So did you work up to that 42.5grn weight? That's a pretty stiff weight for that brass. How did the lower weights work?
How long is your barrel and what twist? How far off the lands are you?
- Thread starter Sportin Wood
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So did you work up to that 42.5grn weight? That's a pretty stiff weight for that brass. How did the lower weights work?
How long is your barrel and what twist? How far off the lands are you?
You might also try different seating depths. That would be my suggestion. Do you know your distance from bullet ogive to the rifling (lands)? With the modern longer bullets they often like 30 thousandths gap or more. So you might try adjusting your coal to shorter or longer by .005 or .010. Hard to make a recommendation without the details. I most often run .025 to .055 depending on powder, bullet and caliber.
I don’t know that measurement but I’ll take a look at it. Thanks.
I agree with you..I’m going to cut back on powder charge. I was so focused on trying to max the speed of this sound, I didn’t realize it was going to hurt my ES/SD that much. I figured the 6.5 is so efficient, I could almost max out the powder load and my ES/SD would not change much -I WAS WRONG.
Thanks for all the suggestions guys, I appreciate it.
There are a ton of videos on you tube and articles online about distance to lands.
The older style bullets would often need to be very close to the lands, or rifling, to achieve best accuracy, but the more modern bullets and approach finds that often you should be more than .020 from the rifling out to like .060.
Tons of stuff here, and online by googling “distance to lands reloading”
Guess I have to write rambling long paragraphs to get a answers to try and help you so I am done @Ray78.
Good luck.
Good luck.
No, I started at 40.5 grains and worked my way to 42.5. 26inch at 1/8 twist.
Last winter I was using some left over Prime brass just to break in my newest 6.5CM build, but I was not happy with the SD numbers. This was with 140 ELDMs and 41.7 gr of H4350, .035” jump for 2,750 fps. SDs was in the teens. Switched to Peterson SRP brass and immediately the SDs dropped like a rock. Last time I chrono’d my SDs with the Peterson brass load was 2.7 fps from a 10-shot string.
I have only ever used Hornady brass and my load I worked up for the 153 ATips with 40.6grns of H4350 at 2680fps has a SD of 4.6 over 30 rounds when I shot them to zero and check some data before my last match. Only took 40 rounds of testing to get that load solidified. Never had problems getting low SDs with Hornady brass either. Been using it since early 2008 when i started loading for the Creedmoor for matches.
The “not so secret” secret is quality materials and quality techniques, as you demonstrate.
There is a very successful shooter who stated: reloading is easy, just don’t make it complicated. That’s not a direct quote. But it does make the point.
I tried some Winchester small rifle primers with 145 barnes match burners and 41.2 grains H4350 and Lapua brass. Pierced primer pockets and primer debris clogged up the firing pin channel after 4 shots. I'm hoping if I seat the bullets a little deeper I can get the remaining 46 shot without having to pull bullets. What a pain. Whats with these primers? Anyone have similar experience?
Dang!!! Awesome SD’s
from what Ive seen winchester primers seem to have a softer copper head and deform much easier than the cci Ive been using that have the silver "i assume nickle alloy) head. I was trying to load up a few aguila bass just to check them after swedging the primer crimps out. The winchester primers would deform some if I did not get the swedge perfect. the cci would not. I had to decap 3-4 few live ones carefuly and then re-do the swegde to get the primers to seat correctly. Some of them I just tosssed the brass. (lesson learned)
those are some good numbers, I have two boxes of 153's to do something with. I hear that RL26 works well with these bullets too.
Never messed with the Reloader powders for the Creedmoor. Have always used H4350 as it has just worked. The slower powder might work with the heavier bullet. I have a 28" barrel also but you should be able to get that with a 26" barrel also.
Some times fine tuning can be as simple as changing powder . Once you've laid the evaluation ground work of course .
The world functions on Pressure & Leverage .
The world functions on Pressure & Leverage .
I have mine settled in at N555 and N540. I just wish I could get a steady supply of Bergers. I will use Hornady ELD and BTHP otherwise and they do a body good LOL
Good morning,
Still new to reloading, and need to know if this an issue I can fix or is this normal. The cases are once fired Lapua 6.5 creedmoor 140gr hybrids 41.5 grain h4350.... 60 cases have the same "nick" in the case mouth after a day at the range.... is this fixable? Normal? any help would be great. Rifle is an AI AT 24" 1:8 barrel suppressed....
