Dammit!
You are absolutely correct. I've got a button to fix this.......
But later.....I'm not bored yet. He's dumb as a bag of hammers, but he has a little talent.
- Thread starter frank320
- Start date
Dammit!
You are absolutely correct. I've got a button to fix this.......
But later.....I'm not bored yet. He's dumb as a bag of hammers, but he has a little talent.
Not really... it could have been ok but honestly it's still sad.
Another baseless comment with nothing to add...and you don't even own a 50. Nice. Over half the posts in this thread have no basis to the issue at hand, yet here we are, jumping on the bandwagon to nowhere. Talk about a clown act...
I don't own a tractor.
But I have operated one for many hundreds of hours.
Are you really this stupid?
I’ve said it once, and I’ll say it again; this is all I see when I look at that gun. A pipe with a pipe cap on the end. All it needs is a fuse sticking out the back.
Having an 18 month wait (per his site) doesn’t mean much when you are offering something well below market value and you only make a few hundred a year. Also the only thing special about them is that they are the cheapest .50 BMG you can buy, that’s it. They are the Hi-Point of the .50 BMG world yet you laugh at Hi-Points and miss the irony.
Well if we see here Orkan loaded up a DTA SRS in 338 Lapua with pistol powder, jammed the bullet into the lands generating well in excess of 120k psi based on some rough QuickLoad numbers and other than some galled bolt lugs the rifle was fine.
Ted at American Rifle company tested his action by shooting a factory 300 WSM round in a barrel with a cleaning rod placed in it, the action was functionally damaged but intact so the shooter wouldn’t even be injured if they had safety glasses as the majority of the gas and debris was safely diverted away from the shooter. Even with the massive pressure generated by a completely obstructed bore the bolt would not fly back into the shooter.
After watching Serbu’s videos by the looks of it the case failed and the action had nowhere to vent the extra gas so the force was transferred to the cap which has approximately 3 to 4 times the surface area of the case head depending upon the diameter of the cap. Since the forces generated by the pressure are relative to the area it is acting on, by increasing the area from just the case head to the full cap you drastically increase the force on the cap to the point it exceeded the threads ability to contain it.
Look at the cap in his video, if the round itself was so high pressured that it alone generated enough force to break the cap then there should be some brass smeared onto the cap from the force of the case head being smashed into it at a supposed 160k psi. As you can see below there is not.
His video saying you can’t have a case head separation without excessive headspace or the action failing and moving backwards is bullshit. If the brass is weak in the web it’s going to split and the gas is going to find the path of least resistance.
Had the design incorporated some way of diverting the gas flow the rifle might have been saved from catastrophic, life threatening failure.
I'm just spit balling here, never heard the final cause of failure... My guess is the cap wasn't fully tightened And when the hot gas is combined with pressure flow over the threads it caused a plasticization (sp?) at the threads causing sheering..
It’s designed so it can’t close if front of the ears (the ones that got lodged in scotts throat) if the cap isn’t completely threaded on
The final cause: It’s a pile of shit and acted accordingly
This rifle was designed with the cap to close in front of both ears which were part of the lower assembly. If the cap is not screwed on tight enough, the ears will prevent it from fully locking into place.
I can't imagine the amount of pressure needed...not only to shear all of the threads off completely, but also remove both of the ears which were integral to keeping the cap in place...one can only imagine the detonation and speed at which it occurred for this to happen.
I suspect a smaller detonation might not have sheared off both ears, but instead might have deflected it upward, since there was no restriction to movement above the ears.
You mean shear off 3 threads, because that’s all the engagement there is.
There have been a couple good posts in the last 24 hours telling you why this piece of shit failed that you have chose to ignore
As ive mentioned before....but I'll mention again for the autistic "members" in this thread.....making this design safer is actually really simple.
1) design a lower that fully encapsulates the screw cap
2) make the front take down pin a shear pin
In the event of a failure, it will "blow forward" instead of launching debris straight back at the shooter.
Literally Design 101
1) design a lower that fully encapsulates the screw cap
2) make the front take down pin a shear pin
In the event of a failure, it will "blow forward" instead of launching debris straight back at the shooter.
Literally Design 101
Thanks!
I love Ted. He def seems to walk to the beat of his own drum a bit, but in that vid is an example of how a real engineer would address safety in a device like an action.
I have his rings but not one of his actions. But I wouldn’t hesitate to use any of his products.
