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300 Whisper is here

Rancid Coolaid

Rancid Coolaid

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
    • Aug 10, 2007
    1,687
    838
    Houston, TX.
    Any favorite recipes?


    It is a Rem 700 action, 16 inch Douglas match barrel, and YHM Phantom 7.62.

    Bullets in hand now are 220-gr SMK, 208-gr A-max, and 220-gr Hornady Interlocks (round nose.)

    Given that the bullet will subsonic, it drops rather quickly. Zero will be 100 yards with dope to 200, probably no shots taken beyond 250. (JBM tells me the drop on the 220SMK from 100 to 200 is 7.7 mils.)

    Any advice or tricks for success from 300 Whisper owners?
     
    Re: 300 Whisper is here

    Rifle did pretty good with 220-gr SMK over about 8.5 of AA#9.

    I hear good things (from the maker and others) about Lil Gun and 220-s, think I'll try that next.


    It is scary quiet, "Hollywood" quiet.

    A new addiction is born! If you are shooting a suppressor, you need to try subsubsonic.
     
    Re: 300 Whisper is here

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rancid Coolaid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rifle did pretty good with 220-gr SMK over about 8.5 of AA#9.

    I hear good things (from the maker and others) about Lil Gun and 220-s, think I'll try that next.


    It is scary quiet, "Hollywood" quiet.

    A new addiction is born! If you are shooting a suppressor, you need to try subsubsonic. </div></div>

    Who built it, pics?
     
    Re: 300 Whisper is here

    I have a SSK encore barrel loaded with 8.5grs H110 match small rifle primers and 210 VLD's. It shoots great.
     
    Re: 300 Whisper is here

    It was built by Kelly Kyle in Oklahoma.

    This picture sucks, but that is ol' girl.

    The target is of the first day's shooting. Keep in mind, this is scope zero from bore site, load development of 2 variations, and barrel break-in, all done on one target with 20 rounds. Also, wind was variable and gusting up to 20MPH and these are all subsonic loads.

    Lower left-most round was a called flier, all others felt like good pulls. These are the first 20 rounds down the barrel and the first rounds with AA#9. Kelly recommends lil gun, that will be trial #2.
    There was a dope change of 1 click about halfway through the 20 rounds. I prolly shouldn't have done that.


    300Whisper-1.jpg



    300Whisperfulltarget.jpg



    And, as an aside, I absolutely hate Carter's Country's range, their ROSs are stupid and every shooter on the range feels the uncontrollable need to tell me, "Silencers are illegal!"
     
    Re: 300 Whisper is here



    ..."<span style="font-style: italic"> Any advice or tricks for success from 300 Whisper owners</span> ?"
    .

    I shoot bolt-action also & say's you want to shoot subsonic only & <span style="text-decoration: underline">only planning shooting it a couple hundred yards.</span>
    so this is what I do for quick ranging for holdovers with retical-holdovers.
    . On my load and range holdover info on subsonic vel. I just use my Mil-Dot Ret. . I also will put down a POI zero of 100 yrd.
    For shorter shots (for example) 50-yrd. You can use a 2-moa, hold-Under for 50 yrd. shots and then take it up from there for Longer ranges.

    (For rough Example) in quick ranging on mildot Ret.
    50- 2-moa hold-under
    100 - zero
    125 - 1.0 moa
    150 - 2.0 moa
    175 - 3.0 moa
    200 - 4.0 moa

    30-221 Range Dope is VERY very specific in the differant bullet weight &This is a rough hold-over chart & will all depend on the bullet weight and Vel. for exact Ret. holdovers. But you will find that if you use the heavies (220-240 grn) bullets you can get out an Easy200<span style="font-weight: bold">+</span> yards with just using your Ret. as quick holdover shots. & it is really accurate Too.
    The 180 grn bullets do really nice also. but you can squeeze the most range in flight with less loss in energy loss with the heavies.
    Don't be wairy of the the flat-base bullets, as boat-tail bullets is a pretty mute point in subsonic accuracy and flight. You will get less subsonic Vel. key-hole than the (for example) Sierra hpbt . BUT (surprisingly) Key-Holing @ 200 yrd is pretty accurate too.
    I would shy away from the soft-point,blunt Round-nose like the Hornady interlocks as they dont feed well. The Pointed soft-points like the Nosler 220 partitions, flat-base bullets, they feed good & 100% for me .
    .
     
