, BC does not influence accuracy.
Which is why my next AR will be a .450 Bushmaster. Which, BTW, shoots a bullet nearly 3x as heavy as anything you can stuff into a .300 AAC. From regular AR mags. Yeah, you lose magazine capacity, but wadda ya want for nothing? Rubber biscuit?
Bonus points, the .450 Bushy shares the same bolt face as the .30 Remington AR, which has substantially better supersonic performance than the .300 AAC, about 600 fps more MV with 125-grainers. And it also uses AR mags. It's not a round that's in good commercial health, but that has more to do with the company than with the cartridge. And since I reload, all I need to is stock up on brass and I'm set for life, even if it vanishes from store shelves.
Okay, you've piqued my interest. How far was the .45 ACP intended to go? Because knowing how far it wasn't intended to go necessarily is dependent on the knowledge of how far it was intended to go. If you know one, you must know the other. So please enlighten me.
Have a lot of trigger time with full auto .458SOCOMs, do you?
Both the .458SOCOM and the .300AAC were created after 18 May, 1986 so there are no legally transferable fully-automatic examples of either in existence. None. That's this many: 0. So other than clutching at straws (or maybe post-purchase rationalization), I fail to see what your point is.
Uh... ...no.
Uh Yes, because you are going to get a much deeper wound with the 30 cal than the 45 so if you want to take this as far as tissue damage, you are going to get a lot more from a longer, deeper wound of a smaller diameter that a shallow wider one. If I hit someone in the head with X force with an ice pick i'm going to sink it in their head to the handle (And they will be very dead regardless if my pick has an expanding shaft or not), I hit them in the head with 17% less force using the blunt end I am going to give them a headache and really piss them off.
My ballistic calculator shows there to be a 17% increase in terminal energy at 100 yards with a 240 SMK over the same weight 45 traveling at 1050 FPS so you need to recheck your numbers. Your 5.5% is wrong.
You do realize there is a better solution if you want to get 450 grain lead bricks down range? Buy a cheap Mossberg 500 for $250, load it with 1 oz. slugs and there ya go! If you think a 450 Bushmaster is so hot, you have obviously been reading too much Wikipedia.
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Oh come on you know the uppers can be swapped out. So full auto fun can be had in many calibers.
223
5.56
300-221
22lr
9mm
Those are calibers I have been able to shoot from a m-16. His 223 upper came from a space gun. Shooting it prone with a bipod was too cool. Granted back when 22lr was every where that upper was the most fun.
223
5.56
300-221
22lr
9mm
Those are calibers I have been able to shoot from a m-16. His 223 upper came from a space gun. Shooting it prone with a bipod was too cool. Granted back when 22lr was every where that upper was the most fun.
Why do so many people hate the .300 BLK? I personally really like the round. Who cares if one bullet is "better" or "faster". I just get one one of each!
I have no bones about the .300BLK, it was one of the rounds I was considering for a 200-300yd match cartridge. I ended up choosing the .30BR; figuring that if I was going to go for a niche cartridge, I'd use one with a very good BR rep, especially with a standard .473" diameter bolt face. It's good, it just didn't have such great luck in my hands.
I also picked up a Savage 10FCM Scout chambered for 7.62x39, figuring I'd someday build something PPC-ish on the action.
But the x39 turned out to be pretty much of a mini-dominatrix with handloads. For 100-200yd and with the 110V-Max, it's not half bad for 'Chucks, and with SRA 125 Pro Hunters, I'd use it out to 150-200yd on deer. It's a tempting choice as a multipurpose lightweight rifle for my Mini-Mouse Granddaughter, who's starting College this Fall and loves shooting. It has a .308 bore and is chambered with a forcing cone that accommodate the foreign ammo, which may have some benefits from a logistics standpoint. But the handloads are the ticket to this particular little Nirvana.
BTW, the x39 case would be my preference if I were looking seriously into subsonics, and the Savage 10FCM Scout action would be the foundation for such a rifle. I think this is an overlooked gem of a combination that a lot of folks are just missing the message about.
Greg
I also picked up a Savage 10FCM Scout chambered for 7.62x39, figuring I'd someday build something PPC-ish on the action.
But the x39 turned out to be pretty much of a mini-dominatrix with handloads. For 100-200yd and with the 110V-Max, it's not half bad for 'Chucks, and with SRA 125 Pro Hunters, I'd use it out to 150-200yd on deer. It's a tempting choice as a multipurpose lightweight rifle for my Mini-Mouse Granddaughter, who's starting College this Fall and loves shooting. It has a .308 bore and is chambered with a forcing cone that accommodate the foreign ammo, which may have some benefits from a logistics standpoint. But the handloads are the ticket to this particular little Nirvana.