Still new to reloading, and need to know if this an issue I can fix or is this normal. The cases are once fired Lapua 6.5 creedmoor 140gr hybrids 41.5 grain h4350.... 60 cases have the same "nick" in the case mouth after a day at the range.... is this fixable? Normal? any help would be great. Rifle is an AI AT 24" 1:8 barrel suppressed....
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Look in the ejection port on your action to see if that is were the case is making contact and causing the knicks.
Wilco...
I'd also do a close eyeball of your chamber especially the locking lugs back side . It's not uncommon to find a bur or having the case nick it's self off the lugs upon extraction . Try removing 0.015" off a case then re load it and see if that's the cause or perhaps adjust gas if you have an adjustable gas block .
Had that issue on one of MY .308's and changed powders and it went away .
Had that issue on one of MY .308's and changed powders and it went away .
My question is pretty simple: does this happen only with your reloads or does it also happen with factory rounds?
Greetings to the whole community from Italy.
I have a question to ask you.
I recently mounted a 6.5CR barrel on my AXMC and started reloading.
Following the advice read on PrecisionRifleBlog, I placed the Hornady ELDM 147 bullets at 0.060" from the lands because it seems that this is a measurement that is not very sensitive to freebore variation and is still precise.
Yes, maybe, but not on my rifle. I have disappointing 0.6MOA groups at 150m.
This is why I wanted to ask you more experts for advice on the matter.
You guys with the same balls, how much do you get from the land?
And at what speed do you send it them? Thanks to anyone who wants to respond.
I have a question to ask you.
I recently mounted a 6.5CR barrel on my AXMC and started reloading.
Following the advice read on PrecisionRifleBlog, I placed the Hornady ELDM 147 bullets at 0.060" from the lands because it seems that this is a measurement that is not very sensitive to freebore variation and is still precise.
Yes, maybe, but not on my rifle. I have disappointing 0.6MOA groups at 150m.
This is why I wanted to ask you more experts for advice on the matter.
You guys with the same balls, how much do you get from the land?
And at what speed do you send it them? Thanks to anyone who wants to respond.
First off I wouldn't be that disappointed with .6moa at 150 m? Improvement from there could be a lot of things besides the load.
That said the best comparison I have is 147 eldm loaded for my Steyr 6.5C with a 25" 8 twist barrel. It has the factory CHF barrel that uses the CIP chamber. Since your from Italy I'll assume your also using a CIP chamber?
I worked up to and settled at 42.0gr H4350. Hard to decern the difference between .015 & .053 jump. I chose to stick with .053-.057 jump.
Look at the top row of first target and top left of second target. The primers appeared to have more impact than the jump. Load details are written on the target. Link below should take you directly to the range report.
Speed range for mine was 2750-2780.
Coincidentally it looks like I was responding to a Mark3213 (shooting an AI) just above the post linked below. Are you the same guy?
6.5 Creedmoor
Don't be too hard on me...but got time today to shoot my very first handloads and first rounds through this rifle. MPA PMR Pro 2 chambered in 6.5CM 26" barrel. First thing I know I should have tracked is I had to pull some bullets and used the cases again without marking them. I know the neck...
www.snipershide.com Thanks for your answer.
It's a coincidence that I asked similar questions, I'm not the same person.
Coming to us.... unfortunately in Italy we do not have the availability in choosing the powders that you have in the USA.
Staying in the monobasics, I use Vhitavuori N160 or N165 with which I manage to push the 147 ELDM ball at 815m/s (2674FPS). Maybe I could go even further if I wanted, but I want a precise rather than powerful charge. At this speed I have very good SD and ES (+/-3ms). Even at 790m/s I got very good spreds and similar dispersions, but it's really too slow.
I'm satisfied if I make 1/3 MOA groups at 150m and I believe the rifle can do it, but I don't want to waste time (and erode the barrel) finding the right distance from the lands. I wanted advice on a measurement from which to start the reloading study since 0.060" didn't satisfy me
It's a coincidence that I asked similar questions, I'm not the same person.
Coming to us.... unfortunately in Italy we do not have the availability in choosing the powders that you have in the USA.
