338 Norma is scary accurate...

mudvayne

mudvayne

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 23, 2011
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Washington TX
#1
Guys just picked up my 338 norma last week and have it broke in now...just know that this thing is wicked accurate. After the break in was done it shot .136" at 100 and when I get a chance I will show the 1300 yard group. Just know it is small

Chase
 
#2
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

Pics or BS!
wink.gif
 
#5
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

What gun?
What scope?
What base?
What rings?
What ammo?

Huh, .136" at 100??? Smaller than a bullet??? I smell some BS here. And how do you know the group is small if you never shot at 1300 yet? What is "small" to you?
 
#6
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

Chase,
Please follow up, I have a friend building one of these and we're all ears.
And, I won't question your group measuring skills!!
Miles
 
#7
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VYD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Huh, .136" at 100??? Smaller than a bullet??? I smell some BS here. And how do you know the group is small if you never shot at 1300 yet? What is "small" to you? </div></div>

A .136" group would measure .474" outside. To measure group size you measure the outside edges of the two farthest holes and then subtract the bullet diameter to give you center to center of the bullet holes. What he is saying is the rifle shot a one hole group that measured .474" on the outside.

I took it that he has already shot it at 1300 and needed more time to post the pics. If I know Mudvayne this group will be under 6 1/2",, 1/2 MOA or less to get him excited.

Looking forward to the pics Mudvayne.

Jeff
 
#8
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

VYD, your reading comprehension is lacking......

BTW Broz, while your method works, I like to measure from the outside edge of the outermost impact to the inside edge of the opposite or furthest impact.

.338 Norma is quite an amazing round. It won't replace the .338 Lapua, but it sure has been getting more popular.

Interested in seeing the pics and getting rifle specs.
 
#9
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RussW1911 ®</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

BTW Broz, while your method works, I like to measure from the outside edge of the outermost impact to the inside edge of the opposite or furthest impact.
</div></div>


Agreed, and will give the same results. Especially when distances are greater and groups are larger. But with a ragged one hole group the method I suggested is the only way as bullets are compiled into only one hole. It should also be mentioned that measuring groups this way gives a size measurement that is comparable and equal to all calibers. This method does not handicap the larger bullets diameters for making a larger hole. All calibers are on the same playing field as we are getting a measurement that is a reference to center impact to center impact.

Jeff
 
#10
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RussW1911 ®</div><div class="ubbcode-body">VYD, your reading comprehension is lacking......
</div></div>

Hehe, I've read it in the hurry. But still would like to know what gun, scope, and everything else...I personally won't even start a post with no pics.
 
#13
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

What kind of velocity are you getting with the 300gr??in what barrel length??
And what powder have you found the best??
 
#14
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

I have some time behind a 300 Norma and it is very accurate, not 5 round groups but it was consistently printing 1/4" 3 round groups. It was enough to make me consider selling a kidney to buy one myself.
 
#15
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

I have a 300 Norma Mag at the smiths and should be done this week. I've heard nothing but good about this cartridge.

Will post a review when it is up and running.
 
#16
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

awesome round mine is scary accurate and not very finicky because you can seat the bullets out you really dont give mu much case capacity to the lapua but you can more easily seat to the lands and effectively play with seating depth to tweak accuracy for you hand loaders. i own and love both but if i were to build another it would prob be in the norma.
 
#17
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

I moved away from the 338 lapua last year and had Greg Tannel build me a 300 Norma on a Bat action and Broughton barrel. Shooting the Berger 210 it maintains sub 1/4 moa. I'm awaitng the 230 bergers to see how they compare past 1200.
If it ever becomes a factory chambering by-by 300 ulta mag.
 
