Re: 338 Norma Magnum
Got a brass prep question for you folks:
What are you doing to the new Norma brass before you shoot if anything...resize? uniform primer pockets? Trim to length? etc etc.
I just cut one case with a Sinclair primer pocket uniformer and got a lot of brass. The case length is shorter than the min trim length, so I did not think I should cut off anymore.
Thanks!
Got a brass prep question for you folks:
What are you doing to the new Norma brass before you shoot if anything...resize? uniform primer pockets? Trim to length? etc etc.
I just cut one case with a Sinclair primer pocket uniformer and got a lot of brass. The case length is shorter than the min trim length, so I did not think I should cut off anymore.
Thanks!
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
Norma brass is very good. Run it over a neck expander to make sure it's round, chamfer it in and out. Don't screw with OAL or primer pockets until you shoot it once to fireform it and shoot it again to see how it works.
One thing I do with all new belted cases (not my invention) is to expand the neck up (in your case to 35 caliber) and then neck it back down to 338 until you can just close the bolt on it. This step will ensure the cartridge will headspace on the shoulder on the first firing rather than the belt. This will avoid case stretching and give you much longer brass life. Most belted cases are made with the shoulder set too far back to ensure they will fit in any chamber (that's why they were invented by the Brits way back when as guns in India and Africa often had dirty or rusty chambers from corrosive primers and cordite powder). With todays primers, powders and cleaner rifles, headpacing on the shoulder is the way to go.
Hope this helps!
Norma brass is very good. Run it over a neck expander to make sure it's round, chamfer it in and out. Don't screw with OAL or primer pockets until you shoot it once to fireform it and shoot it again to see how it works.
One thing I do with all new belted cases (not my invention) is to expand the neck up (in your case to 35 caliber) and then neck it back down to 338 until you can just close the bolt on it. This step will ensure the cartridge will headspace on the shoulder on the first firing rather than the belt. This will avoid case stretching and give you much longer brass life. Most belted cases are made with the shoulder set too far back to ensure they will fit in any chamber (that's why they were invented by the Brits way back when as guns in India and Africa often had dirty or rusty chambers from corrosive primers and cordite powder). With todays primers, powders and cleaner rifles, headpacing on the shoulder is the way to go.
Hope this helps!
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
Thanks for the comments.
...except there is no belt on the case
Thanks for the comments.
...except there is no belt on the case
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
What contour and length barrels are you guys using. I'm planning on ordering my Christmas present.
What contour and length barrels are you guys using. I'm planning on ordering my Christmas present.
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
Has the brass managed to make its way out to anyone yet? I've been looking with no sucess.
JeffVN
Has the brass managed to make its way out to anyone yet? I've been looking with no sucess.
JeffVN
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
Thanks, just sent in my order for the group buy.
Thanks, just sent in my order for the group buy.
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emilio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks, just sent in my order for the group buy. </div></div>
What did I miss?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emilio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks, just sent in my order for the group buy. </div></div>
What did I miss?
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
Ahhhh...I need folks to interpret stuff for me LOL.
Sent you a PM V.
Ahhhh...I need folks to interpret stuff for me LOL.
Sent you a PM V.
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
Sorry, it was the Rock barrel group buy.
Sorry, it was the Rock barrel group buy.
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
FWIW...here's the math I've done on dies for the Norma.
Some of this has been previously posted in some form/fashion...just passing this along.
Hornady
Lonnie Hummel
[email protected]
Phone: 800-338-3220 ext. 208
$175 for FL sizer/neck bushing and Seater Die set
10-12 week wait
Forster
No specific POC
[email protected]
Phone
815)493-6360
$95 for FL sizer and BR Seater Die set
Neil Jones
[email protected]
http://www.neiljones.com/
1" die
His prices are posted at the website above
Wait was 6-10 weeks depends on timing and if you can provide fired brass upfront
CH4D
[email protected]
http://www.ch4d.com/
They'd like to see this be a 1" die, but would make you a 7/8"
Price...don't have it in front of me, but I remember just a little north of $150 for a FL Sizer and Seater.
Wait:6-8 weeks
FWIW...Both Hornady and Forster informed me they plan on adding the 338 Norma to their list of standard dies.
I'm sure Redding/RCBS and others can help out too....this is just the homework I've done.
Hope it helps out.
FWIW...here's the math I've done on dies for the Norma.
Some of this has been previously posted in some form/fashion...just passing this along.
