Long time shooter new to reloading. .300 win mag Christensen MPR throwing 200 grn ELD-x behind 73grns of H4831. I got it to spit one hole earlier but I'm concerned that my fps had nearly a 35 fps difference when doing so. What should I be looking at first to reduce SD/ES? I believe brass is fired 3-4 times and no annealing.....i def notice powder blowout residue evident nearly down to shoulder on a few. Should I look at annealing for better chamber seal?
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I honestly dont even know if thats a large difference but figured someone here knows better than I.
Found this while compiling and organizing data over the weekend...
Bergara B14 HMR .300 Win Mag
26" x 1:10
Warner Tool 180 gr FTR Flatline bullets (G1 .712/G7 .360)
Peterson .300 Win Mag "Long" brass.
CCI BR2 LR primers.
Alliant Power Pro 4000 MR: 73.5 gr.
COAL 3.656" (Gotta single feed these)
CBTO 2.928" (with the Hornady 7-28 bullet comparator bushing... Nose is so long they bottom out on the anvil with the .30 cal bushing.)
3165, 3167, 3156 fps
.6 MOA group.
Tune it a bit and/or put someone behind the trigger with some actual talent and it would probably be tighter.
Mike
Bergara B14 HMR .300 Win Mag
26" x 1:10
Warner Tool 180 gr FTR Flatline bullets (G1 .712/G7 .360)
Peterson .300 Win Mag "Long" brass.
CCI BR2 LR primers.
Alliant Power Pro 4000 MR: 73.5 gr.
COAL 3.656" (Gotta single feed these)
CBTO 2.928" (with the Hornady 7-28 bullet comparator bushing... Nose is so long they bottom out on the anvil with the .30 cal bushing.)
3165, 3167, 3156 fps
.6 MOA group.
Tune it a bit and/or put someone behind the trigger with some actual talent and it would probably be tighter.
Mike
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Far from an expert, but I anneal every loading. Does it make my stuff shoot tighter... My experience points to Yes. But the deal maker for me was longer brass life.
Just my $.02
Mike
Pretty sure I wouldn't have to single feed those. I dont predict a shot needed past 500 ish for this Elk season on where we are going but was hoping to feel confident farther and not sure I will if I dont get a better es/sd.
I've toyed with the idea of getting different bottom metal so I can use CIP length mags... But I just don't know enough about it to decide if it would actually work or if it would turn into a giant expensive project.
Pretty sure I would have to trim the feed ramp but that isn't a deal breaker.
Mike
Yeah I def was the one that pushed for the christensen on this kinda group endeavor and tbh the mag is the only compliant I have...it does NOT seat right and we dont have time to fiddle with it before season.....30/70 on whether it feeds last round or not and is sloppy AF in mag well.
If you get CIP length mags, make sure you have a CIP chamber. Cuz it would be awfully stupid to hit the lands at 3.600” COAL after spending all that effort.
I'm well beyond that... In fact, this barrel is probably about done. But I figure it couldn't hurt to upgrade.
I was looking at the Hawkins bottom metal... But like I said, I don't know enough about fit to know if it would work or not.
Mike
If you only had about ten rounds worth of h1000 and 215 bergers but you just wanted to try it, where would you start ?
With the 215 I'm jumping .020" at 2.919" base to ogive. Max oal in this chamber is 3.712 measured with this bullet.
For primers I've got fed 215m, fed210 match, cci250, cci200, ccibr2 and rem9½ standard and magnum.
Norma brass.
With the 215 I'm jumping .020" at 2.919" base to ogive. Max oal in this chamber is 3.712 measured with this bullet.
For primers I've got fed 215m, fed210 match, cci250, cci200, ccibr2 and rem9½ standard and magnum.
Norma brass.
I haven't shot 215 Bergers... But with 225 ELDM's, H1000, CCI BR2's and Peterson brass I was getting heavy bolt lift in hot weather (90°+) with 76.4 gr.
The 215's being 10 grains lighter and depending on your brass you MIGHT be okay with a top end of 77 gr... Then just back down in .5 gr increments to find your start and work up carefully.
This is just a ballpark estimate on a cocktail napkin... So be careful.