#18
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am definitely thinking about one of these seeing the results people are getting, I think I may have to modify something here and move over to 338 Norma for a little try. </div></div>

You would only have to set back one of your existing LM barrels about 1/2" to rechamber to a Norma Magnum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:.338_Lapua_Magnum_vs_.338_Norma_Magnum.jpg
 
#19
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Training Wheels</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am definitely thinking about one of these seeing the results people are getting, I think I may have to modify something here and move over to 338 Norma for a little try. </div></div>

You would only have to set back one of your existing LM barrels about 1/2" to rechamber to a Norma Magnum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:.338_Lapua_Magnum_vs_.338_Norma_Magnum.jpg</div></div>


No, I would have to make a phone call and get a new barrel... already chambered in what I need... LOL

I can use a donor action,but I won't use a USED 338LM barrel... that is starting off with one hand behind my back.

I would start fresh barrel wise.
 
#20
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

The .300 NM and .338 NM are great choices for the long range game. Very similar to the .300 Hulk obviously but less brass work and life. We are currently building a .338 NM and a .338 Hulk for some shooters out west as well as a couple 7 mm Hulks.
If I only had ONE choice I would pick the .300 NM over the .338 NM for many reasons. This comes from 1000's of rounds of experience with the two and in the end the .300 NM will outperform the .338 NM in MOST shooters hands.
Many many times (most) of the .338 shooters are dominated by our .300 NMIMP or the .300 Hulk from 276 yards to 1650. The stats can't and don't lie.
Now, if your shooting 2000 yards PLUS 75% of the time then the .338 might make be the better choice. IF not, then the .300 is the bang for the buck.

Anyone on the Hide interested in demoing either one of these let us know.
 
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#21
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tom Sarver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The .300 NM and .338 NM are great choices for the long range game. Very similar to the .300 Hulk obviously but less brass work and life. We are currently building a .338 NM and a .338 Hulk for some shooters out west as well as a couple 7 mm Hulks.
If I only had ONE choice I would pick the .300 NM over the .338 NM for many reasons. This comes from 1000's of rounds of experience with the two and in the end the .300 NM will outperform the .338 NM in MOST shooters hands.
Many many times (most) of the .338 shooters are dominated by our .300 NMIMP or the .300 Hulk from 276 yards to 1650. The stats can't and don't lie.
Now, if your shooting 2000 yards PLUS 75% of the time then the .338 might make be the better choice. IF not, then the .300 is the bang for the buck.

Anyone on the Hide interested in demoing either one of these let us know. </div></div>

Very interesting comment I wonder if this would still be true when the new berger Gen2 300gr hybrid comes on line??
 
#22
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, I would have to make a phone call and get a new barrel... already chambered in what I need... LOL</div></div>

It's good to be the king...
wink.gif
 
#23
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

Sir,

When talking distances being shot per say over 2000 yards I'm sure it
will be king. But to distances from 100 to 2000 I don't see it dominating any of the courses we have here.
Don't get me wrong..I'm a HUGE .338 fan and I know what a well built rifle with good loads/bullets and a good shooter behind it can do.
But when you compare the data sheets here from 100 to 2000 yards the .338 is not the king.
Again, past 2000 yards and to 2500 I would say this is the cartridge to use hands down in the "normal" world we shoot in.
I'm comparing the .300 NM .300 Hulk to the .338 NM .338 Hulk out to 2000 yards. Beyond 2000 yards the .338 becomes a score gun and in our world that is what is important.
Although most "snipers" don't care about groups but score..as in hits this is where the .338 shines at past 2000 yards. IMHO these rifles should be single shots for a few reasons to even begin to compare to a single shot .300 NM or .300 Hulk in "group" accuracy.
Our new .300 and .338 Thunder Hulk will be our test rifles to 3000 yards. The .300 will do 2500 easy..like the Hulk. The .338 Thunder Hulk will do 3000-3500. I'm am excited to see and test any new .338 bullet from Berger or anyone else.
All in all a shooter who is interested in a .300 NM or .338 NM you cannot go wrong with either. Just ask yourself the honest question that I ask all of my customers when they are considering a LRPR...
"How far do you want to shoot accurately...and what is the percentage you will be shooting that distance...25 % of your shots? 50%...75% ? If it's 50% then yes go with a .338. If it's 10% and it's probably lower on average..go with the .300

Hope this info can help someone decide.
 