Hornady
Lonnie Hummel
[email protected]
Phone: 800-338-3220 ext. 208
$175 for FL sizer/neck bushing and Seater Die set
10-12 week wait
Forster
No specific POC
[email protected]
Phone
815)493-6360$95 for FL sizer and BR Seater Die set
Neil Jones
[email protected]
http://www.neiljones.com/
1" die
His prices are posted at the website above
Wait was 6-10 weeks depends on timing and if you can provide fired brass upfront
CH4D
[email protected]
http://www.ch4d.com/
They'd like to see this be a 1" die, but would make you a 7/8"
Price...don't have it in front of me, but I remember just a little north of $150 for a FL Sizer and Seater.
Wait:6-8 weeks
FWIW...Both Hornady and Forster informed me they plan on adding the 338 Norma to their list of standard dies.
I'm sure Redding/RCBS and others can help out too....this is just the homework I've done.
Hope it helps out.
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
Case specs as follows;
case ; (Min) 2.492 (Max) 2.502
OAL; 3.602 with 300gr Sierra seated
CaseHead,:.584 Unfired To Fired .585
Useable Case Capacity with 300gr seated at 3.602: 96.0gr and from there grain capacity will vary in choice of powders;
And yes there is a 30 cal designed for the 240gr Sierra that will carry an OAL of shorter measure with 240 properly seated and yet with shorter headspacing;
Case specs as follows;
case ; (Min) 2.492 (Max) 2.502
OAL; 3.602 with 300gr Sierra seated
CaseHead,:.584 Unfired To Fired .585
Useable Case Capacity with 300gr seated at 3.602: 96.0gr and from there grain capacity will vary in choice of powders;
And yes there is a 30 cal designed for the 240gr Sierra that will carry an OAL of shorter measure with 240 properly seated and yet with shorter headspacing;
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
Cheese,
What pressure level, what charge weight, what barrel length?
Cheese,
What pressure level, what charge weight, what barrel length?
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1SMALLJOHNSON</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cheese,
What pressure level, what charge weight, what barrel length? </div></div>
1SMALLJOHNSON,
We have bumped up the RSM to 93.0. Without the use of a test barrel there is no real noticeable signs of overpressure. Bolt lift is good, brass will go straight back in chamber with no problems etc...
We have used both a Brux and a Rock at 26".
The velocities are very consistant with the suppressor used on most of the firing.
With the combination of the suppressor and our kits on the bipods the recoil and recovery is fantastic considering the fact that a 300gr. projectile is going down range. Jimmy knows just how accurate it has shot.
Drop me an email at [email protected] for any further specifics. Video available, I'd really enjoy talking with you.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1SMALLJOHNSON</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cheese,
What pressure level, what charge weight, what barrel length? </div></div>
1SMALLJOHNSON,
We have bumped up the RSM to 93.0. Without the use of a test barrel there is no real noticeable signs of overpressure. Bolt lift is good, brass will go straight back in chamber with no problems etc...
We have used both a Brux and a Rock at 26".
The velocities are very consistant with the suppressor used on most of the firing.
With the combination of the suppressor and our kits on the bipods the recoil and recovery is fantastic considering the fact that a 300gr. projectile is going down range. Jimmy knows just how accurate it has shot.
Drop me an email at [email protected] for any further specifics. Video available, I'd really enjoy talking with you.
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
Thanks for the report Cheese.
Do you have a velocity at 93 grains, and what load has had the best accuracy thus far?
By the way, Ramshot Magnum just smells good burning LOL.
Mine gets a workout next Sunday.
Thanks for the report Cheese.
Do you have a velocity at 93 grains, and what load has had the best accuracy thus far?
By the way, Ramshot Magnum just smells good burning LOL.
Mine gets a workout next Sunday.
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
Interesting thread.
Sounds about like the Lazzeroni Galaxy which is a .338 necked up Patriot.
Interesting that Lazzeroni's loading data endorses RL15, RL19, and IMR4350 powders, with 250gr bullet generating about 2800fps from a mid 60s powder charge.
After messing around with some of the super-magnums, like .30-378Wby and .338Ultra, .300Ultra; I concluded that less was more. I have seen some great results in terms of flexibility of power from the .338/300 Win Mag. Simple to neck up .300Win brass. Lots of quality brass available, and great versatility. With 65gr of xmr 4350 and a 250gr bullet it is a kitten. With 78+ grains it really comes on strong. Very comparable to the .340Wby and the .338Ultra, but less powder and cheaper brass.