Mike
215's with Norma brass, I would use Fed 210M, 75-gr of H1000, and COAL of 3.60"
I had 76 in my mind so I'm right in between. I'll give it a shot. Thanks.
Watch this video from the best reloader on YouTube, and a HOF shooter. Find your stick point and start moving back. You’ll find the magic spot!
Hope I am posting in the right thread. Newb.
Long time shooter, done lots of reloading, but never reloaded belted mags before. Trying 300 win. See attached pics of 2 cases. Right one is normal, left one has a very slight split ring going partially around the case. Too low to be head separation? I cut it open and looked inside, no evidence of the ring showing anywhere inside. Otherwise all looked normal inside.
Would you chuck it or reload it? If I was rich, I'd chuck it, but I ain't. I don't load hot rounds and these two were factory federal 150gr power shoks. Out of the box, 8 of 20 had this same type of partial ring. As an aside, a box of Hornday 150 gr showed no such signs. Simple expansion crack, good to use again and just see if it grows after next fire? I have not yet sized them or anything, just cleaned them.
Thoughts please. Also, do most of you recommend the magnum collet resizing die to control head bulge ?
Long time shooter, done lots of reloading, but never reloaded belted mags before. Trying 300 win. See attached pics of 2 cases. Right one is normal, left one has a very slight split ring going partially around the case. Too low to be head separation? I cut it open and looked inside, no evidence of the ring showing anywhere inside. Otherwise all looked normal inside.
Would you chuck it or reload it? If I was rich, I'd chuck it, but I ain't. I don't load hot rounds and these two were factory federal 150gr power shoks. Out of the box, 8 of 20 had this same type of partial ring. As an aside, a box of Hornday 150 gr showed no such signs. Simple expansion crack, good to use again and just see if it grows after next fire? I have not yet sized them or anything, just cleaned them.
Thoughts please. Also, do most of you recommend the magnum collet resizing die to control head bulge ?
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Man, I don't know. Was that there before they were fired? If so, I almost think the tooling that turns the rim/head OD was out of square or something.
Honestly, I don't know that I would risk it. Might be fine, might be a disaster waiting to happen.
And it is Federal brass after all. No shame, I started reloading with it too... But the primer pockets on Fed cases go quick, even with mild loads they'll stretch out after 4 firings give or take.
Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me will chime in.
Mike
Looks like a ring from the back of the chamber. I ran into that with my last barrel when I was leaning on it pretty heavy. But never with factory ammo. Turns out that chamber actually had a slight burr in it. I'd get tough extraction with some fairly mild loads. Ended up being the reason I got a new barrel.
Factory gun or custom ?
Thanks to both of you, really appreciate any thoughts! Thanks for the heads up on the primers and, yah, I would buy lapua or petersen for brass...if I was richer. lol! That creates a side question, although premium brass is way more expensive, does it last that much longer when reloading belted (assuming I go all in and do it properly, ie. neck'em, FL as needed only, anneal and perhaps magnum collet for head)? Premium brass certianly worth it in non-belted, but curious as to guys thoughts on that too with belted. Maybe I should just bite the bullet and get the good brass, lol.
That said, it's a new factory Bergara B14 HMR and the ammo was new factory ammo too. Oddly, I also shot out a half box of Hornady ammo and no such partial splits/ring at all. The ring is only about 1/3 of the circumference. Can't say I inspected or noticed the split before firing, didn't look. Bullets were on target (ish, lol) out to 500+ yards (first day out with it), I didn't use a chrono or anything so can't say I noticed anything else different about them. Maybe just a bad batch of Federal?
I will get into the chamber and look for any burrs , could explain it perhaps, but odd it was only on some shots, IMHO. Temperature was about 41 degrees so maybe that was a factor but it shouldn't be at that temp? I paced the shots too so the barrel was not running hot either. Also swabbed the barrel after every shot or two. Now, having said that, perhaps you have helped me solve this one. I shot 40 rounds of Federal, with issues as mentioned, then 10 Hornady and nothing. Could be just a barrel break in issue (which I didn't notice until back home and inspecting for reloading)?
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Shite brass? Take a piece of stiff wire and straighten it out, put a little bend on the end so the wire now looks like an L, use the short end to see if you can feel a split inside the case opposite the mark on the outside. If you feel something the case is toast.