Serbu……nah.
Hi,
GEEZUS Christ this thread is still going, lolol!!!
All this talk from Serbu themselves of subsequently this, subsequently that, looking into this, assuming that, etc etc.....
That is NOT how engineering works.
Here are the bottom line FACTS; like it or not....
1. Within 5 minutes of Serbu finding out about the catastrophic failure he should have been able to show his independent and insurance company approved Dynamic FAE and Motion analysis that shows EXACTLY what those pressures would have had to be in order to replicate the catastrophic failure. As this should/would have been done, certified and signed off on BEFORE the public release of the very first rifle.
2. Within 5 minutes of Serbu finding out about the catastrophic failure he should have been able to show his alloy certifications...He still hasn't shown them and how long has the event been?
3. Within 5 minutes of Serbu finding out about the catastrophic failure he should have been able to show his heat treatment certifications...He still hasn't shown them and how long has the event been?
4. Within 5 minutes of Serbu finding out about the catastrophic failure he should have been able to show the National welding certification for everyone in his shop that touches the welding machine (And just in case anyone is wondering why that....soon as that welding arc touches any metal the alloy composition changes)...He still hasn't shown them and how long has the event been?
5. The FACT Serbu still cannot show the Dynamic FAE and Motion analysis highlights just how far behind this catastrophic failure events' power curve he really is. That is evident in his numerous post event videos where he attempts to point the finger at everything but his design.
Now we have his shill actually blaming it on the Youtube video creators looking for bigger "wow" factors, lololol.......
So since the Serbu crowd likes to keep guessing....type your guesses to the following:
Guess what pressure needs to be for this event IF the alloy was improperly heat treated.....
Guess what pressure needs to be for this event IF the alloy composition was "shortcutted"....
Guess what pressure needs to be for this event IF Serbu internal quality processes did not monitor the heat from the stoned welding guy....
*Hint....it would not need "over pressured" ammunition to cause the event as it occurred.
Edited To Add: In response to the backlog he has, lolol.....
Well... he is selling the YEETS (YO, Evacuate Everyone To Safety) cannon of the rifle world...
Sincerely,
Theis
GEEZUS Christ this thread is still going, lolol!!!
All this talk from Serbu themselves of subsequently this, subsequently that, looking into this, assuming that, etc etc.....
That is NOT how engineering works.
Here are the bottom line FACTS; like it or not....
1. Within 5 minutes of Serbu finding out about the catastrophic failure he should have been able to show his independent and insurance company approved Dynamic FAE and Motion analysis that shows EXACTLY what those pressures would have had to be in order to replicate the catastrophic failure. As this should/would have been done, certified and signed off on BEFORE the public release of the very first rifle.
2. Within 5 minutes of Serbu finding out about the catastrophic failure he should have been able to show his alloy certifications...He still hasn't shown them and how long has the event been?
3. Within 5 minutes of Serbu finding out about the catastrophic failure he should have been able to show his heat treatment certifications...He still hasn't shown them and how long has the event been?
4. Within 5 minutes of Serbu finding out about the catastrophic failure he should have been able to show the National welding certification for everyone in his shop that touches the welding machine (And just in case anyone is wondering why that....soon as that welding arc touches any metal the alloy composition changes)...He still hasn't shown them and how long has the event been?
5. The FACT Serbu still cannot show the Dynamic FAE and Motion analysis highlights just how far behind this catastrophic failure events' power curve he really is. That is evident in his numerous post event videos where he attempts to point the finger at everything but his design.
Now we have his shill actually blaming it on the Youtube video creators looking for bigger "wow" factors, lololol.......
So since the Serbu crowd likes to keep guessing....type your guesses to the following:
Guess what pressure needs to be for this event IF the alloy was improperly heat treated.....
Guess what pressure needs to be for this event IF the alloy composition was "shortcutted"....
Guess what pressure needs to be for this event IF Serbu internal quality processes did not monitor the heat from the stoned welding guy....
*Hint....it would not need "over pressured" ammunition to cause the event as it occurred.
Edited To Add: In response to the backlog he has, lolol.....
Well... he is selling the YEETS (YO, Evacuate Everyone To Safety) cannon of the rifle world...
Sincerely,
Theis
Last edited:
4 threads...some have suggested 3...but the video shows four threads were sheared off.