BTW, the x39 case would be my preference if I were looking seriously into subsonics, and the Savage 10FCM Scout action would be the foundation for such a rifle. I think this is an overlooked gem of a combination that a lot of folks are just missing the message about.
Greg
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I am, now that suppressor hunting is legal in AL, in the beginnings of development of 300BLK deer sized game loads. I guess I just like the idea of harvesting a deer with my AR/suppressed platform. Even though I have a 300BLK SBR I will most likely use the 16" upper instead for the little extra velocity. I do plan on checking that with the Magnetospeed before a final decision.
The 300BLK in subsonic form, IMHO, has no more recoil than any 556 load, less flash, and would perform admirably as a CQB rifle for home work. I've seen 208 AMAX deer kills and they are damn impressive.
The 300BLK in subsonic form, IMHO, has no more recoil than any 556 load, less flash, and would perform admirably as a CQB rifle for home work. I've seen 208 AMAX deer kills and they are damn impressive.
The reason the 7.62X39 isn't used for subsonics is that the case capacity is too large for available bullet weights. Any more space than that which is needed merely causes issues with consistency as powder can fall anywhere in the case. It creates issues with ignition that change pressures and velocities and take it out of the reasonable subsonic choices. The 300 whisper/blackout or whatever you want to call these has just the right amount of case capacity to allow subsonic loadings even with bullets too light to make any sense. Since there isn't much room left in the case when the bullet and powder are in place, the powder can't fall down the side of the case or pile up against the bullet away from the primer. I know a number of guys who have used or tried to use the 7.62X39 for subs and found that its not worth the effort. The other issue is rifling twist rates for the round. Unless you make something up from scratch you'll find that the standard twist rate for the round limits it to bullet weights that are pretty senseless for subsonics. What good is a 125gr subsonic in 30 cal? BC sucks so velocity falls quickly making range very short. Energy with the lightweight bullets is low too. On the other hand if you can toss a 220 or 240gr slug like the matchkings or Bergers than you can actually shoot at pretty long range. Velocity on those long heavy weights holds up well even out to 1000yds and while drop at 1000 is huge it is consistent. That means you can actually hit things on purpose at that range and with over 800fps remaining at 1000 using a 240gr Matchking there is enough energy to do something. You need a twist rate of 1-7 or 1-8 to make them fly right. For these reasons the X39 isn't in the group of reasonable choices for subs. I don't know anything about the savage rifles but I do know the remingtons have problems with extraction and ejection. They tend to drop the fired case in the receiver due to the short case and the method of ejection they use. . .
Frank
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Thank you for straightening out my thinking. Since I have yet to try subsonics, my thinking on the subject has(had) flaws. I was wondering about how to make the heavies work, and had no clue that the x39 was too big in the case capacity department. Your explanation has helped me understand my deficiencies. Thus is the first instance someone has managed to bring this stuff home to me, thanks again.
But the x39 still makes some sense for the applications in which I'm using it. Remembering that the VC put it to great use, and their being of smaller stature than many of us Marines, it makes sense as a rifle for my Granddaughter to get close to. 5' 3" and 117lb, she can still shoot her way out of anyone's paper bag and make that x39 something to take seriously.
Greg
But the x39 still makes some sense for the applications in which I'm using it. Remembering that the VC put it to great use, and their being of smaller stature than many of us Marines, it makes sense as a rifle for my Granddaughter to get close to. 5' 3" and 117lb, she can still shoot her way out of anyone's paper bag and make that x39 something to take seriously.
Greg
Glad to help and hope I don't sound like I'm trying to give you a hard time. I've been playing with the subs for quite some time now and have built quite a few rifles and barrels for others. There are a few good sites that cover a lot of this info as well so have a look at some of them. quarterbore.com has a 300 whisper board....or they did anyway. Lots of guys there shooting strictly subs. I know there were a few other boards but I've been so busy lately with other stuff I haven't been keeping up....
I also agree with you that the 7.62X39 is a very good round for a lot of purposes. We can nearly duplicate the standard military 123gr load with the 300 whisper types but if you handload for the 39 you can beat it pretty handily. In a bolt action I think there is a lot of potential for the 39 but really only in the supersonic arena. Just my opinion of course....
Frank
Shooting the AAC 300 blackout 1000 yards! - YouTube
125 grain bullet. Torso-sized target. Non-keyholed impact.
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Perhaps, but plenty of hog hunters are having success with 300BLK anyway. And perhaps some better-expanding ammo could be developed?
900fps? How about 1050 like in the video? JBMBallistics gives me 789.8fps at 1000 yards for a 220gr SMK at my 5600ft elevation. I plugged in the Sierra 230gr FMJ Match pistol bullet going 950 (assuming a +P load) and it makes it to 350 before falling below 750fps. Energy at that 350 yards is 422.7 ft-lbs for the 300BLK 220gr SMK and 271.4 ft-lbs for the 230gr .45.