In the TRG-42 magazine there is right at 3.75" of clearance. I load Hornady 250gr to 3.626", this seats the bullet about .1525" before the cannelure. Since this bullet has about .425" from base to lower edge of cannelure, this enables the bullet to seat only in the neck shank of the case.
The .338/300 is also easily FL or neck sized in a Redding Type S bushing die. I made my own neck bushing a couple years ago, but maybe Redding or Forster is producing bushings in .355-.362 these days? Easy to seat in a .338Win competition seater.
How much more room can you use to seat a bullet? The TRG-42 magazine, (same as TRG-S, dimensionally), would allow about any bullet to be employed to maximum case efficiency; at least with .338/300.
My earliest load workups were done with a Rem 700 and BDL sporter barrel in .338Win that I improved. The 65gr load in this 8lb rifle felt about like a .308win, yet this was with a 250gr bullet.
Can sure appreciate the better barrel life that a short Jeffrey or short Rigby case can produce compared to the Lapua or .378Wby cases, and the accuracy enhancement of the short/stout case for powder ignition uniformity. But... My TRG-42 magazine holds 7rds fully loaded. The cases are perfect for the magazine dimensions. A .338-06AI or .338GibbsAI might really be the best of all worlds in terms of velocity, magazine capacity, and quality brass readily available.
For versatility though, the .338/300 offers it all.
I understand about ballistic coefficiency, but what about lighter weight .338 match bullets? Something like a 180gr VLD? How much more can a .470bc bullet launched at 3400fps do at 1200+ meters than a 2900fps .580bc bullet??
The .30cal match bullets with high BC have too much bearing area to develop velocity compared to .338 potentials. Yet, how do the factors of less recoil and very enhanced velocity with BC comparable to 168/175 .30cal match bullets, compare with the heavier bullets? Remains to be seen.
Always intriguing to discuss cartridge and bullet performance!
Interesting thread.
Sounds about like the Lazzeroni Galaxy which is a .338 necked up Patriot.
Interesting that Lazzeroni's loading data endorses RL15, RL19, and IMR4350 powders, with 250gr bullet generating about 2800fps from a mid 60s powder charge.
After messing around with some of the super-magnums, like .30-378Wby and .338Ultra, .300Ultra; I concluded that less was more. I have seen some great results in terms of flexibility of power from the .338/300 Win Mag. Simple to neck up .300Win brass. Lots of quality brass available, and great versatility. With 65gr of xmr 4350 and a 250gr bullet it is a kitten. With 78+ grains it really comes on strong. Very comparable to the .340Wby and the .338Ultra, but less powder and cheaper brass.
In the TRG-42 magazine there is right at 3.75" of clearance. I load Hornady 250gr to 3.626", this seats the bullet about .1525" before the cannelure. Since this bullet has about .425" from base to lower edge of cannelure, this enables the bullet to seat only in the neck shank of the case.
The .338/300 is also easily FL or neck sized in a Redding Type S bushing die. I made my own neck bushing a couple years ago, but maybe Redding or Forster is producing bushings in .355-.362 these days? Easy to seat in a .338Win competition seater.
How much more room can you use to seat a bullet? The TRG-42 magazine, (same as TRG-S, dimensionally), would allow about any bullet to be employed to maximum case efficiency; at least with .338/300.
My earliest load workups were done with a Rem 700 and BDL sporter barrel in .338Win that I improved. The 65gr load in this 8lb rifle felt about like a .308win, yet this was with a 250gr bullet.
Can sure appreciate the better barrel life that a short Jeffrey or short Rigby case can produce compared to the Lapua or .378Wby cases, and the accuracy enhancement of the short/stout case for powder ignition uniformity. But... My TRG-42 magazine holds 7rds fully loaded. The cases are perfect for the magazine dimensions. A .338-06AI or .338GibbsAI might really be the best of all worlds in terms of velocity, magazine capacity, and quality brass readily available.
For versatility though, the .338/300 offers it all.
I understand about ballistic coefficiency, but what about lighter weight .338 match bullets? Something like a 180gr VLD? How much more can a .470bc bullet launched at 3400fps do at 1200+ meters than a 2900fps .580bc bullet??
