300 Norma build questions

simmonzz

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If this isn’t the correct spot to post this I apologize. I have a couple questions regarding a 300 Norma build I’d really like to get kicked off. Does anybody here have any experience with this caliber?

My components in mind are:
- Defiance Tenacity (their 37 week lead time is a huge drawback), Kelbly Atlas 338, or the Terminus Kratos seems really appealing too but the added cost although not a dealbreaker could be used elsewhere in the build
- AG composite alpine hunter
- Triggertech of some sort
- I’d like to run a carbon barrel but contemplating a lighter contour steel barrel that’s fluted pretty deep to help cut weight.

I’ve never built or had a custom bolt gun built and being indecisive has been a pain in the ass when narrowing down parts. I haven’t called Kelbly or Terminus yet to see what their lead times are on actions but they seem to be great options. As far as barrels go from what I’ve read 1:10 seems too slow for the heavies (215gr+) many guys seem to go with 1:9 however Kelbly has a Brux 1:10 #4 heavy sporter chambered for 300NM that’s already threaded in stock according to their website. Not sure if going with a 1:10 will be a bad choice or not since I plan on shooting the heavies. Does anybody have direct experience with any of the actions listed and recommend or like one more than another?

My intended use for this rifle is hunting and occasional elr. I’m aware I could go with 100 other calibers and more than likely achieve my goals as far as ethically taking animals go but I’m not looking for opinions on other cartridges.
 

Totoro

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I am building a 300NM too so I can provide a little bit of insite on my end.

I have both Defiance and Kelbly actions; can't go wrong with either. When I placed my order with Kelbly in March I was quoted 12-16 weeks.

I have no experience with the Terminus actions.

Are you going to use BDL or DBM? What are you planning to do with the rifle? Steel or hunt?

As for barrels, lots of contour options. I prefer a heavier tube so nothing less than a light Palma unfluted or a Rem Varm fluted.

Length, 26" if your plan is to hunt with it most of the time and 9 twist.

The Berger 215 is an awesome pill, but I am looking into the Berger 230/245.

Good luck with the build!
 
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simmonzz

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Appreciate the feedback on the kelbly vs defiance. I feel like I’d be happy with either (having not felt or even looked at either lol) but the Kelbly does seem to offer more features for the same price. That’s good to know their lead time is a lot shorter

I’m not 100% sure if I want to run a bdl or dbm. Having a detachable mag seems nice but in reality I can only carry 5 rounds in my rifle during season and hopefully wouldn’t shoot more than 1 or 2 and I feel like I’ll probably just single feed when I shoot LR for fun. I don’t compete or plan on it so adding the extra weight of the dbm and detachable mag seems silly but I do think they “look cooler” lol

I think I’m gonna go with a carbon wrapped barrel in a “heavy” contour rather than steel. I do really like the look of a heavily fluted barrel but that’s more than likely still gonna heavier than a carbon barrel depending on contour. If I did go with steel I was leaning towards #4 (bull sporter), light Palma or medium Palma, all of which being fluted to shave some weight. I planned on 26” for sure either route I went. I was looking at Bartlein for either all steel or carbon wrapped. I was thinking I’d want a 9 twist just wasn’t positive if a 10 would be adequate or not since Berger suggests a 1:10 or faster for everything other than the 245s IIRC

I plan to mostly hunt with it and occasionally shoot elr for fun.

Thank you for your insite. I’m assuming you ordered a Kelbly for your 300nm build? What’d you go with for a barrel?
 

Totoro

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Appreciate the feedback on the kelbly vs defiance. I feel like I’d be happy with either (having not felt or even looked at either lol) but the Kelbly does seem to offer more features for the same price. That’s good to know their lead time is a lot shorter

I’m not 100% sure if I want to run a bdl or dbm. Having a detachable mag seems nice but in reality I can only carry 5 rounds in my rifle during season and hopefully wouldn’t shoot more than 1 or 2 and I feel like I’ll probably just single feed when I shoot LR for fun. I don’t compete or plan on it so adding the extra weight of the dbm and detachable mag seems silly but I do think they “look cooler” lol

I think I’m gonna go with a carbon wrapped barrel in a “heavy” contour rather than steel. I do really like the look of a heavily fluted barrel but that’s more than likely still gonna heavier than a carbon barrel depending on contour. If I did go with steel I was leaning towards #4 (bull sporter), light Palma or medium Palma, all of which being fluted to shave some weight. I planned on 26” for sure either route I went. I was looking at Bartlein for either all steel or carbon wrapped. I was thinking I’d want a 9 twist just wasn’t positive if a 10 would be adequate or not since Berger suggests a 1:10 or faster for everything other than the 245s IIRC

I plan to mostly hunt with it and occasionally shoot elr for fun.