Staying in the monobasics, I use Vhitavuori N160 or N165 with which I manage to push the 147 ELDM ball at 815m/s (2674FPS). Maybe I could go even further if I wanted, but I want a precise rather than powerful charge. At this speed I have very good SD and ES (+/-3ms). Even at 790m/s I got very good spreds and similar dispersions, but it's really too slow.
I'm satisfied if I make 1/3 MOA groups at 150m and I believe the rifle can do it, but I don't want to waste time (and erode the barrel) finding the right distance from the lands. I wanted advice on a measurement from which to start the reloading study since 0.060" didn't satisfy me
Try a few different primers. Vit N555 should give you more speed without sacrificing accuracy or SD's.
Honestly on my rifles I've seen the muzzle brake make a huge difference as well.
Mark : Cut that distance to 0.030" off the lands ,then fire 3 groups of #5 rounds each and evaluate your grouping . IF it improves then minor powder adjustments are in order . If not then perhaps a different powder and or bullet may be required . Either way YOU will know .
OK, I was planning on doing it at 0.015" but I could do it at 0.030", no problem.
Note: By stretching -0.015" from the lands, I have more space in the case and could load more N165. I'm still 1,5grn away from the maximum Vhita tables....
In my VV app the coal is pretty short, and on my rifle an incredibly huge jump. I did as you and ran my coal significantly longer (jump around .030 as I recall) and increased charge. I also coat my bullets in hBn which actually helps with the increase in charge. Bottom line is you can get a good bump in mv without exceeding max pressure. Just be careful and work your way up slowly watching for ANY pressure signs, then back off.
Btw: I use VV 555. I didn’t follow the same process for IMR 4350. I also start with testing virtual charges using GRT software. But that’s me.
Mark ; If there's no significant muzzle velocity gain or accuracy improvement by cutting your initial throat jump in half , then it's pointless to further cut distance too the lands . IMO anyway. Out of all the rifles I own I'm aware of only #2 which prefer Maximum velocity for accuracy .
Something in way of barrel harmonics and accuracy Nodes has to sink together , in order to get the best possible accuracy out of a particular gun .
I like yourself generally stay 1.2-2.4 gr. under max charges for superb accuracy . Speed kills chamber throats and again rarely does maximum pressure give an even push down a bore . IMO , Cases are designed as such for maximum charges ,regardless of how far one extends or recesses the bullet in the case. Neck tension is a vital part of the accuracy plan ,as a smooth consistent tension is going to be a huge benefit for repeatability .
When I prep cases I do this one time only . Using a small mandrel with 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper silicon carbide type . Using soapy water as a lube I run the mandrel inside the case neck and spin it 8-15 times or until it's near mirror like . I then prep cases by de-priming and place them into My ultrasonic cleaning solution ,I then rinse in de-ionized water fast dry and size with uniform trimming. After I've fired MY cases #3-4 times ,I'll anneal restore ductility too the neck and shoulder then reload them . With exception of spinning in the mandrel ,that's how I prep cases.
Also should add I do chamfer case mouth inside and out and again IF needed after trimming with extended reloadings .
By doing the above I've managed to reload 30-06 and .308 #36 Times so far for MY M1's & M14's using the same brass time after time and haven't lost a single case as yet . Can't honestly say if accuracy is improved ,as their old guns in front of old eyes but case longevity is a definite result that I'm certain of . Iron sights are a poor test platform for determining group accuracy potential .
NO wind forecast tomorrow ,so gonna run 278 yd. and 635 yd. Test loads on paper using 143 gr. ELD's 6.5CM out of MY Aero Precision build .
I'll post results ASAP . Now that I actually have a 1K yd. scope it should be interesting to see what I can produce off of sand bags .
I’m trying to work up a load for my 6.5 creed with the 153gn Hornaday A-Tip and H4350 powder. What kind of jumps were you testing? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks
Not sure as I am not home but will check later. I know I loaded them so they would reliably feed from my aics mags so about 2.860” which I think was about .060” off. I will check later.
First time reloading. Please share some advice on data. I have VV N150 and ELDX 143gr with Hornady brass. I understand that N150 is not perfect but that is what I have. VV reloading data show max load for this setup to be 34.4gr (2500FPS out of 25,5" barrel). I have a Bergara with a 20" barrel.