Belt does not matter, size your cases so they headspace off of shoulder just like any other case. And yes, good cases are worth it. Properly resized cases will last quite a while unless you really push them.
Belt does not matter, size your cases so they headspace off of shoulder just like any other case. And yes, good cases are worth it. Properly resized cases will last quite a while unless you really push them.
Thanks! I had checked for case head separation inside on all of them and nothing, that's when I decided to cut it open thinking maybe my brass rake and my old numb fingers were missing the telltale ridge inside, but nothing. Insides were perfect even shading/powder burn markings were consistent. I think I may try emailing Federal and see what they say.
Still happy to hear other theories and ideas on this!
Still happy to hear other theories and ideas on this!
If you're just getting started in the winmag game I'd pick up 100 pieces of good brass and start there. I just got a notification yesterday from grafs and they have the Peterson long brass back in stock as of yesterday. I had a pile of federal and remington brass (probably 5-600 pieces) so I'm just running with what I've got. If I only get three or four firings out of them, I'll be fine. That said, I've got a friend that shoots a lot of Norma ammo and doesn't reload, so I've got a line on good free brass.
No stiff bolt lift or extraction issues that you noticed with the federal ammo ? Being 41 degrees I doubt you got a hot round.
I'd toss the bad cases and keep shooting.
Yah, your advice is good XP1K. That's what my gut is telling me too, but it's just that cheap little devil on my shoulder going "come on, push it, it's just a tiny ring, what are you, rich". Then the other voice going, like you, "don't be stupid, if a magnum case is defective in any way chuck it idiot!" lol.
No, I didn't know anything unusual about extraction, chambering, anything and I had a .300 years ago so I know the gun/ammo generally just never reloaded it. I have reached out to Federal, will share their comments once they get back to me.
Really appreciate everyone's thoughts! Thanks guys!
No, I didn't know anything unusual about extraction, chambering, anything and I had a .300 years ago so I know the gun/ammo generally just never reloaded it. I have reached out to Federal, will share their comments once they get back to me.
Really appreciate everyone's thoughts! Thanks guys!
"Premium" brass is absolutely worth it. I wanted Lapua brass for my .300 but they were slow getting it to market... Got tired of waiting and bought 2 boxes of Peterson 300 Win Mag "Long" brass... One box has 8 reloads on it... No case head or primer pocket issues.
You might pay $200 for 100 pcs of Lapua brass... $2 a piece may sound steep. But if you break it down over 10+ reloads it gets pretty cheap... Actually cheaper than Federal brass that MIGHT make it to 6 reloads.
Mike
You might pay $200 for 100 pcs of Lapua brass... $2 a piece may sound steep. But if you break it down over 10+ reloads it gets pretty cheap... Actually cheaper than Federal brass that MIGHT make it to 6 reloads.
Mike
So I heard back from Federal. I sent them extra pics and we had some back and forth. They were fast and a pleasure to work with. They could not say for certain what it was without examining both rifle and case. A chance it could be a chamber issue, but could also just be a bad lot of brass as I had two boxes with the same issue and turns out both were from the same lot. End of the day, they did right by me in my opinion. Won't go into details out of respect for them, but there's a reason they have a good name in my books. Thanks Federal. Thanks all!
So, the saga continues. I kept on shooting with different ammo (Hornady) and something new developed. After every few shots at first, then progressing, the cases became more difficult to extract. I ended up having to mortar the rifle to get many of the cases to extract. A local ex-sniper, judging by his gear, tats, and set up mostly, noticed me struggling extracting the cases. He said, it's probably just the extractor claw and spring, don't worry, contact Bergara and they'll send you a new one, had a few friends with the same issue he said, quick fix and Bergara is good with customer service. I have never had this issue. So, not thinking too much more as he certainly knew his stuff (or more than me), I kept shooting... like an idiot.