Thank you for your insite. I’m assuming you ordered a Kelbly for your 300nm build? What’d you go with for a barrel?
For my style of hunting, I prefer BDL; IF I have to reload, I have screwed up somewhere during the shot cycle.

But lots of other shooters like the DBM, each has its place and application.

Bartleins are well respected in all arenas and held with the highest esteem. That said, there are other makers out there too, that, to be honest, produce outstanding tubes.

Go 9 twist, if you decide that you want to shoot heavier pills you will have it covered.

Yup I have an Atlas 338 on order and pairing it up with a Hells Canyon wrapped tube @ 28" and a AG Composites CAT stock via BDL.
 

6AYoteHunter

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Ryan Pierce is a great resource! I am having him build a standard 300 norma for me on the new Borden Bigfoot Action with a 1 in 8.75 twist Brux 1.3" shank 28" standard Palma no flutes, Manners EH1 with ultralight cheek rest, 5 port muscle brake 3/4"×24, triggertech special trigger, hawkins BDL.
 

simmonzz

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@Chickentoast and @6AYoteHunter Thank you guys I’ll give Ryan a call and talk to him hopefully it doesn’t hold your build too much lol. I’ve read about him on other threads but didn’t actually think to call and bother him but I’ll do that.

@Totoro I know AG offers their stocks inletted for the atlas actions so I’m assuming that takes care of any other in letting work required as far as the trigger hanger goes? I know some people have had to make modifications to fit the the trigger hanger but I’m assuming that was with different stocks.
 

808caliber

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@Chickentoast and @6AYoteHunter Thank you guys I’ll give Ryan a call and talk to him hopefully it doesn’t hold your build too much lol. I’ve read about him on other threads but didn’t actually think to call and bother him but I’ll do that.

@Totoro I know AG offers their stocks inletted for the atlas actions so I’m assuming that takes care of any other in letting work required as far as the trigger hanger goes? I know some people have had to make modifications to fit the the trigger hanger but I’m assuming that was with different stocks.

Hopefully will get my 300 norma build from ts customs back in a few ish weeks so i can give u a better idea of how it turned out.

LP titanium fuzion 338 action
Bartlein 4 carbon 1:9 at 22in
Wyatt mbe 3 w/ hawkins bdl
Mbm 5 port brake
Allterra arms stock
 

simmonzz

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Got a little bit of an update and a few new questions. I talked to Ryan and he gave me a lot of good info and quoted me for a full build although I can’t swing that much for a rifle right now and would rather not spend that much if I can help it (not to say his rifles aren’t worth it because they definitely are exceptional shooters) I just can’t spend that much on a rifle right now especially after buying a leupold mk5. I have decided to get his builder kit though for $2750 comes with everything.

Is the consensus a manners stock absolutely needs to be bedded? I know AG says it’s not necessary with their stocks but I have no experience with a manners, other threads people seem to say it’s necessary.

I also think I want to go with 300 Norma improved now due to brass stretch and cutting down on the amount of trimming. Is there any downfalls of going with the improved? Out of all the different shoulder angles offered is there one that seems to be the best or most commonly used? I’ve talked to a couple gunsmiths about chambering the blank for me but haven’t decided on who to have the work done by. A couple people/companies I’ve talked to have an improved reamer with a bore rider throat (which I know very little about but based on what I’ve read I don’t think I want that?) Besides Ryan (who doesn’t do anything short of full builds) and Alex Wheeler (who isn’t taking on any new work) who might you guys recommend that has experience with this caliber and an improved reamer?
 

airborne_trooper

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Alex wheeler did a 300nmi for me. I talked with both Ryan and Alex prior to the work. I would definitely get in contact with Alex.
Here is 10 shot pressure testing group with 230 Bergers and over a couple of grains of H1000. I was over 3000 FPS on the top end!
 

