Well I thought I'd have a go at the 900yard F class today. I show up with the Remo 700 XCR in .308 with hand loaded 165gn Nosler BT's traveling at 2745fps. Any way with no real DOPE on the gun I typed it in to bullet flight and got 38moa up and 6moa left. First shot......, over the radio I hear lane 7.......high and sub sonic. So I pulled out 4moa and let the next shot go....... 4 and bullet key hole'd! Hmmmmmmm WTF! I knew it would be subsonic but to key hole? It's a 165gn pill in a 1:12 twist barrel. Any way all my rounds were in the black (8inch group) and out of 2 details I ended up with a score of 94 key holed points...lol. Not to bad for a hunting gun and my first go. So what I'm now wondering is what is going on with the pills to have them key hole and what "hunting pills " survive the transonic change or is it something else causing the in stability? I'm only shooting the F class for fun but it's also training for long range hunting.
F T/R Competition .308 stability issues
- Thread starter PEACEMAKER
- Start date
Re: .308 stability issues
Switch bullets. I don't know the BC data for your bullet, but it sounds too low like a hunting bullet. Try the Berger 155.5 or some other Berger bullet and I'll bet your results will be much better.
Switch bullets. I don't know the BC data for your bullet, but it sounds too low like a hunting bullet. Try the Berger 155.5 or some other Berger bullet and I'll bet your results will be much better.
Re: .308 stability issues
That bullet just does not have the BC for that range.
Like usftr said, change bullets.
That bullet just does not have the BC for that range.
Like usftr said, change bullets.
Re: .308 stability issues
BC of the 165gn nosler balistic tip is .475 the 168gn is .490 . I use to shoot 168gn Amax's but there more a target projectile then a hunting one. I know I can go to a "target" or "match" projectile but my guns are for killing critters not just paper so my importance is performance on flesh firstly and the highest accuracy secondly( still important). I was thinking of trying the 178gn Amax but am worried on there killing performance on pigs and deer at extended ranges. Will they just pencil through or just fall apart on impact.
BC of the 165gn nosler balistic tip is .475 the 168gn is .490 . I use to shoot 168gn Amax's but there more a target projectile then a hunting one. I know I can go to a "target" or "match" projectile but my guns are for killing critters not just paper so my importance is performance on flesh firstly and the highest accuracy secondly( still important). I was thinking of trying the 178gn Amax but am worried on there killing performance on pigs and deer at extended ranges. Will they just pencil through or just fall apart on impact.
Re: .308 stability issues
Try one of the hunting VLD's from Berger. Great long range performance (ballistics). I've never personally used them for hunting, so I can't say how good they are for that application. However, many people are very happy with them. Just do a YouTube search of "Berger" and "hunting" for first hand information. They have 168, 175 and 185 grain bullets. I'm sure your 1:12 will like one of these quite well. The trick to get them to shoot well is to seat them to either seat them to magazine length (best for your application) or jam them into the lands a little.
Try one of the hunting VLD's from Berger. Great long range performance (ballistics). I've never personally used them for hunting, so I can't say how good they are for that application. However, many people are very happy with them. Just do a YouTube search of "Berger" and "hunting" for first hand information. They have 168, 175 and 185 grain bullets. I'm sure your 1:12 will like one of these quite well. The trick to get them to shoot well is to seat them to either seat them to magazine length (best for your application) or jam them into the lands a little.
Re: .308 stability issues
The A-max's would be a great dual purpose bullet for hunting and match shooting. The 178 A-max wold be my pick. I've killed a lot of stuff with the A-max. The 165 BT has a poor BC, and that's why it's going subsonic and tumbling/keyholing.
The A-max's would be a great dual purpose bullet for hunting and match shooting. The 178 A-max wold be my pick. I've killed a lot of stuff with the A-max. The 165 BT has a poor BC, and that's why it's going subsonic and tumbling/keyholing.
Re: .308 stability issues
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 64C</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BC of the 165gn nosler balistic tip is .475 the 168gn is .490 . I use to shoot 168gn Amax's but there more a target projectile then a hunting one. I know I can go to a "target" or "match" projectile but my guns are for killing critters not just paper so my importance is performance on flesh firstly and the highest accuracy secondly( still important). I was thinking of trying the 178gn Amax but am worried on there killing performance on pigs and deer at extended ranges. Will they just pencil through or just fall apart on impact. </div></div>
Tell us, how well will that bullet perform on flesh while it's tumbling through the air? I understand what you are saying, I shoot fclass for the exact same reason, but flesh or paper, an unstable bullet is an unstable bullet.
But I'm just dispatching coyotes, so my requirements for bullet performance on flesh are different.
I've read good things on the Amax, but with no firsthand experience all I can recommend is reading a bit more on them. Look up some of the threads that are titled, "long range kill," " 1400 yard deer," etc... They usually turn into big arguments about bullet choice and a calibers abilities, you can extract some good info out of the BS.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 64C</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BC of the 165gn nosler balistic tip is .475 the 168gn is .490 . I use to shoot 168gn Amax's but there more a target projectile then a hunting one. I know I can go to a "target" or "match" projectile but my guns are for killing critters not just paper so my importance is performance on flesh firstly and the highest accuracy secondly( still important). I was thinking of trying the 178gn Amax but am worried on there killing performance on pigs and deer at extended ranges. Will they just pencil through or just fall apart on impact. </div></div>
Tell us, how well will that bullet perform on flesh while it's tumbling through the air? I understand what you are saying, I shoot fclass for the exact same reason, but flesh or paper, an unstable bullet is an unstable bullet.
But I'm just dispatching coyotes, so my requirements for bullet performance on flesh are different.
I've read good things on the Amax, but with no firsthand experience all I can recommend is reading a bit more on them. Look up some of the threads that are titled, "long range kill," " 1400 yard deer," etc... They usually turn into big arguments about bullet choice and a calibers abilities, you can extract some good info out of the BS.
Re: .308 stability issues
I've shot 7mm 168gr Bergers at 2850fps. I've killed 2 Antelopes 1 at 440yds and 1 at 175yds both dead within 20yds of where they where killed. I know some guys that have shot and killed farther than that. Hope this helps. The Long Range Hunting forum has tons of info about hunting with VLD bullets.
I've shot 7mm 168gr Bergers at 2850fps. I've killed 2 Antelopes 1 at 440yds and 1 at 175yds both dead within 20yds of where they where killed. I know some guys that have shot and killed farther than that. Hope this helps. The Long Range Hunting forum has tons of info about hunting with VLD bullets.