Fired off a couple boxes that afternoon, fighting extraction, most of the time. Accuracy was brutal as well. Then, afterwards, called Bergara and after some back and forth they said, please, don't shoot it at all anymore, we'll pay for you to ship the rifle back to us ASAP and we'll look at it. They have it now. Not sure on the verdict yet but sharing this just as a caution to others about stopping shooting if there is any weird stuff happening. Bergara seemed to think it was a serious overpressure issue (the Hornady brass did not crack at all like the Federal did), cause still TBD but, my guess, out of spec chamber? Anyone else want to weigh in just for fun as to cause? FYI, I also showed Bergara the same cracks/rings just above the belt on the Federal cases.
Went to the range Thursday. Had a pretty good day... For me anyway.
Bergara B14 HMR 300 Win Mag
26" x 1:10
EC Tuner brake, but it stayed set at "0"
100 yards from a concrete bench, using bipod and rear bag.
No chronograph readings. Didn't even bring it this time. Just concentrated on shooting.
I've been working on the Fundamentals of Marksmanship and I'm seeing some results. I definitely need more practice. But it is coming along...
Loads tested were:
Hornady 225 ELDM, H1000 from 74.3 - 76.2,
Peterson 300 WM "Long" brass, Fed 215 (blue box, not GMM) 2.758" CBTO magazine fed. No signs of pressure.
Berger 200.20x, Nosler brass, Fed 215, Alliant Power Pro 4000 MR from 67.5 - 70.3
CBTO: 2.870" had to single feed, over mag length. No signs of pressure.
I had shot the 200.20x before (about 2 years ago) and the 67.5 gr charge grouped well then. Velocity back then averaged 2800 fps... Strikes me as a hair slow for a 26" 300WM... ES/SD were pretty bad back then too, 48/18. I may try the 70.3 gr charge again over the chrono and see if the fuller case helps with ES/SD.
Mike
Bergara B14 HMR 300 Win Mag
26" x 1:10
EC Tuner brake, but it stayed set at "0"
100 yards from a concrete bench, using bipod and rear bag.
No chronograph readings. Didn't even bring it this time. Just concentrated on shooting.
I've been working on the Fundamentals of Marksmanship and I'm seeing some results. I definitely need more practice. But it is coming along...
Loads tested were:
Hornady 225 ELDM, H1000 from 74.3 - 76.2,
Peterson 300 WM "Long" brass, Fed 215 (blue box, not GMM) 2.758" CBTO magazine fed. No signs of pressure.
Berger 200.20x, Nosler brass, Fed 215, Alliant Power Pro 4000 MR from 67.5 - 70.3
CBTO: 2.870" had to single feed, over mag length. No signs of pressure.
I had shot the 200.20x before (about 2 years ago) and the 67.5 gr charge grouped well then. Velocity back then averaged 2800 fps... Strikes me as a hair slow for a 26" 300WM... ES/SD were pretty bad back then too, 48/18. I may try the 70.3 gr charge again over the chrono and see if the fuller case helps with ES/SD.
Mike
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I'd say that's good shooting. I am no sniper myself so your shots look great. Appreciate the commentary about pressure. How new is your Bergara?
I am just waiting to get mine back from them, they were really good and, IMHO, fast. They found nothing wrong with the barrel/gun and did a deep dive. The guy I worked with was really good. Very happy with Bergara customer service! Prior to the pressure issue on Day 1 my son was hitting 500 yards consistently and fairly accurately with some wind (me not so much, lol) hoping that means I can teach well at least. We are anxious to get back out and give it an other whirl.
Also appreciate the info about the Hornady 225gr, going to load some of that soon. That's a fair bit of spread on your loads (IMO only, I usually load within 1-2 tenths), did you notice anything in terms of consistency (not in pics obviously, but on other shots?)
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Think I bought mine in summer of '21... The Bergers were one of the first bullets I loaded and tested... Pretty sure the first was the 190 SMK.
Anyway... I tested from 74.3 to 76.2 on the H1000/225's... All were in .3 gr jumps, except as I got near the top I went from 75.8 to 76.0 and then to 76.2... I've gone as high as 76.4 but I wound up having heavy bolt lift on a day over 90°(F)
When I did the first round of testing a year or more ago I used a different primer, BR2's I think. But I wound up getting hangfires in cold weather with them. So I decided to go back to a magnum primer... So I dropped back to a safe start and worked back up as far as I felt comfortable going.
