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Gunsmithing 300 saum project?

O

OKbow87

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 30, 2006
274
0
Oklahoma City, OK
I just wanted to pick the brains of some experts around here about a project I have been thinking up. I am wanting to build a 300 saum on a s/a and run the 208 amax. Right now I am planning on using a surgeon round action in their wsm pattern with the 3.110" port in the bottom of the reciever and the seekins wsm bottom metal when it comes out, which is supposed to allow you to load to 3.1". As I see it the surgeon bolt and bolt stop should already be machined where it travels far enough to pick up the cases from the magazine and allow enough room for ejecting a loaded case. This is my main reason for using this action even though I believe you can do the same thing with a regular 700 s/a with some machining. I guess what I am looking for is somebody to confirm my thoughts and to tell me if there is anything I haven't thought of that goes along with using this set up.


And just incase anybody was wondering my thoughts on this... loading to 3.095"-3.1" with the 208 amax which is 1.535" long itself will actually allow me to have more case capacity than what the nosler guide shows with it loaded to 2.825" with the 200 accubond which is 1.490". This should allow me to use some slower powders from what their data shows, like h100 and retumbo. So I think I will be able to get some pretty good numbers out of a 26" barell, 2900+. Like I said any comments anybody has I would be more than happy to hear them.
 
Re: 300 saum project?

I have a 300 SAUM but only because it is the hottest 30 that will run in an AR 10.

If starting from scratch in a bolt gun it would not be choice #1 as I think it will be an orphan in a few years. If you are set on a short action the 300 WSM would be a safer choice but in terms of availabilty of ammo, data & resale, the good old 300 Winchester Magnum is hard to beat.
 
Re: 300 saum project?

I would go 7SAUM or 7WSM instead of 300! With the high BC Berger 180s, JLK 180s and 162 A-Max's, it will kill any 30cal in the ballistics dept.
 
Re: 300 saum project?

I have a 7wsm already. When the 208 amax came out I just decided I wanted to build a gun to shoot them out of. I have kicked around 30-06, 300 saum, 300 wsm, 300 win, and 300 ultra. Decided I wanted to try and get by with a 26" or even 24" barrel and possibly not need a break so I narrowed it down to 30-06 and the saum. So now this is where I am just trying to completely sell myself on it. Plus with this loading length I can keep the base of the bullet above the body/shoulder junction on the saum, but it would still be below that with the wsm... maybe I need to just go with the wsm. I guess thats why I am asking cause im not completely sold on any of it.
 
Re: 300 saum project?

The 30-06 in a modern rifle will do anything a 300 SAUM will and be a lot more resalable.
 
Re: 300 saum project?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 300 SAUM but only because it is the hottest 30 that will run in an AR 10.</div></div>

you sure?

Anywho...

Go 300 wizzum and a L/A like was mentioned above.
 
Re: 300 saum project?

Let me correct my statement. It is the hottest factory loaded 30 that for an AR 10 that can be purchased "ready made" from a major AR maker (DPMS).
I have no idea what a 300 wizzum is (300 WSM?)
OALs
308 2.8
300 SAUM 2.825
300 WSM 2.86

So I guess a WSM might work but can't find any on the net which probaly means "custom" which would cost a whole lot more than the $850 I paid for my as new DPMS LR 300 SAUM upper. I also doubt the slight velocity advantage of the WSM over the SAUM would translate to much in a 20" bbl.

dpms30saum1.jpg

 
Re: 300 saum project?

errrr, the OP started with the SAUM, then added the 06' to the "possibles". That is the topic.
You said the 300 WSM was available in AR 10s. Got any?
I only used the SAUM/AR relationship to explain why the AR 10 platform might ensure its life.
On this thread, I only typed when I feel I might have something to contribute.
You, on the other hand just can't stop playing "wannabe moderator." Genetic?

If the OP wants to build a custom SAUM because he wants to that's fine. I've done the same things several times (244 H&H, 400 H&H, modern High Wall 40-82, 22-06 and so on). But he did ask for others thoughts and my thought is that he will
be spending a lot of $ for a performance envelope that may be achieved easier and cheaper with a 30-06 or 300 Winmag.