What, 700gr cast bullets? More power to ya. That recoil might sting a little after a few hundred rounds in an afternoon, though.
Recoil of a 300BLK 125gr bullet with 19gr powder in an 8 lb rifle going 2200 fps:
* Recoil Velocity: 6.5 ft/s
* Recoil Energy: 5.3 ft/lbs
* Recoil Impulse: 1.6 lb/s
Recoil of a .450 Bushy with a 275gr Barnes bullet over 34.5gr powder in an 8 lb rifle going 2128 fps:
* Recoil Velocity: 13.3 ft/s
* Recoil Energy: 22.1 ft/lbs
* Recoil Impulse: 3.3 lb/s
AR uppers and lowers come apart. The creation date of a cartridge has nothing to do with whether it could be fired full-auto using a legally-transferred lower.
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That 1000 yard video is Bullshit
Like I said:
23 mils at 1000 yards is about 828" of drop, you would need 47 to 50 mils of elevation if the bullet was a 220 grain SMK type and the MV was 1050 so he was not shooting subs, most likely 150 grains. With a 150 you would still have 85 MOA of drop at 1000 and would have entered the transonic range at 500 yards...
So I cry bullshit again. By the time that bullet goes transonic and then subsonic it would keyhole that target.
That target in the video also looks like 500 to 600 yards down range to me, and considering the bullet is getting there in under 3 seconds... I'd say that is about the actual range.
Don't believe everything you see on youtube, any keyboard commando can make a video shooting and fudge the yardages a bit in the title.
Like I said:
Took him quite a few shots to get the 2 he did....
23 mils at 1000 yards is about 828" of drop, you would need 47 to 50 mils of elevation if the bullet was a 220 grain SMK type and the MV was 1050 so he was not shooting subs, most likely 150 grains. With a 150 you would still have 85 MOA of drop at 1000 and would have entered the transonic range at 500 yards...
So I cry bullshit again. By the time that bullet goes transonic and then subsonic it would keyhole that target.
That target in the video also looks like 500 to 600 yards down range to me, and considering the bullet is getting there in under 3 seconds... I'd say that is about the actual range.
Don't believe everything you see on youtube, any keyboard commando can make a video shooting and fudge the yardages a bit in the title.
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A good strategy!
Compared to most modern center-fire rifle cartridges, it is noticeably heavy on bullet size and light on case capacity, just to look at it. Perhaps it isn't macho enough, visually. Perhaps it's too new, some people don't like change. Whatever. I like it.
My thoughts on the subject keep coming back to maybe trying to duplicate pistol round performance on a bottleneck rifle cartridge foundation. I keep thinking it's maybe sorta like trying to reinvent a wheel.
While I'm not doing subsonics, and this example would not be appropriate for subsonics, I have just acquired dies and a Dillon shellplate for .44 Rem Mag, to feed my 16" Win 94AE Trapper Carbine. There are other long gun platforms in this chambering as well.
But also consider a .44 Special with a .300gr, it could be loaded subsonic and still deliver a buncha whack.
Greg
While I'm not doing subsonics, and this example would not be appropriate for subsonics, I have just acquired dies and a Dillon shellplate for .44 Rem Mag, to feed my 16" Win 94AE Trapper Carbine. There are other long gun platforms in this chambering as well.
But also consider a .44 Special with a .300gr, it could be loaded subsonic and still deliver a buncha whack.
Greg
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Don't believe everything you see on youtube, any keyboard commando can make a video shooting and fudge the yardages a bit in the title.[/QUOTE]
Ryan doesn't put bullshit on the web. It's was a 1,000 yards. Yeah it may not be practical but most fundamental shooters like to try different things or test their abilities.
Back ON TOPIC....... I think the .300 blk out is awesome for cqb. Even subsonic good luck gettin up after that chunk of lead goes through. I'm in the market for one but the one I want from spikes tactical is 8-12 month wait for new orders.
Ryan doesn't put bullshit on the web. It's was a 1,000 yards. Yeah it may not be practical but most fundamental shooters like to try different things or test their abilities.
Back ON TOPIC....... I think the .300 blk out is awesome for cqb. Even subsonic good luck gettin up after that chunk of lead goes through. I'm in the market for one but the one I want from spikes tactical is 8-12 month wait for new orders.
Sorry, Say what you want about him but that video is bullshit. The numbers don't work for shooting a 300 blackout 1000 yards with a 125 grain bullet for anything less than 1 minute of barn.
MOST shooters shooting a 308 have difficulty shooting to 1000 yet we are supposed to believe those shots with a 300 blackout and a bullet with a .310 BC?
Nope. Every blackout shooter I have talked to about this subject all agree, shooting 1000 yards with a blackout is a minute of side of barn at best.