I downloaded GRT and it says that the same load with the VV data barrel length should work at 38K PSI and give 2380FPS. Also the fill rate (GRT Load radio, correct?) is at 79.9%. Am I missing something or is VV data underrated for this particular load or can I not trust GRT calculator?
I have seen people post their N150 Creedmoor loads with 37gr and even up to 40gr which is a LOT more than VV max.
For comparison GRT gives 37gr of N150 47k PSI 2540FPS and 86% load ratio.
40gr of N150 58k PSI 2700FPS and 93% load ratio.
So GRT seems to support the claims. Thus the question - what am I missing with VV public reload data?
As a secondary subject - I also have VV N560 in small quantity. I can almost fill 95%% of case capacity with max load (43.7gr N560 per VV load data) however burn ratio is somewhen at 85%. Is it bad? Should I am for 95%+ burn ratio? What would be the perfect VV powder in this situation (p.s. I am using ELDX at the moment but I am waiting on Berger 144gr, building for accuracy not hunting). That is 20" barrel and 140gr+ bullets for accuracy and range using Hornady brass.
I downloaded GRT and it says that the same load with the VV data barrel length should work at 38K PSI and give 2380FPS. Also the fill rate (GRT Load radio, correct?) is at 79.9%. Am I missing something or is VV data underrated for this particular load or can I not trust GRT calculator?
I have seen people post their N150 Creedmoor loads with 37gr and even up to 40gr which is a LOT more than VV max.
For comparison GRT gives 37gr of N150 47k PSI 2540FPS and 86% load ratio.
40gr of N150 58k PSI 2700FPS and 93% load ratio.
So GRT seems to support the claims. Thus the question - what am I missing with VV public reload data?
As a secondary subject - I also have VV N560 in small quantity. I can almost fill 95%% of case capacity with max load (43.7gr N560 per VV load data) however burn ratio is somewhen at 85%. Is it bad? Should I am for 95%+ burn ratio? What would be the perfect VV powder in this situation (p.s. I am using ELDX at the moment but I am waiting on Berger 144gr, building for accuracy not hunting). That is 20" barrel and 140gr+ bullets for accuracy and range using Hornady brass.
Having used GRT and the VV app for charge weights, you should notice that the VV COL numbers are pretty small. I am wondering if your GRT COL is matching the VV number or is it matching Hornady length?
I can tell you that you can either use the VV data and it will produce numbers similar to their muzzle velocities as long as you stick to their dimensions and weight charges.
Or you can use GRT and find a charge that gets you up around 2700-2800 fps. Just make sure you load out your charges to work your way up towards the 2800. Your rifle may be different from others even if the exact same model. So play it safe and work your way up. Keep an eye out for excessive pressures.
If you load out longer (COL) you have more room to safely increase your charge, but for someone new it isn’t an obvious choice or choices. Some of us let the magazine determine max overall length of your ammo.
Make absolutely sure about the settings in GRT. Garbage in, garbage out.
PS: N150 is a good choice, but when you can switch to N540 or N555.
Great info. Thanks for the fast reply. I am trying to source N555, but will take time where I live.
I am using COL 2.860 (AICS mag length limitation). That is about 30 thousand off from lands (measured with 300 rounds down the bore).
GRT calculations I used standard length (2.825").
VV load data for the ELDX shows 2.709". Great find and I will take this into consideration. Just to make sure I get this correct. 6.5CM should be all good to about 2700-2800FPS with a 24" barrel, correct? So as long as I work up and take into account that I have a 20" barrel I should not be going over the pressure limits as long as I chrono my results and do not go e.g. over 2700FPS with a 20" barrel, correct? Even if the public load data is somewhat lower?
That’s a safe approach.
I often hesitate to give such recommendations but I was pretty sure you were seeing the VV short COL charges on longer COL than they spec at. Not sure why they do that unless it’s to save powder?
Just keep it safe and watch for pressure signs. Lots of good videos on about that on YouTube, but some are pretty vague. If you experience hard bolt movement to extract it could likely be high pressure. Also learn what the cartridges look like and the difference between normal and high pressure.
Good luck, and the bergara has a great reputation.