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simmonzz

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Alex wheeler did a 300nmi for me. I talked with both Ryan and Alex prior to the work. I would definitely get in contact with Alex.
Here is 10 shot pressure testing group with 230 Bergers and over a couple of grains of H1000. I was over 3000 FPS on the top end!

he’s not taking on any news work right now he says he’s buried. He also says he wouldn’t be any cheaper than Ryan. I’m not sure if he offers just chambering/threading/fitting barrels to actions
 

Hawk in WY

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I have built two 300 Norma Mag rifles this past winter for my son and myself.

Both are currently on Mausingfields, but I plan to switch mine to an Impact action when it turns up.

Between these two I prefer the Impact based on my experience with other Impact long actions based on ejection. Personal preference.

Both are BDL but I am changing one to Hawkins' new hunter DBM.

I built these to run specific bullets. My son's is for the Barnes 200/208 LRX's. The hunter DBM will give enough overall length. That one is running a nine twist 26-inch fluted barrel from LRI.

I plan to run the 212 LRX bore rider in the other with an eight twist Proof Sendero barrel. The Wyatt extended BDL box is required to load that bullet long enough.

Both are in Manners EH-5A stocks.

I am well into load development and both rifles shoot under 0.5 moa.

There is not a huge advantage over the 300 PRC, but the Norma Mag is faster.

Elk will hate it.
 
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simmonzz

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I have built two 300 Norma Mag rifles this past winter for my son and myself.

Both are currently on Mausingfields, but I plan to switch mine to an Impact action when it turns up.

Between these two I prefer the Impact based on my experience with other Impact long actions based on ejection. Personal preference.

Both are BDL but I am changing one to Hawkins' new hunter DBM.

I built these to run specific bullets. My son's is for the Barnes 200/208 LRX's. The hunter DBM will give enough overall length. That one is running a nine twist 26-inch fluted barrel from LRI.

I plan to run the 212 LRX bore rider in the other with an eight twist Proof Sendero barrel. The Wyatt extended BDL box is required to load that bullet long enough.

Both are in Manners EH-5A stocks.

I am well into load development and both rifles shoot under 0.5 moa.

There is not a huge advantage over the 300 PRC, but the Norma Mag is faster.

Elk will hate it.
Those sound like some nice builds! The biggest advantage I see aside from ballistics is brass availability over 300prc. I wasn’t opposed to going 300 prc but it’s basically the same cost to shoot the Norma over the prc in today’s current market. Did you chamber those rifles yourself or have someone else do that?

I’d like to shoot/hunt with 230 Bergers and/or possibly 199 hammer hunters so I’m looking at a 26” 9 twist
 

Hawk in WY

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LRI did the nine twist. I recommend them highly.

The eight twist is a Proof Research prefit.

Both 26 inch. Both hammer.

The biggest challenge is getting them to feed smoothly from the magazine system. The Wyatt boxes require some tuning.

I believe the Hawkins hunter DBM will become my preferred hunting setup. The Wyatt extended box allows for longer COAL which is necessary for the Barnes 212 LRX Bore rider.
 
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simmonzz

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LRI did the nine twist. I recommend them highly.

The eight twist is a Proof Research prefit.

Both 26 inch. Both hammer.

The biggest challenge is getting them to feed smoothly from the magazine system. The Wyatt boxes require some tuning.

I believe the Hawkins hunter DBM will become my preferred hunting setup. The Wyatt extended box allows for longer COAL which is necessary for the Barnes 212 LRX Bore rider.

I have decided to go dbm rather than bdl since my first post a couple weeks ago for problem and reason you listed to switch. I have talked to LRI and was pretty sure I was going to use them however if I remember correctly they have 2 improved reamers and one has the bore rider which I don’t think I want. They’re reputation and prices are definitely attractive I was just curious about other people’s experience with other companies. Still leaning towards LRI at the moment
 

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I have all three action makers your asking about and a 300 Norma.

To start the Norma is amazing but definitely recommend the 1:9 twist. The 245’s and even 230 are better suited for the big Norma.