Someone had told me at some point that H1000 doesn't like being mingled with fouling from other powders, and the gun needed cleaned so I cleaned it back to "bare steel." Even stripped the copper fouling out... So I knew my first few shots would probably be wonky, but they weren't too bad.
I guess rather than type, I'll just post the rest of them and show the group sizes with my calipers across the biggest spread...
Those first 4 at 74.3 were clean cold bore shots... And the resin tips on the bullets were really screwed up so I basically called them foulers and just shot. Didn't expect much but they did ok.
Nothing fancy, but pretty good for me. Lol
Mike
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Acquired my brand new 2013 Remington 700 5R Milspec 26" .300WM 10 years ago, and never shot it until 2 weekends ago. Just always had plenty of other .30 calibers to mess with, and i'm mostly a 7mm guy, so never really was interested in shooting it at all.
I only paid $100 for it, as it was what I got in trade for a defective POS Weatherby MK-V (in)AccuMark .257 Wby Mag that had a factory defective barrel on it, and Weatherby refused to warranty it, and so did Criterion, as it was their barrel blank they sold to Weatherby. So, I was in between smiths at the time, as my old smith retired, and was looking for a new one, and so I wanted to get rid of that dumpster-fire pile of shit, so I took it back to the dealer I bought it from back in 2008, and said, "What'll you give me for it?" He said $1,000... So I said, how about an even trade for that new 26" 5R .300WM (they were asking $1,299) back there, it's been on the shelf for a while... So, he said give me $100 for the taxes, and deal. So I did the paperwork, traded them for the 5R .300WM and $100 bill to cover the taxes, and walked out with a new 5R for $100 and Weatherby-free.
I don't even have any updated pictures of the gun, but next time I take it to the range, I will get some.
Took it to the range 2 weekends ago, and had some random ladder test loads I loaded up in 2013 for it, and never shot. Screwed on my TBAC Magnus HUB with the OCL ZR0-DTA direct-thread mount, and put 4 shots through it to get the scope zero'd. Then I shot these first 3 groups out of a brand new rifle... Ignore the black dots, I reused my target from zero'ing the scope.
I only paid $100 for it, as it was what I got in trade for a defective POS Weatherby MK-V (in)AccuMark .257 Wby Mag that had a factory defective barrel on it, and Weatherby refused to warranty it, and so did Criterion, as it was their barrel blank they sold to Weatherby. So, I was in between smiths at the time, as my old smith retired, and was looking for a new one, and so I wanted to get rid of that dumpster-fire pile of shit, so I took it back to the dealer I bought it from back in 2008, and said, "What'll you give me for it?" He said $1,000... So I said, how about an even trade for that new 26" 5R .300WM (they were asking $1,299) back there, it's been on the shelf for a while... So, he said give me $100 for the taxes, and deal. So I did the paperwork, traded them for the 5R .300WM and $100 bill to cover the taxes, and walked out with a new 5R for $100 and Weatherby-free.
I don't even have any updated pictures of the gun, but next time I take it to the range, I will get some.
Took it to the range 2 weekends ago, and had some random ladder test loads I loaded up in 2013 for it, and never shot. Screwed on my TBAC Magnus HUB with the OCL ZR0-DTA direct-thread mount, and put 4 shots through it to get the scope zero'd. Then I shot these first 3 groups out of a brand new rifle... Ignore the black dots, I reused my target from zero'ing the scope.
I'd be happy with those groupings too. I shouldn't have assumed you were not working up loads with that range, my bad, didn't really think your posting through. Sorry man. Interesting about the H1000 not working well with other powders, will remember that. Thanks for the chat!
To: FuhQ. Pretty fine shooting there! And way to work a trade/sale! lol.
When I was younger and first started into shooting Weatherby was probably "the" premium manufacturer so I find your comments surprising but it does seem they have dropped down the list of quality rifle makers over the years. I used to be a Winchester man first and foremost (had a Model 100 in semi auto .308, my favorite gun ever), and almost exclusively, but over the years Winchester seems to have dropped further than Weatherby and I wouldn't buy anything Winchester now.
Prolly gonna rile some guys up with those comments about Winchester and Weatherby, sorry bout that, just making chatter. Lol.