#25
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

The .300 WM is a good cartridge but cases like the .300 NM can send bullets much faster and further and more accurately.
When I designed the .300 Hulk in early 2000 I wanted something that would launch 210's and 240 at great speed...or 300-400 faster than a WM. And that is exactly what it does.
Even the .300 WSM is better for a few reasons than the WM.
Short and fat is always better than long and thin. Barrels are stiffer that way and so are cases. It's the whole package that makes up a long range CONSISTANT tack driver.
I will try to show some cases we are tinkering with.
The original poster is correct when he said the .338 NM is scary accurate..and there is a reason for that.
 
#26
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

100_0811.jpg


The .300 Hulk shown on left and the .338 NM on the right.
Hulk is designed from .338 LM which measures .588 on the head/body just above the rim/grove and the NM measures .584
The .338 Hulk is same as .300 Hulk just necked up to .338.
Same goes fro the 7 mm Hulk.
We/TVP have a .300 NM IMP reamer as well as a .338 NM IMP reamer
which are exact as the Hulk except for the 4 tho diff at the head.
 
#29
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

Tom, can you put up some comparison numbers for what the MV's with the 338 LM and 338 NM or 338 NM Imp are capable of?

Obviously the repeatability level is tantamount, just curious how the slightly smaller NM cases stack up.

The 7 Hulk sounds a lot like a 7 "Thor" or 7-300NM Imp. (7 Gradous) that a friend of mine owns. "Overbore" is a nice term for that thing, but it is exceptionally consistent at very long ranges.
 
#30
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tom Sarver</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> When I designed the .300 Hulk in early 2000 I wanted something that would launch 210's and 240 at great speed...or 300-400 faster than a WM. And that is exactly what it does.
</div></div>

Interesting!! So you are saying the .300 Hulk will send a 210 to a MV of 3300 fps?

Thanks!
Jeff
 
#32
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cheytac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My 300 norma will drive a 210 berger 3195fps out of a 27" tube and the HULK should exceeded that easily. </div></div>

Nice, Thanks!

Jeff
 
#33
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

My current 210 Berger load is 87 gr. H1000 at 3375 fps out of a 30" tube 10 twist.
In a day or two I will be testing the new Berger 230 out to 2000 yards. I normally can launch a 240 SMK at 3000+ easy and that is the bullet that holds the two world records at 1000 yards.
 
#34
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tom Sarver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My current 210 Berger load is 87 gr. H1000 at 3375 fps out of a 30" tube 10 twist.
In a day or two I will be testing the new Berger 230 out to 2000 yards. I normally can launch a 240 SMK at 3000+ easy and that is the bullet that holds the two world records at 1000 yards. </div></div> Tom what altitude are you at ?
 
#37
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

I'd say with the right powder you can expect 2850 or so in a 28" tube.
I'll ask one of my customers what his current load is and get back to you on that. Barrel twist and length is one of the main factors as well as how tight the bore is. Kriegers do very well along with Lilja and Broughton.
Improved cases are nice but the more I work with them the more I like to keep it simple. Especially when you load for 4 rifles like I do. If you have the time and energy they are hard to beat for performance and longevity though.
 
#38
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tom Sarver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd say with the right powder you can expect 2850 or so in a 28" tube.
I'll ask one of my customers what his current load is and get back to you on that. Barrel twist and length is one of the main factors as well as how tight the bore is. Kriegers do very well along with Lilja and Broughton.
Improved cases are nice but the more I work with them the more I like to keep it simple. Especially when you load for 4 rifles like I do. If you have the time and energy they are hard to beat for performance and longevity though. </div></div>

Just got my bbl for my DTA. Finished at 30". Was also curious what powder. 2850 is what I was hoping for and I think I should get it. Time will tell. Will have some bullets in the air in a week or so!
 