Regardless the state of the cap doesn’t reflect how he says the event happened. Based on the outcome any case head separation in that rifle results in the firearm becoming a pressure vessel and the failure point is aimed directly back at the shooter.
Maybe this was designed with Darwin's theory in mind and we should stop talking about it...you know, let nature takes its course.
If you don’t understand why 3-4 threads hand tight is different that full thread engagement and torqued to spec than I don’t know what to tell you. 3-4 threads hand tight does not hold 160ksi.
If you do not understand why that serbu rifle is a giant pile of shit and Mark serbu and his shop are absolute hacks After reading the replies here you are beyond help. Why don’t you buy one, load up a couple ladder tests up to 80ksi and see how well it fairs. Just make sure you cancel all your insurance policies before hand so no one else is stuck with the bill for being stupid besides yourself.
I own two of his rifles...both 50A versions.
Some engineers would disagree with your assessment of a four thread hold...which is considerably different than a three thread hold. There are a few YT videos which explain the concept very well in layman terms. Might suggest you pop over and watch them.
I have read the entire thread...amazing what passes for fact over speculation...seems some here don't like to differentiate between the two.
There is always an improvement that can be made to a rifle. Even some of the most expensive, well designed rifles, have limitations to how well they will fail under a faulty load.
Hopefully, we have all learned the importance of treating any gun with the operational care they command and not do stupid things with them, even after there are signs of something going wrong.
If I triggered any of you with my opening comment, my apologies. That was not really my intent...but it served its purpose.
Not everything is at it seems, even when you try to brow beat everyone into seeing it your way. There are enough open ended questions regarding this failure we should all be learning from...and I am sure Mark Serbu is and has been, ever since he learned of this failure to one of his rifles. Its unfortunate, regardless of what he says or does, it will never be good enough for some of you. To that I add...I hope none of you are ever in a position to have to defend yourselves from an overzealous group of gun owners who just don't like you.
Peace Brothers...
Funny...
I happen to be in FL when the space shuttle blew up...watched it from my office while working in Orlando.
If my rifles went to the same school Fauci went to, then you guys are the equivalent of a soi boy march with bull horns and your pink pussy hats.
...if a cat walks into a bank, then my oak table cant write congress, you know, the thing...
Take another hit...
oh im sorry, based on your previous reply, i thought we were talking in retard....
Based on all of your previous replies you have an axe to grind...sorry to hear that. From your first post to your last...nothing but derogatory, subjective, speculation. Others have presented good information like Theis(sp). At least his info is something one can take in and digest. Yours, not so much...leaves one with a feeling of constipation. Retard suits you fine too....based on how you react to comments which don't necessarily fit your narrative.
so is Theis posting "good info"....or is he an "armchair engineer"?.....
sorry i havent written in "engineer speak" for you and have spoken plainly.....1) im not getting paid 2) you wouldnt underand any of it anyways....so why bother?
youve already made up your mind that a $1000 .50 bmg made by a retard is a good idea....and nothing anyone posts in here is going to convince you.
regarding my "axe to grind".....yeah, i generally dont look to favorably on people who release dangerous items to the market....especially when they shirk all responsibility when it goes tits up....
but by all means, enjoy your rifle, so long as it cheap right?
What if it was 5 threads????
What if thread spec doesn't matter, metallurgy doesn't matter, torque doesn't matter,
It all matters.
What if thread spec doesn't matter, metallurgy doesn't matter, torque doesn't matter,
It all matters.
Whatever you say boss. You guys know everything...should have figured that out several posts ago...what was I thinking???
At a minimum his posts have some merit to them. Yours...not so much.
Now you're asking the right questions. The problem is that Serbu HAD NO IDEA what the answer to this question until AFTER it exploded and he hired a company to test it...
Vent ports are a thing, materials selection, etc. All kinds of different methods that you can use to direct failure. If none of them work properly, usually the course of action is to go back to the drawing board and find a new solution, not release it anyway.
Appreciate the response and not the petulance exhibited from others for the most part.
I will say the amount of pressure required to cause a failure seemed low to me from his original comments he made. And you are correct...once he had the other party do a pressure analysis on what the threads and cap could sustain, the numbers seemed more in line with what you would expect from a large caliber rifle. As others had mentioned, smaller caliber rifles experienced the kinds of pressure mark initially suggested were in play.