As far as actions go, all 3 are incredible. The defiance is something of a piece of art. The defiance just draws your eye. The terminus is my favourite action. I have the zues and the machine work, customer service, threaded trigger pins, and buttery smooth bolt just blows my mind. The 60 degree isn’t for everyone. The kelbly continues to Impress me and it’s one of my oldest actions. Dollar for dollar it can’t be beat. Customer service is absolute one of the best in the industry. Family run and they take care of you. The bolt cycle is beautiful, no binding, so smooth, super super light lift and the mechanical ejector is fantastic when shooting on a bench for load development.
 
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simmonzz

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I have all three action makers your asking about and a 300 Norma.

To start the Norma is amazing but definitely recommend the 1:9 twist. The 245’s and even 230 are better suited for the big Norma.

As far as actions go, all 3 are incredible. The defiance is something of a piece of art. The defiance just draws your eye. The terminus is my favourite action. I have the zues and the machine work, customer service, threaded trigger pins, and buttery smooth bolt just blows my mind. The 60 degree isn’t for everyone. The kelbly continues to Impress me and it’s one of my oldest actions. Dollar for dollar it can’t be beat. Customer service is absolute one of the best in the industry. Family run and they take care of you. The bolt cycle is beautiful, no binding, so smooth, super super light lift and the mechanical ejector is fantastic when shooting on a bench for load development.

Awesome man thank you for the opinion. Since my first post I decided on getting the builder kit from Ryan Pierce for $2750 shipped and everything is in stock ready to go. It consists of:

Kelbly atlas lapua
Manners eh1
Triggertech special
Proof carbon 26” 9 twist tube
Hawkins bdl, wyatts box, follower, spring etc. (although he said he could switch it out for a dbm and mag which I plan to do instead of bdl now)
Piercision set timing brake

I think that’s a pretty decent deal and definitely cuts down on shipping costs from a bunch of places just requires more cash up front.

My biggest concern is figuring out who to send the parts off to to have the barrel chambered/threaded and fit for the kelbly and more than likely bed it in the manners.

Who did your Norma build?
 

762 ULTRAMAGA

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Awesome man thank you for the opinion. Since my first post I decided on getting the builder kit from Ryan Pierce for $2750 shipped and everything is in stock ready to go. It consists of:

Kelbly atlas lapua
Manners eh1
Triggertech special
Proof carbon 26” 9 twist tube
Hawkins bdl, wyatts box, follower, spring etc. (although he said he could switch it out for a dbm and mag which I plan to do instead of bdl now)
Piercision set timing brake

I think that’s a pretty decent deal and definitely cuts down on shipping costs from a bunch of places just requires more cash up front.

My biggest concern is figuring out who to send the parts off to to have the barrel chambered/threaded and fit for the kelbly and more than likely bed it in the manners.

Who did your Norma build?
It sounds like you're pretty set on the direction of your build, but after owning a 300 NM I'll give you my thoughts.
Please dont take this as trying to push you in another direction it's just my experience

My 300 NW was a bit of a disappointment. Velocity was around 2975 with 225 eldms from a 26" barrel so just barely faster than a 300 prc I loaded for, and it took 10 more grains of powder to get there.
Muzzle blast and recoil was noticeably higher as well.
Going the improved route is a good call because case growth with the standard version is ridiculous.
The downside though is fireforming and custom dies, I've been down that road with a 30 SM and its a huge drawback with magnums and scarce components.

I now shoot a 24" custom throated 30 nosler and am within 50 fps of the 300 NM with 2" less barrel.
The 35 degree shoulder is about perfect, and Peterson brass is every bit as good as Lapua

Lastly I'd encourage anyone to go with a #5 fluted barrel over CF, it'll weigh about the same and won't have the issues associated with pencil thin steen wrapped in CF

Kampfeld Customs is who I use for all my bulids, Karl does exceptional work at a very fair price.
You can save some money by bedding the stock yourself its stupid easy

Just my observations
Good luck with your build
 

simmonzz

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It sounds like you're pretty set on the direction of your build, but after owning a 300 NM I'll give you my thoughts.
Please dont take this as trying to push you in another direction it's just my experience

My 300 NW was a bit of a disappointment. Velocity was around 2975 with 225 eldms from a 26" barrel so just barely faster than a 300 prc I loaded for, and it took 10 more grains of powder to get there.
Muzzle blast and recoil was noticeably higher as well.
Going the improved route is a good call because case growth with the standard version is ridiculous.
The downside though is fireforming and custom dies, I've been down that road with a 30 SM and its a huge drawback with magnums and scarce components.