#42
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

To date the rifles have been built on a BAT 1.4, Lawton 400X but most of our designs are built on the Surgeon XL single shot and repeater.
The Rem will work just fine in this application and the proof is there. I here folks talking about the dia. of the rem not being large enough to handle the .338 LM and I have to disagree. Are there better actions for the application.....? Yes, but the Rem. and the Rem. clones have shown that they can perform. Two have been going strong for many years so that's how we know..and they are .300 Hulks.
 
#43
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

As the man submitting proof loads to CIP etc on both these rounds...yesTom is 100% right. The 300NM with 240grn SMK beats the .338NM with 300grn SMK out to 1600m consistently (we have no facilities to test at longer range)- although the difference isn't great and in an actual competition rather than heavy barrel in a rest it would come down to the shooter.

Velocities being published on this forum are higher than I can get within pressure. Partly becuase US shooter have access to powders like H1000 which is banned in europe (it contains DNT). I have got some very high velocities using the new St Marks ball powders but they lacked temperature stability and often failed to deliver top accuracy. ( our ammunition has to be heated to 50ºc for two days and stay within pressure - many powders fail or you have to download a whole bunch - then the fancy powders deliver no better velocities than traditional high energy powder like MRP 2 or Vit 570
 
#44
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

2850 MV with 300's from a 338 NM seems fast to me. That is a bit over what my .338 LM will do with either the the 300 SMK's or Gen2 OTM Bergers. Even with a fast barrel with 1200 rounds down it and 27 1/2". I am at 4200 ft and use H-1000. I have tried Retumbo as well. I start to get a stiff bolt lift at 2850 but all is good at 2805. Lapua brass. Measured with an Oehler 35 and drops confirmed to past 1 mile. If the .338 NM will indeed send 300's faster than the LM then I will be looking hard at this for the next tube on my rifle. If I may ask what was the charge of H-1000?

Thanks !
Jeff
 
#45
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

Quick sidetrack-For those in the know, two quick questions-

Has the OBP(R)715 powder become readily available yet?

Those that have shot the powder...What are the temperature tolerance characteristics of this powder?

Why does the 300 Norma have .0135 case body TPI vs. the .0064 TPI of the 338 Norma?

Chase-Look forward to your 1300 yard group pic.
 
#46
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

I'm running a 300 gr. Scenar at 2904 fps +/- 2-3 fps on average.
This is done with 92 grns. of H1000, fed 215 primer and Lapua brass out of a 28" 9.25 twist barrel. This is not a high pressure load.
FPS MV is proofed on 100 yard increment targets to 1200.
603 yards and 1008 on clay birds spot on with 2904 dope on NF program. Then center shot hits from 100 to 1200 on 12"x12" plates verifies MV/FPS is 2900+
For years I've scratched my head as to why one rifle/same load can differ in MV even in two identacle built rifles. We see it in Hulks and .260's and even .308's. Some greater than others but by far true and accurate MV's proven in extensive field tests.
One can expect 2750-2850 fps in the IMP .338 NM (300 gr.) and 2750-2900 in a straight up .338 LM. (300 gr.) This is from our experience tuning and training hundreds of clients shooting these weapons systems with the same tried and proven method.

Hope this helps!
 
#48
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

93.5gn of n570 will get you over 2900fps in a standard 338 norma mag.

92gn of retumbo will get me 2850fps

this is out of my 26inch barrel.
 
#49
Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

Sir,

I feel out of respect I should not hijack this mans thread with this info. I will however have some news/info in the next few weeks about it and I will be in touch as well as post some info on the Hide for those interested.
All I can say for now is they will shadow any other .30 cal magnum and bring a whole new meaning to the .338 Short magnum with MV's in the 3400 fps realm. As for .30 cal bullets..how fast you wanna go!
 
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