Hope that makes it clear.
 
Re: 300 saum project?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am wanting to build a 300 saum on a s/a and run the 208 amax.</div></div>

wondering where AR is mentioned.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You said the 300 WSM was available in AR 10s. Got any?</div></div>

ummmm.....nope...


anywho...

I did contribute.

My opinion was the 300wizzum.



 
Re: 300 saum project?

WTF that is..... can't find it in cartridges of the world.

Now tell me about all the Tactical and Sniper forces anywhere in the world using the 300 SAUM in a bolt rifle. Or even the 300 WSM.

The reason the 308 and 300 Winmag own the turf because each is optimal for a 168 or 200+- gr bullet .


 
Re: 300 saum project?

If you're doing a full custom job, I'm not sure why you want to do a SAUM over a WSM. I can't imagine any calculation would produce a significant performance difference. The main advantage of the SAUM, IMHO, is when reloading for a factory short action. Once you go custom, you should be able to get long enough in the WSM to negate the advantage.

Beyond performance, you'll never find factory ammo if you need it. When I was deciding between discounted 300WM and SAUM Senderos at a large sporting goods store, the deciding factor was lots of choices for the WM and NONE for the SAUM.

Even reloading, how many brass choices are there? Anyone but Remington? Personally I hate their brass, while Winchester I really like for the price.
 
Re: 300 saum project?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WTF that is..... can't find it in cartridges of the world.

Now tell me about all the Tactical and Sniper forces anywhere in the world using the 300 SAUM in a bolt rifle. Or even the 300 WSM.

The reason the 308 and 300 Winmag own the turf because each is optimal for a 168 or 200+- gr bullet .


</div></div>

errr what does a sniper rifle have to do with it?

Although the 300 winny is a fine round. I opt for the 300 wizzum. No belt issues. A bit longer barrel life.
The wizzum will handle the 165-210 gr boolits very fine like.
It'll toss the 150's and 168's like a laser. It'll place the heavies precisely at very long ranges.
The 175 will perform outstandingly.
The wizzum has made it's voice heard with the heavies up to 210 grns throughout out the proving grounds ( 1K br )

Albeit I've only owned 4-6 of each the winny and the wizzum so I'm just learning.

wizzum.. common gun guru... you'll eventually figure it out.

For bullet selection .30 is hard to beat. the 300 wizzum if need be has plenty of factory fodder avail.
Although the 7 wizzum is a fine caliber too. But I have limited knowledge of it. ;-)
 
Re: 300 saum project?

I wish I too could be so VERY COOL as to speak in "in crowd"
gun talk. Lemme see the 8X57 is the "krauter", the 6.5x55 is the
"Bridgett", the 44-40 the "injunslayer" and so on...right?

300 WSMs and 300 SAUMs BOTH fit in SAs (in crowd gun talk)
The winny's belt (more insider babble) is no issue, if you knew how to headspace a belted cartridge.

Now on to 7mms (that's .284), they have better SD bullets than any 30 and will outrange any 30, have less winddrift and are certainly as accurate. If you doubt me ask NOBODY as he wrote the book on 7mms.

Now how do you know the 7 WSM is so good if you never used one..... sounds like most of your "expertise" LOL
 
Re: 300 saum project?

Hi the WSm and Rem SAUm case are so close in capacity the Win brass is actualy thicker and the Rem case has a slight advantage loaded to the same OAL because the projectile is further out of the powder colum. If you look purly at case design the SAUM case is actualy designed better but the marketing tools of Win got their desighn out first. Now for cases i hate Win and would prefer Rem any day it is just here in Australia we seem to get junk Win a lot. If you build either and want match brass Norma makes both so their is no quality diferences there for general shooting rem brass is fine and i have a 7mm Rem SAUM i use as a hunting rifle and have 300 cases and dont think i will ever need any more buy 500 Rem cases batch them and you will be good for a few barrels. Your idea is sound and i would stick to your project. I personaly would do it in 7mm but that is me you have your criteria and like the 208 A MAx it is a great bullet and we have sucsess using it in 30-284's for customers in F Class. you will be able to get away with a 24" barrel as the case design is well suited to shorter barrels. as for powders H4831SC will be your best starting powder with H1000 being worth a try retumbo is just to slow and you wont get enough into the case if it was a 7mm Retumbo is great but with the 30 cal bore volume it is just that bit to slow.