    Re: 300 Whisper is here

    I have one that I bought from Kelly Kyle also. I stuck it in an a McMillan Adj. HTG stock and have not bothered to bed it yet. I was extremely surprised at how accurate it is. 5 shot groups are around .6" at 100yds. Mine likes 9.7 gr VV 110 with 240gr MK's, Wolf SRM primers. No problem with extraction but it does occasionally mess up feeding. I'm going to have a Seekins DBM kit installed and bed it at that time.
     
    Re: 300 Whisper is here

    I have an adjustable HTG on the way as well, seemed the best fit.

    Mine extracts fine but doesn't always eject great, though I usually cover the ejection port to grab the brass anyway. As I said, this was the first 20 rounds through the gun, it's still really new.

    I've heard good things about lil gun and H110, next string will be lil gun.

    I'm considering loading up a few supersonics too, just to see how it handles.

    Not sure on barrel contour, probably varmint.


    It is, without question, fun as hell to shoot.
     
    Re: 300 Whisper is here

    A possible dumb question: what optics are you using?

    The subsonic 220s fall from the sky with ease, I need something that allows dope to be put in fast or has a reticle to compensate for fall at range.

    Going from a 100-yard zero to a 200-yard shot will take some turret-spinning, unless I use an FFP mil reticle.

    Those of you shooting these in the real world, what optic are you using to accommodate the dope required for a round that drops like a meteor?
     
    Re: 300 Whisper is here

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rancid Coolaid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A possible dumb question: what optics are you using?

    The subsonic 220s fall from the sky with ease, I need something that allows dope to be put in fast or has a reticle to compensate for fall at range.

    Going from a 100-yard zero to a 200-yard shot will take some turret-spinning, unless I use an FFP mil reticle.

    Those of you shooting these in the real world, what optic are you using to accommodate the dope required for a round that drops like a meteor?
    </div></div>

    Looks like a super sniper 10x to me..
     
    Re: 300 Whisper is here

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Noveske AR15 barrels have proven to like:
    220SMK
    9.1gr H110
    205M primer
    2.190 COL
    </div></div>

    Mine wouldn't cycle reliably with this. Anything loaded above this charge weight and it stopped picking up the next round off the mag, but would eject. (weird?) So far I hadn't been able to get anything hold back on the mag release.

    Conditions were below freezing out and I don't have my can yet. I've been holding off on doing much more in load development, but I might give it another try with lil' gun.
     
    Re: 300 Whisper is here

    The scope it wears now is a SS 10x HD (and a damn fine scope it is!) but that won't do long-term. This will be used to kill piggies, so I need a variable with illumination (preferably.)

    This scope is perfect for load development, but something else is needed for when the rifle goes afield.


    Sharp eye, though.
     
    Re: 300 Whisper is here

    Forgot to mention that I am using a, 35-MOA scope Base but just use a low-end Nikon Buckmaster/Mildot Ret. (as in post i did above) I just use Retical Holdover's for out to a little over 200 yrd. . with the 100 yrd. Zero & Ret. Hold-Under for less yardage shots.
    & That's the thing with the Subsonic Shooters, You really need to have a minimum of 1/2moa Turret for cranking it up on the Holdovers and (IMHO) , that will still suck.
    So I just keep it simple with just leaving the mildot Ret. 4-14 variable power on the 12x for proper Retical range power and just shoot with the Ret. for the most part.
    .
     
    Re: 300 Whisper is here

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DFOOSKING</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Salmonaxe, have you tried a weaker buffer spring? I'm no AR guru but that's just what came to mind when I read your post.

    I'm hoping to convert my RRA .223 varmint to 300 whisper. I personnally hate .223 the more I shoot it, so a conversion seems to me to be the way to go. The light bullets are just too wind and drop prone. If I'm going to deal with drop then I might as well be heavier and dead quiet. 204 and 22-250 are just too much fun. </div></div>

    A weaker buffer spring might help, but I really think that with so many factors affecting the operation of an AR, that it would be hard to tell. Really I think that 300 whisper is pushing the limit of a gas operated system. There's loads of info on it and a lot of people on quarterbore suggested lil' gun. Most of those guys have adjustable gas blocks, though.

    I really think that the weirdest part of it is that the larger loads (more grains of powder) functioned worse. All I can guess is that the powder burned with either too fast of a pressure spike or by being nearly a full case it didn't burn efficiently and had low pressure at the port. I don't know enough about internal ballistics to determine what was happening. Chronograph showed velocities that were on par with load data that I'd acquired.
     