I have always appreciated the contributions NASCAR has made to cars in general. I think there are always things to be learned and better understood when you have an open mind in how you look at things. I am not a car designer, but I do appreciate the safety and understand the concept behind crunch zones...something that was learned through nasty accidents in race cars. Amazing how one car survive a head one collision at over 150mph...and technology/engineering is behind it.
You don't need 100 posts anymore. If you're a poor we could start a go fund me for you to raise the $20
I would prefer to earn my 100 posts than take your money.
It's still $20 even with the 100
Anyone want to set up a "Next Blow-up" Dead pool?
Seems like we have plenty of potential 'winners.' So why not make some coin off it?
$20 gets you in.... pick a date? Closest date gets the pot. If none blow up in the next 2 years... we donate the $$ to the Scout Sniper Association. Everyone wins!
Cheers,
Sirhr
PS... imagine the lawyers delight at the concept of a bunch of LR shooters having a dead pool? They would all be making down payments on bigger BMW's... Ah ha haha aha....
Seems like we have plenty of potential 'winners.' So why not make some coin off it?
$20 gets you in.... pick a date? Closest date gets the pot. If none blow up in the next 2 years... we donate the $$ to the Scout Sniper Association. Everyone wins!
Cheers,
Sirhr
PS... imagine the lawyers delight at the concept of a bunch of LR shooters having a dead pool? They would all be making down payments on bigger BMW's... Ah ha haha aha....
Keep it. Apply it towards your MDprs match ammo.
This is an excellent idea.
Does there have to be a fatality to win the dead pool?
I'd prefer that noone die, but as Serbu still has these rifles out there.... well...its inevitable I suppose.
I wonder how many folks are still shooting hell out of those Serbus with wild abandon?
Noone needs to die... except the rifle. Better off if rifle dies without injuries to bystanders or trigger puller.
Sirhr
Let's be honest...no one is "shooting the hell" out of these things....
If you cannot afford an actual .50, you can't afford the $5-10/round to feed it.
Ide hazard a guess 90% of the people who bought one of these have shot it less than 10 times before they realized they can't afford it.....and now they just sit in the back of the safe.
No one is putting hundreds of rounds through these things....which is probably a good thing.
Some more than others, but the overall knowledge base here is fairly inspiringin reality... that's not even the point though. Your defending without facts or information.
Ohhhhhhh, are you Judd Cargile's brother that was a sister?
At this point that was not even out of line... since you don't want a discussion just a following.
It could be argued then, and you are making my point I had in back of my mind, that this cat ass trophy was made possible by someone who actually shot the hell out of it.
Yeah, the ammo was the problem. The literal volume of ammo fired. Nothing more.
It reached the fatigue point, and failed. Period.
Prove me wrong.
Saying the ammo was the problem is pure theory.
Again, prove me wrong.
Not directed at you Mcameron
"Itll hold together for at least 500 rounds, after that who knows."
Would you buy it then?
Yet there was NEVER any serious testing done on this fucking 50cal zip gun tuna can.
I've made safer home made cannons from soup cans and no hub bands.
Would you buy it then?
Yet there was NEVER any serious testing done on this fucking 50cal zip gun tuna can.
I've made safer home made cannons from soup cans and no hub bands.
You're still implying Serbu's rifle is innovation or applying new technology... It's not. It's an attempt to build a cheap as possible 50 BMG by cutting as many corners as he can get away with. The "action" is a glorified pipe shotgun with a safety. There was little to no engineering or testing done for this rifle as evidenced by the fact that Mark had no idea what the rifle could withstand until one blew up. The firearms industry as a whole has moved far beyond this type of junk. I'm not even trying to rag on Mark as a person or even diminish design capabilities he may have, just pointing out that this rifle was a mistake on pretty much every level.
If you want to be real honest, many are shooting the heck out of these rifles. Rounds for this rifle don't cost anywhere near 5-10 bucks to feed them...another gross exaggeration...unless you are shooting match ammo...and even then its not 10 bucks a round.
I know many who still shoot their 50's from the two buys we did. And none of them have had an issue...imagine that.
Maybe I should offer up an ammo group buy for those of you who are paying more than 3 bucks a round.
Gotta love the fact many more will be putting rounds through these rifles. The design might not be to your liking, but many others have decided it is to theirs. Price points and design...hits on both.
…Ford also sold over 2,000,000 pinto’s..
Volume means nothing
Volume means nothing
Similar threads