I now shoot a 24" custom throated 30 nosler and am within 50 fps of the 300 NM with 2" less barrel.
The 35 degree shoulder is about perfect, and Peterson brass is every bit as good as Lapua

Lastly I'd encourage anyone to go with a #5 fluted barrel over CF, it'll weigh about the same and won't have the issues associated with pencil thin steen wrapped in CF

Kampfeld Customs is who I use for all my bulids, Karl does exceptional work at a very fair price.
You can save some money by bedding the stock yourself its stupid easy

Just my observations
Good luck with your build
I didn’t take that as you trying to be pushy I appreciate everyone’s experience and opinions so far. I’m not against 300prc it’s been a cartridge so far, however I do want to be a little different than some buddies and finding brass is near impossible and extremely expensive. Of course this situation will eventually subside but I’m just not interested in bidding or paying high prices for components that I didn’t have a need to stock until now (chose a bad time to build a new rifle I know lol). With that said I can build/shoot/reload for a Norma easier and for the same price if not cheaper than a prc with the same components right now so I kinda figured I might as well go for the big fella. If I go the improved route the custom dies will definitely add cost but I feel the improved is worth it to have even more advantage over other cartridges and cut down on case growth etc. I’ll definitely check out Kampfeld Customs thank you for the recommendation and opinions I appreciate it
 
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Matt_3479

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Awesome man thank you for the opinion. Since my first post I decided on getting the builder kit from Ryan Pierce for $2750 shipped and everything is in stock ready to go. It consists of:

Kelbly atlas lapua
Manners eh1
Triggertech special
Proof carbon 26” 9 twist tube
Hawkins bdl, wyatts box, follower, spring etc. (although he said he could switch it out for a dbm and mag which I plan to do instead of bdl now)
Piercision set timing brake

I think that’s a pretty decent deal and definitely cuts down on shipping costs from a bunch of places just requires more cash up front.

My biggest concern is figuring out who to send the parts off to to have the barrel chambered/threaded and fit for the kelbly and more than likely bed it in the manners.

Who did your Norma build?

Oh right on, sorry I misread the post where you took that kit my apologizes! Sounds like a very nice build and you’ll be extremely pleased with the atlas for sure! I highly recommend them!

As far as caliber if I were to do it from the start I’d strongly consider the Norma improved. The added advantages are nice, the added velocity is awesome, but the Norma is no slouch and the accuracy is top notch.

All smiths are very similarly priced for complete builds or even just chambering. I think it would
Have been smart and easier to just continue with Ryan Pearce personally. That said there is tons of great smiths around.

It sounds like you're pretty set on the direction of your build, but after owning a 300 NM I'll give you my thoughts.
Please dont take this as trying to push you in another direction it's just my experience

My 300 NW was a bit of a disappointment. Velocity was around 2975 with 225 eldms from a 26" barrel so just barely faster than a 300 prc I loaded for, and it took 10 more grains of powder to get there.
Muzzle blast and recoil was noticeably higher as well.
Going the improved route is a good call because case growth with the standard version is ridiculous.
The downside though is fireforming and custom dies, I've been down that road with a 30 SM and its a huge drawback with magnums and scarce components.

I now shoot a 24" custom throated 30 nosler and am within 50 fps of the 300 NM with 2" less barrel.
The 35 degree shoulder is about perfect, and Peterson brass is every bit as good as Lapua

Lastly I'd encourage anyone to go with a #5 fluted barrel over CF, it'll weigh about the same and won't have the issues associated with pencil thin steen wrapped in CF

Kampfeld Customs is who I use for all my bulids, Karl does exceptional work at a very fair price.
You can save some money by bedding the stock yourself its stupid easy

Just my observations
Good luck with your build


That prc must of been cooking!! My winny would only drive the 215’s at 2940 ish but node around 2900 if I recall. My Norma is able to push the 215 at 3220 with a node in the mid to mid high 3100’s.
 

762 ULTRAMAGA

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Oh right on, sorry I misread the post where you took that kit my apologizes! Sounds like a very nice build and you’ll be extremely pleased with the atlas for sure! I highly recommend them!