    Re: 300 Whisper is here

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Salmonaxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Noveske AR15 barrels have proven to like:
    220SMK
    9.1gr H110
    205M primer
    2.190 COL
    </div></div>

    Mine wouldn't cycle reliably with this. Anything loaded above this charge weight and it stopped picking up the next round off the mag, but would eject. (weird?) So far I hadn't been able to get anything hold back on the mag release.

    Conditions were below freezing out and I don't have my can yet. I've been holding off on doing much more in load development, but I might give it another try with lil' gun. </div></div>

    First. You need the suppressor. I have no idea why you'd bother trying to set one of these up without one. 99% sure that will fix it.

    Second. What length noveske barrel?
     
    Re: 300 Whisper is here

    Yeah, one reason why I wasn't doing much in the way of load development for it. Still, I figured I'd give it a shot and I had a .30 Noveske KX3, which is supposed to give a bit of back pressure.

    Barrel length is 16", no SBR's allowed in my state.
     
    Re: 300 Whisper is here

    hey Aaron, just wondering if you ever did any research or shoot a Piston conversion AR for subsonic 30-221 ? a shorty piston/suppressed would be gtg or is there some drawbacks ?
    .
    .
     
    Re: 300 Whisper is here

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Salmonaxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah, one reason why I wasn't doing much in the way of load development for it. Still, I figured I'd give it a shot and I had a .30 Noveske KX3, which is supposed to give a bit of back pressure.
    </div></div>
    It doesn't add as much back pressure in low pressure applications. You need the suppressor. Might as well stop until you can do it the right way. When you get it in, hit me up. I've got some interesting load data which will beat whatever anyone else will tell you.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: softcock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">hey Aaron, just wondering if you ever did any research or shoot a Piston conversion AR for subsonic 30-221 ? a shorty piston/suppressed would be gtg or is there some drawbacks ?
    .
    . </div></div>
    What's the point? I don't get it.

    A piston system is great in 3 applications as it pertains to 5.56 guns. High round count between cleaning, short barreled guns, and full auto high volume guns. Learning how to properly maintain your rifle makes it only 2 applications.

    I think a 14" or longer barrel with a piston is the sign of someone who doesn't get it. Depending on my mood I'll say something to them or just shake my head. They make a 16" 5.56 gun. It's an AK.

    Piston systems in .308 should have more merit, but .308 doesn't interest me. I haven't bothered to really mess with it in this application. I will most likely in the coming years, but we are just now really seeing the emergence of piston technology replacing traditional gas operation in these guns.

    So a piston operated shorty suppressed .300 whisper ehh? Sounds dumb. Assuming you can get it to work, I don't really see the point. Piston systems are pretty loud because of how they vent gasses. I'm not really coming up with a good reason why this is a good idea. Maybe you've thinking of something I'm missing.

    The only cool piston suppressed subsonic shorty I can think of would be a .338 Spectre chambered krinkov with a 9mm suppressor, left side charging handle and t1. The big appeal is the left side charger, right side eject part (I'm a right handed guy). Dunno why people can't grasp the importance of this as it pertains to ergonomics and weapons handling.
     
    Re: 300 Whisper is here

    ..." <span style="font-style: italic">What's the point? I don't get it</span>."
    .
    Just asking as I have never had a piston conversion AR. good to hear a few opinions of drawbacks.
    -

    ..."<span style="font-style: italic">So a piston operated shorty suppressed .300 whisper ehh? Sounds dumb. Assuming you can get it to work, I don't really see the point. Piston systems are pretty loud because of how they vent gasses. I'm not really coming up with a good reason why this is a good idea. Maybe you've thinking of something I'm missing</span>. "
    .
    All say the piston is cleaned, On the subject of pistons being louder with there design with a Can ? but what about SubSonic ? Do you need the same volume of gas to run a piston over a normal AR on cycle ?
    I know that AR 30-221/whisper 'Needs' a certain volume while also being limited to a specific burn-rate with a slower pressure spike for working properly. If a piston needs less, then a faster powder with way less gas as a byproduct would be quieter ?
    But I never had a piston conversion before and just gathering info.

    .338 Spectre chambered krinkov sounds pretty badass and like you say with ergonomics with it's looks would be flatass cool and a heavy lead chucker.
    .
     