The .30cal match bullets with high BC have too much bearing area to develop velocity compared to .338 potentials. Yet, how do the factors of less recoil and very enhanced velocity with BC comparable to 168/175 .30cal match bullets, compare with the heavier bullets? Remains to be seen.
Always intriguing to discuss cartridge and bullet performance!
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
Thought I would post a brief range report to keep the thread alive
Got to shoot 50 rounds this weekend through my Snyder built 338. It is a Remington Long Action in an AICS and has a 28" Brux barrel and a Badger FTE on the front end. Recoil was there, of course, but was very manageable. Could easily shoot this gun all day. Was able to see hits on the steel at 600 with no problems.
All my loads at 90.5 to 92.5 (in half grain increments)of Ramshot Magnum should have been one ragged hole but for the guy doing the shooting... they really all looked about the same which makes load development kinda funny. (no picture at the moment, but I'll try to get one).
Velocities were as follows for just 5 shot average:
90.5 = 2776
91 = 2778 (one round at 2757 drug down the avg)
91.5 = 2786
92 = 2787 (one round at 2759)
92.5 = 2824
warning, if you use these loads in your rifle without working up, it may kill you and everyone you know and destroy life on the planet as we know it (how was that for a qualifier?)
I tried to shoot a group on my piece of LV Shooter steel at 600 yards, but round number two (which hit one inch from round number one) caused the wooden post that was holding the steel to break in half ... this aint a 308.
The only group at 600 is the below pic (just the 5 hits to the left of the tape), which I thought was pretty decent for our first day together. This was the 92 grain load. I was holding off the top left corner of the target as it was getting a tad breezy, and my elevation was a WAG...with a more defined aiming point (and the shooter not flinching) I think it will do much better.
Anyway, very promising initial trip, and lots of fun for my first big gun. I watched my buddy shoot a few rounds, and the trace is just hysterical...looks like a boat moving through water.
Thought I would post a brief range report to keep the thread alive
Got to shoot 50 rounds this weekend through my Snyder built 338. It is a Remington Long Action in an AICS and has a 28" Brux barrel and a Badger FTE on the front end. Recoil was there, of course, but was very manageable. Could easily shoot this gun all day. Was able to see hits on the steel at 600 with no problems.
All my loads at 90.5 to 92.5 (in half grain increments)of Ramshot Magnum should have been one ragged hole but for the guy doing the shooting... they really all looked about the same which makes load development kinda funny. (no picture at the moment, but I'll try to get one).
Velocities were as follows for just 5 shot average:
90.5 = 2776
91 = 2778 (one round at 2757 drug down the avg)
91.5 = 2786
92 = 2787 (one round at 2759)
92.5 = 2824
warning, if you use these loads in your rifle without working up, it may kill you and everyone you know and destroy life on the planet as we know it (how was that for a qualifier?)
I tried to shoot a group on my piece of LV Shooter steel at 600 yards, but round number two (which hit one inch from round number one) caused the wooden post that was holding the steel to break in half ... this aint a 308.
The only group at 600 is the below pic (just the 5 hits to the left of the tape), which I thought was pretty decent for our first day together. This was the 92 grain load. I was holding off the top left corner of the target as it was getting a tad breezy, and my elevation was a WAG...with a more defined aiming point (and the shooter not flinching) I think it will do much better.
Anyway, very promising initial trip, and lots of fun for my first big gun. I watched my buddy shoot a few rounds, and the trace is just hysterical...looks like a boat moving through water.
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casscad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the water capacity of the case(338 Norma). </div></div>
106gr of water according to quick load
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casscad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the water capacity of the case(338 Norma). </div></div>
106gr of water according to quick load
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
I just weighed a once fired and it was right at 107.9 grains of water
Edited because I really screwed it up the first time.
I just weighed a once fired and it was right at 107.9 grains of water
Edited because I really screwed it up the first time.
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
300 grain SMK, seated to 3.600 gives a volume right at 95.5 grains of water.
300 grain SMK, seated to 3.600 gives a volume right at 95.5 grains of water.
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C.K</div><div class="ubbcode-body">brass has been out there scene the end of summer. </div></div>
Sure thing...Where? I'm not talking a "package deal" with a build.
Nobody has any to sell that I can find. BHSS is expecting a shipment...I'm asking if anyone got there order from BHSS yet.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C.K</div><div class="ubbcode-body">brass has been out there scene the end of summer. </div></div>
Sure thing...Where? I'm not talking a "package deal" with a build.