When I was younger and first started into shooting Weatherby was probably "the" premium manufacturer so I find your comments surprising but it does seem they have dropped down the list of quality rifle makers over the years. I used to be a Winchester man first and foremost (had a Model 100 in semi auto .308, my favorite gun ever), and almost exclusively, but over the years Winchester seems to have dropped further than Weatherby and I wouldn't buy anything Winchester now.
Prolly gonna rile some guys up with those comments about Winchester and Weatherby, sorry bout that, just making chatter. Lol.
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No worries. I'm not a newb but I'm far from being accomplished. I'm just mucking my way through this (with pointers from the folks here) as best I can.
The H1000/mixed fouling thing was something I read on here. Don't know how accurate it is, but the gun needed cleaned anyway. I may test it at some point just to see if there's anything to it... 'cause I'm a data driven weirdo like that.
Mike
1 mile,
Ruger Hawkeye LR 300 WM. Crimson Trace 3-24x56 ffp mil in a Griffin Armament SPR one piece mount.
208gr ELDMs over 67.0gr of H100V, PPU brass, Fed GMM 215 primers. CBTO 2.895 .020 off the lands. 2900 fps,
5 shots. 1.19 MOA.
Ruger Hawkeye LR 300 WM. Crimson Trace 3-24x56 ffp mil in a Griffin Armament SPR one piece mount.
208gr ELDMs over 67.0gr of H100V, PPU brass, Fed GMM 215 primers. CBTO 2.895 .020 off the lands. 2900 fps,
5 shots. 1.19 MOA.
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I didn't see a separate thread for 300 WSM, so I'll ask here.
Anyone have Quickload to run a long-throated 300 WSM load? Looking to see where pressure is.
225 ELD-M
67.5 grs H1000
OAL-3.280"
22" 1-9 twist
ADG brass
CCI-250
Thanks
Anyone have Quickload to run a long-throated 300 WSM load? Looking to see where pressure is.
225 ELD-M
67.5 grs H1000
OAL-3.280"
22" 1-9 twist
ADG brass
CCI-250
Thanks
Ref: 300 Wm
Hunting loads
Browning Stainless Stalker
26" barrel w/1 in 10" twist
R & P Brass w/F210 mag
165 gn NBT seated .005 back of lands
70.8 gn RL-19
2950ish fps
.5 MOA@ 200 yds
R & P Brass
180 gn NBT seated .005 back of lands
78.7 gn H1000
3050ish fps
.5 MOA @ 200 yds
Remarks: NW Fla. Deer just simply can't stand these loads!! I very seldom have to chase a wounded deer which is good, because I am 84 yrs old and a little old for that kind of stuff.
Dough Boy - NW Florida
Hunting loads
Browning Stainless Stalker
26" barrel w/1 in 10" twist
R & P Brass w/F210 mag
165 gn NBT seated .005 back of lands
70.8 gn RL-19
2950ish fps
.5 MOA@ 200 yds
R & P Brass
180 gn NBT seated .005 back of lands
78.7 gn H1000
3050ish fps
.5 MOA @ 200 yds
Remarks: NW Fla. Deer just simply can't stand these loads!! I very seldom have to chase a wounded deer which is good, because I am 84 yrs old and a little old for that kind of stuff.
Dough Boy - NW Florida
There is a free alternative to Quickload called GRT (Gordons Reloading Tool), which is similar to QL. If you want it simulated by QL, i have it on disc, but long to no install since i like to use GRT.
Has anyone tried staball HD in 300 WM yet? I had been using IMR 8133, but can not find it, and hodgdon says no eta for new stock, but they recommended staball HD as a good substitute, and it at least has limited availability.
Imr 8133 and 7977 has been discontinued and the staball hd is the replacement from what I understand. I have found n568 was a great replacement for imr 8133.
According to a customer service rep with hodgdon, IMR 8133 has NOT been discontinued, but they don't know when they'll receive more from the manufacturer. I specifically asked if it had been discontinued. This was two days ago.
BTW, thanks for the heads-up on the vv n568. I'll keep an eye out for that. I'm looking for something to push 208-215 gr pills at 2900 fps out of a 26" bbl.
Wow they must of changed there mind that was a big deal with them doing that. Interesting good powders. Yeah n570 is good to for speed
I think I ended up at 78grs.
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