    Re: 300 Whisper is here

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: softcock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    All say the piston is cleaned, On the subject of pistons being louder with there design with a Can ? but what about SubSonic ? Do you need the same volume of gas to run a piston over a normal AR on cycle ?
    I know that AR 30-221/whisper 'Needs' a certain volume while also being limited to a specific burn-rate with a slower pressure spike for working properly. If a piston needs less, then a faster powder with way less gas as a byproduct would be quieter ?
    But I never had a piston conversion before and just gathering info.
    </div></div>
    Piston systems generally keep the carrier and action area cleaner. This is only important as it pertains to cleaning intervals. Most people who clean their guns on any interval won't achieve a round count that will cause malfunctions and stoppages. I just don't see it. Those who never clean their guns will eventually get malfunctions even with piston systems as it pertains to the AR15 platform. <span style="font-weight: bold">Apparently you need to clean your guns every once and a while. </span> In no way am I advocating routine cleaning. I clean very infrequently. This isn't a big deal if one understands proper lubrication. That's where the big problem lies.

    I have no intention of cleaning the interior of my guns so that I can eat off of them. They don't need to be spotless. Neither does the engine in my car. Lubrication is more important. Let the slurry be. The sales guys do look sharp when they wipe the bolt carrier off with a rag in one pass, but what exactly is the gain? A warm fuzzy feeling? I'd be willing to go out on a very unpopular limb and say most civilian users have no need whatsoever for a Piston AR15. Those that do already know what makes them different from the rest.

    The piston systems excel in limiting the heat transfer which causes other problems. That's why <span style="font-weight: bold">I THINK WITHOUT REALLY TESTING</span> these conversions will have a bigger impact on the .308 systems. Heat causes problems, but only the kind of heat obtained with high continuous rates of fire. <span style="font-style: italic"> More powder=more combustion=more heat. Larger diameter projectile@same speed=larger surface area=more friction=more heat.
    </span>
    Again. I don't see piston systems in subsonic suppressed platforms being really worth while. A direct impingement system makes the suppressors job easier in that it handles less gas. The other nice thing is the direct gas systems keep the gas internal longer VS the piston systems just direct venting it.

    I know of a few functioning units along the lines of what you are asking about. They were built as R&D prototypes. Not because the need exists, but because if people will buy them and a higher profit margin can be obtained....do you see where I'm going with this?

    Fast powder vs slow powder is a different discussion entirely. The .300 whisper cases have a relatively small internal case capacity already. It gets further limited by the size of the projectile, as in how far it extends into the case. You're thinking your way around this all wrong. The mechanics and design of the piston system and the location of the gas port relative to the chamber would be the factors controlling the successful operation of such a platform.
     
    Re: 300 Whisper is here

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Salmonaxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah, one reason why I wasn't doing much in the way of load development for it. Still, I figured I'd give it a shot and I had a .30 Noveske KX3, which is supposed to give a bit of back pressure.
    </div></div>
    It doesn't add as much back pressure in low pressure applications. You need the suppressor. Might as well stop until you can do it the right way. When you get it in, hit me up. I've got some interesting load data which will beat whatever anyone else will tell you.
    </div></div>

    Yeah, I'd pretty much shelved it, but now I'll definitely save it for later. I just had to take it out after I finished the build. Heck I'm just happy that my whisper brass I made on my 650 worked.

    Since you're the suppressor Guru, I've got one quick question.

    I noticed in that other thread about .338 whisper, that you suggested a pistol can because they're designed to work more efficiently at lower pressures. I'm slowly buying cans and just ordered a SAS TI Arbiter. (Got my Spectre .22lr, waiting on my stamp for my 12th model.) It's mainly for use on my bolt actions. I've read about plenty of people using rifle suppressors on their .300 whispers, so I figured it would work with my whisper as well.

    Should I plan on buying a pistol caliber can for the .300 whisper? Or should the rifle suppressor be sufficient?
     
    Re: 300 Whisper is here

    Load up some cheap supersonic loads if you want to shoot it while waiting on the silencer.

    A rifle .30 cal silencer works very well. It's also the way to go if you have a .308 to use it on and the weight is not an issue.
     
    Re: 300 Whisper is here

    The Whisper is now in a McMillan HTG (from JWPrecision, great buying from you, John) and I like it much more.

    On the range tomorrow.

    Supersonics next.
     
    Re: 300 Whisper is here

    whisper.jpg




    I like the stock, reloads still have some work to do, not grouping as great as I would like. Stock might need to be bedded.
     
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