My advice stick with the desighn you have chosen buy a Redding Type S Full length sizing die with a Forster BR seater and you will have the best die combination for the best price.

Do you have a reamer yet?

If you dont get a case and load it to the OAL you want then send it to Dave Kiff at pacific ask for the chamber to be made to suit the Redding Type S dies not a particular batch of cases this means any brass you shoot in the chamber will form to the chamber and be sized perfectly as Dave has the die prints from Redding to make it perfect. For the neck dieameter i would ask for the loaded diameter plus .003" that is plus 3 thou 1.5 thou each side this will allow for a nice tight neck seal without getting into to much trouble with grit you could go to 4 thou then for the throat i make mine super tight in the freebore i only have .0001" larger than projectile diameter but i would go .3084 if you will be out where it could get dirty and have a 1.5degree lead angle set to the loaded dummy round you send him. If the max oal of the mag is 3.100" make the dummy .025 shorter this will allow you to play with seating depths when the throat wears but you should not have to worry to mych find a load shoot it until the barrel needs a rechamber or replacing.

Now the only advantage the 30 has is barrel life over the 7mm you will likley get 1 .5 times more usable life out of it so make your choice and go with it.

In my 7mm Short mag that i use for F Class it is based on the WSM case because i have sponsorchip with Norma and they dont bring the Rem SAUM case here to Australia but i have modified the case with a long neck and the case capacity is closer to the Rem SAUM case i use Retumbo in it and the most accurate projectile it likes is the 175gr MatchKings it just turns the 162gr A MAx to dust 10 yards from the muzzle.

With the 300 rem SAUM you will never have a projectile issue 2900fps should eb attainable with a 26" barrel and be real close in the 24" with a long throat go for it it will do what you want.

Now to compare it to the 30-06 the 06 is a fine desighn or no one would nse it now over 100 yeras after it was designed like a lot of old cartridges it has its limitations if loaded to the same pressure and barrel length it can not compete with either short mag the barrel length in measured from the boltface to the crown the 06 case is a lot longer so it acrualy looses barrel length due to the case length. You will also have to step up to a magnum length action to load the 208 A Max and in that case i would have gone to a 30-06AI or just step up to the 300 Win MAg but for your desighn criteria you have the perfect combunation.

Dont worry about factory ammo you will never fire a round through the rifle in any calibre even if is is a 30-06 as you have it throated and zero'd for a 208 A MAx anything else would not be nere zero or shoot the same so a rifle like this is hand load only anyway. Go for it make that SAUM and show how well they work their will be a lot of people suprised when they see it shoot. My SAUM factory Remn barrel 22" long shoots 3/8" groups now the rifle is bedded and trigger adjusted the Rem SAUM rifles were all very accurate.

Back to the 7mm's though until very recently the 7mm Rem Mag was in service as the cartridge for the US secret service i think it still is the lack of projectiles in the past made it a hard calibre to chose for precision work because if your rifle did not loke the 168gr MatchKing in 7mm their was not much more to get you two 1000 yards luckily you only need one projectile to shoot in your rifle and stick with it. ALso for barrel twist stick with a 1 in 10 and you will be GTG.

 
Re: 300 saum project?

I too think the RSAUM will phase out...


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wish I too could be so VERY COOL as to speak in "in crowd"</div></div>

You got a long way to go...
 
Re: 300 saum project?

I think I am gonna go ahead with this project. I only handload anyway so im not worried about factory ammo and I can get brass right now from rem, nosler, or norma. Plus even if it does get phased out in another 2 or 3 years I will have the barrel shot out by then and be ready to rebarrel to something else. Thank you for everyone's ideas and opinions. Now its nothing but a good ten month wait to get all the parts and get it put together!
 
Re: 300 saum project?

300 saum. Ill just get enough brass now to last me for 2000 rounds or so and it will be shot out by then.
 
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