Nobody has any to sell that I can find. BHSS is expecting a shipment...I'm asking if anyone got there order from BHSS yet.
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
I wish Norma would make off the shelf brass for the .338 EDGE, going way past 2800 fps with a 300 grainer is no problem with this inexpensive cartridge.
They could call it whatever they like, I dont give a shit, just give me the brass..................
I wish Norma would make off the shelf brass for the .338 EDGE, going way past 2800 fps with a 300 grainer is no problem with this inexpensive cartridge.
They could call it whatever they like, I dont give a shit, just give me the brass..................
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
News from SHOT says brass should be at BHSS in 2-3 weeks.
News from SHOT says brass should be at BHSS in 2-3 weeks.
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 260 shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">News from SHOT says brass should be at BHSS in 2-3 weeks. </div></div>
Thanks!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 260 shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">News from SHOT says brass should be at BHSS in 2-3 weeks. </div></div>
Thanks!
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
There is some more info at accurateshooter.com
Forster should have dies avalible as well.
There is some more info at accurateshooter.com
Forster should have dies avalible as well.
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
How do you think this case would go necked down to 7mm?
How do you think this case would go necked down to 7mm?
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Topshot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How do you think this case would go necked down to 7mm? </div></div>
I am told it has been done --- goes very damn fast....both the bullet and the barrel
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Topshot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How do you think this case would go necked down to 7mm? </div></div>
I am told it has been done --- goes very damn fast....both the bullet and the barrel
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 260 shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">News from SHOT says brass should be at BHSS in 2-3 weeks. </div></div>
Does anyone know what the pricing is like on the brass?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 260 shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">News from SHOT says brass should be at BHSS in 2-3 weeks. </div></div>
Does anyone know what the pricing is like on the brass?
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
Closer to the 300 ultra.The 300 Weatherby holds about 4 more grains of powder than a 300 Winmag,whereas the 300 Norma holds a few less grains than a 338 Lapua.
Closer to the 300 ultra.The 300 Weatherby holds about 4 more grains of powder than a 300 Winmag,whereas the 300 Norma holds a few less grains than a 338 Lapua.
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
All,
I went out to the range today to test out some US 869 in .338 Norma. Set up a step charge test, starting with 90 grains to ensure safety. Then did half grain increments, working backwards from a theoretical max case fill of 101.3 grains. So, lowest charge weight was around 96.3 grains. First, I shot it at 200 yards. Saw nothing of interest. Drove back to 400 yards and shot it again. I'm not saying a word, and not giving any theories. I just thought the results were rather intesting. I've got no pressure numbers, but can tell you there were no primer issues, and except at max charge weight, all the necks were smoked...
All,
I went out to the range today to test out some US 869 in .338 Norma. Set up a step charge test, starting with 90 grains to ensure safety. Then did half grain increments, working backwards from a theoretical max case fill of 101.3 grains. So, lowest charge weight was around 96.3 grains. First, I shot it at 200 yards. Saw nothing of interest. Drove back to 400 yards and shot it again. I'm not saying a word, and not giving any theories. I just thought the results were rather intesting. I've got no pressure numbers, but can tell you there were no primer issues, and except at max charge weight, all the necks were smoked...
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
What a nice shooting rig!
I guess you have a couple nodes to choose from!
Thanks for the report.
Steve
What a nice shooting rig!
I guess you have a couple nodes to choose from!
Thanks for the report.
Steve
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
I paid about $1.68/ea in Oct. My dealer didn't mark it up a whole lot.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HiCapMag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Does anyone know what the pricing is like on the brass? </div></div>
I paid about $1.68/ea in Oct. My dealer didn't mark it up a whole lot.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HiCapMag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Does anyone know what the pricing is like on the brass? </div></div>
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
I checked the measurement of the tight group this morning. Center to center measures right at 3/4 inch.
I checked the measurement of the tight group this morning. Center to center measures right at 3/4 inch.
Re: 338 Norma Magnum
Interesting, but I need a guide.
Why do you suppose the higher charges would march up the paper then start marching back down the paper, then the last two shots go way high (comparatively).
Any idea on velocity?
Even if all the loads would have been the same, it would have been a good group LOL.
Interesting, but I need a guide.
Why do you suppose the higher charges would march up the paper then start marching back down the paper, then the last two shots go way high (comparatively).
Any idea on velocity?
Even if all the loads would have been the same, it would have been a good group LOL.