I love how these extreme videos are shot with maybe just two people present, never a continuous un-edited video with a bunch of people around like there was in that video of that guy shooting that M82A1 offhand at 1000 yards.
This keyboard commando probably doesn't shoot nearly as much as you do....is this BS too?
WORLD RECORD 1000 yard shot with a 9mm Hand Gun! | S&W 929 by Jerry Miculek - YouTube
WORLD RECORD 1000 yard shot with a 9mm Hand Gun! | S&W 929 by Jerry Miculek - YouTube
Are you making a fucking GEICO commercial?
How much luck in that shot? First one missed, how many times previously did he try this to get the dope right?
It's a trick shot. Good on him for doing it, I bet now all the people who saw it ran down to their LGS now to buy a 9mm because it will shoot 1000 yards....
Just because you get "lucky" does not mean that gun is good that purpose. You can hit anything that is within the range of a bullets total distance but how much of that is skill and how much of that is luck?
Judging by his response, even he thought it was luck.
My comments are based on the shots on the steel in that video above that was supposedly done with a blackout at 1000 yards. I don't care how good of a shot you are, the physics of that bullet, traveling into a transonic state and then subsonic and when it comes through all that it is only going 800 FPS... It can not maintain stability let alone that kind of accuracy going that slow having transversed from supersonic to subsonic. That bullet would be tumbling and it would have deviated off its POA.
Once a supersonic bullet goes transonic, kiss accuracy goodbye. Shooting that 9mm was like throwing a rock, a round slug can tumble without too much deviation, whole different deal with a inch and a half long 30 cal projectile that needs speed and rotation to stay on its axis.
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1) That was also Jerry Miculak who is an AMAZING shooter. And yes, he probably did practice to work out the dope. But then again, don't people do the same thing with their rifles????
2) Not all bullets are transonically unstable. The 168 grain Sierra Match King is known for tumbling going transonic, however the 175 grain Sierra Match King is fine going transonic. I have no idea about the 125 SMK.
That said, a LOT of drop at 1000 yards for the combo. Some 22.5 mils
2) Not all bullets are transonically unstable. The 168 grain Sierra Match King is known for tumbling going transonic, however the 175 grain Sierra Match King is fine going transonic. I have no idea about the 125 SMK.
That said, a LOT of drop at 1000 yards for the combo. Some 22.5 mils
Valid points but lets not deviate too far from the subject of me calling BS on that video. I am specifically referring to that video, that shot group and the claim it was done at 1000 yards with a 300 blackout. I dont care how good of a shot you are, you are not going to pull that off with what he used at 1000 yards.
There are a lot of bogus vids on youtube designed to go viral so the uploader can make some cash off the ad clicks. FPS Russia makes a fortune off their youtube channel.... Anyway, my point is, just because you see it on youtube does not make it legit.
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It's good for the same thing a De Lisle carbine is good for. Extended range? C'mon, do the math.
Those are cool! Seen plenty of photos of them, never seen one first hand.
For those of you who don't know what they are, the are/were a 45acp bolt action with an integral suppressor made by the British and used in WW2. From what I have read, they were super quiet and great for picking off Nazi's at 200 yards.
I personally feel like its a total waste. What can it do that the 7.62x39 cant in real world situations? Nothing.
I see people talk down on a 308 (not in this thread) and really brag about a 300 blk being some great target caliber with all these great ballistics. GTFO! I think its a fade that will die off. If you get one so younger kids can have a deer gun, why dont you just get a 308 and put a brake on it? Or a 25-06. Even less recoil. Quit wasting time and money on these fads. Get a real caliber.
I see people talk down on a 308 (not in this thread) and really brag about a 300 blk being some great target caliber with all these great ballistics. GTFO! I think its a fade that will die off. If you get one so younger kids can have a deer gun, why dont you just get a 308 and put a brake on it? Or a 25-06. Even less recoil. Quit wasting time and money on these fads. Get a real caliber.
Feed reliably from basic AR platform rifles.
From what I have gleaned, 7.62x39 needs a special receiver to accommodate the curved mags for the round.
it allows you to shoot any of the enormous selection of the 308 bullet design without needing a large and expensive AR platform. Most importantly, it let's people have an AR that isn't another damned 223.
cheers.
cheers.
While I don't think the 9mm is a good 1000 yard round either anything can be done.
That is a carnival trick though. Hit anywhere on the steel plate and the ballon gets busted by a frag, hell you can even skip it into the plate.
They did the same thing with folks shooting the blade of an axe with two balloons, one to either side. No matter where you hit the plate, it looks like your are a badass and split the bullet into and hit each ballon with the parts.
Have him lay down a 10 or even 5 shot group at 1000 and see how impressive it is.