As far as caliber if I were to do it from the start I’d strongly consider the Norma improved. The added advantages are nice, the added velocity is awesome, but the Norma is no slouch and the accuracy is top notch.

All smiths are very similarly priced for complete builds or even just chambering. I think it would
Have been smart and easier to just continue with Ryan Pearce personally. That said there is tons of great smiths around.




That prc must of been cooking!! My winny would only drive the 215’s at 2940 ish but node around 2900 if I recall. My Norma is able to push the 215 at 3220 with a node in the mid to mid high 3100’s.
I was sending 215’s at 3000 in the prc and 3050 in the NM with Retumbo, 225s were an easy 2925 with h1000 in the PRC and the same powder produced 2975 in the NM.

Its a cool round for sure, just a hassle with the lapua action etc. When standard mags are about identical performance wise.
 
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simmonzz

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Oh right on, sorry I misread the post where you took that kit my apologizes! Sounds like a very nice build and you’ll be extremely pleased with the atlas for sure! I highly recommend them!

As far as caliber if I were to do it from the start I’d strongly consider the Norma improved. The added advantages are nice, the added velocity is awesome, but the Norma is no slouch and the accuracy is top notch.

All smiths are very similarly priced for complete builds or even just chambering. I think it would
Have been smart and easier to just continue with Ryan Pearce personally. That said there is tons of great smiths around.




That prc must of been cooking!! My winny would only drive the 215’s at 2940 ish but node around 2900 if I recall. My Norma is able to push the 215 at 3220 with a node in the mid to mid high 3100’s.
I’d love to buy a complete rifle from Ryan I just can’t spend $4700 on the gun, $2k on the scope and $? on the custom dies it’s too much to me personally not to say it’s not worth it because like I said earlier they’re exceptionally accurate and he absolutely knows what he’s doing. People are paying for his rifles and he’s busy so obviously they’re worth it I’m not trying to belittle or bad mouth it’s just too much for me to spend on the base rifle right now. I’m not trying to do a super budget rifle because I’m spec-ing nice parts but there’s gotta be a end budget
 
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simmonzz

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How did this turn out?
I had deep south tactical chamber, thread, bed and assemble everything. i think it turned out really good still needs more load development but i settled on a 3/4 moa load shooting the 199 hammer hunter at 3250fps. it smoked a 380lb+ black bear and left a huge hole on a deer this year overall im really happy. just got my 16.5" 6.5 saum back from them too. i had them do the same exact thing as my 300 norma but obviously much shorter and different caliber. im really loving that rifle right now
 

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I had deep south tactical chamber, thread, bed and assemble everything. i think it turned out really good still needs more load development but i settled on a 3/4 moa load shooting the 199 hammer hunter at 3250fps. it smoked a 380lb+ black bear and left a huge hole on a deer this year overall im really happy. just got my 16.5" 6.5 saum back from them too. i had them do the same exact thing as my 300 norma but obviously much shorter and different caliber. im really loving that rifle right now

Post a picture of finished gun! Love to see it. Did you build your saum on the kelbly too?
 

simmonzz

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Post a picture of finished gun! Love to see it. Did you build your saum on the kelbly too?
The specs on my 300 norma are very similar to my 6.5 saum but not the same. I wnated them to match and basically have a mini-me version of my 300. the norma is awesome for what it is but its really long and adding a suppressor would have just been ridiculous i feel like so i had the shawty built.

300 norma:
- kelbly atlas tactical
- proof carbon 26" tube
- manners eh1 in swamp camo
- hawkins dbm
- accurate mag
- piercision self timing brake
- leupold mk5hd 5-25 pr2 mil
- leupold mk4 rings

6.5 saum:
- defiance tenacity
- proof carbon 16.5" tube
- manners eh1 in swamp camo
- hawkins hunter dbm
- hawkins hunter flush mag
- rearden double port brake (havent gotten on yet)
- leupold vx5hd 3-15 htmr
- hawkins long range hybrid rings
 

simmonzz

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Here’s my decent blacktail forky and black bear for this year. Both taken with the Norma. I don’t have a pic of the 2 rifles together once I got the scope mounted but shows you them together
 

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